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Parents Of Michigan High School Shooting Suspect Charged With Four Counts Of Involuntary Manslaughter

Coyote

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Lastamender

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What do you mean "these" parents? Oh, you're going with the Trumpster Persecution Complex™. Yeah, that's the ticket. They're only being charged because they're Trump supporters! It's a deep state conspiracy! The parents are heroes!
I am not going with anything. Where do you get this crap from?
 

Who_Me?

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They probably should have arrested the parents and hauled them in before announcing charges in a press conference. The parents skidaddled and they've outrun the sheriff. Not a bright move but in looking at their picture they both seem to be one banana short of a bunch.

Their actions really tell me that they don't give a hoot about their son, they're trying to save their own white trash asses. That is probably the underlying theme of why this kid is the way he is.
 

M14 Shooter

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Under MI law, there are three elements to a manslaughter charge:

1638584684243.png


(1) did not happen.
The charge cannot be proven.

 

M14 Shooter

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They are not required to, but if they do not they can be held liable...

You may be criminally and civilly liable for any harm caused by a person less than 18 years of age who lawfully gains unsupervised access to your firearm if unlawfully stored.
As there are no storage requirements in the state of MI, the firearm was lawfully stored.
 

Biff_Poindexter

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So the parents withdrew $4000 from their account via ATM transactions...

The marshals are still searching...

How long does it take to turn yourself in; if that is what their lawyer has been telling us for hours
 

M14 Shooter

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meaner gene

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This is quite a stretch the prosecution is trying to make with regard to the parents being criminally negligent.

Parents can’t be punished for the bad acts of their children; that the parent’s conduct was ‘negligent’ contributing to the deaths of the students isn’t consistent with other applications of the law – such as killing someone while driving drunk. A drunk driver doesn’t intend to kill someone, but the drunk driver was the one who did the drinking and driving.

Charging the parents with a felony with up to 15 years in prison isn’t warranted.

They purchased the gun, as a christmas present, and let him unwrap it long before christmas. They taught him to shoot it, and left it where he could find it. They played a key role in enabling the shooting to take place. The classic "if not for" argument.
 

hadit

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So what's the point in charging him as an adult, then?

That's a serious question. I really don't understand the logic. Of course, I'm not a lawyer either, so.
They want it both ways, for him to be an adult so they can throw the book at him and for him to be a minor so they can go after his parents too.
 

M14 Shooter

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They purchased the gun, as a christmas present, and let him unwrap it long before christmas. They taught him to shoot it, and left it where he could find it. They played a key role in enabling the shooting to take place. The classic "if not for" argument.
Perahps -- but under MI law, they are not criminally liable for the shooting.
 

meaner gene

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A misdemeanor conviction and a fine – not a felony conviction and 15 years in prison.

There’s a lot of baseless speculation as what the parents knew or didn’t know, what they should have done but didn’t do, and their intent concerning their son’s actions.

The involuntary manslaughter charges are an emotional response seeking to vilify the parents in the context of the anger and outrage of the shooting – charging the 15-year-old as an adult isn’t enough; the parents should have ‘done something,’ they should have ‘seen this coming.’

And their punishment for not being prescient is a felony charge.


Sheriff: Oxford High School shooting suspect used gun dad bought on Black Friday
Dave Boucher
Detroit Free Press






The 15-year-old Oxford High School sophomore accused of fatally shooting three classmates and injuring at least eight other people used a handgun his dad purchased four days earlier on Black Friday, Oakland County Sheriff Mike Bouchard said late Tuesday evening.

The weapon used was a 9mm Sig Sauer SP 2022 pistol, Bouchard said. The suspect, Ethan Crumbley, had three, 15-round magazines. That includes 11 rounds in the handgun and magazine and another seven in his pocket when authorities apprehended the suspect.


Maybe he got a good deal on friday, but a sig sauer is easily a $600 gun. The most expensive gift I got for Christmas was a bicycle. And I had to wait until Christmas morning.
 

dblack

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Under MI law, there are three elements to a manslaughter charge:

View attachment 571484

(1) did not happen.
The charge cannot be proven.

They're victims of the woke mob! Just like Kyle Rittenhouse and Aaron Rodgers. They're heroes!
 
Last edited:

Fort Fun Indiana

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Under MI law, there are three elements to a manslaughter charge:

View attachment 571484

(1) did not happen.
The charge cannot be proven.

Neat, but they are charged with involuntary manslaughter.
 

meaner gene

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Under MI law, there are three elements to a manslaughter charge:

View attachment 571484

(1) did not happen.
The charge cannot be proven.
2(c) Created a situation where the risk of serious bodily injury or death was very high ...

Giving a 15 year old a 9mm pistol, and after being told he was searching for extra ammunition, an obvious tell he intended to shoot it outside of parental control, did nothing to secure the gun.
 

Mac-7

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Other countries do it. Or are you suggesting everyone is mentally ill that owns a gun?
We are not other countries

Americans have constitutional rights that people in other countries do not have
 

excalibur

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There appears to be no actual law in Michigan that the parents broke under which they have been charged.


... The imperative of charging Ethan Crumbley (because he is in custody) did not mean that there was similar urgency to make a charging decision about his parents. That could and should have waited.

...

Several states have so-called CAP (child-access prevention) laws that make it a crime for adults to allow children to have unsupervised access to firearms. Such laws have repeatedly been proposed in Michigan, but the legislature has opted not to enact them. Moreover, while prosecutors insisted, in announcing their involuntary-manslaughter charges, that the pistol should have been locked away, with a safety mechanism clipped in place and the ammunition kept separate, there is no such mandate in state law. And, the passion of anti-gun advocates notwithstanding, if such a law were enacted it would face stiff constitutional challenges.

Now, with the legislature having refused to criminalize the conduct in which the Crumbley parents engaged, the prosecutors — whose actual job is to enforce the legislature’s laws — are attempting in the heat of the moment to criminalize the conduct themselves.

It is one thing to say that the parents were egregiously derelict — just as, for example, store owners are egregiously derelict when they sell to suspicious characters substances (including explosive powders) that can be used to make bombs. But that does not make the parents’ conduct a criminal violation, much less make them responsible for homicide — a much more serious crime, even in the form of involuntary manslaughter, than the CAP crime that Michigan has refused to codify.

The Crumbley parents may be looking at significant civil liability, and deservedly so. But we are not supposed to make criminal law by having prosecutors concoct it on the fly. We should particularly resist prosecutorial creativity in the immediate aftermath of an emotionally charged tragedy such as this one. And when legislatures do codify a crime, it should be calibrated to the wrong actually done by the action or omission, not to the horrific downstream consequences. What happened at Oxford High School may have been foreseeable in some abstract sense, but it was certainly not foreseen in concrete reality.

There is already enough tragedy here. Distorting the law to make it fit our sense of outrage can only make matters immeasurably worse in the long run.


 

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