Poland: WW II was caused by the two totalitarian powers : Stalinist Soviet Union and Nazi Germany

[Litwin]

Poland: WW II was caused by the two totalitarian powers : Stalinist Soviet Union and Nazi Germany . great news, I just wonder how the forum´s sralinits here will troll down this news ...




"Sejm against manipulation and deceit of history by politicians of the Russian Federation. Resolution of the Chamber
The Seym of the Republic of Poland condemns the provocative and untrue statements of representatives of the highest authorities of the Russian Federation trying to blame Poland for the outbreak of World War II. The greatness of the nation and relations between states cannot be built on lies and falsifying history, "reads the resolution adopted on Thursday by acclamation. In this way, MPs opposed the manipulation of facts and hypocrisy of history by politicians of the Russian Federation in order to discredit Poland and deteriorate Russian-Polish relations.

The document reminded that the outbreak of World War II was caused by the two totalitarian powers of the time: Nazi Germany and the Stalinist Soviet Union, and after the conclusion of the infamous Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact in August 23, 1939, the first victims of both totalitarian regimes were Poland and the countries of Central and Eastern Europe . "The war caused the deaths of tens of millions of people, the creation of Nazi concentration camps and the Holocaust in Europe - one of the greatest crimes in the history of humanity," says the resolution.

The resolution emphasized that the Seym of the Republic of Poland refused to return to imperial counterfeiting, which would undo the historical dialogue of the Russian authorities with other nations. "The Seym of the Republic of Poland pays homage to the victims of Nazi and Soviet totalitarianism and expresses the desire that the history of their martyrdom should never be falsified and treated instrumentally. The Sejm of the Republic of Poland calls for joint reflection on the principles of building international relations, which should be the basis for mutual respect, partnership and good neighborliness, "stressed in the adopted document.
"

Sejm przeciw manipulacji i zakłamywaniu historii przez polityków Federacji Rosyjskiej. Uchwała Izby

 

[Litwin]

 

[Litwin]

 

[Litwin]

 

[Sbiker]

So, it means, USA were ally of totalitarian aggressor during WWII, helped to this aggressor by lend-lease program during all war, while Japan just tried to free Poland?

Do the Poland plan to demand reparations from USA for the war against Japan?

 

[jwoodie]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

 

[Sbiker]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

"More murderous" - it's because Stalin defended Russia and didn't let to "civilized countries" to plunder and destroy it? )

Yes, USSR wanted to recover some territories and did it. But talking about "USSR invasion in Poland" is ridiculous, because:

1. USSR forces crossed the border at 17th of September, right after Poland government officially capitulated. Are they invaded in Poland? I'm not sure - Poland didn't existed at this moment. It was an operation at potencially German territory and against German, what's the matter?
2. USSR forced returned territories at the east of Curzon Line - recognized by all world society and Antanta/Britain in particular as ethnically Russian territories.

So, USSR just ratified the solution of world society and started the war with "less murderous dictator", murdered to that moment a several million jews in Holocaust... Where I could be wrong, heh?

 

[Syriusly]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

"More murderous" - it's because Stalin defended Russia and didn't let to "civilized countries" to plunder and destroy it? )

Yes, USSR wanted to recover some territories and did it. But talking about "USSR invasion in Poland" is ridiculous, because:

1. USSR forces crossed the border at 17th of September, right after Poland government officially capitulated. Are they invaded in Poland? I'm not sure - Poland didn't existed at this moment. It was an operation at potencially German territory and against German, what's the matter?
2. USSR forced returned territories at the east of Curzon Line - recognized by all world society and Antanta/Britain in particular as ethnically Russian territories.

So, USSR just ratified the solution of world society and started the war with "less murderous dictator", murdered to that moment a several million jews in Holocaust... Where I could be wrong, heh?

Stalin murdered millions of Soviet citizens- along with millions of Poles, and other nationalities.
Invasion of Poland, Fall 1939
Warsaw surrendered to the Germans on September 27, 1939. Britain and France, standing by their guarantee of Poland's border, had declared war on Germany on September 3, 1939. The Soviet Union invaded eastern Poland on September 17, 1939. The last resistance ended on October 6.

But I disagree with the OP in part because he left out the totalitarian governments of Italy and Japan.

 

[Correll]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

"More murderous" - it's because Stalin defended Russia and didn't let to "civilized countries" to plunder and destroy it? )

Yes, USSR wanted to recover some territories and did it. But talking about "USSR invasion in Poland" is ridiculous, because:

1. USSR forces crossed the border at 17th of September, right after Poland government officially capitulated. Are they invaded in Poland? I'm not sure - Poland didn't existed at this moment. It was an operation at potencially German territory and against German, what's the matter?
2. USSR forced returned territories at the east of Curzon Line - recognized by all world society and Antanta/Britain in particular as ethnically Russian territories.

So, USSR just ratified the solution of world society and started the war with "less murderous dictator", murdered to that moment a several million jews in Holocaust... Where I could be wrong, heh?

Soviet and Nazis in occupied Poland, socializing after joint victory parade.

German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk - Axis History Forum

 

[harmonica]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

1. the US had almost 3 times the warmaking potential of Germany
Grim Economic Realities
2. the US and UK gained AIR and naval supremacy
3. the US and UK had over twice the population
4. Germany was also fighting partisans ALL over - France, Balkans, etc etc
5. more people were killed with conventional bombing than the atomic bombs
Bombing of Tokyo - Wikipedia
6. if they don't fight Russia, they don't have the Panther/etc tanks = the Sherman is just about even with the PIV = advantage US
SdKfz 171 Panzer V / Panther Medium Tank - Nazi Germany

...Germany is not going to get POL = war over..doesn't matter how many troops/etc they have

 

[Syriusly]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

1. the US had almost 3 times the warmaking potential of Germany
Grim Economic Realities
2. the US and UK gained AIR and naval supremacy
3. the US and UK had over twice the population
4. Germany was also fighting partisans ALL over - France, Balkans, etc etc
5. more people were killed with conventional bombing than the atomic bombs
Bombing of Tokyo - Wikipedia
6. if they don't fight Russia, they don't have the Panther/etc tanks = the Sherman is just about even with the PIV = adavantage US

...Germany is not going to get POL = war over..doesn't matter how many troops/etc they have

While I agree that the Panther was developed as a reaction to the T-34, it is a huge assumption that the Germans would not have figured that out even without invading the Soviet Union.

Hitler's decision to invade the Soviet Union was his biggest strategic mistake. Declaring war on the U.S. was his second biggest strategic mistake. If Hitler had not declared war on the U.S., Roosevelt would have been forced to put most of our resources into the Pacific immediately.

 

[Sbiker]

Stalin murdered millions of Soviet citizens-

How many millions? Which documents could prove it?

along with millions of Poles

How many millions? Poland loss about 60 thousands soldiers in 1939 year, mostly at west front... Where the millions, killed by Stalin?

and other nationalities.

Which else nationalities we have to discuss?
It's interesting, but I never find any photo of "JOINT" parade of Soviet and Nazi armies in Brest-Litovsk. Yes - there are a lot of photo of marching Wiermacht and Soviet and Nazi soldiers, standing together.. Where the photo, where they _marching_ together at parade??? With a lot photo of other types of interaction?

 

[jwoodie]

Without the Eastern Front occupying most of the German Army, D-Day would have been impossible.

 

[Votto]

Without the Eastern Front occupying most of the German Army, D-Day would have been impossible.

 

[jwoodie]

Without the Eastern Front occupying most of the German Army, D-Day would have been impossible.

Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union.

The B-36 bomber was developed to bomb Germany from North America.

 

[rightwinger]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

"More murderous" - it's because Stalin defended Russia and didn't let to "civilized countries" to plunder and destroy it? )

Yes, USSR wanted to recover some territories and did it. But talking about "USSR invasion in Poland" is ridiculous, because:

1. USSR forces crossed the border at 17th of September, right after Poland government officially capitulated. Are they invaded in Poland? I'm not sure - Poland didn't existed at this moment. It was an operation at potencially German territory and against German, what's the matter?
2. USSR forced returned territories at the east of Curzon Line - recognized by all world society and Antanta/Britain in particular as ethnically Russian territories.

So, USSR just ratified the solution of world society and started the war with "less murderous dictator", murdered to that moment a several million jews in Holocaust... Where I could be wrong, heh?

Soviet and Nazis in occupied Poland, socializing after joint victory parade.

German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk - Axis History Forum

How did that work out?

 

[Sbiker]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

"More murderous" - it's because Stalin defended Russia and didn't let to "civilized countries" to plunder and destroy it? )

Yes, USSR wanted to recover some territories and did it. But talking about "USSR invasion in Poland" is ridiculous, because:

1. USSR forces crossed the border at 17th of September, right after Poland government officially capitulated. Are they invaded in Poland? I'm not sure - Poland didn't existed at this moment. It was an operation at potencially German territory and against German, what's the matter?
2. USSR forced returned territories at the east of Curzon Line - recognized by all world society and Antanta/Britain in particular as ethnically Russian territories.

So, USSR just ratified the solution of world society and started the war with "less murderous dictator", murdered to that moment a several million jews in Holocaust... Where I could be wrong, heh?

Soviet and Nazis in occupied Poland, socializing after joint victory parade.

German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk - Axis History Forum

How did that work out?

After Munich agreement USSR was forced to make separate peace agreement with Germany as long, as possible to catch up time and finish industrialization and arming... And it didn't have enough about year or two to meet war prepared...

 

[Litwin]

Without the Eastern Front occupying most of the German Army, D-Day would have been impossible.

its a stalinists myth, USA had 50% world GDP and 95% of world high tech GDP in 1945. Germany had 0 chance much like Koba´s ussr

 

[Correll]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

"More murderous" - it's because Stalin defended Russia and didn't let to "civilized countries" to plunder and destroy it? )

Yes, USSR wanted to recover some territories and did it. But talking about "USSR invasion in Poland" is ridiculous, because:

1. USSR forces crossed the border at 17th of September, right after Poland government officially capitulated. Are they invaded in Poland? I'm not sure - Poland didn't existed at this moment. It was an operation at potencially German territory and against German, what's the matter?
2. USSR forced returned territories at the east of Curzon Line - recognized by all world society and Antanta/Britain in particular as ethnically Russian territories.

So, USSR just ratified the solution of world society and started the war with "less murderous dictator", murdered to that moment a several million jews in Holocaust... Where I could be wrong, heh?

Soviet and Nazis in occupied Poland, socializing after joint victory parade.

German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk - Axis History Forum

How did that work out?

Terribly, for everyone involved.

 

[Litwin]

Good OP. Until the atomic bomb, the US and UK could not have defeated Germany without the Soviet Union. That being said, Stalin was as (or more) murderous a dictator than Hitler. Regarding Poland, both Germany and the Soviet Union wanted to recover territories they had lost due to WW1. The Poles' recalcitrance on giving Germany territorial access to its East Prussia province gave Hitler an historical argument for invading Poland. Just as with Belgium before WW1, the Brits made empty promises to defend Poland and then used that as an excuse to declare war on Germany. Hitler subsequently sealed his (and Eastern Europe's) fate by attacking the Soviet Union and then declaring war on the United States.

"More murderous" - it's because Stalin defended Russia and didn't let to "civilized countries" to plunder and destroy it? )

Yes, USSR wanted to recover some territories and did it. But talking about "USSR invasion in Poland" is ridiculous, because:

1. USSR forces crossed the border at 17th of September, right after Poland government officially capitulated. Are they invaded in Poland? I'm not sure - Poland didn't existed at this moment. It was an operation at potencially German territory and against German, what's the matter?
2. USSR forced returned territories at the east of Curzon Line - recognized by all world society and Antanta/Britain in particular as ethnically Russian territories.

So, USSR just ratified the solution of world society and started the war with "less murderous dictator", murdered to that moment a several million jews in Holocaust... Where I could be wrong, heh?

Soviet and Nazis in occupied Poland, socializing after joint victory parade.

German–Soviet military parade in Brest-Litovsk - Axis History Forum

maps

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact - Wikipedia