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POLL: Political Rhetoric and the Role of Government

Does the role, scope, cost and size of government exist along a continuum?

  • 1. Yes. Most economies are mixed and the question is where along the continuum they exist.

    Votes: 12 75.0%
  • 2. No. A country is either capitalist or Socialist/Marxist/Communist, etc.

    Votes: 2 12.5%
  • 3. I don't want to answer. I just want to complain about the question.

    Votes: 2 12.5%

  • Total voters
    16

JoeB131

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Dun, der, Cleetus, it's post thankgiving at the trailer park.

Why aren’t poor Americans fleeing to Europe, Japan and Canada?

Well, to start with, those countries don't have particularly open immigration laws. Secondly, most of those countries don't speak English (Except the UK and Canada).

Of course it works for you, because you don’t care what happens to other people’s money. Have you noticed that the ultra wealthy like Bill Gates, Dorsey, Zuckerberg, etc. tend to be far left? They are ok with high taxes because it doesnnt affect their lifestyle. If they want to buy matching submarines, they still can. A person making 400k per year may not be able to afford the nicer home or the beach house they always dreamed of with the taxes the left is proposing. What you will not see is any of these ultra-wealthy liberals giving away or supporting a tax that would actually force them to change their way of life. That won’t happen, nor do I think it should. They support the working “rich” paying more taxes but there is a HUGE difference in lifestyle between someone making 400k/yr and someone making 100’s of millions.
Well, gee, the really rich are far left, but then you'll argue later that only successful people vote for the Goons of Plutocracy (GOP).

The Billionaires need to pay their fair share.
The Millionaires need to pay their fair share
The "Thosandaires" need to pay their fair share.

If you want to own a mansion or a dick rocket, have at it... but you got to pay your fair share.

The surgeon example was just that, an example and again, NOBODY with money leaves the US to go get medical care elsewhere, quite the opposite. You are duped, but that is nothing new.
Actually, you are wrong. Americans who can't afford health care in this country FREQUENTLY go to Mexico, unlike the mythical medical tourism to this country.




No, pretty sure that virtually every sane person on this board that is not a card carrying Socialists would agree that you have a some issues with race that go far beyond the norm.
The same people who will insist after every police shooting the n-word had it coming. What I find is that we have some really openly racist people on this board, such as Snouter, Quasar44 , Tipsycatlover who say openly racist shit, and frankly, I've never seen you reprimand them, once.


I am a pig because I don’t acquiesce to your nonsense?
Well, as long as you get it... it's the first step to getting help.


Ok, that‘s me. Just an uneducated redneck from the South. ;) You are an indoctrinated loser from the Midwest who wants rednecks like me to pick up the tab for your Pollyanna programs.
As already pointed out, the folks in the Blue States are already subsidizing Jesusland, and have been for decades.

Have you still not figured out that wealthier white people, you know, ones that make more than you do, tend to vote for Republicans? Are those the ones that are being fooled or is it more likely that it is the working and non-working poor, who vote overwhelmingly Democratic?
Wait, wait, you just whined that Gates and Zuckerberg were liberals... now you are arguing they aren't?

I'm sure there are some well-off people who vote for both parties.

But the GOP would WHITHER AND DIE if it only relied on people who make more than I do vote for them. There are vastly more people who make less than I do than people who make more. Again, let's go back to the wealth distribution chart.

The only way the GOP survives is to either suppress the votes of poor people of color, or to dupe white poor people into voting against their own economic interest and OH MY GOD THAT MAN IS WEARING A DRESS, LET'S FREAK OUT ABOUT THAT!!!!!


You knew COVID was coming? Here’s a hint genius, that is what brought Trump’s roaring economy down, along with the rest of the world. Funny enough, we haven’t suffered nearly as much as other countries economically speaking due to the relative strength of our economy pre-COVID. You are unsuccessful for a reason so I don’t expect you to understand. You are a good little soldier who follows instructions….right off a cliff if need be.

Uh, guy, we had more people die than any other country. We've had more people lose their jobs.
Trump did not do a good job managing Covid, it's why he's back at his country club.

The economy was a total disaster for people who have to work for a living.

How many times do the Republicans have to fuck up the economy before we stop letting them do it?

I will be 60 years old next year.

In my lifetime, we've seen the following Recessions.
1969 - Nixon
1973-75 - Nixon and Ford
1980 - Carter
1981 - 82 - Reagan
1990 - 91 Bush
2001 - Bush Junior
2008 - Bush Junior
2020 - Trump.

Seems to me, republicans bring us recessions... so why do we keep voting for them?
 

Decus

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So I take it you are against tax deductions, exemptions, and credits? They are probably the biggest wealth distribution and social engineering programs in the government.

I have always been in favor of a flat tax. Going further I believe that people should plan and prepare for their retirement rather than having government "set aside" money on their behalf. I also believe in workfare not welfare.

.
 

g5000

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I have always been in favor of a flat tax. Going further I believe that people should plan and prepare for their retirement rather than having government "set aside" money on their behalf. I also believe in workfare not welfare.

.
A flat tax does not have any inherent qualities to prevent it from having the exact same deductions, exemptions, and credits as the current tax scheme.

In fact, you can be sure every one of those would be put in the flat tax code, therefore requiring the flat tax to be much higher. Classic wealth redistribution like the current system of tax expenditures.
 

DBA

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Well, to start with, those countries don't have particularly open immigration laws. Secondly, most of those countries don't speak English (Except the UK and Canada).

I was hoping you would say that. Any alarm bells going off in that little brain of yours?

Well, gee, the really rich are far left, but then you'll argue later that only successful people vote for the Goons of Plutocracy (GOP).

The Billionaires need to pay their fair share.
The Millionaires need to pay their fair share
The "Thosandaires" need to pay their fair share.

If you want to own a mansion or a dick rocket, have at it... but you got to pay your fair share.

You mentioned a while back that you have a vacation home. With all the talk about the poor people out there and the redistribution stuff, don't you think that is extravagant.? You also live in what you call a wealthier suburb of Chicago. Why do you have such things and why are you willing to give those away to help your cause? Like most Democrats, you are all for the programs until it affects you directly. Zuckerberg is a leftist nut, but that is because he can buy another 5 yachts whenever he pleases. The laws don't affect his lifestyle. A person making 400k/yr may not be able to afford a vacation beach home. Yes, that is extravagant, but it is all relative. Relative to some, your salary and your lifestyle is "rich." In short, you obviously aren't paying your "fair share" if you have such "luxuries."

Actually, you are wrong. Americans who can't afford health care in this country FREQUENTLY go to Mexico, unlike the mythical medical tourism to this country.

uh huh. Some, you perhaps, may go to a mechanic that offers a free heart transplant after 10 oil changes.

As already pointed out, the folks in the Blue States are already subsidizing Jesusland, and have been for decades.

They are subsiding the Democrats in my state. My state is red, but we have plenty of Democrats that suck the system dry.

Wait, wait, you just whined that Gates and Zuckerberg were liberals... now you are arguing they aren't?

They are liberals. They are also ultra-elite, not just "rich." These are the folks that would make up the ruling party if you Democratic lemmings continue to fall for the nonsense the Democratic Party spews.

But the GOP would WHITHER AND DIE if it only relied on people who make more than I do vote for them. There are vastly more people who make less than I do than people who make more. Again, let's go back to the wealth distribution chart.

The more you make, the highly the likelihood you will vote for Republicans. The inverse is also true. It has been that way for years. Your salary is not even the average in my little suburb in the South, though I realize that is not the norm. I can only imagine how you must live on that salary in a high tax, blue state. Glad you are happy with it.

The economy was a total disaster for people who have to work for a living.

Pre-COVID the economy was great for nearly everyone. Democrats shut the country down and killed the economy but to them it was worth it because they saw it as a chance to get Trump out of office. The country be damned. If Trump would have been re-elected, Harris already said she wasn't going to take the vaccine and the you can bet your bottom dollar that lefties would have gone absolutely bananas if Trump was mandating anything, which he would not have done.
 

JoeB131

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I was hoping you would say that. Any alarm bells going off in that little brain of yours?

Nope, I am sure you think something clever is going on, but there really isn't. Those countries have their guest workers and foreign workers as well, they just managed them better, and they really don't want Americans. In Germany, for instance, most of the Guest Workers are Turks or Poles.

Taiwan is kind of in a labor crunch right now because of Covid, they can't import industrial laborers from Vietnam and the Philippines.


You mentioned a while back that you have a vacation home. With all the talk about the poor people out there and the redistribution stuff, don't you think that is extravagant.?
Not at all. I co-own it with five other people. It was built on land my Dad paid $800.00 for in 1949, built the original structure himself, we've been building on it ourselves for years.

The thing is, I couldn't afford anything like that today... because you Republican shits wiped out the middle class. When I was growing up, all our neighbors were working class folks who did what my dad did. Now all those properties are owned by rich douchebags who maybe come up there once a year.. I mean, it's nice because it's quiet...

You also live in what you call a wealthier suburb of Chicago. Why do you have such things and why are you willing to give those away to help your cause?
Because I'm not the problem. The problem is the guy who has FAR more than he needs and still wants to take more. This is what you don't seem to get. Having a nice house in a nice neighborhood if fine. Blowing 5 Billion on flying your dick rocket with Captain Kirk while your workers are getting paid shit wages isn't.

Like most Democrats, you are all for the programs until it affects you directly. Zuckerberg is a leftist nut, but that is because he can buy another 5 yachts whenever he pleases. The laws don't affect his lifestyle. A person making 400k/yr may not be able to afford a vacation beach home. Yes, that is extravagant, but it is all relative. Relative to some, your salary and your lifestyle is "rich." In short, you obviously aren't paying your "fair share" if you have such "luxuries."

Hey, Zuckerburg can buy all the yatchs he wants. - AFTER he pays his fair share and AFTER all the working stiffs are making a living wage.

uh huh. Some, you perhaps, may go to a mechanic that offers a free heart transplant after 10 oil changes.
Wow, you really are desperate to avoid the point, aren't you. Contrary to the LIE that foreigners come here because they can't get health care in their own countries (Simply not true) the reality is, our messed up system often forces Americans to seek health treatments in Mexico.

The best doctors in the world? Maybe, but it doesn't mean all that much if most people don't have access to them.


They are subsiding the Democrats in my state. My state is red, but we have plenty of Democrats that suck the system dry.
Do I have to go into the White Welfare discussion again.

We spend 2.5 Trillion on MIDDLE CLASS ENTITLEMENTS. (Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance, small business payments, veteran's benefits)

We spend only about 600 Billion on poverty relief programs. (Food stamps, Section 8, Medicaid, TANF, WIC, etc.)

the only people 'sucking the system dry" are those white folks getting paid entitlements that aren't really even means tested.


They are liberals. They are also ultra-elite, not just "rich." These are the folks that would make up the ruling party if you Democratic lemmings continue to fall for the nonsense the Democratic Party spews.

So what? Frankly, I'd rather have Zuckerburg run things than the Koch Brothers... Guys who are actively DESTROYING THE PLANET to make themselves richer.

The more you make, the highly the likelihood you will vote for Republicans. The inverse is also true. It has been that way for years. Your salary is not even the average in my little suburb in the South, ....

But since you won't say the n ame of that suburb or even what state it is in, no one really believes you, Cleetus.

Pre-COVID the economy was great for nearly everyone. Democrats shut the country down and killed the economy but to them it was worth it because they saw it as a chance to get Trump out of office. The country be damned. If Trump would have been re-elected, Harris already said she wasn't going to take the vaccine and the you can bet your bottom dollar that lefties would have gone absolutely bananas if Trump was mandating anything, which he would not have done.

I would have been reluctant to take a vaccine hawked by a guy who previously told people to inject bleach, too.

The economy was already going into recession before Covid Hit. The point was, Trump's incompetent reaction to Covid made everything SOOO much worse than it needed to be.

Point is, we got the vaccine, and the people refusing to take it and keeping Covid going are the people down in Jesusland...
 
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Red Storm Rising

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I point that out elsewhere on this thread. Post 45.

So you earlier challenged me to post examples of my opposing the Left/Democrats. I gave you a BIG and CLEAR example.

I notice you didn't respond.

Do you want more, boy?

Here, a message for you from BS Filter:
Go fuck yourself, loser. Commie trash.
 

DBA

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Not at all. I co-own it with five other people. It was built on land my Dad paid $800.00 for in 1949, built the original structure himself, we've been building on it ourselves for years.

The thing is, I couldn't afford anything like that today... because you Republican shits wiped out the middle class. When I was growing up, all our neighbors were working class folks who did what my dad did. Now all those properties are owned by rich douchebags who maybe come up there once a year.. I mean, it's nice because it's quiet...

You have some serious wealth envy.

Because I'm not the problem. The problem is the guy who has FAR more than he needs and still wants to take more. This is what you don't seem to get. Having a nice house in a nice neighborhood if fine. Blowing 5 Billion on flying your dick rocket with Captain Kirk while your workers are getting paid shit wages isn't.

Yes, you are EXACTLY the problem. You want someone else to pay for your guilt ridden plans.

Hey, Zuckerburg can buy all the yatchs he wants. - AFTER he pays his fair share and AFTER all the working stiffs are making a living wage.

But his "fair share" would be enough for him to be having the same vacation home as you, right? You see my little mental midget, raising taxes on Zuckerberg types alone isn't going to raise the kind of money you need to pay for the losers that vote for your party. "Rich" working folks will have to pick up the tab and they will be affected. Zuckerberg and his kind know that they will never pay enough to affect their way of life, so they go along with the nonsense because they want the power. I ma not in favor of warfare on the rich, but it would be quite entertaining to see Zuckerberg and most in the Hollywood crowd change their tune if the government said they were taking everything above 5 million in net worth and distributing it to the "poor".

What is your explanation for the Democrats trying to get the SALT deduction thrown into the monstrosity of a plan by Biden? That helps upper middle to upper class taxpayers in every state. It will help me as I pay more property tax than the current SALT limit. It is a hypocritical move by a party that tricks poor, ignorant folks like yourself into believing that they are trying to help the downtrodden when in fact they do everything they can to keep them under the government boot.

Wow, you really are desperate to avoid the point, aren't you. Contrary to the LIE that foreigners come here because they can't get health care in their own countries (Simply not true) the reality is, our messed up system often forces Americans to seek health treatments in Mexico.

The best doctors in the world? Maybe, but it doesn't mean all that much if most people don't have access to them.

Keep believe that dribble. Let me guess, COVID didn't come from a lab in China either right? You will believe anything you are told.

Do I have to go into the White Welfare discussion again.

We spend 2.5 Trillion on MIDDLE CLASS ENTITLEMENTS. (Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment Insurance, small business payments, veteran's benefits)

We spend only about 600 Billion on poverty relief programs. (Food stamps, Section 8, Medicaid, TANF, WIC, etc.)

the only people 'sucking the system dry" are those white folks getting paid entitlements that aren't really even means tested.

Do I have to keep reminding you of the same thing? EVERYONE who pays in or was in the military and many that don't get these benefits. It is not a race based thing. There are more white people on SS and Medicare because there are more white people in the country.

Per capita, white people do not collect from the poverty relief programs nearly as often as other groups, so you continually acting as if white people are the problem is just disingenuous.

So what? Frankly, I'd rather have Zuckerburg run things than the Koch Brothers... Guys who are actively DESTROYING THE PLANET to make themselves richer.

There are no Koch brothers anymore. One of them passed away. And you buying into this destroying the planet thing is just another laughable example of just how gullible you are. The Chinese aren't as dumb as Democrats. They will allows us to continue chasing our tails with regards to climate change as they will continue to produce even less expensive goods relative to ours. The gullible lemmings like yourself who are no less informed nor wise than your 19 year-old spokesperson(Thernberg) will fall for the climate change nonsense as they push it back our certain destruction every 5-10 years until it is too late to recover economically. The elites that claim to be on your side will be laughing all the way to the bank and to the throne.

But since you won't say the n ame of that suburb or even what state it is in, no one really believes you, Cleetus.

It is not about believing me. Google is your friend. There are numerous areas in red Southern states that have higher average incomes that yours. You just aren't familiar with them because when you come South you evidently vacation in the Democratic neighborhoods that aren't vacation destinations for most.

I would have been reluctant to take a vaccine hawked by a guy who previously told people to inject bleach, too.

The economy was already going into recession before Covid Hit. The point was, Trump's incompetent reaction to Covid made everything SOOO much worse than it needed to be.

Point is, we got the vaccine, and the people refusing to take it and keeping Covid going are the people down in Jesusland...

He didn't tell people to inject bleach you bobblehead. He just made a flippant comment that if bleach kills the virus maybe there is some way to to use that information to treat the virus. He shouldn't have said it for no other reason than braindead folks like yourself and the national media, intent on spinning, would use it against him.

The economy was not going into a recession pre-COVID. You must be reading the opinions of the same morons that are telling you that this inflation is transitory, meaning short term. They make a living on forming the opinions of poor, ignorant folks.

I will stay put in "Jesusland". You stay put in your unethical, immoral, evil cities. I am glad you think you have it made. It keeps you and your kind as far away from us as possible. Spread the word about how backwards we are, it doesn't seem to be working. Tell them to move to the Democratic areas where they can be around their kind and not to the affluent Republican areas to bring us down to their level.
 

JoeB131

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You have some serious wealth envy.

Nope, I just realize that wealth inequality is not good for a nation in the long run. Look up France 1787, Russia 1917 and Iran 1979 if you have any questions.

Yes, you are EXACTLY the problem. You want someone else to pay for your guilt ridden plans.

You mean I think that the people who actually DO the work at Amazon should get good benefits instead of it being pissed away on a Dick Rocket.

But his "fair share" would be enough for him to be having the same vacation home as you, right? You see my little mental midget, raising taxes on Zuckerberg types alone isn't going to raise the kind of money you need to pay for the losers that vote for your party. "Rich" working folks will have to pick up the tab and they will be affected. Zuckerberg and his kind know that they will never pay enough to affect their way of life, so they go along with the nonsense because they want the power. I ma not in favor of warfare on the rich, but it would be quite entertaining to see Zuckerberg and most in the Hollywood crowd change their tune if the government said they were taking everything above 5 million in net worth and distributing it to the "poor".
Actually, we spend very little on poverty releif. Most of the Money government spends goes to Middle Class entitlements and the Military industrial complex.

So a 60% tax on the uber wealthy would be fine. It's what we had before Reagan and it worked well.

What is your explanation for the Democrats trying to get the SALT deduction thrown into the monstrosity of a plan by Biden? That helps upper middle to upper class taxpayers in every state. It will help me as I pay more property tax than the current SALT limit. It is a hypocritical move by a party that tricks poor, ignorant folks like yourself into believing that they are trying to help the downtrodden when in fact they do everything they can to keep them under the government boot.
Well, I'm glad you will be able to file schedule A on your Double Wide, Cleetus, but the reality was, Trump getting rid of the homeowner's exemption actually hurt the housing industry. The main reason why I chose to own instead of rent was that I got a pretty healthy tax deduction. Now, I don't. Most people don't. At my level it washes out because the standard deduction makes up for it, but at the higher levels, it was causing pain for those who build and renovate homes.
Keep believe that dribble. Let me guess, COVID didn't come from a lab in China either right? You will believe anything you are told.
Wow, you think it did, right. It was a vast conspiracy by the Chinese to infect themselves hoping it would go to America and Trump would fuck up the response. Um... that sounds a bit convoluted.

Do I have to keep reminding you of the same thing? EVERYONE who pays in or was in the military and many that don't get these benefits. It is not a race based thing. There are more white people on SS and Medicare because there are more white people in the country.
Nope, you keep missing the point.
So, what is the purpose of Social Security and Medicare? It's to keep elderly people from being completely wiped out when they can no longer work. It's so Nana can keep living in her home instead of moving in with the kids.

The reason why I call it "White People Welfare" is that it's welfare that white people are okay with. Not that they are actually paying for it, if you live to be 72 you get everything you paid into it back.

Per capita, white people do not collect from the poverty relief programs nearly as often as other groups, so you continually acting as if white people are the problem is just disingenuous.
They are the majority of people on these programs... despite the inherent racism of our society.

Ideally, nobody should be on welfare. I would be entirely for replacing welfare with workfare. Everyone works, everyone has a job that pays a living wage. There's more than enough wealth to do it, it's just that when you spend 5 Billion a shot on a dick rocket, that's 100,000 people who could be getting a living wage.


There are no Koch brothers anymore. One of them passed away. And you buying into this destroying the planet thing is just another laughable example of just how gullible you are. The Chinese aren't as dumb as Democrats. They will allows us to continue chasing our tails with regards to climate change as they will continue to produce even less expensive goods relative to ours. The gullible lemmings like yourself who are no less informed nor wise than your 19 year-old spokesperson(Thernberg) will fall for the climate change nonsense as they push it back our certain destruction every 5-10 years until it is too late to recover economically. The elites that claim to be on your side will be laughing all the way to the bank and to the throne.
First, any fool can tell it's getting warmer. I just have to look at what winters are like in Chicago now compared to what they were like when I was a kid in the 1970's.

1638120133252.png



It is not about believing me. Google is your friend. There are numerous areas in red Southern states that have higher average incomes that yours. You just aren't familiar with them because when you come South you evidently vacation in the Democratic neighborhoods that aren't vacation destinations for most.

I wouldn't "vacation" in the South... Too many fucking inbred rednecks. You really do get I despise you people, right.

When I was in the service, I was stationed in a number of Southern States. I also dated a girl from Kentucky, and man, was her family low-rent.

He didn't tell people to inject bleach you bobblehead. He just made a flippant comment that if bleach kills the virus maybe there is some way to to use that information to treat the virus. He shouldn't have said it for no other reason than braindead folks like yourself and the national media, intent on spinning, would use it against him.

Except everything he said about Covid was steeped in ignorance. That's when he didn't treat Drs. Fauci and Brix like they were the enemy for not sharing his rosy view of things.

The economy was not going into a recession pre-COVID. You must be reading the opinions of the same morons that are telling you that this inflation is transitory, meaning short term. They make a living on forming the opinions of poor, ignorant folks.
I go by what I saw with companies I worked with.... They were already cutting staff, they were already slowing down projections. Supply chains were already getting screwed up by Trump's unncessary trade war.

I will stay put in "Jesusland". You stay put in your unethical, immoral, evil cities. I am glad you think you have it made. It keeps you and your kind as far away from us as possible. Spread the word about how backwards we are, it doesn't seem to be working. Tell them to move to the Democratic areas where they can be around their kind and not to the affluent Republican areas to bring us down to their level.

Here's the thing, guy. If you have northerners coming down to your states, it's usually because they can't find anyone to run their factories, because most of you are piss-ignorant. So they have to lure someone from up north to come down there.
 

Decus

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A flat tax does not have any inherent qualities to prevent it from having the exact same deductions, exemptions, and credits as the current tax scheme.

In fact, you can be sure every one of those would be put in the flat tax code, therefore requiring the flat tax to be much higher. Classic wealth redistribution like the current system of tax expenditures.

You are funny. I favor a flat tax without the possibility of deductions and/or deductions.

You seem to know quite a bit about "the flat tax code" (your words). When did we have a flat tax and what did the flat tax code say about personal income???

How about we reduce spending instead of "therefore requiring the flat tax to be much higher" (your words)???
.
 

g5000

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You are funny. I favor a flat tax without the possibility of deductions and/or deductions.

You seem to know quite a bit about "the flat tax code" (your words). When did we have a flat tax and what did the flat tax code say about personal income???

How about we reduce spending instead of "therefore requiring the flat tax to be much higher" (your words)???
.
Like I said, a flat tax has no miracle qualities which prevent tax expenditures from being added to it.

No tax system does. And every politician takes advantage of this fact to acquire massive campaign donations to put them in the tax code.

And the more they put in, the higher the flat tax rate would have to be until we are right back where we started

The priority should be the elimination/abolishment of tax expenditures. There is no point in bribing someone who does not have the power to put a loophole in the tax code.

So in addition to enabling us to lower tax rates for everyone, it would have the serendipitous effect of campaign finance reform.

I actually prefer the Fair Tax over a flat tax. But even that would be vulnerable to exemptions which would cause the tax rate to go up.

Banning tax expenditures needs to be first.
 

Decus

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Like I said, a flat tax has no miracle qualities which prevent tax expenditures from being added to it.

No tax system does. And every politician takes advantage of this fact to acquire massive campaign donations to put them in the tax code.

And the more they put in, the higher the flat tax rate would have to be until we are right back where we started

The priority should be the elimination/abolishment of tax expenditures. There is no point in bribing someone who does not have the power to put a loophole in the tax code.

So in addition to enabling us to lower tax rates for everyone, it would have the serendipitous effect of campaign finance reform.

I actually prefer the Fair Tax over a flat tax. But even that would be vulnerable to exemptions which would cause the tax rate to go up.

Banning tax expenditures needs to be first.

You are free to speculate on how a flat tax would be treated by politicians but that is all that you are offering as a counter argument - speculation.

Irrespective of the tax system spending needs to be sharply curtailed and entitlements should be the first thing to go at the federal level. Spending should be decided at the state level given that states have no power to print money, forcing most states to live within their means.

.
 

DBA

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You mean I think that the people who actually DO the work at Amazon should get good benefits instead of it being pissed away on a Dick Rocket.

They get what they are worth. Most wouldn’t have a job if it wasn’t for companies like Amazon. You have it backwards, as usual.

Well, I'm glad you will be able to file schedule A on your Double Wide, Cleetus, but the reality was, Trump getting rid of the homeowner's exemption actually hurt the housing industry. The main reason why I chose to own instead of rent was that I got a pretty healthy tax deduction. Now, I don't. Most people don't. At my level it washes out because the standard deduction makes up for it, but at the higher levels, it was causing pain for those who build and renovate homes.

You don’t get a deduction because the standard deduction was raised under Trump and you obviously don’t have enough deductions to exceed the 25k standard deduction. This has nothing to do with SALT. I itemize my “double wide(s)” because I do have more deductions than that. The Democrats are helping us “rich” folks with their SALT deduction raise, but it wasn’t meant for people like me, it is just a payoff to the big Democratic donors from high tax states. They want everyone in the US to subsidize the idiocy of the left-wing high tax states. Funny you don’t have a problem with this seeing as how much you hate the rich. Just like a good little obedient lemming, as long as they are rich Democrats, you are cool with it.

Wow, you think it did, right. It was a vast conspiracy by the Chinese to infect themselves hoping it would go to America and Trump would fuck up the response. Um... that sounds a bit convoluted

Um, where have you been? Gain of function research was funded by your hero Fauci. They couldn’t do the research in the US so China made the most sense. The “accidental” release of this Fauci funded research just happend to coincide with the election and Trump with a clear path to victory. You were duped and continue to be by these evil people. They prey on folks like you who fancy themselves as enlightened when if fact they are some of the least informed folks in the country due to their dependence on the mainstream media and lack of curiosity.

The reason why I call it "White People Welfare" is that it's welfare that white people are okay with. Not that they are actually paying for it, if you live to be 72 you get everything you paid into it back.

You need to update your facts a bit.

For example, workers with average wages who retired at age 65 in 1980 got back both the employee and employer share of Social Security contributions, plus interest, in only 2.8 years, according to a Congressional Research Service study of the subject.

A similar person who retired in 2003 will have to wait 17.3 years before getting that money back, according to CRS.

“For those retiring in 2020 it will take 21.6 years,” writes CRS analyst Dawn Nuschler.


I might also add that this is not taking into account compounding interest.

Social Security and Medicare: Do you get back what you pay in?


They are the majority of people on these programs... despite the inherent racism of our society

Yeah, BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE WHITE PEOPLE. What don’t you understand about percentages and per capita? You never stop with the racism nonsense. You need help.

First, any fool can tell it's getting warmer. I just have to look at what winters are like in Chicago now compared to what they were like when I was a kid in the 1970's.

I didn’t make any claims about it getting warmer or not. I said you have bought into AGW. The climate is cyclical genius. If you would take the time to do any real research, instead of just being spoon-fed what to believe you would figure it out. You are incapable of breaking that mind-meld they have on you. I guess that is what happens growing up in area like Chicago.

I wouldn't "vacation" in the South... Too many fucking inbred rednecks. You really do get I despise you people, right.

Um, the South is one of the hottest vacation markets in the US. It has been that way for years. Yes, it is certainly due to the weather, but also the nice areas. The feeling is mutual. We despise unsuccessful lefties trying to tell us that we should give them more money to fund their pet social projects. We especially despise you rude, immoral folks moving down here and bringing the idiocy with you.

Except everything he said about Covid was steeped in ignorance. That's when he didn't treat Drs. Fauci and Brix like they were the enemy for not sharing his rosy view of things

Fauci is a polical hack before he is a physcian. Like most lefties, politics and ideology reign supreme. He follows the science only when it suits his agenda, otherwise, not so much.

I go by what I saw with companies I worked with.... They were already cutting staff, they were already slowing down projections. Supply chains were already getting screwed up by Trump's unncessary trade war.

I didn’t see it, nor did the stock market or the labor market around the US. Maybe your lefty state policies had something to do with it.

Here's the thing, guy. If you have northerners coming down to your states, it's usually because they can't find anyone to run their factories, because most of you are piss-ignorant. So they have to lure someone from up north to come down there

They aren’t coming here for factory jobs. They are coming here for white collar jobs. We have an inordinate amount of engineers and other college educated professionals in my area along with many major global corporations. The salaries vs the cost of living is very favorable. The same engineer living in your area would make little more money, if any, and would have a far lower standard of living. That is what red policies will do for you. Now, if you are loser who wants government to be your sugar daddy and don’t care about high taxes or costs of living because you don‘t pay them, then moving to a blue state make more sense. You seem to be in the right place. Please stay there and enjoy the weather, the rule people and the high taxes. Somebody has to like that kind of life, but it isn’t for everybody.
 

g5000

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You are free to speculate on how a flat tax would be treated by politicians but that is all that you are offering as a counter argument - speculation.
You are incredibly naive if you doubt that is exactly what would happen.

Irrespective of the tax system spending needs to be sharply curtailed and entitlements should be the first thing to go at the federal level. Spending should be decided at the state level given that states have no power to print money, forcing most states to live within their means.
.
Social Security and Medicare "entitlements" are paid for by a worker's contributions their entire working life.

The $1.4 trillion in ANNUAL tax expenditures are paid for by raising tax rates on everyone and heavy borrowing.

They need to go first.
 

JoeB131

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They get what they are worth. Most wouldn’t have a job if it wasn’t for companies like Amazon. You have it backwards, as usual.

NOt at all. The Capitalist is a parasite that has convinced the world it is a vital organ. They have jobs at Amazon because there is consumer demand. Period. Has nothing to do with Bezos, and you could have a government takeover of Amazon and put a GS-15 in charge, and it would probably run just as well.

They want everyone in the US to subsidize the idiocy of the left-wing high tax states. Funny you don’t have a problem with this seeing as how much you hate the rich. Just like a good little obedient lemming, as long as they are rich Democrats, you are cool with it.
Actually, I'm for it because it was Trump's idea, and all of Trump's ideas were stupid. This was a stupid policy that discouraged home investment.


Um, where have you been? Gain of function research was funded by your hero Fauci.
And we're going to crazy town.. Will we hear about the Lizard People and Hunter's Laptop next?

You need to update your facts a bit.

Nope, my facts are fine, thanks.

Yeah, BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE WHITE PEOPLE. What don’t you understand about percentages and per capita? You never stop with the racism nonsense. You need help.

Doesn't matter. You clowns, starting with Reagan painted the picture of the "Welfare Queen" as being an overweight black woman with multiple children by multiple fathers. The reality is she's far more likely to be a white person living in a trailer park.

I didn’t make any claims about it getting warmer or not. I said you have bought into AGW. The climate is cyclical genius. If you would take the time to do any real research, instead of just being spoon-fed what to believe you would figure it out. You are incapable of breaking that mind-meld they have on you. I guess that is what happens growing up in area like Chicago.

I have done real research. 95% of climate scientists agree that AGW is real. CO2 traps heat. Burning fossil fuels increases the level of CO2. This isn't fucking complicated.

Fauci is a polical hack before he is a physcian. Like most lefties, politics and ideology reign supreme. He follows the science only when it suits his agenda, otherwise, not so much.
Except his Science was fine. the problem was, Trump made masks, social distancing, vaccinations as part of the culture war. The rest of the world didn't do this and that's why the US had 25% of the Covid Deaths with only 4% of the world's population.

I didn’t see it, nor did the stock market or the labor market around the US. Maybe your lefty state policies had something to do with it.

Nope, I saw it first hand with the company I was doing supply chain consulting for last year. Longer lead times, companies moving their factories from China to Vietnam to avoid Trump's tariffs, shortages of things like PCB boards...

They aren’t coming here for factory jobs. They are coming here for white collar jobs. We have an inordinate amount of engineers and other college educated professionals in my area along with many major global corporations.

You tell yourself that, Cleetus, but the fact is, they can't find the engineers down in Jesus-Land. Probably because people who think talking snakes were a thing don't make good engineers. So they have to import them from up north...

Then they start to realize how backwards you people really are... and try to change things.
 

DBA

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NOt at all. The Capitalist is a parasite that has convinced the world it is a vital organ. They have jobs at Amazon because there is consumer demand. Period. Has nothing to do with Bezos, and you could have a government takeover of Amazon and put a GS-15 in charge, and it would probably run just as well.

Wow. At least we know where you stand. You are really living in the wrong country. You need to move to a Socialists country. I am not bashing you for it, just saying that you clearly have a proclivity towards that form of government. That is not what the US should become.

Actually, I'm for it because it was Trump's idea, and all of Trump's ideas were stupid. This was a stupid policy that discouraged home investment.

Yeah, he should listen to folks like yourself that has managed to reach the pinnacle of average in their careers.

And we're going to crazy town.. Will we hear about the Lizard People and Hunter's Laptop next?

Boy, you really are behind aren’t you? You need to inform yourself and get off of MSNBC. Before you start slamming the source of the link, notice that the image of the letter below was from

https://nypost.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2021/09/wuhan-doc.jpg?quality=90&strip=all

Now, if you actually want to know more about it you can read the link below. They won’t report this on the MSM because they have to keep you lemmings in line, though I think most of you are too brainwashed to be influenced anyway as evidenced by your insatiable curiosity with anything involvng Trump and your utter apathy with regards to Biden.

Wuhan lab documents show Fauci ‘untruthful’ about gain-of-function research: critics

Nope, my facts are fine, thanks.

No, they are 20 years out of date, but don’t let that get in the way of a good tantrum, right? Yeah, the fact is that most won’t collect what they put into SS. That throws a huge monkey wrench in your white people welfare nonsensical argument.

Doesn't matter. You clowns, starting with Reagan painted the picture of the "Welfare Queen" as being an overweight black woman with multiple children by multiple fathers. The reality is she's far more likely to be a white person living in a trailer park.

The reality is that if you put 100 people in a room with 100 black people odds are that more black people in that room being will be on welfare. You can’t have it both ways. On one hand you insistently rat about racism and lack of opportunity and how white people are priviledged but on the other you talk about how white people are the ones sucking the welfare system dry. You are void of logic.

I have done real research. 95% of climate scientists agree that AGW is real. CO2 traps heat. Burning fossil fuels increases the level of CO2. This isn't fucking complicated.

The simple fact that you spew the 95% of climate scientists crap that Obama claimed is proof that you have done no rearearch other than reading left-wing rags that further bolster your brainwashing. You are right it isn’t complicated. Greenies, many scientists included, have you and your kind by the you know what and they are laughing all the way to the bank. Don’t fret. They will continue to move the extinction timeline forward as needed for their agenda.

Except his Science was fine. the problem was, Trump made masks, social distancing, vaccinations as part of the culture war. The rest of the world didn't do this and that's why the US had 25% of the Covid Deaths with only 4% of the world's population.

No, his “science “ as all over the map and extremely political. You can’t blame the guy for protecting his own butt since his department played a role the funding of the lab from which it escaped. Yeah, I know, that blows your 5 brain cells, but try to keep up. Much of the rest of the world also used HCQ, Ivermectin and other therapeutics that Fauci and big pharma poo pooed. Follow the money little lemming.

You tell yourself that, Cleetus, but the fact is, they can't find the engineers down in Jesus-Land. Probably because people who think talking snakes were a thing don't make good engineers. So they have to import them from up north...

Then they start to realize how backwards you people really are... and try to change things.

We have several very good engineering universities in our area. We don’t have a problem finding educated people. Educated people are coming here because they recognize they can live much better. Granted, in many cases their indoctrination doesn’t allow them to put 2 and 2 together to figure out exactly WHY they can live better here, but that is another topic. My hope is that they becoming wiser as they get older and are away from the indoctrination centers in blue states.
 

Decus

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You are incredibly naive if you doubt that is exactly what would happen.


Social Security and Medicare "entitlements" are paid for by a worker's contributions their entire working life.

The $1.4 trillion in ANNUAL tax expenditures are paid for by raising tax rates on everyone and heavy borrowing.

They need to go first.

When in recent history has the U.S. had a flat tax? Your predictions are nothing more than an opinion and you are free to speculate as much as you want.

The government doesn't belong in the health and retirement business. Both areas are unsustainable in terms of the government's ability to manage and deliver services and results based on the contributions it receives.


.
 

g5000

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When in recent history has the U.S. had a flat tax? Your predictions are nothing more than an opinion and you are free to speculate as much as you want.
Again, you are being incredibly naive.
 

Decus

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Again, you are being incredibly naive.

You are funny. You believe that if a flat tax ever becomes reality that the government will be free to modify the system and return to what we have now. And here is why I believe you are wrong. Government isn't interested in a flat tax and therefore would never lead the charge to implement a clear and transparent flat tax approach.

The driver for a flat tax system would be the citizens who are fed-up with the present system. Those same citizens would fight any attempt at manipulating a flat tax to return to what we have now. Don't underestimate the drive and resolve of a pissed-off taxpayer.

.
 

bripat9643

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You are funny. You believe that if a flat tax ever becomes reality that the government will be free to modify the system and return to what we have now. And here is why I believe you are wrong. Government isn't interested in a flat tax and therefore would never lead the charge to implement a clear and transparent flat tax approach.

The driver for a flat tax system would be the citizens who are fed-up with the present system. Those same citizens would fight any attempt at manipulating a flat tax to return to what we have now. Don't underestimate the drive and resolve of a pissed-off taxpayer.

.
They have a vast motivation to tinker with the income tax because they can reward individual special interest groups. But how do they reward or penalize individuals with the FAIR tax? It's imposed on businesses, not individuals.
 

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