Peter Schiff: Market Boost An Illusion

[Kevin_Kennedy]

[youtube]O9cAvKSs1w0[/youtube]

 

[elvis]

[youtube]O9cAvKSs1w0[/youtube]

How much of ANY market boost is an illusion? Think dot com bubble.

 

[editec]

"People are not rushing into stocks, they're rushing out of cash"

Perceptive...given that cash is an illusion which works only so long as the amount of it is in some kind of sound realtionship to the amount of goods and services, he might be spot on.

How can the stock market be healthy while the labor market is in panic retreat mode?

 

[neurosport]

if you print money faster than people can spend it the extra will go into "investing"

unfortunately this "investing" will be nothing but a bubble. or in our case we are trying to re-inflate a bubble that has popped by pumping air through a bigger hose than is the size of the hole in the bubble.

i like his prognosis for when the depression will end - NEVER

good one !

 

[Toro]

We'll see.

He was spectacularly wrong last year in his fund and his investors were crushed so his credibility isn't exactly solid.

 

[Ame®icano]

We'll see.

He was spectacularly wrong last year in his fund and his investors were crushed so his credibility isn't exactly solid.

Source?

As much I know he was damn right all the time.

 

[neurosport]

We'll see.

He was spectacularly wrong last year in his fund and his investors were crushed so his credibility isn't exactly solid.

doesn't matter who he is. it doesn't take a genius here - the stock market is going up at the same time as people are still being laid off in large numbers.

if all the businesses are doing so great - why are they laying people off ?

the stock market is thus an illusion. however that doesn't mean that it won't keep going up. why wouldn't it ? all the money being printed has to go SOMEWHERE ...

actually ONE THING could save the economy. at this point Asians know they will never get their money back ... and they know that in order for Americans to keep buying their crap they need to keep buying our worthless paper ... if they they decide to CONTINUE TO DO SO ( while knowing they will never get anything for that paper ) then the crisis will go away.

if the white house can bribe Chinese officials into doing this - awesome ! let's just hope they don't start assassinating Chinese politicians because WW3 would be bad ...

 

[Toro]

We'll see.

He was spectacularly wrong last year in his fund and his investors were crushed so his credibility isn't exactly solid.

Source?

As much I know he was damn right all the time.

He has not been right all the time. He lost his clients a lot of money last year.

I have talked with many who claim they have invested with Schiff and are down anywhere from 40% to 70% in 2008. There are many other such claims on the internet. They are entirely believable for the simple reason Schiff's investment thesis was flat out wrong.

Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis: Peter Schiff Was Wrong

Investors open accounts at Euro Pacific to take advantage of Mr. Schiff's investment advice, which generally involves shunning investments in dollars. Individual returns can vary. Some investors may like gold-mining stocks, while others prefer energy-focused stocks.

Most had one thing in common last year: heavy losses. A number of investors said their Euro Pacific portfolios lost 50% or more in 2008, worse than the 38% drop in the Standard & Poor's 500-stock index last year. People familiar with the firm say that hardly any securities recommended by Euro Pacific brokers gained ground in 2008. ...

Early last year, Richard De Gennaro, a retired Harvard University librarian, put $100,000, about 15% of his assets, into a Euro Pacific account that included Canadian Oil Sands Trust, which focuses on crude-oil projects in Canada, and the India Capital Growth Fund, which holds investments in companies that do business in India.

Both investments took big hits in 2008, compounded by the fact that the Canadian dollar and the Indian rupee fell 18% and 19%, respectively, against the U.S. dollar. The 83-year-old retiree's account is now worth about $37,000, a 63% plunge. Mr. Schiff "goes around saying that he was right," says Mr. De Gennaro. "He was right about one thing and wrong about everything else."

Among investors who turned to Mr. Schiff's firm just as his strategy began to falter, Brian Kullberg, a design engineer in Portland, Ore., says he started to worry about the state of the U.S. economy in early 2008. He put $70,000 into a Euro Pacific account, hoping it would benefit as the U.S. economy and the dollar weakened. By late January 2009, his investment had shrunk to about $25,000.

Right Forecast by Schiff, Wrong Plan? - WSJ.com

 

[Toro]

We'll see.

He was spectacularly wrong last year in his fund and his investors were crushed so his credibility isn't exactly solid.

doesn't matter who he is. it doesn't take a genius here - the stock market is going up at the same time as people are still being laid off in large numbers.

if all the businesses are doing so great - why are they laying people off ?

the stock market is thus an illusion. however that doesn't mean that it won't keep going up. why wouldn't it ? all the money being printed has to go SOMEWHERE ...

actually ONE THING could save the economy. at this point Asians know they will never get their money back ... and they know that in order for Americans to keep buying their crap they need to keep buying our worthless paper ... if they they decide to CONTINUE TO DO SO ( while knowing they will never get anything for that paper ) then the crisis will go away.

if the white house can bribe Chinese officials into doing this - awesome ! let's just hope they don't start assassinating Chinese politicians because WW3 would be bad ...

Every single stock market bottom has occurred when jobs losses were continuing. Every single one.

That's because the stock market is a leading indicator while employment is a lagging indicator. The stock market forecasts the turn in the economy while corporations react to an improving economy by stopping firing people and re-hiring again.

 

[mash107]

We'll see.

He was spectacularly wrong last year in his fund and his investors were crushed so his credibility isn't exactly solid.

doesn't matter who he is. it doesn't take a genius here - the stock market is going up at the same time as people are still being laid off in large numbers.

if all the businesses are doing so great - why are they laying people off ?

the stock market is thus an illusion. however that doesn't mean that it won't keep going up. why wouldn't it ? all the money being printed has to go SOMEWHERE ...

actually ONE THING could save the economy. at this point Asians know they will never get their money back ... and they know that in order for Americans to keep buying their crap they need to keep buying our worthless paper ... if they they decide to CONTINUE TO DO SO ( while knowing they will never get anything for that paper ) then the crisis will go away.

if the white house can bribe Chinese officials into doing this - awesome ! let's just hope they don't start assassinating Chinese politicians because WW3 would be bad ...

Every single stock market bottom has occurred when jobs losses were continuing. Every single one.

That's because the stock market is a leading indicator while employment is a lagging indicator. The stock market forecasts the turn in the economy while corporations react to an improving economy by stopping firing people and re-hiring again.

What worries me is that gas (now $2.30 in CT) and oil (now $51) has rebounded by relatively the same % margin as the stock markets, leading me to believe its inflation causing the rebound, and not an actual improvement. I don't expect unemployment numbers to change, at least in the private, productive bits of the economy, anytime soon.

 

[Terral]

Hi Kevin:

[FONT=&quot]Peter Schiff: Market Boost An Illusion [/FONT]

I do believe what Peter Schiff is trying to say in his video interview is, "The Market Boost is based upon Govt-created illusion and deception." Liars stand in front of TV cameras every day and lie like hell in saying the economy is getting better, when in reality things are far worse than reported ‘and’ getting even worse. In the old days, money migrated back and forth from Real Estate to Stocks and Bonds; but the Real Estate component has been destroyed by deflation, which means the Stock Market is artificially overbought and a price bubble is being formed right before your eyes.

More and more Americans are aware of the fact that the U.S. Dollar will suffer hyperinflation and then ultimate death, when China, Russia, the Arabs and everybody else begins dumping dollars onto the open market. Therefore, the smart people are transferring liquid assets into hard assets in anticipation of the dollar losing value in the months to come. Everyone from Bernanke to Tim Geithner and Senor Obama is trying to convince you that the Stock Market will go up, when we are still looking at 10,000 foreclosures every damned day and more than a half million Americans lost JOBS last month ‘and’ will again this month, so on and so forth.

The US Economy has been wired for IMPLOSION (my thread), like the World Trade Center Twin Towers and Building 7, only the Controlled Demolition is taking place in slow motion. We can use the Stock Market as a measuring rod of whether or not the general public is buying Obama Administration LIES. The idiot day traders are being tricked into pouring new money into a Dow Jones Stock Market that should be in the neighborhood of 5000 to 6000. However, reality will set in during the summer and fall and the Dow Jones will make the correction and leave many investors ruined, as their reward for being so stupid and naive. Gerald Celente (Trends Research.com) is predicting the same Economic Collapse that Peter Schiff can see on the horizon:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaSKJ75EMoc[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM-Zwqa2WyA&feature=related"]Celente Explains False Flag Recovery Part 1[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FzK4RvdDTc&feature=related"]Celente Explains False Flag Recovery Part 2[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXkevPuuZG0&feature=related"]Celente Explains False Flag Recovery Part 3[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsowQVFXNjo&feature=related"]Celente Explains False Flag Recovery Part 4[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AyQwvbcdgk&feature=related]Full Economic Collapse 2009[/ame]

GL,

Terral

 

[hipeter924]

Free Market Video...explains why there should be no government intrusion into the economy.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhWgDVS-AdA[/ame]

 

[editec]

I think the market (and the gas prices) are responding to the new money going back into the system.

Recovery?

Hardly.

It is preposterous to define a recovery as merely that stock prices rise.

If the wellbeing of the people isn't THE important factor when defining how a nation is doing, why isnt it?

America has been declining for the last 40 years and I'm not especially impressed that some small segment of the population has gotten much much richer while the rest of us were steadily getting poorer...which both the middle and lower classes obviously were.

Defining the economic health of a nation based solely on how well the superrich are doing is a perfect example of the class war we've been having all along.

 

[mash107]

I think the market (and the gas prices) are responding to the new money going back into the system.

Recovery?

Hardly.

It is preposterous to define a recovery as merely that stock prices rise.

If the wellbeing of the people isn't THE important factor when defining how a nation is doing, why isnt it?

America has been declining for the last 40 years and I'm not especially impressed that some small segment of the population has gotten much much richer while the rest of us were steadily getting poorer...which both the middle and lower classes obviously were.

Defining the economic health of a nation based solely on how well the superrich are doing is a perfect example of the class war we've been having all along.

If one prints enough money, people seem to be content with a rise in the nominal price of stocks and wages. Even if wages can buy much less than it could before, and a mother and father have to work to earn a decent living. Inflation is really, really cruel.

The exact opposite, however, happened during the panic of 1873. There was deflation, with the removal of silver from our bimetallic dollar, and a short recession occurred. People's nominal wealth seemingly went down, but deflation meant more and more could be bought. It was, in fact, a time period of enormous growth, as confirmed by even a Keynesian from the NY Times,

"Historians long attributed the turmoil to a "great depression of the 1870's." But recent detailed reconstructions of 19th-century data by economic historians show that there was no 1870's depression: aside from a short recession in 1873, in fact, the decade saw possibly the fastest sustained growth in American history."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/02/o...&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print

Deflation sets in the perception that we're losing wealth, while we're actually gaining. Inflation sets in the perception that we're gaining wealth, while in reality, we're losing.

 

[Terral]

Hi Editec:

. . . Defining the economic health of a nation based solely on how well the superrich are doing is a perfect example of the class war we've been having all along.

The coming U.S. Economic Collapse has nothing to do with class warfare.

The Dollar Is Going To Collapse

People are getting out of dollars, because the U.S. Currency value is falling like a stone. Therefore, the markets are artificially inflated and keep going up, because these dollars must go somewhere 'and' the deflationary Real Estate Market offers no solution. The U.S. Economy was wired for Implosion ON PURPOSE (Sept. 18, 2008) and the collapse will take place later this year, even though . . .

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cow7pABzYy4&feature=related"]The Greatest Depression Has Begun Part 1[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMuToidUQ7E&feature=related"]The Greatest Depression Has Begun Part 2[/ame]
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB1MnVv7Ngs&feature=related"]The Greatest Depression Has Begun Part 3[/ame]
The Greatest Depression Has Begun Part 4

GL,

Terral

 

[Neubarth]

[youtube]O9cAvKSs1w0[/youtube]

That woman is annoying. Big Tits, but that was the only thing I could find attractive about her. Schiff knows that there are no positive economic indicators. She wouldn't even let him get around to that to explain.

 

[Toro]

There's going to be a whole lot of people who are gonna be real upset when Great Depression 2.0 doesn't happen.

 

[mash107]

There's going to be a whole lot of people who are gonna be real upset when Great Depression 2.0 doesn't happen.

Even so, inflation will still be horrendous, equivalent to what was faced in the 1970s, if not worse.

You can't expect that will be good once credit markets thaw and consumers begin borrowing again. That can grow to $14T, with fractional-reserve ratios of 10%, unless liquidity is drained. If liquidity is drained, another sharp recession will take hold. If the reserve-ratios are increased, a lot of banks will become (more) insolvent than they are already, and they will go bankrupt. So, we will face either really high inflation or a recession.

 

[Neubarth]

Even so, inflation will still be horrendous, equivalent to what was faced in the 1970s, if not worse.
.... So, we will face either really high inflation or a recession.

Does all that printed money in any way offset the disappearance of wealth because of the real estate fall in price across this great land.

If one shrinks and the other one expands, is that a wash?

I am not trying to cause an argument here. Please remember, I am the guy who has never studied one minute of economics and I don't understand ninty percent of what has happened in the past two years. All I know is that we have lost something like 30 Trillion dollars in home value (I believe that is called wealth) It just went away, POOOF! and is no where to be found. So if the Government prints a Trilion dolllars does that offset the 30 Trillion that disappeared? Or does the Government have to print 30 Trillion to make up for the 30 Trilllion that went away? If we only print one trillion when 30 Trillion is lost, would that be deflationary?

Could we see a massive wave of deflation instead of Inflation???

 

[neurosport]

Even so, inflation will still be horrendous, equivalent to what was faced in the 1970s, if not worse.
.... So, we will face either really high inflation or a recession.

Does all that printed money in any way offset the disappearance of wealth because of the real estate fall in price across this great land.

If one shrinks and the other one expands, is that a wash?

I am not trying to cause an argument here. Please remember, I am the guy who has never studied one minute of economics and I don't understand ninty percent of what has happened in the past two years. All I know is that we have lost something like 30 Trillion dollars in home value (I believe that is called wealth) It just went away, POOOF! and is no where to be found. So if the Government prints a Trilion dolllars does that offset the 30 Trillion that disappeared? Or does the Government have to print 30 Trillion to make up for the 30 Trilllion that went away? If we only print one trillion when 30 Trillion is lost, would that be deflationary?

Could we see a massive wave of deflation instead of Inflation???

we lost 30 trillion worth of ILLUSORY wealth. in other words it was never there to begin this we just didn't know it.