Paris Climate Accord and anti Trump alliance is crumbling

[flacaltenn]

US CO2 emissions are down to 1990 levels, while the economy keeps growing.

Hence, another denier talking point faceplants. You know, the one where they say growing emissions are necessary to grow the economy.

U.S. Power Plant Emissions Fall to Near 1990 Levels

You missed the whole point of WHY that emissions reduction was achieved IN SPITE OF a hostile Admin in Washington.. It was NOT a capacity cut -- in fact -- generation capacity INCREASED. It was sheer economic market driven forces.. NOBODY says that "increased emissions are NECESSARY for econ. growth". They are saying simply "CO2 shouldn't be the most important emission" that determines the mix..

 

[IanC]

US CO2 emissions are down to 1990 levels, while the economy keeps growing.

Hence, another denier talking point faceplants. You know, the one where they say growing emissions are necessary to grow the economy.

U.S. Power Plant Emissions Fall to Near 1990 Levels

You missed the whole point of WHY that emissions reduction was achieved IN SPITE OF a hostile Admin in Washington.. It was NOT a capacity cut -- in fact -- generation capacity INCREASED. It was sheer economic market driven forces.. NOBODY says that "increased emissions are NECESSARY for econ. growth". They are saying simply "CO2 shouldn't be the most important emission" that determines the mix..

Yup. I recently replaced my ~85% efficient boiler and water tank with a 95% efficient heat exchanger. My emissions are down but my need for heating and hot water remain the same.

Unfortunately there are no more 10% efficiency gains to be made in the future.

 

[flacaltenn]

US CO2 emissions are down to 1990 levels, while the economy keeps growing.

Hence, another denier talking point faceplants. You know, the one where they say growing emissions are necessary to grow the economy.

U.S. Power Plant Emissions Fall to Near 1990 Levels

You missed the whole point of WHY that emissions reduction was achieved IN SPITE OF a hostile Admin in Washington.. It was NOT a capacity cut -- in fact -- generation capacity INCREASED. It was sheer economic market driven forces.. NOBODY says that "increased emissions are NECESSARY for econ. growth". They are saying simply "CO2 shouldn't be the most important emission" that determines the mix..

Yup. I recently replaced my ~85% efficient boiler and water tank with a 95% efficient heat exchanger. My emissions are down but my need for heating and hot water remain the same.

Unfortunately there are no more 10% efficiency gains to be made in the future.

Lots of "unfortunatelies" here. Depending on WHERE you live, that heat pump is now designed to fail at outdoor temps as high as 25 degs. It WILL heat the house, but with electric(possibly nat gas) heater boosters. And spend MOST of time trying to defrost the coils... Just did a project with a major utility to improve the "efficiency" when the 10KWatt or greater electric heat strips all turn on in a neighborhood when folks get home from work and shove their thermostats back up.. No common sense. No accomodation for how people really USE these products.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Bear, when arguing about facts, it helps to actually have some.

What does your grapgh have to do with cost?

.

 

[IanC]

US CO2 emissions are down to 1990 levels, while the economy keeps growing.

Hence, another denier talking point faceplants. You know, the one where they say growing emissions are necessary to grow the economy.

U.S. Power Plant Emissions Fall to Near 1990 Levels

You missed the whole point of WHY that emissions reduction was achieved IN SPITE OF a hostile Admin in Washington.. It was NOT a capacity cut -- in fact -- generation capacity INCREASED. It was sheer economic market driven forces.. NOBODY says that "increased emissions are NECESSARY for econ. growth". They are saying simply "CO2 shouldn't be the most important emission" that determines the mix..

Yup. I recently replaced my ~85% efficient boiler and water tank with a 95% efficient heat exchanger. My emissions are down but my need for heating and hot water remain the same.

Unfortunately there are no more 10% efficiency gains to be made in the future.

Lots of "unfortunatelies" here. Depending on WHERE you live, that heat pump is now designed to fail at outdoor temps as high as 25 degs. It WILL heat the house, but with electric(possibly nat gas) heater boosters. And spend MOST of time trying to defrost the coils... Just did a project with a major utility to improve the "efficiency" when the 10KWatt or greater electric heat strips all turn on in a neighborhood when folks get home from work and shove their thermostats back up.. No common sense. No accomodation for how people really USE these products.

Sorry, not that kind of heat exchanger. I'm not exactly sure what the are called. A wall mounted, suitcase sized, on demand water heater with a separate heat exchanger to keep the potable water separate from the heating water. We'll just have to see if it chugs along for 20+ years like the old boiler, or if its lifespan is more like a regular water heater.

 

[IanC]

Bear, when arguing about facts, it helps to actually have some.

What does your grapgh have to do with cost?

.

The graph has a lot to do with fracking natural gas, and using it for new generation power plants.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Bear, when arguing about facts, it helps to actually have some.

What does your grapgh have to do with cost?

.

The graph has a lot to do with fracking natural gas, and using it for new generation power plants.

We were talking cost of renewables...





.

 

[Old Rocks]

The cost of renewables.

Something revolutionary has just happened to solar power, and it could change everything

Just ten years ago, generating electricity through solar cost about $600 per MWh, and it cost only $100 to generate the same amount of power through coal and natural gas. But the price of renewable sources of power plunged quickly – today it only costs around $100 the generate the same amount of electricity through solar and $50 through wind.

The cheap price of solar and wind energy is already encouraging companies to build more plants to harvest it. The US is adding about 125 solar panels every minute, according to the Solar Energy Industry Association and investment in renewables in 2015 rose to $286 billion, up 5 per cent from the year before.

 

[Old Rocks]

https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine...nergy-costs-wind-energy-costs-LCOE-Lazard.png

Wind and PV solar, the cheapest form of energy.

 

[Old Rocks]

Cost of Wind vs. Fossil Fuels
When comparing the cost of wind vs. fossil fuels its important to consider fuel costs, integration costs, operating costs, and the cost of tax incentives. Wind energy is cost-competitive with fossil fuels, especially coal. In Montana, wind energy is less expensive than coal for NorthWestern Energy–the state’s largest utility. The graph below from the Montana Public Service Commission, compares the costs of various resources in NorthWestern’s portfolio. Judith Gap wind facility is about $47.00/Megawatt-hour (or 4.7 cents/kilowatt-hour) and Colstrip Unit 4 is $68.00/Megawatt-hour or (6.8 cents/kilowatt hour).

Cost of Wind vs. Fossil Fuels - MEIC

The cost of wind and solar continues to decline, even as the cost of coal increases. A losing scene for coal. A winning scene for the citizens of the US.

 

[skookerasbil]

Cost of Wind vs. Fossil Fuels
When comparing the cost of wind vs. fossil fuels its important to consider fuel costs, integration costs, operating costs, and the cost of tax incentives. Wind energy is cost-competitive with fossil fuels, especially coal. In Montana, wind energy is less expensive than coal for NorthWestern Energy–the state’s largest utility. The graph below from the Montana Public Service Commission, compares the costs of various resources in NorthWestern’s portfolio. Judith Gap wind facility is about $47.00/Megawatt-hour (or 4.7 cents/kilowatt-hour) and Colstrip Unit 4 is $68.00/Megawatt-hour or (6.8 cents/kilowatt hour).

Cost of Wind vs. Fossil Fuels - MEIC

The cost of wind and solar continues to decline, even as the cost of coal increases. A losing scene for coal. A winning scene for the citizens of the US.

Hmm............really now?

Then why is the US government projecting that by 2040, renewables will still be only at 10% for providing electricity to Americans? ( according to the Obama 2016 EIA projection graph )

 

[Old Rocks]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/climate/american-cities-climate-standards.html?_r=0

Representatives of American cities, states and companies are preparing to submit a plan to the United Nations pledging to meet the United States’ greenhouse gas emissions targets under the Paris climate accord, despite President Trump’s decision to withdraw from the agreement.

The unnamed group — which, so far, includes 30 mayors, three governors, more than 80 university presidents and more than 100 businesses — is negotiating with the United Nations to have its submission accepted alongside contributions to the Paris climate deal by other nations.

“We’re going to do everything America would have done if it had stayed committed,” Michael Bloomberg, the former New York City mayor who is coordinating the effort, said in an interview.

The fat senile old orange clown is no leader. The people of this nation are simply ignoring his idiocy and going on their own. The 'deplorables' are not going to determine the direction of this nation.

 

[Crick]

I'm tickled pink by the claim that the "anti-trump alliance is crumbling" with his approval/disapproval ratings at 35% / 65%

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm tickled pink by the claim that the "anti-trump alliance is crumbling" with his approval/disapproval ratings at 35% / 65%

And sinking.

 

[PredFan]

Bucking Trump, These Cities, States and Companies Commit to Paris Accord

Representatives of American cities, states and companies are preparing to submit a plan to the United Nations pledging to meet the United States’ greenhouse gas emissions targets under the Paris climate accord, despite President Trump’s decision to withdraw from the agreement.

The unnamed group — which, so far, includes 30 mayors, three governors, more than 80 university presidents and more than 100 businesses — is negotiating with the United Nations to have its submission accepted alongside contributions to the Paris climate deal by other nations.

“We’re going to do everything America would have done if it had stayed committed,” Michael Bloomberg, the former New York City mayor who is coordinating the effort, said in an interview.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/climate/american-cities-climate-standards.html?_r=0

Just because we now have the dumbest son of a ***** every to sit in the Oval Office does not mean that we, the citizens of this great nation, cannot give hime the finger and go our own way. There is nothing at all seditious about cutting our GHG emissions and installing cheaper energy.

They will do everything they can which is exactly zero.

 

[polarbear]

Bucking Trump, These Cities, States and Companies Commit to Paris Accord

Representatives of American cities, states and companies are preparing to submit a plan to the United Nations pledging to meet the United States’ greenhouse gas emissions targets under the Paris climate accord, despite President Trump’s decision to withdraw from the agreement.

The unnamed group — which, so far, includes 30 mayors, three governors, more than 80 university presidents and more than 100 businesses — is negotiating with the United Nations to have its submission accepted alongside contributions to the Paris climate deal by other nations.

“We’re going to do everything America would have done if it had stayed committed,” Michael Bloomberg, the former New York City mayor who is coordinating the effort, said in an interview.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/01/climate/american-cities-climate-standards.html?_r=0

Just because we now have the dumbest son of a ***** every to sit in the Oval Office does not mean that we, the citizens of this great nation, cannot give hime the finger and go our own way. There is nothing at all seditious about cutting our GHG emissions and installing cheaper energy.

They will do everything they can which is exactly zero.

"They will do everything they can which is exactly zero"
Or selling their cleaner air to the Chinese in Spaceballs "Perri Air" cans.

 

[Crick]

Care to present some evidence Mr Bear, that the "anti-trump alliance is crumbling"?

 

[Old Rocks]

A group representing $6.2 trillion of the US economy says they're 'still in' the Paris climate agreement

• Madeleine Sheehan Perkins
  

• Jun. 5, 2017, 6:49 PM
• 14,337

A coalition of US economic, education, and local government leaders announced on Monday they will continue to abide by the Paris agreement regardless of America's withdrawal, forming the We Are Still In movement. The coalition represents 120 million Americans and $6.2 trillion of the US economy.

In total, the group includes 125 cities, 9 states, 902 businesses and investors, and 183 colleges and universities. Over 20 of the businesses who signed on are Fortune 500 companies.

The group penned an open letter on Monday, stating, "The Trump administration's announcement undermines a key pillar in the fight against climate change and damages the world's ability to avoid the most dangerous and costly effects of climate change. Importantly, it is also out of step with what is happening in the United States."

The group declared it will pursue climate goals, "in the absence of leadership by Washington," adding "it is local and state governments, along with businesses, that are primarily responsible for the dramatic decrease in greenhouse gas emissions in recent years. Actions by each group will multiply and accelerate in the years ahead, no matter what policies Washington may adopt."
A group representing $6.2 trillion of the US economy says they're 'still in' the Paris climate agreement

The people are speaking.

 

[skookerasbil]

A group representing $6.2 trillion of the US economy says they're 'still in' the Paris climate agreement

• Madeleine Sheehan Perkins
  

• Jun. 5, 2017, 6:49 PM
• 14,337

A coalition of US economic, education, and local government leaders announced on Monday they will continue to abide by the Paris agreement regardless of America's withdrawal, forming the We Are Still In movement. The coalition represents 120 million Americans and $6.2 trillion of the US economy.

In total, the group includes 125 cities, 9 states, 902 businesses and investors, and 183 colleges and universities. Over 20 of the businesses who signed on are Fortune 500 companies.

The group penned an open letter on Monday, stating, "The Trump administration's announcement undermines a key pillar in the fight against climate change and damages the world's ability to avoid the most dangerous and costly effects of climate change. Importantly, it is also out of step with what is happening in the United States."

The group declared it will pursue climate goals, "in the absence of leadership by Washington," adding "it is local and state governments, along with businesses, that are primarily responsible for the dramatic decrease in greenhouse gas emissions in recent years. Actions by each group will multiply and accelerate in the years ahead, no matter what policies Washington may adopt."
A group representing $6.2 trillion of the US economy says they're 'still in' the Paris climate agreement

The people are speaking.

People speaking is cool I guess but lets see how well they do in coming up with 100 billion dollars in the next 24 months......for most of the $$ to go to corrupt governments that don't even need it!!

http://dailysignal.com/2017/06/01/4-reasons-trump-right-pull-paris-agreement/

 

[Old Rocks]

That is not their goal. The goal is to reduce emissions in this nation. And that goal is being achieved as we speak.

The Rise of Wind Power in Texas
Wind’s competitiveness in the Lone Star State has been helped by the expansion of transmission capacity and market reforms

During a visit yesterday to the Harvey mine in Sycamore, Pa., U.S. EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt declared that “the war on coal is done.” But if the regulatory battle is over, the fight in coal’s largest domestic market has just begun.

Wind generation accounted for nearly 23 percent of power generation for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) in the first quarter of 2017, the Lone Star State grid operator said this week.

The announcement marks the highest quarterly wind penetration in ERCOT’s history and underscores the market challenges facing the coal industry in Texas, where power plants consumed some 86 million tons of the black mineral in 2015, or more than double the next largest coal-consuming state.

“It’s just one more data point in renewables’ march to greater market share,” said Michael Webber, deputy director of the Energy Institute at the University of Texas, Austin.

ERCOT is the primary grid operator in Texas, where it serves 24 million customers.

The Rise of Wind Power in Texas

23% of the power for the largest grid operator in Texas in the first quarter of this year.