Parents Of Michigan High School Shooting Suspect Charged With Four Counts Of Involuntary Manslaughter

[Biff_Poindexter]

Oh.... It seems someone helped them get access to the basement they were hiding in...that person could be charged too?? WTF??

These cops and DA's are out of control

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Being arrested in the basement of an industrial building in Detroit doesn't seem like they were turning themselves in...


Also, while I don't think the parents should have been charged...the more I hear about them, the less I sympathize with them....how do you hire an attorney for yourself but leave your son with a public defender??

Hmmmmm.
Can't help but draw a comparison to a former politician from NYC.

 

[Nuthin' Fancy]

Oh.... It seems someone helped them get access to the basement they were hiding in...that person could be charged too?? WTF??

These cops and DA's are out of control

Harboring a fugitive.

Harboring a fugitive refers to the crime of knowingly hiding a wanted criminal from the authorities.
Federal and state laws, which vary by state, govern the crime of harboring a fugitive.
Although supplying funds may make one an accessory after the fact, supplying financial assistance to a fugitive does not rise to the level of harboring or concealing.
The federal statute, 18 U.S.C. § 1071, requires proof of four elements: (1) proof that a federal warrant had been issued for the fugitive' s arrest, (2) that the accused had knowledge that a warrant had been issued, (3) that the accused actually harbored or concealed the fugitive, and (4) that the accused intended to prevent the fugitive' s discovery or arrest.

Michigan thinks they may have a case.

MCL 750.199 Harboring a Fugitive statute amended to include persons for whom there are arrest warrants Effective September 28, 2006 PA 242 of 2006 amends MCL 750.199 by making it a crime to harbor a person for whom there are certain arrest warrants. The previous version of the statute only criminalized the act of harboring a person who escaped custody.

www.michigan.gov>documents>msp

 

[braalian]

I was prepared to feel sympathy for the parents when this story first broke, but every single thing they have done reveals them to be terrible people.

They ignored the school’s crystal clear evidence that their son’s a dangerous psycho. And refused to take him home when it was obvious he was planning a shooting. (I’m still not clear why the school, at this point, didn’t call the police or at least detain him until social services could grab him but that’s another story).

I don’t think private citizens should be forced to lock up their guns in their own home, but giving what we *know* they knew about their son…. yeah, it was criminally negligent. You don’t provide access to a gun to a teenager that has demonstrated psychosis and homicidal ideation. And that’s just what has been documented as being brought to their attention. You know they saw him say and do far more weird shit than that.

And on top of all that, they try to escape the police, abandoning their son and their responsibilities, and retain their own lawyer while leaving their son with a public defender.

 

[SweetSue92]

I was prepared to feel sympathy for the parents when this story first broke, but every single thing they have done reveals them to be terrible people.

They ignored the school’s crystal clear evidence that their son’s a dangerous psycho. And refused to take him home when it was obvious he was planning a shooting. (I’m still not clear why the school, at this point, didn’t call the police or at least detain him until social services could grab him but that’s another story).

I don’t think private citizens should be forced to lock up their guns in their own home, but giving what we *know* they knew about their son…. yeah, it was criminally negligent. You don’t provide access to a gun to a teenager that has demonstrated psychosis and homicidal ideation. And that’s just what has been documented as being brought to their attention. You know they saw him say and do far more weird shit than that.

And on top of all that, they try to escape the police, abandoning their son and their responsibilities, and retain their own lawyer while leaving their son with a public defender.

All of this. All of it

The parents seemed to do everything wrong at nearly every step, from what I can gather.

The school, OTOH, did everything RIGHT at every step right down the line. The teacher saw, reported, and sent on. There was a meeting. Parents called. Parents told "take your kid". Parents refused.

That final step was the mistake, for sure, but as in all things hindsight is 20/20 and there is always a sense of distraction and a million things going on in school. Probably the kid was sitting in the office for a while, someone finally remembered he had been there and said 'Okay Ethan, go back to class'. This is how these things happen.

 

[braalian]

All of this. All of it

The parents seemed to do everything wrong at nearly every step, from what I can gather.

The school, OTOH, did everything RIGHT at every step right down the line. The teacher saw, reported, and sent on. There was a meeting. Parents called. Parents told "take your kid". Parents refused.

That final step was the mistake, for sure, but as in all things hindsight is 20/20 and there is always a sense of distraction and a million things going on in school. Probably the kid was sitting in the office for a while, someone finally remembered he had been there and said 'Okay Ethan, go back to class'. This is how these things happen.

yeah, the shooting happened so soon after that conference that scenario seems possible.

I’m also very suspicious of the parents’ actions immediately after the conference at the school. The mother texted « Ethan don’t do it » literally a minute after the news of the shooting hit any public news sources. She either texted him before she even heard the news or she was glued to the TV/phone because she feared what was coming.

I think they left that conference shitting their pants because they knew: a) their son is a psycho, b) the school just showed them his drawing/note explicitly saying he wanted to shoot his classmates, and c) they bought a pistol days earlier as a present for him.

I think they went home fearing they’d find the pistol missing, found it was indeed missing and half assedley tried to cover their asses. The father didn’t report the gun missing until 10-15 min after the mother texted the son. Why the delay? Why hadn’t they mentioned that they recently bought their son a gun in the meeting about their son writing about shooting up the fucking school?

I think they left that meeting with a big suspicion about what was going to happen in a couple hours.

Their little “fugitives on the run” bit that came after the shooting fits in with this.

 

[Penelope]

CNN Breaking News: Parents arrested in Detroit.

Parents of alleged school shooter taken into custody​

The parents seem to more to blame than the son.

 

[braalian]

The parents seem to more to blame than the son.

Well, the person most to blame is the person who did the shooting.

But, yeah, at best the parents were unbelievably stupid and oblivious. At worst they knowingly failed to act because they feared the consequences for themselves.

 

[BoSoxGal]

People want to blame the school. The school did everything right up until the final step, which would have been not sending him back to class. However, since the parents refused to take him home, at that point it would have required getting the cops involved. That is always a heavy decision. They obviously should have done that, but the greater misdeeds clearly belong to the parents at every single step.

The school was lacking critical information to make the right decision to suspend him immediately. I’m sure had they known he had just been gifted a semiautomatic handgun and that mom and dad couldn’t verify its whereabouts at that moment, they would have ejected him from the building. Mom and dad knew, and despite the two incidents of serious concern, didn’t bother to ask to see inside his backpack. Utter failure of parenting. Hopefully a couple of juries and judges will send them away for the maximum possible sentence.

 

[BoSoxGal]

Being arrested in the basement of an industrial building in Detroit doesn't seem like they were turning themselves in...


Also, while I don't think the parents should have been charged...the more I hear about them, the less I sympathize with them....how do you hire an attorney for yourself but leave your son with a public defender??

Public defenders are in some cases a better choice than a private defense attorney, whatever lay people’s misconceptions might be. I assert this as a former prosecutor AND public defender myself. In this kid's case, there is no defense that will result in anything but a very lengthy term of imprisonment - the kid’s life is over and not even the most expensive or most experienced defense attorney in the state of Michigan can alter that reality. At best the defense might be able to present mitigation at sentencing but I don’t see the very high burden being met for any kind of insanity defense under Michigan law - insanity defenses are so very rarely successful that it is functionally appropriate to assert that they never work anymore.
The parents have a much much greater shot at acquittal in their case and so it is far more logical to invest in a private defense attorney to represent them, assuming they hold the view that public defenders aren’t good (some of them are very good, and some private defense attorneys are very bad). The parents are likely to receive financial support in their case from other irresponsible gun owners, maybe even from the NRA as this unfolds.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Public defenders are in some cases a better choice than a private defense attorney, whatever lay people’s misconceptions might be. I assert this as a former prosecutor AND public defender myself. In this kid's case, there is no defense that will result in anything but a very lengthy term of imprisonment - the kid’s life is over and not even the most expensive or most experienced defense attorney in the state of Michigan can alter that reality. At best the defense might be able to present mitigation at sentencing but I don’t see the very high burden being met for any kind of insanity defense under Michigan law - insanity defenses are so very rarely successful that it is functionally appropriate to assert that they never work anymore.
The parents have a much much greater shot at acquittal in their case and so it is far more logical to invest in a private defense attorney to represent them, assuming they hold the view that public defenders aren’t good (some of them are very good, and some private defense attorneys are very bad). The parents are likely to receive financial support in their case from other irresponsible gun owners, maybe even from the NRA as this unfolds.

Why can't those 2A advocates help the parent defend their child as well??

I'm sure with effort, this kid can be turned into a cause-celeb

 

[BoSoxGal]

Why can't those 2A advocates help the parent defend their child as well??

I'm sure with effort, this kid can be turned into a cause-celeb

There is no factual defense - he is on CCTV in the school hallway gunning down his schoolmates at point blank range. I’m sure any competent defense attorney, public defender included, will request a mental health evaluation; however as I already stated, the insanity defense is functionally nonexistent in Michigan having been gutted by the decision in Carpenter. Insanity defenses are very rarely successful in the USA - which is not a point of pride, we are regressive and archaic in our treatment of the mentally ill in our criminal justice system. We are too fixated on vengeance and exhibit little compassion in the system for the plight of the mentally ill, all the more reprehensible because we put far too little resources toward addressing the needs of the mentally ill in our society. The Andrea Yates case is one of the very rare examples of a successful insanity defense and even that took multiple trials to achieve ‘success’, despite a clear record that she was severely mentally ill when she killed all her children.

 

[August West]

I`ve heard that MTG and Matt Gaetz have offered jobs to whole Crumbley family.

 

[Notaradical60]

If they consider the kid an adult, then why are other adults who didn't kill anyone being accused of killing someone?
My parents weren't responsible for, and didn't know about 90% of the shit I did as a kid...

It's apparent from all of the reports I've heard there were serious concerns about this boys mental health that the school ( probably woke admin it is Michigan) knew about. When you "suspect" your dog has rabies you don't put it back in the kennel with other animals. He got the gun from home he was given access to the targets by the School administration ! Which administrator is being charged with 4 counts of manslaughter or do they have sovereign immunity being public employees?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

You don't see it today. Somebody would steal the heck out of them while you were in class.

Probably true... but again... same question.
Why now. and not then.
This is a question that is screaming to be acknowledged. But few do.
To acknowledge it, is to self examine. To be critical of how we are living our lives, the shallowness of our culture and ourselves.

 

[August West]

It's apparent from all of the reports I've heard there were serious concerns about this boys mental health that the school ( probably woke admin it is Michigan) knew about. When you "suspect" your dog has rabies you don't put it back in the kennel with other animals. He got the gun from home he was given access to the targets by the School administration ! Which administrator is being charged with 4 counts of manslaughter or do they have sovereign immunity being public employees?

Everyone who isn`t a MAGA is woke? Every well trained parrot deserves a cracker. This was the fault of the school and not the parents? This kind of stupidity shouldn`t be laughed at but I`ll do it anyway.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

I was prepared to feel sympathy for the parents when this story first broke, but every single thing they have done reveals them to be terrible people.

They ignored the school’s crystal clear evidence that their son’s a dangerous psycho. And refused to take him home when it was obvious he was planning a shooting. (I’m still not clear why the school, at this point, didn’t call the police or at least detain him until social services could grab him but that’s another story).

I don’t think private citizens should be forced to lock up their guns in their own home, but giving what we *know* they knew about their son…. yeah, it was criminally negligent. You don’t provide access to a gun to a teenager that has demonstrated psychosis and homicidal ideation. And that’s just what has been documented as being brought to their attention. You know they saw him say and do far more weird shit than that.

And on top of all that, they try to escape the police, abandoning their son and their responsibilities, and retain their own lawyer while leaving their son with a public defender.

And they didn't secure their gun.

 

[Crepitus]

It could simply show a couple of out of touch parents.

Handing your car keys to a drunk will get you the same charge.

 

[22lcidw]

I`ve heard that MTG and Matt Gaetz have offered jobs to whole Crumbley family.

These things did not happen at these rates before Progs took control of the nation. The Prog broads are destroying us.

 

[August West]

These things did not happen at these rates before Progs took control of the nation. The Prog broads are destroying us.

The parents of this kid are progressives? Do all progs buy guns for their kids to take to school? You`re making less sense than you usually do. Were those progs beating up the police and smearing shit on the walls of our Capitol?