Parents Of Michigan High School Shooting Suspect Charged With Four Counts Of Involuntary Manslaughter

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Hey guys! Did you know most gun crimes are committed by criminals?

 

[candycorn]

If history serves as a guide...

Every trump supporter will line up behind the parents...

 

[meaner gene]

Perahps -- but under MI law, they are not criminally liable for the shooting.

They aren't being charged with the shooting, they're being charged with the killing. After all, they purchased the murder weapon, and facilitated his training.

 

[Quasar44]

Astrostar
The parents should get life
They’re just as responsible

 

[Quasar44]

meaner gene
What
This creep had gun training
The parents must be sentenced to life

 

[excalibur]

2(c) Created a situation where the risk of serious bodily injury or death was very high ...

Giving a 15 year old a 9mm pistol, and after being told he was searching for extra ammunition, an obvious tell he intended to shoot it outside of parental control, did nothing to secure the gun.

All the elements must be met. They are not.

 

[excalibur]

So, when are they going to arrest the mother of the Waukesha murderer who bailed her son out?

 

[Lakhota]

Michigan school shooting is 'so egregious,' the suspect's parents are charged. That's rare, experts say.​

The prosecution of the parents of the alleged Michigan high school gunman highlights how rare it is for parents of perpetrators of mass shootings at schools to face charges themselves, legal experts and gun violence prevention groups say.

Parents Jennifer and James Crumbley each face four counts of involuntary manslaughter after prosecutors say their son, Ethan, methodically carried out a shooting rampage Tuesday at Oxford High School, killing four classmates and injuring seven other people.

Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald acknowledged Friday that charges are not often brought against parents in other school shooting cases, but that she intended to hold anyone who contributed to the shooting accountable.

"I am by no means saying that an active shooter situation should always result in a criminal prosecution against parents. But the facts of this case are so egregious," she said at a news conference.

Michigan school shooting is 'so egregious,' the suspect's parents are charged. That's rare, experts say.

The parents of the alleged gunman in the Oxford High School shooting were charged Friday. Prosecuting parents in other cases is rare.

news.yahoo.com

I totally agree!

 

[White 6]

And, once again, a GLARING fact is ignored.
WHY?
I was in High School from 1979 - 1983.
It was common for boys to store guns in gun racks behind their seats.... like this:

View attachment 571373

In any given day I would estimate at my school (student population roughly 2000 - 2200) there was probably 50 rifles and shotguns brought on school campus everyday.
This was true nationwide.
WHY ARE KIDS DOING THIS TODAY AND NOT WHEN GUNS WERE EVERYWHERE??????

There is a cultural/societal reason for this happening... WHY???

You don't see it today. Somebody would steal the heck out of them while you were in class.

 

[BoSoxGal]

Under MI law, there are three elements to a manslaughter charge:

View attachment 571484

(1) did not happen.
The charge cannot be proven.

750.321 and 750.322 Manslaughter – Michigan Legislature - Grabel & Associates - MI Criminal Defense Lawyers

Manslaughter is homicide without the elements of malice and premeditation. Our lawyers have a successful history defending clients charged with all types of homicide. Call 800-342-7896 for a free consultation with a Michigan Criminal Defense Lawyer.

www.grabellaw.com

Wrong, go back to law school and criminal law 101. The defendants’ actions in purchasing and providing access to the gun to their disturbed child was the proximate cause of the murders he committed. As a former prosecutor I can attest that this evidence meets all the elements of the charged offense and a jury can be properly instructed to bring a conviction if they find the facts of the case to be as the state is alleging.

 

[braalian]

A person is guilty of involuntary manslaughter if the prosecutor can prove all of the following elements beyond a reasonable doubt (Michigan Criminal Jury Instruction 16.10):

• First, that the individual caused the death of the victim, that is, that the victim died as a result of the individual’s act.
• Second, in doing the act that caused the victim’s death, the individual acted in a grossly negligent manner OR in doing the act that caused the victim’s death, the individual intended to injure the victim. For example, an individual who commits assault and battery with the intent to inflict injury but instead causes an unintended death, then this amounts to, at least, involuntary manslaughter. People v Datema, 448 Mich 585; 533 NW2d 272 (1995).

Third, that the individual caused the death without lawful excuse or justification.

I think it’s a stretch, legally speaking, to say the victims died as a result of the parents not securing the gun.

With that said, I cant believe the parents *didn’t* secure the gun in light of what they knew about their psycho son:


Just one day before the shooting, a teacher said she saw the boy searching online for ammunition, which prompted a meeting with school officials, Ms McDonald said. After being informed of the incident, Mrs Crumbley texted her son: "LOL I'm not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught."

And on Tuesday morning - hours before the rampage - Mr and Mrs Crumbley were called into the school for an urgent meeting after teachers found a note by their son, including several drawings of guns and bloodied people alongside captions like "the thoughts won't stop. Help me", and "blood everywhere". The boy had also written "My life is useless" and "The world is dead", according to the prosecutor.

 

[braalian]

If your son is looking up ammunition online and drawing pictures of guns and dead bodies with captions that say « the thoughts won’t stop », you take him home from school and to a psychiatric hospital right then and there. I mean, Jesus fucking christ

And when the parents refused to take him home, the school should have kicked him out.

What a clusterfuck. What else did this fucked up kid have to do to make his parents and the school realize he was going to shoot up the school? Send all of them a certified telegram?

 

[BS Filter]

There are a lot of 15 year olds that own firearms. I got a shotgun for Christmas at age 12. Never shot anyone.

 

[meaner gene]

All the elements must be met. They are not.

They met 2(c)

And it's any of the above, not all of the above.

 

[White 6]

Suspect's parents charged with 4 counts of homicide involuntary manslaughter

The parents of the Michigan school shooting suspect have been charged with four counts each of homicide involuntary manslaughter. Follow here for the latest.

www.cnn.com

It looks like the school terrorist's parents in Michigan will be called to account, as well they should be. A 15 year old has no business with a firearm, regardless of the circumstances, nada. Bigly

This horrible story has gotten truly bizarre after the kid went on a shooting spree, especially in light of it sounding like the parents are in the wind, CNN saying a 10,000 reward has been posted for the parents. Bounty hunting anybody? Their lawyer said the left town for their own security and were returning, but they appearently took $4,000 bucks out of an ATM before they left. I don't take that much cash on vacation, but I would if I did not want to be tracked by credit cards.

The manslaughter charges may fly whether the kid ends up in prison or in a mental institution for the criminally insane. Washington post put information I was not aware of before Meister shut down a new thread on this thing a little while ago, pointing to this existing thread, making me look up breaking news on the case.

At Friday’s news conference, McDonald revealed that teachers had twice raised concerns to the Crumbleys about their son in recent days — once, when he was seen searching for ammunition online during class, and again when a disturbing and violent drawing was found in his desk. In a meeting with school administrators just hours before the shooting Tuesday, the parents “resisted the idea of their son leaving the school” and did not tell school officials that Ethan had access to a gun, McDonald said.

McDonald also read social media posts from the family, describing how Jennifer Crumbley boasted on Facebook that they had bought their son “his new Christmas present,” a 9mm Sig Sauer SP 2022 pistol, last week. “My new beauty,” Ethan called it on Instagram.

Authorities also disclosed new information about the gun on Friday: The pistol, purchased by James Crumbley on Nov. 26, was stored in an unlocked drawer in the parents’ bedroom, McDonald said. An employee of ACME Shooting Goods in Oxford, Mich., confirmed that Ethan accompanied his father for the purchase.

Jennifer Crumbley and her son both appeared to brag about the new gun in various social media posts McDonald cited. Shortly after his father bought the gun, Ethan Crumbley posted a photo of it to his Instagram page writing a caption interspersed with heart emoji that read, “just got my new beauty today, Sig Sauer nine millimeter. Any questions I will answer.”

Jennifer Crumbley captioned a post of her own on social media that read: “Mom and son day testing out his new Christmas present.” McDonald told The Washington Post that the post was a reference to a visit the two made to a gun range.

Three days after the gun was purchased — a day before the shooting — a teacher noticed Crumbley using his cellphone to search for information on firearm ammunition. Jennifer Crumbley did not respond when the school contacted her via voice mail about her son’s “inappropriate” search, McDonald said.

Instead, she exchanged a text message with her son that read, “LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.”

The school’s concerns grew more acute the morning of the shooting. The Crumbleys had been summoned to a meeting by school administrators after a teacher found a troubling note in Ethan’s desk, McDonald said. It contained a drawing of a semiautomatic handgun pointing at the words “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me.”

Another section of the note had a drawing of a bullet with the words, “blood everywhere.” There was also a drawing of a bloody figure with two gunshot wounds, McDonald said, and another drawing of a laughing emoji.

Ethan altered the note, McDonald said, scratching out the most disturbing parts of it by the time the meeting with his parents began shortly after 10 a.m. on Tuesday. McDonald said the teen brought his backpack to the counselor’s office and noted that at no point did his parents ask about the recently purchased gun. McDonald said neither the Crumbleys nor school officials searched the teen’s backpack.

The Crumbleys “resisted the idea of their son leaving the school at that time,” McDonald said. Instead, Ethan returned to class with his backpack.

Less than three hours later, the first 911 calls poured in about shots fired at the school.

“Ethan, don’t do it,” Jennifer Crumbley texted to her son when news of the active shooting went public, McDonald said. Moments after the text, McDonald said James Crumbley drove home to check on his son’s gun kept in the couple’s bedroom. When he found it missing, he called to report it to 911 and said his son might be the shooter.

Authorities hunt for parents of Mich. school-shooting suspect after charging them with involuntary manslaughter

I suspect the parents are toast on the manslaughter charges if that prosecutor can get it in front of a jury. I expect defense is going to want a change of venue out of that small town.

I have no children in the home, but granddaughters visit. I may have to reconsider my own weapons security. More stringent liability laws may be coming to us all, even way down here in Tennessee, the "Patron state of shooting stuff" as called in the movie "Shooter".

 

[meaner gene]

There are a lot of 15 year olds that own firearms. I got a shotgun for Christmas at age 12. Never shot anyone.

It's legal for a 12 year old to own a shotgun. It's against federal law for someone under 18 to own or possess a handgun, except for supervised use or target practice.

 

[Lakhota]

The Michigan School Shooter Is Charged With Terrorism. Here's Why That's So Unusual.​

It’s not difficult to look at mass shootings in America and describe them as “terrorism.” But as far as the law is concerned, there’s no national consensus. There remains no federal statute against domestic terrorism, meaning that prosecutors have to rely on other charges in order to put the offender behind bars — even though most Americans think there should be such a statute.

Some states like Michigan, however, have anti-terrorism laws on the books that are broad enough to potentially cover mass shootings and label them as “terrorism” on a state level.

“It’s not a usual, a typical charge,” Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald said of the terrorism count on Wednesday after reading the names of the deceased.

She said that when her team sat down to talk about the charges that would be applicable in the shooter’s case, one question lingered: “What about all these other children?”

“What about all the children who ran, screaming, hiding under desks?” McDonald asked. “What about all the children at home right now who can’t eat and can’t sleep, and can’t imagine a world where they could ever set foot back in that school? Those are victims, too, and so are their families, and so is the community,” she said. “And the charge of terrorism reflects that.”

Matthew Schneider, a former federal prosecutor who was involved in the 2012 case, told HuffPost that part of the reason mass shooters aren’t slapped with terrorism charges very often is because anti-terrorism statutes “aren’t really all that old” compared to, say, murder statutes.

“I do think we will be seeing this [terrorism] charge more frequently,” Schneider said. Wiese also said that he could see other states modeling anti-terrorism statutes similar to the one in Michigan.

In another fairly novel step, McDonald is also going after Crumbley’s parents in connection with the Oxford school shooting incident. Both James and Jennifer Crumbley were charged Friday with four counts each of involuntary manslaughter.

“I think that’s a legitimate charge, based on the facts here,” Schneider said, adding that it might also be “something we’ll see more and more.”

Why It's So Unusual To See A School Shooter Charged With Terrorism

Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald acknowledged that the charge is not "typical."

www.huffpost.com

Yep, the little killer is definitely also a terrorist.

 

[Lakhota]

CNN Breaking News: Parents arrested in Detroit.

Parents of alleged school shooter taken into custody​

 

[SweetSue92]

People want to blame the school. The school did everything right up until the final step, which would have been not sending him back to class. However, since the parents refused to take him home, at that point it would have required getting the cops involved. That is always a heavy decision. They obviously should have done that, but the greater misdeeds clearly belong to the parents at every single step.

 

[Biff_Poindexter]

Being arrested in the basement of an industrial building in Detroit doesn't seem like they were turning themselves in...


Also, while I don't think the parents should have been charged...the more I hear about them, the less I sympathize with them....how do you hire an attorney for yourself but leave your son with a public defender??