patriot american gets called anti-semitic for not being Pro Israel.

[BlindBoo]

Jordan also illegally annexed the West Bank for almost 20 years and they don't have the right to give it away. In reality it was occupied by Jordan and now by Israel.

Well, no. Jordan did illegally occupy/annex Judea and Samaria. What made it illegal? Because Jordan crossed an international border into territory which was outside her sovereignty, and indeed, was territory belonging to another sovereign. That is generally considered against international law.

Israel, on the other hand, NEVER crossed an international border into territory under another sovereign. Israel is in the midst of a (lengthy) civil war between two local distinct peoples, both wishing self-determination.



*excepting the Golan Heights

Israel was the first to propose the armistice line of 1949, "the Green Line", as the border for Israel.

And your point is?

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

 

[Shusha]

Jordan also illegally annexed the West Bank for almost 20 years and they don't have the right to give it away. In reality it was occupied by Jordan and now by Israel.

Well, no. Jordan did illegally occupy/annex Judea and Samaria. What made it illegal? Because Jordan crossed an international border into territory which was outside her sovereignty, and indeed, was territory belonging to another sovereign. That is generally considered against international law.

Israel, on the other hand, NEVER crossed an international border into territory under another sovereign. Israel is in the midst of a (lengthy) civil war between two local distinct peoples, both wishing self-determination.



*excepting the Golan Heights

Israel was the first to propose the armistice line of 1949, "the Green Line", as the border for Israel.

And your point is?

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Ah, no.

Borders were, and ARE a final status issue. They are to be negotiated and written in a peace treaty. Every single agreement between the two sides says this. Israel can abandon territory but can not unilaterally declare borders with another State.

And there was no other sovereign until at the very earliest 1988 and arguably here isn't even one now.

So no. Israel has not crossed an international border into territory belonging to another sovereign.

Do you know where the international border between Israel and Jordan is? And when it was established? That's Israel's current and only international border to the east.

 

[Mindful]

Jordan also illegally annexed the West Bank for almost 20 years and they don't have the right to give it away. In reality it was occupied by Jordan and now by Israel.

Well, no. Jordan did illegally occupy/annex Judea and Samaria. What made it illegal? Because Jordan crossed an international border into territory which was outside her sovereignty, and indeed, was territory belonging to another sovereign. That is generally considered against international law.

Israel, on the other hand, NEVER crossed an international border into territory under another sovereign. Israel is in the midst of a (lengthy) civil war between two local distinct peoples, both wishing self-determination.



*excepting the Golan Heights

Israel was the first to propose the armistice line of 1949, "the Green Line", as the border for Israel.

And your point is?

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Which was?

 

[BlindBoo]

Jordan also illegally annexed the West Bank for almost 20 years and they don't have the right to give it away. In reality it was occupied by Jordan and now by Israel.

Well, no. Jordan did illegally occupy/annex Judea and Samaria. What made it illegal? Because Jordan crossed an international border into territory which was outside her sovereignty, and indeed, was territory belonging to another sovereign. That is generally considered against international law.

Israel, on the other hand, NEVER crossed an international border into territory under another sovereign. Israel is in the midst of a (lengthy) civil war between two local distinct peoples, both wishing self-determination.



*excepting the Golan Heights

Israel was the first to propose the armistice line of 1949, "the Green Line", as the border for Israel.

And your point is?

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

 

[Mindful]

Well, no. Jordan did illegally occupy/annex Judea and Samaria. What made it illegal? Because Jordan crossed an international border into territory which was outside her sovereignty, and indeed, was territory belonging to another sovereign. That is generally considered against international law.

Israel, on the other hand, NEVER crossed an international border into territory under another sovereign. Israel is in the midst of a (lengthy) civil war between two local distinct peoples, both wishing self-determination.



*excepting the Golan Heights

Israel was the first to propose the armistice line of 1949, "the Green Line", as the border for Israel.

And your point is?

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

 

[BlindBoo]

Israel was the first to propose the armistice line of 1949, "the Green Line", as the border for Israel.

And your point is?

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

 

[Shusha]

And your point is?

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

There was no border with Jordan in 1967. There was only the 1949 Armistice line which was explicitly, in the Armistice Treaty, NOT to be construed to be a border.

 

[Mindful]

And your point is?

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

 

[BlindBoo]

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

 

[Shusha]

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Oh! I think you are starting to get it.

Jordan was never sovereign over that territory. Israel was. There were no other sovereigns in 1967 (not until at least 1988). You can't occupy your own land.

 

[Mindful]

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Jordan was occupying the West Bank? Really? And how did that come about? Can you give me the technicalities?

 

[BlindBoo]

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Oh! I think you are starting to get it.

Jordan was never sovereign over that territory. Israel was. There were no other sovereigns in 1967 (not until at least 1988). You can't occupy your own land.

My contention is has not change. The West Bank is under Israeli military occupation and the Settlements are illegal.

I understand your position on Judea and Samaria.

 

[BlindBoo]

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Jordan was occupying the West Bank? Really? And how did that come about? Can you give me the technicalities?

I bet you can find a heapwad of information about the history of the conflict all over the internet machine. Good luck sorting through the nonsense.

 

[Mindful]

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Oh! I think you are starting to get it.

Jordan was never sovereign over that territory. Israel was. There were no other sovereigns in 1967 (not until at least 1988). You can't occupy your own land.

My contention is has not change. The West Bank is under Israeli military occupation and the Settlements are illegal.

I understand your position on Judea and Samaria.

We're done, I guess.

 

[Shusha]

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Oh! I think you are starting to get it.

Jordan was never sovereign over that territory. Israel was. There were no other sovereigns in 1967 (not until at least 1988). You can't occupy your own land.

My contention is has not change. The West Bank is under Israeli military occupation and the Settlements are illegal.

I understand your position on Judea and Samaria.

You can contend all you want. But you have failed to prove your case.

 

[BlindBoo]

The one with Jordan. 1967.

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Oh! I think you are starting to get it.

Jordan was never sovereign over that territory. Israel was. There were no other sovereigns in 1967 (not until at least 1988). You can't occupy your own land.

My contention is has not change. The West Bank is under Israeli military occupation and the Settlements are illegal.

I understand your position on Judea and Samaria.

You can contend all you want. But you have failed to prove your case.

Since you used the ancient names for the West Bank, persuading you was never an option.

The illegality of Israeli settlements is an open-and-shut case under international law, however international law has no army and is pretty much powerless to enforce anything. Nor should they. The Palestinians are mostly not partners in peace either. Another contention I have is even if the Palestinians were given a contiguous state, they would just likely use it as a base to launch more deadly attacks against Israel anyway. But that's a different story.

 

[Shusha]

You mean the country that engaged in hostilities with Israel during the Six Day War.

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Oh! I think you are starting to get it.

Jordan was never sovereign over that territory. Israel was. There were no other sovereigns in 1967 (not until at least 1988). You can't occupy your own land.

My contention is has not change. The West Bank is under Israeli military occupation and the Settlements are illegal.

I understand your position on Judea and Samaria.

You can contend all you want. But you have failed to prove your case.

Since you used the ancient names for the West Bank, persuading you was never an option.

The illegality of Israeli settlements is an open-and-shut case under international law, however international law has no army and is pretty much powerless to enforce anything. Nor should they. The Palestinians are mostly not partners in peace either. Another contention I have is even if the Palestinians were given a contiguous state, they would just likely use it as a base to launch more deadly attacks against Israel anyway. But that's a different story.

Persuading me is not an option because I know and understand international law.

Jewish people living in Judea and Samaria is not against international law.

I agree with you about the Arab Palestinians. However, as a distinct group, they still have the rights to self-determination if they can act like a State.

 

[BlindBoo]

Jordan was the country that was occupying the West Bank before the war and Israel was occupying it after the war.

You see in previous posts Shusha claims Israel is not an occupying power in the West Bank but that Judea and Samaria are territories in Israel.

Oh! I think you are starting to get it.

Jordan was never sovereign over that territory. Israel was. There were no other sovereigns in 1967 (not until at least 1988). You can't occupy your own land.

My contention is has not change. The West Bank is under Israeli military occupation and the Settlements are illegal.

I understand your position on Judea and Samaria.

You can contend all you want. But you have failed to prove your case.

Since you used the ancient names for the West Bank, persuading you was never an option.

The illegality of Israeli settlements is an open-and-shut case under international law, however international law has no army and is pretty much powerless to enforce anything. Nor should they. The Palestinians are mostly not partners in peace either. Another contention I have is even if the Palestinians were given a contiguous state, they would just likely use it as a base to launch more deadly attacks against Israel anyway. But that's a different story.

Persuading me is not an option because I know and understand international law.

Jewish people living in Judea and Samaria is not against international law.

I agree with you about the Arab Palestinians. However, as a distinct group, they still have the rights to self-determination if they can act like a State.

I think we can agree then that the settlements aren't going anywhere any time soon.

Yes they should have acted like a state long ago. That was their problem from the beginning. They were playing against Chess masters, and they weren't even that good at Checkers. They lacked a cohesive defense force and their villages all fell one by one to the superior strategy and forces of their opponents in the beginning phase of their war.

 

[P F Tinmore]

They crossed the border into territory controlled by another sovereign.

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

There was no border with Jordan in 1967. There was only the 1949 Armistice line which was explicitly, in the Armistice Treaty, NOT to be construed to be a border.

Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Israel still has armistice lines with Lebanon and Syria. Israel had armistice lines with Jordan except for around the West Bank and with Egypt except for around Gaza. These last two are no longer in affect. None of these had any affect on Palestine's international borders.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Which was?

In direct contrast to the point made by Shusha?

I'm asking you. What border? And when?

The one with Jordan. 1967.

There was no border with Jordan in 1967. There was only the 1949 Armistice line which was explicitly, in the Armistice Treaty, NOT to be construed to be a border.

Palestine has international borders with Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, and Egypt. Israel still has armistice lines with Lebanon and Syria. Israel had armistice lines with Jordan except for around the West Bank and with Egypt except for around Gaza. These last two are no longer in affect. None of these had any affect on Palestine's international borders.

The Palestine that was declared independent in 1988 does not have borders with Syria.