Politics and Religion

[Dogbiscuit]

This program live streamed just yesterday evening.
Wife and I just watched it a few hours ago, and we were both moved and impressed.
We are kinda old school, so the the music wasn't as desirable, but we thoroughly enjoyed the rest.
First time we have seen, both politics and religion together, at this level of intensity.
Hope you enjoy,

WATCH IT LIVE

www.nonessential.live

 

[ABikerSailor]

Sorry, but I don't believe that politics and religion should be mixed. Both should be kept separate, as they cover 2 different things. Believe what you want to believe, but keep your religion out of my government, as not everyone in this country has the same belief system for religion.

We all live in this country together however, which is why I think that they should be 2 separate things.

 

[Dogbiscuit]

Sorry, but I don't believe that politics and religion should be mixed. Both should be kept separate, as they cover 2 different things. Believe what you want to believe, but keep your religion out of my government, as not everyone in this country has the same belief system for religion.

We all live in this country together however, which is why I think that they should be 2 separate things.

So you are alright living in a country, where the government was founded and established with a belief in God, but now you dont want to mix the two ?
Gotcha

 

[Grumblenuts]

FFRF!

 

[ReinyDays]

So you are alright living in a country, where the government was founded and established with a belief in God, but now you dont want to mix the two ?
Gotcha

Right ... before, government and church were one in the same ... King George III was both Head-of-State and Head-of-Church de jure ... in the United States, these two entities are completely separate ... no church in government, and no government in church ...

Individuals ... of course ... are allowed to mix politics and religion ... and are allowed not to ... it's our choice ...

 

[Dogbiscuit]

Right ... before, government and church were one in the same ... King George III was both Head-of-State and Head-of-Church de jure ... in the United States, these two entities are completely separate ... no church in government, and no government in church ...

The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different.
Hence, you contradicted yourself.

 

[ding]

Right ... before, government and church were one in the same ... King George III was both Head-of-State and Head-of-Church de jure ... in the United States, these two entities are completely separate ... no church in government, and no government in church ...

The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different.
Hence, you contradicted yourself.

How did he do that?

 

[Dogbiscuit]

How did he do that?

Well without having to type out a long explanation, he said, " in the United States, these two entities are completely separate",
and they are not completely separate. People may want you to believe they are in written documentation only, aka Constitution, but they arent. Why do you think the libs are so concerned about Barretts nomination ?
This in combination with his full context is contradictory, especially when compared to my response of "The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different."
Remember that back when our country was founded, and the Constitution was written, that probably 99.9% of all Americans believed in a God...period. It was just a given back then.
Today, most radical libs want so much to take that away.
They think that God and Politics dont mix, and they do.

 

[ding]

How did he do that?

Well without having to type out a long explanation, he said, " in the United States, these two entities are completely separate",
and they are not completely separate. People may want you to believe they are in written documentation only, aka Constitution, but they arent. Why do you think the libs are so concerned about Barretts nomination ?
This in combination with his full context is contradictory, especially when compared to my response of "The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different."
Remember that back when our country was founded, and the Constitution was written, that probably 99.9% of all Americans believed in a God...period. It was just a given back then.
Today, most radical libs want so much to take that away.
They think that God and Politics dont mix, and they do.

You know... that's exactly what Alexis De Tocqueville observed....

One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things.

In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief.

I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society.

In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution.

Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom. The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other. Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

Tocqueville gives this account of a court case in New York:
While I was in America, a witness, who happened to be called at the assizes of the county of Chester (state of New York), declared that he did not believe in the existence of God or in the immortality of the soul. The judge refused to admit his evidence, on the ground that the witness had destroyed beforehand all confidence of the court in what he was about to say. The newspapers related the fact without any further comment. The New York Spectator of August 23rd, 1831, relates the fact in the following terms:

"The court of common pleas of Chester county (New York), a few days since rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked, that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no case in a Christian country, where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief."

 

[Dogbiscuit]

How did he do that?

Well without having to type out a long explanation, he said, " in the United States, these two entities are completely separate",
and they are not completely separate. People may want you to believe they are in written documentation only, aka Constitution, but they arent. Why do you think the libs are so concerned about Barretts nomination ?
This in combination with his full context is contradictory, especially when compared to my response of "The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different."
Remember that back when our country was founded, and the Constitution was written, that probably 99.9% of all Americans believed in a God...period. It was just a given back then.
Today, most radical libs want so much to take that away.
They think that God and Politics dont mix, and they do.

You know... that's exactly what Alexis De Tocqueville observed....

One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things.

In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief.

I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society.

In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution.

Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom. The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other. Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

Tocqueville gives this account of a court case in New York:
While I was in America, a witness, who happened to be called at the assizes of the county of Chester (state of New York), declared that he did not believe in the existence of God or in the immortality of the soul. The judge refused to admit his evidence, on the ground that the witness had destroyed beforehand all confidence of the court in what he was about to say. The newspapers related the fact without any further comment. The New York Spectator of August 23rd, 1831, relates the fact in the following terms:

"The court of common pleas of Chester county (New York), a few days since rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked, that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no case in a Christian country, where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief."

Interesting read.
Ive also found it interesting that all state constitutions mention God or the "divine"

God or the divine is referenced in every state constitution

God or the divine is mentioned at least once in each of the 50 state constitutions and nearly 200 times overall.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[ding]

How did he do that?

Well without having to type out a long explanation, he said, " in the United States, these two entities are completely separate",
and they are not completely separate. People may want you to believe they are in written documentation only, aka Constitution, but they arent. Why do you think the libs are so concerned about Barretts nomination ?
This in combination with his full context is contradictory, especially when compared to my response of "The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different."
Remember that back when our country was founded, and the Constitution was written, that probably 99.9% of all Americans believed in a God...period. It was just a given back then.
Today, most radical libs want so much to take that away.
They think that God and Politics dont mix, and they do.

You know... that's exactly what Alexis De Tocqueville observed....

One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things.

In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief.

I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society.

In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution.

Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom. The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other. Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

Tocqueville gives this account of a court case in New York:
While I was in America, a witness, who happened to be called at the assizes of the county of Chester (state of New York), declared that he did not believe in the existence of God or in the immortality of the soul. The judge refused to admit his evidence, on the ground that the witness had destroyed beforehand all confidence of the court in what he was about to say. The newspapers related the fact without any further comment. The New York Spectator of August 23rd, 1831, relates the fact in the following terms:

"The court of common pleas of Chester county (New York), a few days since rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked, that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no case in a Christian country, where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief."

Interesting read.
Ive also found it interesting that all state constitutions mention God or the "divine"

God or the divine is referenced in every state constitution

God or the divine is mentioned at least once in each of the 50 state constitutions and nearly 200 times overall.

www.pewresearch.org

That's because the establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with state established religions. The so called separation of church and state only applied to the federal government. States were free to establish state religions. In fact, half of the states had established state religions at the time the constitution was ratified.

 

[Dogbiscuit]

That's because the establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with state established religions. The so called separation of church and state only applied to the federal government. States were free to establish state religions. In fact, half of the states had established state religions at the time the constitution was ratified

Thanks for explaining that, and this is exactly where that gray area of Politics and Religion come into play imo.
Bare with me on this, due to my inadequate understanding;
Because of the relationship between each individual states representation in courts and the governments constitution, poses a problem when any religious case, from any such state, makes its way to the supreme court.
If I understand this correctly, this is that area that I refer to as gray, as when the Supreme court rules against any such state, depending on the interpretation of the law, and of course the personal views of the Supreme Court Justices.
Its difficult to put my opinion in words, but my point is that I feel there is a great importance in having a belief in God, if you are to make decisions in reference to law of this land, regardless of your political choice.
I know and understand that this controversy can and probably will continue, but maybe not as much, if the next few generations can be taught history lessons "correctly" and be taught to love our country.

 

[BreezeWood]

How did he do that?

Well without having to type out a long explanation, he said, " in the United States, these two entities are completely separate",
and they are not completely separate. People may want you to believe they are in written documentation only, aka Constitution, but they arent. Why do you think the libs are so concerned about Barretts nomination ?
This in combination with his full context is contradictory, especially when compared to my response of "The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different."
Remember that back when our country was founded, and the Constitution was written, that probably 99.9% of all Americans believed in a God...period. It was just a given back then.
Today, most radical libs want so much to take that away.
They think that God and Politics dont mix, and they do.

You know... that's exactly what Alexis De Tocqueville observed....

One Nation Under God: Alexis de Tocqueville

Upon my arrival in the United States the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more I perceived the great political consequences resulting from this new state of things.

In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in opposite directions. But in America I found they were intimately united and that they reigned in common over the same country.

Religion in America...must be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country; for if it does not impart a taste for freedom, it facilitates the use of it. Indeed, it is in this same point of view that the inhabitants of the United States themselves look upon religious belief.

I do not know whether all Americans have a sincere faith in their religion -- for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican institutions. This opinion is not peculiar to a class of citizens or a party, but it belongs to the whole nation and to every rank of society.

In the United States, the sovereign authority is religious...there is no country in the world where the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America, and there can be no greater proof of its utility and of its conformity to human nature than that its influence is powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

In the United States, the influence of religion is not confined to the manners, but it extends to the intelligence of the people...

Christianity, therefore, reigns without obstacle, by universal consent...

I sought for the key to the greatness and genius of America in her harbors...; in her fertile fields and boundless forests; in her rich mines and vast world commerce; in her public school system and institutions of learning. I sought for it in her democratic Congress and in her matchless Constitution.

Not until I went into the churches of America and heard her pulpits flame with righteousness did I understand the secret of her genius and power. America is great because America is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, America will cease to be great. The safeguard of morality is religion, and morality is the best security of law as well as the surest pledge of freedom. The Americans combine the notions of Christianity and of liberty so intimately in their minds, that it is impossible to make them conceive the one without the other. Christianity is the companion of liberty in all its conflicts -- the cradle of its infancy, and the divine source of its claims.

Tocqueville gives this account of a court case in New York:
While I was in America, a witness, who happened to be called at the assizes of the county of Chester (state of New York), declared that he did not believe in the existence of God or in the immortality of the soul. The judge refused to admit his evidence, on the ground that the witness had destroyed beforehand all confidence of the court in what he was about to say. The newspapers related the fact without any further comment. The New York Spectator of August 23rd, 1831, relates the fact in the following terms:

"The court of common pleas of Chester county (New York), a few days since rejected a witness who declared his disbelief in the existence of God. The presiding judge remarked, that he had not before been aware that there was a man living who did not believe in the existence of God; that this belief constituted the sanction of all testimony in a court of justice: and that he knew of no case in a Christian country, where a witness had been permitted to testify without such belief."

Interesting read.
Ive also found it interesting that all state constitutions mention God or the "divine"

God or the divine is referenced in every state constitution

God or the divine is mentioned at least once in each of the 50 state constitutions and nearly 200 times overall.

www.pewresearch.org

That's because the establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with state established religions. The so called separation of church and state only applied to the federal government. States were free to establish state religions. In fact, half of the states had established state religions at the time the constitution was ratified.

.

That's because the establishment clause was written to prevent the federal government from interfering with state established religions. The so called separation of church and state only applied to the federal government. States were free to establish state religions. In fact, half of the states had established state religions at the time the constitution was ratified.

.
no it was written to insure the separation of church and the state.

so now you know why separation of church and the state was made the law of the land through the establishment clause, 1st amendment and the inclusion of the civil war amendments of equal protection -- for the same reason, the abrogation of separate state rule.

one christianity is bad enough, bing and his 50 state christianities would be the biggest dysfunctional laughing stock constellation the world has ever seen.

 

[Dogbiscuit]

no it was written to insure the separation of church and the state.

so now you know why separation of church and the state was made the law of the land through the establishment clause, 1st amendment and the inclusion of the civil war amendments of equal protection -- for the same reason, the abrogation of separate state rule.

one christianity is bad enough, bing and his 50 state christianities would be the biggest dysfunctional laughing stock constellation the world has ever seen.

I understand that you are responding to ding.
However, I cant help but ask a personal question based on your response.
Do you believe there is a God ?
And your political affiliation ?
Just curious, Thanks

 

[ReinyDays]

Right ... before, government and church were one in the same ... King George III was both Head-of-State and Head-of-Church de jure ... in the United States, these two entities are completely separate ... no church in government, and no government in church ...

The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different.
Hence, you contradicted yourself.

Well without having to type out a long explanation, he said, " in the United States, these two entities are completely separate",
and they are not completely separate. People may want you to believe they are in written documentation only, aka Constitution, but they arent. Why do you think the libs are so concerned about Barretts nomination ?
This in combination with his full context is contradictory, especially when compared to my response of "The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different."
Remember that back when our country was founded, and the Constitution was written, that probably 99.9% of all Americans believed in a God...period. It was just a given back then.
Today, most radical libs want so much to take that away.
They think that God and Politics dont mix, and they do.

I'd like the long explanation of "The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different." ... if you don't mind ...

In the historical context, membership in the Church of England was compulsory in the UK ... folks that wouldn't join were sent to the American Colonies ... and we're still in the tail end of Europe's Wars of Religion, something fresh on our founding fathers minds ... Henry VIII's break with Rome was just 150 years prior ...

Of course Church and Government are separate ... we don't have to register to be a Church, we need not even tell the Government we're a Church, and they have no business inquiring if we are ... and absolutely no, the government can't tell us what to preach ...

 

[alang1216]

Sorry, but I don't believe that politics and religion should be mixed. Both should be kept separate, as they cover 2 different things. Believe what you want to believe, but keep your religion out of my government, as not everyone in this country has the same belief system for religion.

We all live in this country together however, which is why I think that they should be 2 separate things.

So you are alright living in a country, where the government was founded and established with a belief in God, but now you dont want to mix the two ?
Gotcha

Belief in God is not the same thing as religion. Belief in God is personal, religion is cultural. If you want to mix the two expect other religions to try and get in on the act. Sharia Law could become the law in certain areas of the US where Muslims are a majority. There are conflicts in NY where orthodox Jews are a majority. Are you OK with those or is Christianity the only religion that should be mixed with politics?

 

[Dogbiscuit]

I'd like the long explanation of "The founding, establishment, and principles are completely different." ... if you don't mind

Im sorry but this is about as good as I can do,

George III - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The Bible and America’s Government

The Bible and the Symphony Orchestra

www.wayoflife.org

I cant tell you much more than that.
Is it possible that you might be suggesting to me, that what I was taught in high school many years ago was wrong, in the that my history teacher told my class, that most, if not all the men involved with the original draft of the constitution, were religious ?

 

[Dogbiscuit]

Belief in God is not the same thing as religion. Belief in God is personal, religion is cultural. If you want to mix the two expect other religions to try and get in on the act. Sharia Law could become the law in certain areas of the US where Muslims are a majority. There are conflicts in NY where orthodox Jews are a majority. Are you OK with those or is Christianity the only religion that should be mixed with politics?

I will take Christianity for 500 Alex...because, As of the year 2015, Christianity had approximately 2.3 billion adherents out of a worldwide population of about 7.5 billion people. It represents nearly one-third of the world's population and is the largest religion in the world.

Christianity by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not that the link I provided is actually my reason, but I wanted it for possible future reference.
I cant answer your question directly, because I dont remember being taught that our forefathers had so many different beliefs that you mentioned, therefore I cant find them relevant to the topic imo, and my point that I apparently failed at trying to present.
Originally, I posted a video and expressed my beliefs, and now here we are.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[alang1216]

Belief in God is not the same thing as religion. Belief in God is personal, religion is cultural. If you want to mix the two expect other religions to try and get in on the act. Sharia Law could become the law in certain areas of the US where Muslims are a majority. There are conflicts in NY where orthodox Jews are a majority. Are you OK with those or is Christianity the only religion that should be mixed with politics?

I will take Christianity for 500 Alex...because, As of the year 2015, Christianity had approximately 2.3 billion adherents out of a worldwide population of about 7.5 billion people. It represents nearly one-third of the world's population and is the largest religion in the world.

Christianity by country - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Not that the link I provided is actually my reason, but I wanted it for possible future reference.
I cant answer your question directly, because I dont remember being taught that our forefathers had so many different beliefs that you mentioned, therefore I cant find them relevant to the topic imo, and my point that I apparently failed at trying to present.
Originally, I posted a video and expressed my beliefs, and now here we are.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.

One of the ironies of US being a 'Christian' country is the shoddy way Catholics were treated when they started immigrating. As I recall Mormons were not treated any better.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Sorry, but I don't believe that politics and religion should be mixed.

Our Republic, our traditional philosophy of government, is religious in nature. There's no getting around it.

All men are created...endowed by their creator...

Attached is a snip from my collection, and a great book on the topic, if you care to read through it. It's not long. And not intended to debate, just to share.