Politics and Inflation

[Slade3200]

I became a real conservative when the Debt spiraled out of control.
Reaganomics was fine until it wasn't.
Clinton's surplus was a good thing until it was killed by tax cuts.
Medicare will be bankrupt in 2026
SS will be insolvent in 2033
Tax cuts are a fiscal disaster.
The interest on the Debt is $400b now, almost as much as Defense, or Medicaid, and it will explode as interest rates rise. That's real money that is mandatory spending.
We need a "Grace Commission-2" ASAP.

When those interest rates get paid on the debt where are those payments going and what's happening to that money?

 

[kyzr]

Yep, Obama sucked ass, and Trump's numbers are only slightly better. So Obama is Ryan Leaf and Trump is Johnny Manziel...yeah the latter is better than the former but they both suck.
yes, as I said it had been going down for 5 straight years, all Trump did was continue the trend.
Yes, a plant that was there the entire time Trump was POTUS but you do not fucking blame him...why is that? Trump did not have shit built in the US, not even his fucking ties.

The only one we really disagree on is that GM is spending $1b on a new Volt plant in Mexico instead of the US. Trump would have gone to bat for the UAW to get that Volt plant in the US. Xiden doesn't care.
GM Invests More Than $1 Billion In Ramos Arizpe Plant

The fact that the plant was there before Trump was elected goes to my point, that Trump can't get anyone to relocate a functioning factory into the US, but a new factory, or a re-tooled factory he can at least try get that moved here. Its a very slow process.

In Trump's First 30 Months, Manufacturing Up By 314,000 Jobs Over Obama; Which States Are Hot?

In the last 30 months of President Obama’s term, manufacturing employment grew by 185,000 or 1.5%. In President Trump’s first 30 months, manufacturers added 499,000 jobs, expanding by 4.0%. ...some 314,000 more manufacturing jobs were added under Trump than under Obama, a 170% advantage.

www.forbes.com

Democrats and union leaders betrayed working families. Why should the UAW vote for democrats when they don't bring jobs back to the US?

Time 'Shadow Campaign' Story Reveals That Union Leaders Betrayed Working Families in 2020

pjmedia.com

 

[kyzr]

How did the debt do under your god Trump?

Trump added $7T to the Debt because the GOP had the votes to cut taxes. I'm not a fan of adding to the Debt, that said, how much will Xiden's $5.5T Infrastructure Bills add to the Debt?

 

[Slade3200]

Trump added $7T to the Debt because the GOP had the votes to cut taxes. I'm not a fan of adding to the Debt, that said, how much will Xiden's $5.5T Infrastructure Bills add to the Debt?

The infrastructure bills impact on the debt will depend on what they invest in. Has there been a budget analysis of it yet?

 

[kyzr]

When those interest rates get paid on the debt where are those payments going and what's happening to that money?

Those interest payments on the Debt go all over the world, but all over the US too, especially the Fed:

Who Owns the US National Debt?

The majority of the U.S. national debt is owned by Social Security, the Federal Reserve, and foreign investors. Learn how that impacts the economy and you.

www.thebalance.com

• Foreign: $7.07 trillion (in September 2020, Japan owned $1.28 trillion and China owned $1.06 trillion of U.S. debt, which is more than a third of foreign holdings)
• Federal Reserve and government: $10.81 trillion (December 2020)
• Mutual funds: $3.5 trillion
• State and local governments, including their pension funds: $1.09 trillion
• Private pension funds: $784 billion
• Insurance companies: $253 billion
• U.S. savings bonds: $147 billion (December 2020)
• Other holders, including individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, banks, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors: $2.28 trillion

 

[kyzr]

The infrastructure bills impact on the debt will depend on what they invest in. Has there been a budget analysis of it yet?

Not that I know of, because they are still whittling them down to an acceptable number.

 

[DBA]

Some of the wealthiest Americans shouldn't be permitted to pay zero tax.

Honest positions from both sides of the debate can further the debate. Your 'part lies' are no better than my 'part lies'.

I'm assuming you understand that you are lying?

You were at least smart enough to understand that spending brings inflation! Unfortunately you couldn't continue the argument and deal with the facts.

No, I am not lying. Agreed that some of the wealthiest don't pay much tax due to deductions and and team's of accountants but that doesn't change the fact that the top 10% pay the majority of the taxes. What it actually means is that people that make $158+ per year minus the ultra wealthy are bearing the brunt of the tax burden. The Democrats want to penalize those that make 400k+ but the reality is these aren't those that are getting the massive tax breaks. You don't have a team of accountants nor are you living off of capital gains making 400k/yr. The ultra wealthy(10s of millions), many of whom are Democrats, will continue to pay very little while those making 400k+800k will foot the bill. Democrats love to raise taxes as long as they don't have to pay them.

 

[DBA]

I think the rate is pretty fair for the 400K+... The majority of raises should come from the 1M+ Those are the ones that most significantly horde the wealth... It needs to redistribute and recirculate or they end up owning everything and we end up in corporate socialism. You don't want that do you?

With this special situation where Trillions were injected into the economy then yes that should come from the top where the stimulus ultimately ends up. Look how much money the top earns made off the pandemic. It is staggering. We have a trickle up economic system where the top earns accumulate more wealth than they spend. How would you propose the situation be handled?

Spend less money for starters. Stop paying people to stay home. Let them keep more of the money they earn vs taking it from them and losing it in an inefficient government bureaucracy that rewards laziness. I am fine with making the capital gains tax be progressive, but it would be based on the amount of gains, not a person's income. For example, a person making 400k/yr would pay the same percentage of long and short term capital gain's taxes on a $5,000 gain than a person making 1M.

 

[Slade3200]

Those interest payments on the Debt go all over the world, but all over the US too, especially the Fed:

Who Owns the US National Debt?

The majority of the U.S. national debt is owned by Social Security, the Federal Reserve, and foreign investors. Learn how that impacts the economy and you.

www.thebalance.com

• Foreign: $7.07 trillion (in September 2020, Japan owned $1.28 trillion and China owned $1.06 trillion of U.S. debt, which is more than a third of foreign holdings)
• Federal Reserve and government: $10.81 trillion (December 2020)
• Mutual funds: $3.5 trillion
• State and local governments, including their pension funds: $1.09 trillion
• Private pension funds: $784 billion
• Insurance companies: $253 billion
• U.S. savings bonds: $147 billion (December 2020)
• Other holders, including individuals, government-sponsored enterprises, brokers and dealers, banks, bank personal trusts and estates, corporate and non-corporate businesses, and other investors: $2.28 trillion

Nice, thank you... And when that money gets borrowed and spent do you have a sense about what kind of ROI it produces?

 

[Slade3200]

Not that I know of, because they are still whittling them down to an acceptable number.

It will be interesting to see that analysis once they lock down the bill and get it reviewed... Then we will have a better sense of how it will impact our debt and economy

 

[Mac1958]

It will be interesting to see that analysis once they lock down the bill and get it reviewed... Then we will have a better sense of how it will impact our debt and economy

Yep! All this drama and Kabuki Theater mean nothing. As usual. All that matters is what actually happens.

Assumptions, projections and extrapolations based on thin air is a Great American Pastime.

 

[Donald H]

No, I am not lying. Agreed that some of the wealthiest don't pay much tax due to deductions and and team's of accountants but that doesn't change the fact that the top 10% pay the majority of the taxes. What it actually means is that people that make $158+ per year minus the ultra wealthy are bearing the brunt of the tax burden. The Democrats want to penalize those that make 400k+ but the reality is these aren't those that are getting the massive tax breaks. You don't have a team of accountants nor are you living off of capital gains making 400k/yr. The ultra wealthy(10s of millions), many of whom are Democrats, will continue to pay very little while those making 400k+800k will foot the bill. Democrats love to raise taxes as long as they don't have to pay them.

Yeah, you have it close to right, even though I had to interpret your $158+ as meaning something else.

And I'll just suppose your contradiction was meant to make some other point: Or maybe you can try to say that the ultra wealthy can't be included in the top 10%??

the fact that the top 10% pay the majority of the taxes.

and

The ultra wealthy(10s of millions), many of whom are Democrats, will continue to pay very little ..............

You too allow your gums to start flapping about democrats before your brain has kicked in.

 

[Slade3200]

Spend less money for starters. Stop paying people to stay home. Let them keep more of the money they earn vs taking it from them and losing it in an inefficient government bureaucracy that rewards laziness. I am fine with making the capital gains tax be progressive, but it would be based on the amount of gains, not a person's income. For example, a person making 400k/yr would pay the same percentage of long and short term capital gain's taxes on a $5,000 gain than a person making 1M.

I agree that gains should be taxed... if an individual spends their money and it circulates through the economy then it will be taxed through that journey and will be serving its purpose. I don't believe the system is or should be set up to simply pay people to stay home thats an odd way of phrasing it that I don't find accurate. I do think money should be spent on the poor, sick and elderly who can't take care of themselves. They should be given education, resources and care to improve their lives.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Trump added $7T to the Debt because...

This is always the problem, both sides always give their side a "because".

 

[kyzr]

Nice, thank you... And when that money gets borrowed and spent do you have a sense about what kind of ROI it produces?

Probably a negative ROI since inflation is higher than the interest rate they get.
They technically won't lose money "principle" but their spending/buying power is less.

 

[kyzr]

This is always the problem, both sides always give their side a "because".

Was my "because" right or wrong?
Did the Trump tax cuts cause/contribute to the deficit that was added to the Debt?
Or was the deficit spending due to covid and the total US shutdown a cause as well?

 

[Slade3200]

Probably a negative ROI since inflation is higher than the interest rate they get.
They technically won't lose money "principle" but their spending/buying power is less.

Are you considering the the returns that come from taxing the spent money as it changes hands? Lets say $100 is given to a welfare recipient as a food stamp. They spend it at a grocery store and sales tax is taken. Then the store uses it to pay their cashier where taxes are paid on the stores profit and employment. Then the employee who receives the paycheck pays income tax on it and uses it to pay their rent. The landlord then pays income tax on the the payment and uses it to buy supplies for their building where they then pay sales tax on the supplies and the cycle continues. Do you ever look at government spending in this way and make the appropriate ROI calculations?

 

[kyzr]

Are you considering the the returns that come from taxing the spent money as it changes hands? Lets say $100 is given to a welfare recipient as a food stamp. They spend it at a grocery store and sales tax is taken. Then the store uses it to pay their cashier where taxes are paid on the stores profit and employment. Then the employee who receives the paycheck pays income tax on it and uses it to pay their rent. The landlord then pays income tax on the the payment and uses it to buy supplies for their building where they then pay sales tax on the supplies and the cycle continues. Do you ever look at government spending in this way and make the appropriate ROI calculations?

We're discussing the $27T of US Debt being held by the Fed, pensions, and foreign governments, not welfare recipients.
The return on US Debt is about 1.5%
Inflation is 2% and headed upward.
When the Fed prints money how does that affect everyone's buying power?
When the government raises taxes to pay the interest or principle on the Debt, that takes money out of the economy. Because that "investment" lost value due to inflation.

 

[buckeye45_73]

The cause for recent inflation is the inability of the Covid-19 disrupted supply chains and laborforce from meeting the market demand.

You say you talked about that for a long time and I say you are full of shit.

Yeah we should fire them all.....no vaccine no shipping!!!!!

 

[buckeye45_73]

If the government flooding the economy with $5.5T will cause massive inflation, then the solution would be to pull an equal amount of money out of the economy by taxing the wealthy.

Sure, do that.....have the Ds soak the rich......like Silicon Valley will let them