CDZ Please explain to me something...

[Crepitus]

I blame the republican attack on education. An uneducated populace is easier to control.

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. The have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

 

[baum]

I am having trouble understanding where we (as the people and voters) made a mistake. While i have my own conclusion about that, I would like to hear some opinions first.

In most democracies we see a rise of extremists on the left and right (more obvious in most countries is the right wing). On the same time we have had a peaceful period of time for several decades, the living standards rise since ww2 and yet, everybody seems to be unhappy. Why is that the case?
And a more specific question is, how can 30-40 percent of US citizens blindly stand behind this president? I do not blame them specifically as I am starting to believe this can happen anywhere else as well (i am from germany). Lets say that all of his political ideas (tariffs, walls, health care, taxes, etc.) would make sense to you, does it bias his rethoric? Apart from white male supremecists i dont think there is a group that he didnt attack. Do you really believe he is the only one who could improve your country? Why wouldnt a "normal" politican be able to do it without all the lies?

My simple ideas i currently have are education and lobbyism. But given the fact that the leading political party changed over the last decades quite often in all those democracies, why did we end up being so uneducated, that a lot of us are going extreme as the only solution? Why is belief more important than facts? When did we stopped checking what people say? Did this start with social media? Is social media the modern radio, that empowered Hitler? And why do we allow lobbys to write laws for the elected government to pass? Why can't they formulate their own ideas and write them into a law? I agree, that involved parties should be heard and their opinions taken into account into an decision, but to what extent?

Where will this development lead to? Back to markantilism? Back to nationalism and wars? To some new and better future? if that is the case, how is that accomplished?

First off, the US isn't a "Democracy". We're a constitutional republic. Secondly, please don't confuse "extremism" with nationalism, a love of country, God, and traditional values of marriage and family.

"Extremism" is what murders unborn babies in the womb, denies people their First Amendment constitutional right of free speech and Second Amendment right to protect themselves and their family.

"Extremism" is what causes people to attempt a political assassination on a baseball field, or welcome thousands of illegal alien murderers, drug dealers, pedophiles, and sex offenders into this country, or even try to give them the "right" to vote in our elections.

Agreed about the terminology. English just isnt my first language. I disagree with nationalism equals "love of country, god and traditonal values." Being a conservative myself, I see a difference between conservatism and nationalism. In the good meaning, nationalism is indeed the love of country, which has absolutely nothing to do with god and religion. Unfortunately "extremists" often take over conservative parties and values for their own agenda. While i differ on most things with republicans i have no problem with their party in general. I have a problem with opportunists like mr. Trump that have no values at all but their own personal gain. You find the same people in eihter party, group and nation if you look around.
Extremism is by no way to welcome immigrants. I somehow doubt you are a native american, so you are an immigrant yourself. Most people are ... Not just in the US. In all countries but the US it also not very extreme to discuss "the right to defend yourself". Nobody denies that you have that right, but in a working (or perfect) society, i would need no weapon, because differences could be settled otherwise.

I take you are a conservative who values traditional values. I agree on that. I also agree that immigrants are not just good people, they are diverse like an other group and they also bring a lot of problems to a country that welcomes them. But it is also a traditional value to offer them help. That help doesnt mean they should vote, get money or thelike, but to let them die in the mediterrainian sea, or deport their children, doesnt seem like a good solution as well.

 

[JGalt]

The extremists don't elect people, they try to influence but in the end Average Joe and Josephine America is who elects.

You saw that in 2916...a silent majority decided the election.

25% is by no definition a "majority" of anything.

When you discount the fraudulent Democrat votes including illegals, we won the popular vote too.

 

[pismoe]

why NOW and not 20 - 30 years ago . Mostly because TRUMP had not arrived and all the so called 'Republican Conservatives' are liars for those last 20 - 30 years since 'reagans amnesty' . Then TRUMP arrives and talks the talk so we Deplorables that elected Trump might as well vote for and elect him Baum .

 

[dblack]

I blame the republican attack on education. An uneducated populace is easier to control.

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. They have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

They? I thought you were speaking generally.

So, who do you think should decide how your children are educated?

 

[Pogo]

The extremists don't elect people, they try to influence but in the end Average Joe and Josephine America is who elects.

You saw that in 2916...a silent majority decided the election.

25% is by no definition a "majority" of anything.

When you discount the fraudulent Democrat votes including illegals, we won the popular vote too.

Which of course you have what we call "evidence" for.

Except maybe not.

Must be thrilling to live in a fantasy world where you just make it up as you go.

 

[JGalt]

I am having trouble understanding where we (as the people and voters) made a mistake. While i have my own conclusion about that, I would like to hear some opinions first.

In most democracies we see a rise of extremists on the left and right (more obvious in most countries is the right wing). On the same time we have had a peaceful period of time for several decades, the living standards rise since ww2 and yet, everybody seems to be unhappy. Why is that the case?
And a more specific question is, how can 30-40 percent of US citizens blindly stand behind this president? I do not blame them specifically as I am starting to believe this can happen anywhere else as well (i am from germany). Lets say that all of his political ideas (tariffs, walls, health care, taxes, etc.) would make sense to you, does it bias his rethoric? Apart from white male supremecists i dont think there is a group that he didnt attack. Do you really believe he is the only one who could improve your country? Why wouldnt a "normal" politican be able to do it without all the lies?

My simple ideas i currently have are education and lobbyism. But given the fact that the leading political party changed over the last decades quite often in all those democracies, why did we end up being so uneducated, that a lot of us are going extreme as the only solution? Why is belief more important than facts? When did we stopped checking what people say? Did this start with social media? Is social media the modern radio, that empowered Hitler? And why do we allow lobbys to write laws for the elected government to pass? Why can't they formulate their own ideas and write them into a law? I agree, that involved parties should be heard and their opinions taken into account into an decision, but to what extent?

Where will this development lead to? Back to markantilism? Back to nationalism and wars? To some new and better future? if that is the case, how is that accomplished?

First off, the US isn't a "Democracy". We're a constitutional republic. Secondly, please don't confuse "extremism" with nationalism, a love of country, God, and traditional values of marriage and family.

"Extremism" is what murders unborn babies in the womb, denies people their First Amendment constitutional right of free speech and Second Amendment right to protect themselves and their family.

"Extremism" is what causes people to attempt a political assassination on a baseball field, or welcome thousands of illegal alien murderers, drug dealers, pedophiles, and sex offenders into this country, or even try to give them the "right" to vote in our elections.

Agreed about the terminology. English just isnt my first language. I disagree with nationalism equals "love of country, god and traditonal values." Being a conservative myself, I see a difference between conservatism and nationalism. In the good meaning, nationalism is indeed the love of country, which has absolutely nothing to do with god and religion. Unfortunately "extremists" often take over conservative parties and values for their own agenda. While i differ on most things with republicans i have no problem with their party in general. I have a problem with opportunists like mr. Trump that have no values at all but their own personal gain. You find the same people in eihter party, group and nation if you look around.
Extremism is by no way to welcome immigrants. I somehow doubt you are a native american, so you are an immigrant yourself. Most people are ... Not just in the US. In all countries but the US it also not very extreme to discuss "the right to defend yourself". Nobody denies that you have that right, but in a working (or perfect) society, i would need no weapon, because differences could be settled otherwise.

I take you are a conservative who values traditional values. I agree on that. I also agree that immigrants are not just good people, they are diverse like an other group and they also bring a lot of problems to a country that welcomes them. But it is also a traditional value to offer them help. That help doesnt mean they should vote, get money or thelike, but to let them die in the mediterrainian sea, or deport their children, doesnt seem like a good solution as well.

Ask me how I know that your German media is very left-wing biased.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

I am having trouble understanding where we (as the people and voters) made a mistake. While i have my own conclusion about that, I would like to hear some opinions first.

In most democracies we see a rise of extremists on the left and right (more obvious in most countries is the right wing). On the same time we have had a peaceful period of time for several decades, the living standards rise since ww2 and yet, everybody seems to be unhappy. Why is that the case?
And a more specific question is, how can 30-40 percent of US citizens blindly stand behind this president? I do not blame them specifically as I am starting to believe this can happen anywhere else as well (i am from germany). Lets say that all of his political ideas (tariffs, walls, health care, taxes, etc.) would make sense to you, does it bias his rethoric? Apart from white male supremecists i dont think there is a group that he didnt attack. Do you really believe he is the only one who could improve your country? Why wouldnt a "normal" politican be able to do it without all the lies?

My simple ideas i currently have are education and lobbyism. But given the fact that the leading political party changed over the last decades quite often in all those democracies, why did we end up being so uneducated, that a lot of us are going extreme as the only solution? Why is belief more important than facts? When did we stopped checking what people say? Did this start with social media? Is social media the modern radio, that empowered Hitler? And why do we allow lobbys to write laws for the elected government to pass? Why can't they formulate their own ideas and write them into a law? I agree, that involved parties should be heard and their opinions taken into account into an decision, but to what extent?

Where will this development lead to? Back to markantilism? Back to nationalism and wars? To some new and better future? if that is the case, how is that accomplished?

To understand that there is a lot of false news, false posting that people just do not fall for and don't answer because they are Progressive lead in for Progressive out lets on a posting board. Psttt don't tell anyone.

 

[baum]

I blame the republican attack on education. An uneducated populace is easier to control.

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. The have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

I doubt it is an issue of party. I think it lies in human nature. Elite groups and political leaders are part of them dont like to be bothered with everyday problems (because they cant solve them), therefore they create artifical problems and solve those. While it is not as obvious, the democrats like to "control" as well... Its part of the job description for a political leader. And i can speak for germany that we have the same problem, that public schools are getting worse and worse. Unfortuantely the reasons here are different and obvious and could be solved easily, but it would costs jobs in politics... so not going to happen before germany is close to bankrupcy

 

[baum]

I am having trouble understanding where we (as the people and voters) made a mistake. While i have my own conclusion about that, I would like to hear some opinions first.

In most democracies we see a rise of extremists on the left and right (more obvious in most countries is the right wing). On the same time we have had a peaceful period of time for several decades, the living standards rise since ww2 and yet, everybody seems to be unhappy. Why is that the case?
And a more specific question is, how can 30-40 percent of US citizens blindly stand behind this president? I do not blame them specifically as I am starting to believe this can happen anywhere else as well (i am from germany). Lets say that all of his political ideas (tariffs, walls, health care, taxes, etc.) would make sense to you, does it bias his rethoric? Apart from white male supremecists i dont think there is a group that he didnt attack. Do you really believe he is the only one who could improve your country? Why wouldnt a "normal" politican be able to do it without all the lies?

My simple ideas i currently have are education and lobbyism. But given the fact that the leading political party changed over the last decades quite often in all those democracies, why did we end up being so uneducated, that a lot of us are going extreme as the only solution? Why is belief more important than facts? When did we stopped checking what people say? Did this start with social media? Is social media the modern radio, that empowered Hitler? And why do we allow lobbys to write laws for the elected government to pass? Why can't they formulate their own ideas and write them into a law? I agree, that involved parties should be heard and their opinions taken into account into an decision, but to what extent?

Where will this development lead to? Back to markantilism? Back to nationalism and wars? To some new and better future? if that is the case, how is that accomplished?

First off, the US isn't a "Democracy". We're a constitutional republic. Secondly, please don't confuse "extremism" with nationalism, a love of country, God, and traditional values of marriage and family.

"Extremism" is what murders unborn babies in the womb, denies people their First Amendment constitutional right of free speech and Second Amendment right to protect themselves and their family.

"Extremism" is what causes people to attempt a political assassination on a baseball field, or welcome thousands of illegal alien murderers, drug dealers, pedophiles, and sex offenders into this country, or even try to give them the "right" to vote in our elections.

Agreed about the terminology. English just isnt my first language. I disagree with nationalism equals "love of country, god and traditonal values." Being a conservative myself, I see a difference between conservatism and nationalism. In the good meaning, nationalism is indeed the love of country, which has absolutely nothing to do with god and religion. Unfortunately "extremists" often take over conservative parties and values for their own agenda. While i differ on most things with republicans i have no problem with their party in general. I have a problem with opportunists like mr. Trump that have no values at all but their own personal gain. You find the same people in eihter party, group and nation if you look around.
Extremism is by no way to welcome immigrants. I somehow doubt you are a native american, so you are an immigrant yourself. Most people are ... Not just in the US. In all countries but the US it also not very extreme to discuss "the right to defend yourself". Nobody denies that you have that right, but in a working (or perfect) society, i would need no weapon, because differences could be settled otherwise.

I take you are a conservative who values traditional values. I agree on that. I also agree that immigrants are not just good people, they are diverse like an other group and they also bring a lot of problems to a country that welcomes them. But it is also a traditional value to offer them help. That help doesnt mean they should vote, get money or thelike, but to let them die in the mediterrainian sea, or deport their children, doesnt seem like a good solution as well.

Ask me how I know that your German media is very left-wing biased.

Thats not news. More papers are owned by SPD (center-left) than CDU (center-right). But that doesnt change facts.

 

[baum]

I am having trouble understanding where we (as the people and voters) made a mistake. While i have my own conclusion about that, I would like to hear some opinions first.

In most democracies we see a rise of extremists on the left and right (more obvious in most countries is the right wing). On the same time we have had a peaceful period of time for several decades, the living standards rise since ww2 and yet, everybody seems to be unhappy. Why is that the case?
And a more specific question is, how can 30-40 percent of US citizens blindly stand behind this president? I do not blame them specifically as I am starting to believe this can happen anywhere else as well (i am from germany). Lets say that all of his political ideas (tariffs, walls, health care, taxes, etc.) would make sense to you, does it bias his rethoric? Apart from white male supremecists i dont think there is a group that he didnt attack. Do you really believe he is the only one who could improve your country? Why wouldnt a "normal" politican be able to do it without all the lies?

My simple ideas i currently have are education and lobbyism. But given the fact that the leading political party changed over the last decades quite often in all those democracies, why did we end up being so uneducated, that a lot of us are going extreme as the only solution? Why is belief more important than facts? When did we stopped checking what people say? Did this start with social media? Is social media the modern radio, that empowered Hitler? And why do we allow lobbys to write laws for the elected government to pass? Why can't they formulate their own ideas and write them into a law? I agree, that involved parties should be heard and their opinions taken into account into an decision, but to what extent?

Where will this development lead to? Back to markantilism? Back to nationalism and wars? To some new and better future? if that is the case, how is that accomplished?

To understand that there is a lot of false news, false posting that people just do not fall for and don't answer because they are Progressive lead in for Progressive out lets on a posting board. Psttt don't tell anyone.

Where is the connection? Media has always been influencing opinions. Why is it now different?

 

[JGalt]

I blame the republican attack on education. An uneducated populace is easier to control.

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. The have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

I doubt it is an issue of party. I think it lies in human nature. Elite groups and political leaders are part of them dont like to be bothered with everyday problems (because they cant solve them), therefore they create artifical problems and solve those. While it is not as obvious, the democrats like to "control" as well... Its part of the job description for a political leader. And i can speak for germany that we have the same problem, that public schools are getting worse and worse. Unfortuantely the reasons here are different and obvious and could be solved easily, but it would costs jobs in politics... so not going to happen before germany is close to bankrupcy

Look at Poland: They have been swept up by what the leftist media is calling "extremism". All because they don't want to be part of the EU, they don't want their borders flooded with Middle Eastern immigrants, many of whom are criminals, rapists, murderers, and terrorists, and they believe in a Christian God, and Polish heritage and Polish language.

Personally, I don't find that to be "extreme". God bless 'em and good luck. It's their country and they are looking out for themselves. President Trump is also doing the same thing for America. The leftists in this country are screaming at the sky and protesting against him, but they will eventually get over it.

 

[Pogo]

I blame the republican attack on education. An uneducated populace is easier to control.

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. The have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

I doubt it is an issue of party. I think it lies in human nature. Elite groups and political leaders are part of them dont like to be bothered with everyday problems (because they cant solve them), therefore they create artifical problems and solve those. While it is not as obvious, the democrats like to "control" as well... Its part of the job description for a political leader. And i can speak for germany that we have the same problem, that public schools are getting worse and worse. Unfortuantely the reasons here are different and obvious and could be solved easily, but it would costs jobs in politics... so not going to happen before germany is close to bankrupcy

Look at Poland: They have bee swept up by what the leftist media is calling "extremism". All because they don't want to be part of the EU, they don't want their borders flooded with Middle Eastern immigrants, many of whom are criminals, rapists, murderers, and terrorists, and they believe in a Christian God, and Polish heritage and Polish language.

Personally, I don't find that to be "extreme". God bless 'em and good luck. It's their country and they are looking out for themselves. President Trump is also doing the same thing for America. The leftists in this country are screaming at the sky and protesting against him, but they will eventually get over it.

Why would terrorists be fleeing terrorism? What would be the point?

You parrots never figure this shit out. It's not a complex thing.

 

[JGalt]

I blame the republican attack on education. An uneducated populace is easier to control.

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. The have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

I doubt it is an issue of party. I think it lies in human nature. Elite groups and political leaders are part of them dont like to be bothered with everyday problems (because they cant solve them), therefore they create artifical problems and solve those. While it is not as obvious, the democrats like to "control" as well... Its part of the job description for a political leader. And i can speak for germany that we have the same problem, that public schools are getting worse and worse. Unfortuantely the reasons here are different and obvious and could be solved easily, but it would costs jobs in politics... so not going to happen before germany is close to bankrupcy

Look at Poland: They have bee swept up by what the leftist media is calling "extremism". All because they don't want to be part of the EU, they don't want their borders flooded with Middle Eastern immigrants, many of whom are criminals, rapists, murderers, and terrorists, and they believe in a Christian God, and Polish heritage and Polish language.

Personally, I don't find that to be "extreme". God bless 'em and good luck. It's their country and they are looking out for themselves. President Trump is also doing the same thing for America. The leftists in this country are screaming at the sky and protesting against him, but they will eventually get over it.

Why would terrorists be fleeing terrorism? What would be the point?

You parrots never figure this shit out. It's not a complex thing.

Because the good guys in this world are making it a little hard for them in their own countries. Therefore they go to European countries whose governments are more "tolerant" and have a "Kumbya" attitude. Like the UK, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, and formerly France.

 

[Pogo]

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. The have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

I doubt it is an issue of party. I think it lies in human nature. Elite groups and political leaders are part of them dont like to be bothered with everyday problems (because they cant solve them), therefore they create artifical problems and solve those. While it is not as obvious, the democrats like to "control" as well... Its part of the job description for a political leader. And i can speak for germany that we have the same problem, that public schools are getting worse and worse. Unfortuantely the reasons here are different and obvious and could be solved easily, but it would costs jobs in politics... so not going to happen before germany is close to bankrupcy

Look at Poland: They have bee swept up by what the leftist media is calling "extremism". All because they don't want to be part of the EU, they don't want their borders flooded with Middle Eastern immigrants, many of whom are criminals, rapists, murderers, and terrorists, and they believe in a Christian God, and Polish heritage and Polish language.

Personally, I don't find that to be "extreme". God bless 'em and good luck. It's their country and they are looking out for themselves. President Trump is also doing the same thing for America. The leftists in this country are screaming at the sky and protesting against him, but they will eventually get over it.

Why would terrorists be fleeing terrorism? What would be the point?

You parrots never figure this shit out. It's not a complex thing.

Because the good guys in this world are making it a little hard for them in their own countries. Therefore they go to European countries whose governments are more "tolerant" and have a "Kumbya" attitude. Like the UK, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, and formerly France.

You know that doesn't make any sense, right?

 

[toobfreak]

In most democracies we see a rise of extremists on the left and right (more obvious in most countries is the right wing).

And there he goes with a TOTAL FAIL on his very first thread, not realizing that by their very nature, "democracies" are MOB RULE, and so intrinsically lean toward the Left. So naturally, the Leftist extremism is seen as the NORM by the majority Leftist extremists and moderate rather than the extremism it is, so when anyone tries to pull the system into BALANCE by leaning any other way (centrist, etc), it is automatically labelled as being "extremist" right wing, and naturally "stands out."

Well spoken as a leftist socialist technocrat asking to explain something to him he really doesn't want to understand . . . .

 

[Tehon]

I am having trouble understanding where we (as the people and voters) made a mistake. While i have my own conclusion about that, I would like to hear some opinions first.

In most democracies we see a rise of extremists on the left and right (more obvious in most countries is the right wing). On the same time we have had a peaceful period of time for several decades, the living standards rise since ww2 and yet, everybody seems to be unhappy. Why is that the case?
And a more specific question is, how can 30-40 percent of US citizens blindly stand behind this president? I do not blame them specifically as I am starting to believe this can happen anywhere else as well (i am from germany). Lets say that all of his political ideas (tariffs, walls, health care, taxes, etc.) would make sense to you, does it bias his rethoric? Apart from white male supremecists i dont think there is a group that he didnt attack. Do you really believe he is the only one who could improve your country? Why wouldnt a "normal" politican be able to do it without all the lies?

My simple ideas i currently have are education and lobbyism. But given the fact that the leading political party changed over the last decades quite often in all those democracies, why did we end up being so uneducated, that a lot of us are going extreme as the only solution? Why is belief more important than facts? When did we stopped checking what people say? Did this start with social media? Is social media the modern radio, that empowered Hitler? And why do we allow lobbys to write laws for the elected government to pass? Why can't they formulate their own ideas and write them into a law? I agree, that involved parties should be heard and their opinions taken into account into an decision, but to what extent?

Where will this development lead to? Back to markantilism? Back to nationalism and wars? To some new and better future? if that is the case, how is that accomplished?

Neoliberalism is at the heart of the matter.

 

[baum]

I blame the republican attack on education. An uneducated populace is easier to control.

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. The have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

I doubt it is an issue of party. I think it lies in human nature. Elite groups and political leaders are part of them dont like to be bothered with everyday problems (because they cant solve them), therefore they create artifical problems and solve those. While it is not as obvious, the democrats like to "control" as well... Its part of the job description for a political leader. And i can speak for germany that we have the same problem, that public schools are getting worse and worse. Unfortuantely the reasons here are different and obvious and could be solved easily, but it would costs jobs in politics... so not going to happen before germany is close to bankrupcy

Look at Poland: They have been swept up by what the leftist media is calling "extremism". All because they don't want to be part of the EU, they don't want their borders flooded with Middle Eastern immigrants, many of whom are criminals, rapists, murderers, and terrorists, and they believe in a Christian God, and Polish heritage and Polish language.

Personally, I don't find that to be "extreme". God bless 'em and good luck. It's their country and they are looking out for themselves. President Trump is also doing the same thing for America. The leftists in this country are screaming at the sky and protesting against him, but they will eventually get over it.

I do not have to agree with you that Trump is "making America great again" i hope. But i do agree that for any voter in a country that the idea "to put your own problems before anyone elses" is a good political style. You can only think of others, if you have your own problems solved. I doubt that Mr. trump will advance your country in any way i would hope for as an american citizen, but only time will tell.
Where i understand that US citizens have a problem when europeans try to explain how things work over here and how good it is, i have the same feeling when you explain me the politics of hungary or poland or whatever nation. It is not accurate. Poland never was "left" in any european "left-right" scheme. Germany was never right since ww2, because what we call right, is still socialism to you. It is true that a lot of europeans dont want their countries flooded with immigrants. There are different reasons for that, but in germany it is most economic reasons (despite your beliefs of the rapists and murderers). And by the way, i highly doubt that Poland or Hungary would be so happy, if they leave the EU. They basically live on EU money.

What i am trying to say is, that to me those anti-immigrant beliefs are totally fine, if we talk about them in a reasonable way. In any given group of people you will find criminals. We can discuss if in an immigrant group are more criminals than in another given group (best with the same income) and i wouldnt be so sure of the results.
I can understand that you might think that Trumps policies will have a positive effect. I disagree there, but thats a valid position.
But why does it need a sociopath to take these policies into effect? Dont get me wrong here, its not neccesarily a bad thing. At least not what i have read (companies that face great difficulties are more likely to succeed if they are lead by a sociopath, while companies in "normal" times are more successful with a "normal" leader). You cant tell me, that there wouldnt be a better person for this. Hell, from just the couple of posts here, you probably would be the better choice already.

 

[toobfreak]

I am having trouble understanding where we (as the people and voters) made a mistake. While i have my own conclusion about that, I would like to hear some opinions first.

In most democracies we see a rise of extremists on the left and right (more obvious in most countries is the right wing). On the same time we have had a peaceful period of time for several decades, the living standards rise since ww2 and yet, everybody seems to be unhappy. Why is that the case?
And a more specific question is, how can 30-40 percent of US citizens blindly stand behind this president? I do not blame them specifically as I am starting to believe this can happen anywhere else as well (i am from germany). Lets say that all of his political ideas (tariffs, walls, health care, taxes, etc.) would make sense to you, does it bias his rethoric? Apart from white male supremecists i dont think there is a group that he didnt attack. Do you really believe he is the only one who could improve your country? Why wouldnt a "normal" politican be able to do it without all the lies?

My simple ideas i currently have are education and lobbyism. But given the fact that the leading political party changed over the last decades quite often in all those democracies, why did we end up being so uneducated, that a lot of us are going extreme as the only solution? Why is belief more important than facts? When did we stopped checking what people say? Did this start with social media? Is social media the modern radio, that empowered Hitler? And why do we allow lobbys to write laws for the elected government to pass? Why can't they formulate their own ideas and write them into a law? I agree, that involved parties should be heard and their opinions taken into account into an decision, but to what extent?

Where will this development lead to? Back to markantilism? Back to nationalism and wars? To some new and better future? if that is the case, how is that accomplished?

Neoliberalism is at the heart of the matter.

Neoliberalism--- --- isn't that the new catch phrase for intellectual snob elitist fascists justifying themselves as superior and manifestdestiny in creating and inheriting the meltdown of the once-great Western Civilization because they've steered some of themselves into protected gated communities as they watch the rest of the world be flooded by the swath of the uneducated skilless poor they opened the doors to as a deluge over their own people?

 

[toobfreak]

I blame the republican attack on education. An uneducated populace is easier to control.

Are they? Hmmm... not sure I see the math there. I'd guess it's more likely to the other way, depending on who's doing the educating.

Not so. The have deliberately removed any teaching of critical thinking making many of the lower intelligence folks easily lead and influenced.

I doubt it is an issue of party. I think it lies in human nature. Elite groups and political leaders are part of them dont like to be bothered with everyday problems (because they cant solve them), therefore they create artifical problems and solve those. While it is not as obvious, the democrats like to "control" as well... Its part of the job description for a political leader. And i can speak for germany that we have the same problem, that public schools are getting worse and worse. Unfortuantely the reasons here are different and obvious and could be solved easily, but it would costs jobs in politics... so not going to happen before germany is close to bankrupcy

Look at Poland: They have been swept up by what the leftist media is calling "extremism". All because they don't want to be part of the EU, they don't want their borders flooded with Middle Eastern immigrants, many of whom are criminals, rapists, murderers, and terrorists, and they believe in a Christian God, and Polish heritage and Polish language.

Personally, I don't find that to be "extreme". God bless 'em and good luck. It's their country and they are looking out for themselves. President Trump is also doing the same thing for America. The leftists in this country are screaming at the sky and protesting against him, but they will eventually get over it.

I do not have to agree with you that Trump is "making America great again" i hope. But i do agree that for any voter in a country that the idea "to put your own problems before anyone elses" is a good political style. You can only think of others, if you have your own problems solved. I doubt that Mr. trump will advance your country in any way i would hope for as an american citizen, but only time will tell.
Where i understand that US citizens have a problem when europeans try to explain how things work over here and how good it is, i have the same feeling when you explain me the politics of hungary or poland or whatever nation. It is not accurate. Poland never was "left" in any european "left-right" scheme. Germany was never right since ww2, because what we call right, is still socialism to you. It is true that a lot of europeans dont want their countries flooded with immigrants. There are different reasons for that, but in germany it is most economic reasons (despite your beliefs of the rapists and murderers). And by the way, i highly doubt that Poland or Hungary would be so happy, if they leave the EU. They basically live on EU money.

What i am trying to say is, that to me those anti-immigrant beliefs are totally fine, if we talk about them in a reasonable way. In any given group of people you will find criminals. We can discuss if in an immigrant group are more criminals than in another given group (best with the same income) and i wouldnt be so sure of the results.
I can understand that you might think that Trumps policies will have a positive effect. I disagree there, but thats a valid position.
But why does it need a sociopath to take these policies into effect? Dont get me wrong here, its not neccesarily a bad thing. At least not what i have read (companies that face great difficulties are more likely to succeed if they are lead by a sociopath, while companies in "normal" times are more successful with a "normal" leader). You cant tell me, that there wouldnt be a better person for this. Hell, from just the couple of posts here, you probably would be the better choice already.

tl;dr