POLL: Do you WANT to heal our divisions?

[candycorn]

It's impossible to take people seriously when they say goofy shit like this. ^^

Correct. And almost 100% of the time, if you give them a few days (in some cases weeks), they will make contradictory statements about where the supposed “deep state” had influence and not.

Like supposedly they say the deep state has pictures or something on Speaker Johnson. If a few weeks, when Johnson says or does something they approve of, suddenly “they” will no longer have any leverage.

 

[AHZ]

Correct. And almost 100% of the time, if you give them a few days (in some cases weeks), they will make contradictory statements about where the supposed “deep state” had influence and not.

Like supposedly they say the deep state has pictures or something on Speaker Johnson. If a few weeks, when Johnson says or does something they approve of, suddenly “they” will no longer have any leverage.

they don't need pictures.

they just take them into the back and show them a picture of JFK.

no words required.

on edit. ok they need one picture.

 

[candycorn]

they don't need pictures.

they just take them into the back and show them a picture of JFK.

no words required.

Ahh, a conspiracy theory. How funny.

Speakers of the House don’t usually travel in motorcades so why would that even remotely work?

 

[AHZ]

Ahh, a conspiracy theory. How funny.

Speakers of the House don’t usually travel in motorcades so why would that even remotely work?

Assassination can take many forms. you know that.

don't be purposefully dumb, please.

thank you for your compliance in this matter.

 

[dblack]

The separatists have realized they lack the skill and/or temperament to collaborate constructively with others.

So they'd rather just rip the whole thing down, as their way of throwing a temper tantrum in frustration.

I think it's more subtle than that, and somewhat more understandable.

Some people, for good reason or bad, will rarely be represented by a majority rule vote. These people have little reason to support, and plenty of reason to reject, government based on majority rule. This is the core problem of democracy.

The Founders sought to address this problem by strictly limiting what government can do in the name of majority rule. That gives some assurance to minority voters that they won't simply be slaves to the majority, that their rights will remain intact even if the majority disagrees with them. It makes it possible for the losers of a given vote to say "well, we didn't get our way this time, but there's only so much damage the other side can do, so we'll accept it for now."

If voters lose confidence in the Constitutional limits on government power, they can no longer accept majority rule. I think that's a large part of what's going on with the divide. Neither side can accept defeat.

A lot of it is also systemic, due to innate flaws in plurality voting, things that various reforms like RCV could address. But we have to have enough unity to pass those reforms, so ...

 

[Curried Goats]

I think it's more subtle than that, and somewhat more understandable.

Some people, for good reason or bad, will rarely be represented by a majority rule vote. These people have little reason to support, and plenty of reason to reject, government based on majority rule. This is the core problem of democracy.

The Founders sought to address this problem by strictly limiting what government can do in the name of majority rule. That gives some assurance to minority voters that they won't simply be slaves to the majority, that their rights will remain intact even if the majority disagrees with them. It makes it possible for the losers of a given vote to say "well, we didn't get our way this time, but there's only so much damage the other side can do, so we'll accept it for now."

If voters lose confidence in the Constitutional limits on government power, they can no longer accept majority rule. I think that's a large part of what's going on with the divide.

A lot of it is also systemic, due to innate flaws in plurality voting, things that various reforms like RCV could address. But we have to have enough unity to pass those reforms, so ...

The slaver Founders strictly limited what government could do because they didn't want it to interfere with their exploitation of people and resources.

 

[AHZ]

I think it's more subtle than that, and somewhat more understandable.

Some people, for good reason or bad, will rarely be represented by a majority rule vote. These people have little reason to support, and plenty of reason to reject, government based on majority rule. This is the core problem of democracy.

The Founders sought to address this problem by strictly limiting what government can do in the name of majority rule. That gives some assurance to minority voters that they won't simply be slaves to the majority, that their rights will remain intact even if the majority disagrees with them. It makes it possible for the losers of a given vote to say "well, we didn't get our way this time, but there's only so much damage the other side can do, so we'll accept it for now."

If voters lose confidence in the Constitutional limits on government power, they can no longer accept majority rule. I think that's a large part of what's going on with the divide.

A lot of it is also systemic, due to innate flaws in plurality voting, things that various reforms like RCV could address. But we have to have enough unity to pass those reforms, so ...

the government is corrupt right now so it only serves elite oligarch fascists and their puppets.

we need reform. top to bottom.

a deep state purge.

 

[candycorn]

Assassination can take many forms. you know that.

don't be purposefully dumb, please.

thank you for your compliance in this matter.

Ummm hmmm.....

Of course it would cause someone to wonder why they would not just murder the guys who are trying to oust him since, as I’m sure you’ll agree, they can pick off anyone at any time.

 

[AHZ]

Ummm hmmm.....

Of course it would cause someone to wonder why they would not just murder the guys who are trying to oust him since, as I’m sure you’ll agree, they can pick off anyone at any time.

They may.

and you're for it.

you're a sick individual

 

[candycorn]

They may.

and you're for it.

you're a sick individual

No, I’m just ridiculing your dumb ass.

 

[Mac1958]

How many "separatists" are there, really.

In terms of Congress, I'd say very few. MTG and a few others. Most of those people know what's going on, even people like Gaetz and Jordan. The problem is that the base has been driven into such a paranoid frenzy by talk radio and the rest of MAGA media that the cowards in Congress won't stand up. Their cushy gubmit jobs are too important to them.

I think they're more responsible for this disaster than anyone else, including the orange buffoon.

 

[AHZ]

No, I’m just ridiculing your dumb ass.

how so?

 

[AHZ]

In terms of Congress, I'd say very few. MTG and a few others. Most of those people know what's going on. The problem is that the base has been driven into such a paranoid frenzy by talk radio and the rest of MAGA media that the cowards in Congress won't stand up. Their cushy gubmit jobs are too important to them.

I think they're more responsible for this disaster than anyone else.

and the Dems are the real populists. don't forget.

 

[Mac1958]

I think it's more subtle than that, and somewhat more understandable.

Some people, for good reason or bad, will rarely be represented by a majority rule vote. These people have little reason to support, and plenty of reason to reject, government based on majority rule. This is the core problem of democracy.

The Founders sought to address this problem by strictly limiting what government can do in the name of majority rule. That gives some assurance to minority voters that they won't simply be slaves to the majority, that their rights will remain intact even if the majority disagrees with them. It makes it possible for the losers of a given vote to say "well, we didn't get our way this time, but there's only so much damage the other side can do, so we'll accept it for now."

If voters lose confidence in the Constitutional limits on government power, they can no longer accept majority rule. I think that's a large part of what's going on with the divide. Neither side can accept defeat.

A lot of it is also systemic, due to innate flaws in plurality voting, things that various reforms like RCV could address. But we have to have enough unity to pass those reforms, so ...

For me, the failure of the "system" is at the core of this. We've discussed the possible fixes many times here, but there is no motivation for our "leaders" (ha ha) to implement them. Holy crap, why WOULD they?

The Right has several perfectly reasonable concerns in my view. The problem is the way they approach them. Mindless, ignorant, paranoid caveman politics isn't the way, and only opens the door for another wild fucking swing to the Left again.

 

[martybegan]

For me, the failure of the "system" is at the core of this. We've discussed the possible fixes many times here, but there is no motivation for our "leaders" (ha ha) to implement them. Holy crap, why WOULD they?

The Right has several perfectly reasonable concerns in my view. The problem is the way they approach them. Mindless, ignorant, paranoid caveman politics isn't the way, and only opens the door for another wild fucking swing to the Left again.

Talk about a condescending backhanded acknowledgement of someone else's opinion.

 

[Curried Goats]

Talk about a condescending backhanded acknowledgement of someone else's opinion.

He just wishes you dumb Bingos would go back to only threatening the rights of blacks and gays and not democracy itself so he could vote with you again to stave off his real enemies on the left.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

and the Dems are the real populists. don't forget.

Who's forgetting? Unfortunately, today's GOP are giving dems a run for their money in the populism department. Parties aside, it's hard to take folks that don't stand for anything seriously. Populism sucks.

This has always been a race to the bottom with the endgame of raw power.

 

[AHZ]

Who's forgetting? Unfortunately, today's GOP are giving dems a run for their money in the populism department. Parties aside, it's hard to take folks that don't stand for anything seriously. Populism sucks.

This has always been a race to the bottom with the endgame of raw power.

populism is good.

faux populism is bad.

our nation is based on populism. freedom is populism.

a government of, by and for the people, is populism.

 

[martybegan]

He just wishes you dumb Bingos would go back to only threatening the rights of blacks and gays and not democracy itself so he could vote with you again to stave off his real enemies on the left.

The poster-child for someone not worth compromising with.

 

[Curried Goats]

The poster-child for someone not worth compromising with.

I'm not asking you to. Wrong poster.