[POLL] - Liberals, how much is a "fair share?" - Taxes

[RKMBrown]

Where did I say I was against property rights? Quote me.

I went back and added bold emphasis to your stated lack of support of rights to property.

Where? Make it very simple for me to see. Tell me which post number, and quote where i said i am against property rights. The only bold part here is what you said I said, but have never said that? Are you a lier? Please quote me... Where did I say i am against property rights?

LOL you don't know how to look back one page? ROFL Sure fine I'll quote it again for you.

 

[originalthought]

I went back and added bold emphasis to your stated lack of support of rights to property.

Where? Make it very simple for me to see. Tell me which post number, and quote where i said i am against property rights. The only bold part here is what you said I said, but have never said that? Are you a lier? Please quote me... Where did I say i am against property rights?

LOL you don't know how to look back one page? ROFL Sure fine I'll quote it again for you.

Really, you may think I am being ridiculous, but if I said I am against private property, then I need to clean up what I said. The post where you said you added bold emphasis, there was nothing in bold.

 

[Indeependent]

I'm in mind of the Constitutionally guaranteed rights of we, the people.

It is our country to run.

I explained our recourse. What we buy, and whom we vote for.

You're weaseling, as usual. What do you mean by the words "loss" and "recourse?" You obviously don't want to say.

We already have recourse listed above, so what were you whining about?

Voters choose whatever scumbags they want to run the government, but they have no right to determine how owners run their businesses. Government and business are two separate things.

Customers have always determined how businesses are run. Capitalism 101.

Customers have an effect to a point.
Apple or Microsoft may determine goals internally as opposed to what the majority of their customers want.
Certainly AT&T and Verizon are slowly reactive to providing the service quality their customers demand for their money, especially when their 4G networks can't handle data loads.
Most utilities are monopolies and can charge as they please.

 

[PMZ]

Therein lies the reason socialism does not work. You appear to believe that only I can create a job for you and if I refuse you believe you have the right to punish me with fines for refusing to hire you against all better judgement. This apparently because I have a job therefore I should be punished for it. Then you wonder why I would not hire you. Then in response to me not hiring you is you demand free health care. ROFL

My point is not what you wish it was. It's that businesses should be held by the people of the country as accountable as government is. We control government by voting and business by buying.

Another control point is to use government to regulate business, an alternative as old as the country is.

We, the people have to become more informed and better organized to exercise the right to control both services to us.

If a win for a particular company results in a loss for the owners of the country, we, the people, then we ought to, and do, have recourse. We merely need to become more effective at it.

Of course, one way to become more effective is to oust Republicans from government until they return to servicing us.

Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together. Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine.

Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country. Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life.

"Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together."

Absolutely. The vast majority of them workers/voters/consumers. The ones for whom this country exists, according to our Constitution.

" Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine."

Holding them accountable for their impact on the big picture is not punishing them. Not holding them accountable is punishing we, the people.

" Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country."

Absolutely.

" Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life".

Republican propaganda. There is no way for an individual to take over the country unless he is nearly infinitely wealthy.

While there are undoubtedly people looking for a free ride, you appear to be one of them, they are a small minority. Most people would settle for a job that paid the bills and conferred a little self respect.

Jobs are the business of business. At the moment they are doing a lousy job at that.

Or, in other words, as we did with Bush, we the people are failing at our job of running the country.

 

[RKMBrown]

Here you go...

First of all PMZ did say that government prevents monopolies. Then you said they are illegal, except when the government allows, as in the case of the Federal Reserve. I get that you are a Statist, and that whatever the State says, you're ok with that. If the State says that this monopoly is illegal, that's ok with you, and if the state says this monopoly is legal, you are ok with that too. I am not. I think the State should stay out of economics. My point was to show you the contradiction, but you are too blinded to beleive only the State, youcannot see it.

The free market does not allow for monopolies, all monopolies that have existed, existed with the help of some kind of government law (protcetions, tarifss, etc). I can find a number of economist to support me, just as you can find a number of economist to support yourself. But that doesn't mean both of us, and the economist we use, are corect. Even though the government allows for patent rights, doesn't make it correct. This is protectionism.

IOW you are against property rights of individuals. You are a bigger idiot than he is. Edited to add bold emphasis.

originalthought... lol funny name given you don't support the protections for intellectual property rights. Is your tag supposed to be ironic or something?

 

[originalthought]

Here you go...

First of all PMZ did say that government prevents monopolies. Then you said they are illegal, except when the government allows, as in the case of the Federal Reserve. I get that you are a Statist, and that whatever the State says, you're ok with that. If the State says that this monopoly is illegal, that's ok with you, and if the state says this monopoly is legal, you are ok with that too. I am not. I think the State should stay out of economics. My point was to show you the contradiction, but you are too blinded to beleive only the State, youcannot see it.

The free market does not allow for monopolies, all monopolies that have existed, existed with the help of some kind of government law (protcetions, tarifss, etc). I can find a number of economist to support me, just as you can find a number of economist to support yourself. But that doesn't mean both of us, and the economist we use, are corect. Even though the government allows for patent rights, doesn't make it correct. This is protectionism.

IOW you are against property rights of individuals. You are a bigger idiot than he is. Edited to add bold emphasis.

originalthought... lol funny name given you don't support the protections for intellectual property rights. Is your tag supposed to be ironic or something?

Where did I say I am against private property rights? ROFL. OMG you are an idiot. You said I said I am against private property and you qutoed this?? ROFL LMAO at you. LOL Please next time you say I said something, please do not lie

 

[PMZ]

You're weaseling, as usual. What do you mean by the words "loss" and "recourse?" You obviously don't want to say.

We already have recourse listed above, so what were you whining about?

Voters choose whatever scumbags they want to run the government, but they have no right to determine how owners run their businesses. Government and business are two separate things.

Customers have always determined how businesses are run. Capitalism 101.

You obviously aren't talking about customers choosing where to spend their dollars. Someone tried to pin you down on your dishonest use of language, so now you're weaseling.

More of what you wish was true. I'm beginning to think that you feel entitled to that.

 

[PMZ]

You're weaseling, as usual. What do you mean by the words "loss" and "recourse?" You obviously don't want to say.

We already have recourse listed above, so what were you whining about?

Voters choose whatever scumbags they want to run the government, but they have no right to determine how owners run their businesses. Government and business are two separate things.

Customers have always determined how businesses are run. Capitalism 101.

Customers have an effect to a point.
Apple or Microsoft may determine goals internally as opposed to what the majority of their customers want.
Certainly AT&T and Verizon are slowly reactive to providing the service quality their customers demand for their money, especially when their 4G networks can't handle data loads.
Most utilities are monopolies and can charge as they please.

" Most utilities are monopolies and can charge as they please."

This is all that I would challenge in your post.

In my experience utilities are highly regulated, necessarily so, in what they charge.

 

[itfitzme]

Customers have always determined how businesses are run. Capitalism 101.

Customers have an effect to a point.
Apple or Microsoft may determine goals internally as opposed to what the majority of their customers want.
Certainly AT&T and Verizon are slowly reactive to providing the service quality their customers demand for their money, especially when their 4G networks can't handle data loads.
Most utilities are monopolies and can charge as they please.

" Most utilities are monopolies and can charge as they please."

This is all that I would challenge in your post.

In my experience utilities are highly regulated, necessarily so, in what they charge.

And because they are natural monopolies.

 

[RKMBrown]

My point is not what you wish it was. It's that businesses should be held by the people of the country as accountable as government is. We control government by voting and business by buying.

Another control point is to use government to regulate business, an alternative as old as the country is.

We, the people have to become more informed and better organized to exercise the right to control both services to us.

If a win for a particular company results in a loss for the owners of the country, we, the people, then we ought to, and do, have recourse. We merely need to become more effective at it.

Of course, one way to become more effective is to oust Republicans from government until they return to servicing us.

Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together. Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine.

Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country. Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life.

"Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together."

Absolutely. The vast majority of them workers/voters/consumers. The ones for whom this country exists, according to our Constitution.

" Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine."

Holding them accountable for their impact on the big picture is not punishing them. Not holding them accountable is punishing we, the people.

" Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country."

Absolutely.

" Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life".

Republican propaganda. There is no way for an individual to take over the country unless he is nearly infinitely wealthy.

While there are undoubtedly people looking for a free ride, you appear to be one of them, they are a small minority. Most people would settle for a job that paid the bills and conferred a little self respect.

Jobs are the business of business. At the moment they are doing a lousy job at that.

Or, in other words, as we did with Bush, we the people are failing at our job of running the country.

And there we go again... completely off the rails with retarded Bush OCD statements, retarded it's all propaganda statements, and 3rd grade playground I know you are but what am I come backs, ...

Demanding that people not be allowed to profit from their labors, demanding that the business of business be jobs over profit, demanding we pay for the free rides, demanding workers be held accountable for people not working and/or who refuse to work, demanding basically we enact a Marxist state.

People would settle? WTF is wrong with you? Why the hell should people be treated like cattle and forced to settle for your vile despicable ideas for enacting HELL on EARTH?

 

[PMZ]

Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together. Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine.

Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country. Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life.

"Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together."

Absolutely. The vast majority of them workers/voters/consumers. The ones for whom this country exists, according to our Constitution.

" Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine."

Holding them accountable for their impact on the big picture is not punishing them. Not holding them accountable is punishing we, the people.

" Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country."

Absolutely.

" Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life".

Republican propaganda. There is no way for an individual to take over the country unless he is nearly infinitely wealthy.

While there are undoubtedly people looking for a free ride, you appear to be one of them, they are a small minority. Most people would settle for a job that paid the bills and conferred a little self respect.

Jobs are the business of business. At the moment they are doing a lousy job at that.

Or, in other words, as we did with Bush, we the people are failing at our job of running the country.

And there we go again... completely off the rails with retarded Bush OCD statements, retarded it's all propaganda statements, and 3rd grade playground I know you are but what am I come backs, ...

Demanding that people not be allowed to profit from their labors, demanding that the business of business be jobs over profit, demanding we pay for the free rides, demanding workers be held accountable for people not working and/or who refuse to work, demanding basically we enact a Marxist state.

People would settle? WTF is wrong with you? Why the hell should people be treated like cattle and forced to settle for your vile despicable ideas for enacting HELL on EARTH?

Typical conservative reaction to the realization that you are not masters of the universe.

You are not.

 

[RKMBrown]

Here you go...

IOW you are against property rights of individuals. You are a bigger idiot than he is. Edited to add bold emphasis.

originalthought... lol funny name given you don't support the protections for intellectual property rights. Is your tag supposed to be ironic or something?

Where did I say I am against private property rights? ROFL. OMG you are an idiot. You said I said I am against private property and you qutoed this?? ROFL LMAO at you. LOL Please next time you say I said something, please do not lie

So you deny patents are personal property? You deny patent rights are property rights?

I find your blather amusing. You think you can say stupid shit like "the State should stay out of economics" and "Even though the government allows for patent rights, doesn't make it correct." Then emphasize that "[t]his is protectionism," and have your statements ignored completely?

If you did not mean by "[e]ven though the government allows for patent rights, doesn't make it correct," that government should not allow patent rights, rewrite your sentence.

If you did not mean by "the State should stay out of economics," that the government should not protect property rights, the cornerstone of economics, then rewrite your sentence.

If you did not mean by "[t]his is protectionism" that patent rights, which are property, should not be protected, then rewrite your sentence.

How did you think your sentences should be read?

 

[PMZ]

Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together. Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine.

Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country. Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life.

"Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together."

Absolutely. The vast majority of them workers/voters/consumers. The ones for whom this country exists, according to our Constitution.

" Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine."

Holding them accountable for their impact on the big picture is not punishing them. Not holding them accountable is punishing we, the people.

" Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country."

Absolutely.

" Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life".

Republican propaganda. There is no way for an individual to take over the country unless he is nearly infinitely wealthy.

While there are undoubtedly people looking for a free ride, you appear to be one of them, they are a small minority. Most people would settle for a job that paid the bills and conferred a little self respect.

Jobs are the business of business. At the moment they are doing a lousy job at that.

Or, in other words, as we did with Bush, we the people are failing at our job of running the country.

And there we go again... completely off the rails with retarded Bush OCD statements, retarded it's all propaganda statements, and 3rd grade playground I know you are but what am I come backs, ...

Demanding that people not be allowed to profit from their labors, demanding that the business of business be jobs over profit, demanding we pay for the free rides, demanding workers be held accountable for people not working and/or who refuse to work, demanding basically we enact a Marxist state.

People would settle? WTF is wrong with you? Why the hell should people be treated like cattle and forced to settle for your vile despicable ideas for enacting HELL on EARTH?

" Demanding that people not be allowed to profit from their labors"

Actually, I'm demanding that people BE allowed to profit from their labors. All those who create wealth.

I'm also demanding that those who decided that their bonuses and profits were more important than our joint success be held accountable for it.

You don't need to agree. It's a job for the people that you feel superior to.

 

[RKMBrown]

"Businesses are nothing more than a collection of people contracting to work together."

Absolutely. The vast majority of them workers/voters/consumers. The ones for whom this country exists, according to our Constitution.

" Punishing businesses by placing responsibilities on them to take care of other people not associated with the collection of people in the business is, at best, asinine."

Holding them accountable for their impact on the big picture is not punishing them. Not holding them accountable is punishing we, the people.

" Additionally, our government is nothing more than a collection of people that work for the people of this country."

Absolutely.

" Holding them accountable for YOUR welfare is, at best, asinine. They are tasked with the general welfare, not individual welfare in the form of redistribution from one citizen to the next based on your desires for a free ride through life".

Republican propaganda. There is no way for an individual to take over the country unless he is nearly infinitely wealthy.

While there are undoubtedly people looking for a free ride, you appear to be one of them, they are a small minority. Most people would settle for a job that paid the bills and conferred a little self respect.

Jobs are the business of business. At the moment they are doing a lousy job at that.

Or, in other words, as we did with Bush, we the people are failing at our job of running the country.

And there we go again... completely off the rails with retarded Bush OCD statements, retarded it's all propaganda statements, and 3rd grade playground I know you are but what am I come backs, ...

Demanding that people not be allowed to profit from their labors, demanding that the business of business be jobs over profit, demanding we pay for the free rides, demanding workers be held accountable for people not working and/or who refuse to work, demanding basically we enact a Marxist state.

People would settle? WTF is wrong with you? Why the hell should people be treated like cattle and forced to settle for your vile despicable ideas for enacting HELL on EARTH?

Typical conservative reaction to the realization that you are not masters of the universe.

You are not.

I don't ask to be master of the universe, just master of my own space in it. You are the one demanding to be my master. I am not your slave you POS.

 

[RKMBrown]

I'm also demanding that those who decided that their bonuses and profits were more important than our joint success be held accountable for it.

And there it is, demanding Marxism be the law of the land.

 

[originalthought]

Here you go...


originalthought... lol funny name given you don't support the protections for intellectual property rights. Is your tag supposed to be ironic or something?

Where did I say I am against private property rights? ROFL. OMG you are an idiot. You said I said I am against private property and you qutoed this?? ROFL LMAO at you. LOL Please next time you say I said something, please do not lie

So you deny patents are personal property? You deny patent rights are property rights?

I find your blather amusing. You think you can say stupid shit like "the State should stay out of economics" and "Even though the government allows for patent rights, doesn't make it correct." Then emphasize that "[t]his is protectionism," and have your statements ignored completely?

If you did not mean by "[e]ven though the government allows for patent rights, doesn't make it correct," that government should not allow patent rights, rewrite your sentence.

If you did not mean by "the State should stay out of economics," that the government should not protect property rights, the cornerstone of economics, then rewrite your sentence.

If you did not mean by "[t]his is protectionism" that patent rights, which are property, should not be protected, then rewrite your sentence.

How did you think your sentences should be read?

No i meant all the things I said. But you are putting a meaning on them that is incorrect. I just started and New Thread- Capitalism and Patent Rights. Is it a contracdiction. Please come and debate it there.

 

[PMZ]

And there we go again... completely off the rails with retarded Bush OCD statements, retarded it's all propaganda statements, and 3rd grade playground I know you are but what am I come backs, ...

Demanding that people not be allowed to profit from their labors, demanding that the business of business be jobs over profit, demanding we pay for the free rides, demanding workers be held accountable for people not working and/or who refuse to work, demanding basically we enact a Marxist state.

People would settle? WTF is wrong with you? Why the hell should people be treated like cattle and forced to settle for your vile despicable ideas for enacting HELL on EARTH?

Typical conservative reaction to the realization that you are not masters of the universe.

You are not.

I don't ask to be master of the universe, just master of my own space in it. You are the one demanding to be my master. I am not your slave you POS.

"I don't ask to be master of the universe"

No. You believe that you are entitled to it because you work hard. You neglect the fact that almost everyone else does too, because if that were true, you'd have no claim to master of the universe.

I'm still waiting for the list of things that you feel entitled to do, that are now illegal, and therefore dents in your "liberty". In fact, I'd settle for a workable definition of "liberty".

 

[itfitzme]

This mindless belief that there is "socialism" in the US is one of the fundamental fantacies of the rightwing nuts where every instance of cooperation and commom standards is erroneously thrown in this fantacy. And I have yet to see any actual proof or detailed examples of this "socialism" that they have created as an enemy to fight against.

It takes little effort for them to go outside, walk to the store, and count the number of examples of real "socialism" and real free market. This is an excercise that will go unattempted as it would yield no "socialism" in reality.

They do though regularly use "punishment" in interacting with others. If there is any fundamental source of punishing behavior, it comes from right wing nuts who are their own example.

 

[RKMBrown]

Typical conservative reaction to the realization that you are not masters of the universe.

You are not.

I don't ask to be master of the universe, just master of my own space in it. You are the one demanding to be my master. I am not your slave you POS.

"I don't ask to be master of the universe"

No. You believe that you are entitled to it because you work hard. You neglect the fact that almost everyone else does too, because if that were true, you'd have no claim to master of the universe.

I'm still waiting for the list of things that you feel entitled to do, that are now illegal, and therefore dents in your "liberty". In fact, I'd settle for a workable definition of "liberty".

When did you ever, EVER BEFORE, ask me for a list of things that I feel I'm entitled to?

Here's my list: Life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. Life includes my labor. You touch the income I get from my labor without my permission, I consider that a violation against my Life. A personal threat. A stab in the back. Taking food from my family. Crossing my property line to take my assets. Trespassers will be fed to the dogs then shot. Do I make my self clear yet Karl?

 

[bripat9643]

Customers have an effect to a point.
Apple or Microsoft may determine goals internally as opposed to what the majority of their customers want.
Certainly AT&T and Verizon are slowly reactive to providing the service quality their customers demand for their money, especially when their 4G networks can't handle data loads.
Most utilities are monopolies and can charge as they please.

" Most utilities are monopolies and can charge as they please."

This is all that I would challenge in your post.

In my experience utilities are highly regulated, necessarily so, in what they charge.

And because they are natural monopolies.

Then why do they need government to protect their monopoly?