Pistol caliber carbines

[harmonica]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

I don't worry about a hollow point or any round penetrating walls. I live in the middle of an 8 acre plot and have no neighbors within eyesight.

And my wife is a dead shot at 15 yards with a .380.

Since you already made up your mind why did you start the thread?

I haven't already made up my mind I said i was leaning towards one. I will not have made up my mind until I actually decide to buy one.

I was looking for negatives that I might not be seeing.

.....home defense..well....what would be a realistic situation where you are at? inside the house usually means home defense....but I would think the majority of encounters [ near the home ] with jackasses would be outside the house......and what would the jackasses be armed with?

I don't see that it is very likely that a bunch of armed people will lay siege to my home where I would be shooting back at them over distances of more than 50 yards.

Realistically the only time I think I would shoot anyone is if they actually broke in to my house.

.....well, I would always say go with the pistol for inside the home...I can see how the article says the rifle is more accurate, and it is .....but, we go back to the realism issue:
--would you really be holding up the rifle aiming in at a jackass, or keeping it at the low carry? it's going to be a dynamic, confusing,etc situation at first...I don't see myself getting our of bed, shower, etc putting the rifle at the aiming position
---and here's the key = much faster to bring the pistol up to a GOOD aiming position = especially in a dynamic situation

That's the idea behind using a pistol caliber carbine. It's a shoulder fired weapon with a longer barrel than a pistol but usually shorter than a rifle or shotgun. So you get a higher muzzle velocity that you would from a pistol with very little recoil and better accuracy

shoulder fired = longer to aim

 

[Blues Man]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

I don't worry about a hollow point or any round penetrating walls. I live in the middle of an 8 acre plot and have no neighbors within eyesight.

And my wife is a dead shot at 15 yards with a .380.

Since you already made up your mind why did you start the thread?

I haven't already made up my mind I said i was leaning towards one. I will not have made up my mind until I actually decide to buy one.

I was looking for negatives that I might not be seeing.

..the Miami Dade Shooting was a realistic incident which gives examples of much of what is talked about in the thread
..stopping power/etc.....
''''''In the aftermath, the FBI initially chose the Smith & Wesson 1076 chambered for the 10mm Auto round, but its sharp recoil proved too much for most agents to control effectively, and a special reduced velocity loading was developed - commonly referred to as the "10mm Lite" or "10mm FBI"''''''

1986 FBI Miami shootout - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What are the odds of that happening at my house?

no--not what I meant - the point is it talks about stopping power/etc

A PCC of any caliber should have better stopping power than a pistol of the same caliber since the longer barrel results in higher muzzle velocities. Granted not as high as a rifle's muzzle velocity but still more than a pistol.

 

[Blues Man]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

I don't worry about a hollow point or any round penetrating walls. I live in the middle of an 8 acre plot and have no neighbors within eyesight.

And my wife is a dead shot at 15 yards with a .380.

Since you already made up your mind why did you start the thread?

I haven't already made up my mind I said i was leaning towards one. I will not have made up my mind until I actually decide to buy one.

I was looking for negatives that I might not be seeing.

.....home defense..well....what would be a realistic situation where you are at? inside the house usually means home defense....but I would think the majority of encounters [ near the home ] with jackasses would be outside the house......and what would the jackasses be armed with?

I don't see that it is very likely that a bunch of armed people will lay siege to my home where I would be shooting back at them over distances of more than 50 yards.

Realistically the only time I think I would shoot anyone is if they actually broke in to my house.

.....well, I would always say go with the pistol for inside the home...I can see how the article says the rifle is more accurate, and it is .....but, we go back to the realism issue:
--would you really be holding up the rifle aiming in at a jackass, or keeping it at the low carry? it's going to be a dynamic, confusing,etc situation at first...I don't see myself getting our of bed, shower, etc putting the rifle at the aiming position
---and here's the key = much faster to bring the pistol up to a GOOD aiming position = especially in a dynamic situation

That's the idea behind using a pistol caliber carbine. It's a shoulder fired weapon with a longer barrel than a pistol but usually shorter than a rifle or shotgun. So you get a higher muzzle velocity that you would from a pistol with very little recoil and better accuracy

shoulder fired = longer to aim

Yeah true but lots of people here prefer a shotgun for home defense. So on that point i think the 2 are equal.

 

[harmonica]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

I don't worry about a hollow point or any round penetrating walls. I live in the middle of an 8 acre plot and have no neighbors within eyesight.

And my wife is a dead shot at 15 yards with a .380.

Since you already made up your mind why did you start the thread?

I haven't already made up my mind I said i was leaning towards one. I will not have made up my mind until I actually decide to buy one.

I was looking for negatives that I might not be seeing.

.....home defense..well....what would be a realistic situation where you are at? inside the house usually means home defense....but I would think the majority of encounters [ near the home ] with jackasses would be outside the house......and what would the jackasses be armed with?

I don't see that it is very likely that a bunch of armed people will lay siege to my home where I would be shooting back at them over distances of more than 50 yards.

Realistically the only time I think I would shoot anyone is if they actually broke in to my house.

.....well, I would always say go with the pistol for inside the home...I can see how the article says the rifle is more accurate, and it is .....but, we go back to the realism issue:
--would you really be holding up the rifle aiming in at a jackass, or keeping it at the low carry? it's going to be a dynamic, confusing,etc situation at first...I don't see myself getting our of bed, shower, etc putting the rifle at the aiming position
---and here's the key = much faster to bring the pistol up to a GOOD aiming position = especially in a dynamic situation

That's the idea behind using a pistol caliber carbine. It's a shoulder fired weapon with a longer barrel than a pistol but usually shorter than a rifle or shotgun. So you get a higher muzzle velocity that you would from a pistol with very little recoil and better accuracy

shoulder fired = longer to aim

Yeah true but lots of people here prefer a shotgun for home defense. So on that point i think the 2 are equal.

..we did something like point and shoot with the M16s in the USMC....I forget what we called it [ about 30 years ago ] ....we would not hip shoot or aim, but trained to point and fire--really just extending the rifle from the carry position
..IMO a rifle would not be as accurate as a pistol because of the dynamics in like say someone breaking in...the rifle is '''physically''/scientifically/etc more accurate = but in real life close quarters situations--no...and depends on training

 

[westwall]

I have two levers in pistol caliber, both Uberti, both in .357, both carbines. One is 1892 model, the other is 1873.

Both are light, easy to handle tack-hammers (even with my middlin' marksmanship) with negligible recoil.

I am slightly more partial to the 1873 ... the straight-in feed is less likely to jam than the feed up 1892.

.357 would be a good choice if there had to be one.

yeah I was looking at something bigger than a 9mm. The .45 ACP is the one I'm leaning towards.

I have a Winchester Model 94 in .45 Colt. Very effective at short range and quite handy with a 16.5 inch barrel.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Yes I have had several. I see no real downside when "what one is comfortable with" plays in.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Used to deer hunt with a Ruger .44mag. carbine. Primo weapon in the thickets and deer went down like someone dropped a safe on them.

 

[Shawnee_b]

Used to deer hunt with a Ruger .44mag. carbine. Primo weapon in the thickets and deer went down like someone dropped a safe on them.

I still have one. The older tube fed one.

 

[ProfessorHawthorne]

I am slightly more partial to the 1873 ... the straight-in feed is less likely to jam than the feed up 1892.

'Less likely to jam'. Words to strike fear into anyone relying on a weapon.

Lever rifles can be notoriously picky eaters. Either .357 and .38 can be fired, but a shorter .38 round will jam my 1892 after a few shots. The longer, proper length .357 round will feed without a hitch.

Find the gun food your piece likes to eat and stick to it.

Interesting. I have two older Marlin lever actions - one in 357 and one in 44 mag. The 357 feeds anything. I keep it loaded by the bedroom door with 38 wadcutters. The wadcutters cut way down on wall penetration and still pack a punch. The other comments concerning accuracy distance of a rifle vs a PCC, I find irrelevant. As one poster said, the fight will be well inside 50 yards. I keep a CZ Scorpion carbine (9mm) loaded with a Beta C drum in the closet just in case - given what's going on nowadays. I need to load all the Glock 17 mags for the Sub2000 before June. I'm a big fan of PCCs. I have two other AR-style builds - one for 9mm and one for 40 S&W. And another Rossi lever gun in 44 mag.

The idea of lighting off a 5.56 round in the house at 2800fps and expecting it to stay anywhere in the house seems unlikely. A 12 ga in the house? I've see 00 buck go through 5 sheetrock walls before slowing down, especially with the newer steel shot. A 12 ga with #7 birdshot - not so bad, but not a great stopping round. Wadcutters and semi-jacketed hollow points seem to "wander" the least.

Cheers

 

[Shawnee_b]

Interesting. I have two older Marlin lever actions - one in 357 and one in 44 mag. The 357 feeds anything. I keep it loaded by the bedroom door with 38 wadcutters. The wadcutters cut way down on wall penetration and still pack a punch. The other comments concerning accuracy distance of a rifle vs a PCC, I find irrelevant. As one poster said, the fight will be well inside 50 yards. I keep a CZ Scorpion carbine (9mm) loaded with a Beta C drum in the closet just in case - given what's going on nowadays. I need to load all the Glock 17 mags for the Sub2000 before June. I'm a big fan of PCCs. I have two other AR-style builds - one for 9mm and one for 40 S&W. And another Rossi lever gun in 44 mag.



Cheers

like the 357/38 better too. Almost took home a Henry Big Boy in 44m yesterday, if it was a 357 it would be here.

If you reload. Load 158gr hollow base wadcutters backwards in the casing. Makes a wicked pure lead HP It was a British thing, worked well.

 

[Likkmee]

Does anyone ere have any experience with a PCC?

I'm trying to see the downside of one of these for home defense.

11 Top Pistol Caliber Carbine Choices - The Truth About Guns

Looking at a pistol caliber carbine? It's one of the most endlessly useful guns there is. Where to start though? Here are some great starting points...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

The AR 9 takes glock magazines, so it could be handy if you already have a glock.

I like the 12 gauge for home defense, it clears out a room pretty fast...

Hard to beat a shotgun for that.

I agree. My wife doesn't like the shotgun though.

Then why would she like a rifle? If home defense is a real, present danger, and if she is petite as women often are, a .22 or .25 for her would be something effective at close range and easy for a small person to handle.

I have a friend who calls my .357 lever a 'girl gun' because of its light weight and negligible recoil.

SHOOT the motherfucker in the chest and ask if he has a second opinion.

 

[Likkmee]

I am slightly more partial to the 1873 ... the straight-in feed is less likely to jam than the feed up 1892.

'Less likely to jam'. Words to strike fear into anyone relying on a weapon.

Lever rifles can be notoriously picky eaters. Either .357 and .38 can be fired, but a shorter .38 round will jam my 1892 after a few shots. The longer, proper length .357 round will feed without a hitch.

Find the gun food your piece likes to eat and stick to it.

Interesting. I have two older Marlin lever actions - one in 357 and one in 44 mag. The 357 feeds anything. I keep it loaded by the bedroom door with 38 wadcutters. The wadcutters cut way down on wall penetration and still pack a punch. The other comments concerning accuracy distance of a rifle vs a PCC, I find irrelevant. As one poster said, the fight will be well inside 50 yards. I keep a CZ Scorpion carbine (9mm) loaded with a Beta C drum in the closet just in case - given what's going on nowadays. I need to load all the Glock 17 mags for the Sub2000 before June. I'm a big fan of PCCs. I have two other AR-style builds - one for 9mm and one for 40 S&W. And another Rossi lever gun in 44 mag.

The idea of lighting off a 5.56 round in the house at 2800fps and expecting it to stay anywhere in the house seems unlikely. A 12 ga in the house? I've see 00 buck go through 5 sheetrock walls before slowing down, especially with the newer steel shot. A 12 ga with #7 birdshot - not so bad, but not a great stopping round. Wadcutters and semi-jacketed hollow points seem to "wander" the least.

Cheers

#4 in the house. Double 00 for the car door of Tyrone

 

[Likkmee]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

410...Get a matching derringer for her purse. Killed my first 6 point with a 410...at about 50 feet.

 

[there4eyeM]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

410...Get a matching derringer for her purse. Killed my first 6 point with a 410...at about 50 feet.

Rifled slug, one assumes. Pretty awesome, really, and underrated.

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

Does anyone ere have any experience with a PCC?

I'm trying to see the downside of one of these for home defense.

11 Top Pistol Caliber Carbine Choices - The Truth About Guns

Looking at a pistol caliber carbine? It's one of the most endlessly useful guns there is. Where to start though? Here are some great starting points...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

Home defense hard to beat the old shotgun .

 

[Mac-7]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

410...Get a matching derringer for her purse. Killed my first 6 point with a 410...at about 50 feet.

Rifled slug, one assumes. Pretty awesome, really, and underrated.

For a lady I would prefer the 20 ga in a single barrel using buckshot

but thats just me

 

[there4eyeM]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

410...Get a matching derringer for her purse. Killed my first 6 point with a 410...at about 50 feet.

Rifled slug, one assumes. Pretty awesome, really, and underrated.

For a lady I would prefer the 20 ga in a single barrel using buckshot

but thats just me

My reference was purely to hunting, not self defense in the home. A pump or semi-auto to preserve one's family is a virtual directional hand grenade.

 

[postman]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

410...Get a matching derringer for her purse. Killed my first 6 point with a 410...at about 50 feet.

Rifled slug, one assumes. Pretty awesome, really, and underrated.

For a lady I would prefer the 20 ga in a single barrel using buckshot

but thats just me

My reference was purely to hunting, not self defense in the home. A pump or semi-auto to preserve one's family is a virtual directional hand grenade.

For the novice I would go with the pump. This way you could leave the chamber empty, and every crook knows the sound of a pump shotgun being loaded.

 

[JGalt]

Does anyone ere have any experience with a PCC?

I'm trying to see the downside of one of these for home defense.

11 Top Pistol Caliber Carbine Choices - The Truth About Guns

Looking at a pistol caliber carbine? It's one of the most endlessly useful guns there is. Where to start though? Here are some great starting points...

www.thetruthaboutguns.com

You mean like an M1 carbine? I've owned five of them during my lifetime so far. Of course it's not really a pistol cartridge, per se, but it does have about the same ballistics as a .357 magnum.

I did own a Hi-Point 9mm carbine back in 2015. It's probably the only thing Hi-Point makes that worth a damn. Fun to plink with, but doesn't have any real practical value.

 

[occipitalgullet]

Low recoil, faster muzzle velocities and hollow point rounds sound like a good home defense weapon

They also travel through walls and across the street and demand pinpoint accuracy

and unless your wife is proficient a semi-auto rifle or handgun is more difficult to use under stress and more prone to accidental discharge

if a 12 ga intimidates her get a 20 ga break barrel with external hammer

home invaders will run away at first sight of a shotgun and she wont even have to fire it

I don't worry about a hollow point or any round penetrating walls. I live in the middle of an 8 acre plot and have no neighbors within eyesight.

And my wife is a dead shot at 15 yards with a .380.

Since you already made up your mind why did you start the thread?

I haven't already made up my mind I said i was leaning towards one. I will not have made up my mind until I actually decide to buy one.

I was looking for negatives that I might not be seeing.

.....home defense..well....what would be a realistic situation where you are at? inside the house usually means home defense....but I would think the majority of encounters [ near the home ] with jackasses would be outside the house......and what would the jackasses be armed with?

I don't see that it is very likely that a bunch of armed people will lay siege to my home where I would be shooting back at them over distances of more than 50 yards.

Realistically the only time I think I would shoot anyone is if they actually broke in to my house.

.....well, I would always say go with the pistol for inside the home...I can see how the article says the rifle is more accurate, and it is .....but, we go back to the realism issue:
--would you really be holding up the rifle aiming in at a jackass, or keeping it at the low carry? it's going to be a dynamic, confusing,etc situation at first...I don't see myself getting our of bed, shower, etc putting the rifle at the aiming position
---and here's the key = much faster to bring the pistol up to a GOOD aiming position = especially in a dynamic situation

That's the idea behind using a pistol caliber carbine. It's a shoulder fired weapon with a longer barrel than a pistol but usually shorter than a rifle or shotgun. So you get a higher muzzle velocity that you would from a pistol with very little recoil and better accuracy

shoulder fired = longer to aim

Yeah true but lots of people here prefer a shotgun for home defense. So on that point i think the 2 are equal.

I own a 45 ACP PCC. The things I like about it is is that it is a fantastic suppressor host. It is pretty accurate. It has very little recoil. If used in a Self Defense setting you could accurately and quickly operate the PCC.

It is has a lot more value then it is "fun to plink with."