Parents in red-leaning suburbs outside NYC green-lighting armed security at public schools

[Failzero]

A p

Works for me.

But that's the whole point, the whole screening process for buying a gun is too lax.

A piss test would have caught Hunter.
So would have talking to anyone in his life, who might have been concerned he had a gun. (In fact, this whole thing started because his girlfriend at the time, threw out his gun because she thought he might self-harm.)

A piss test would have caught 7 out of every ten Mass Shooters of the last 30 years

 

[JoeB131]

They did not follow their own protocol.

We do have common sense gun laws in place and also protocols for other agencies such as the FBI to follow in cases such as this.

The FBI failed to follow their own rules.


The FBI said the tip should have been assessed as “a potential threat to life” and forwarded to the Miami Field Office. This would have led to additional “investigative steps,” which were not conducted.

We don't have common sense if Nicholas Cruz could buy one.

What the FBI did or didn't do, in following up some crazy on facebook, is kind of meaningless. They probably get millions of Social Media tips.

 

[Failzero]

A p

A piss test would have caught 7 out of every ten Mass Shooters of the last 30 years

Bump for effect

 

[DukeU]

We don't have common sense if Nicholas Cruz could buy one.

What the FBI did or didn't do, in following up some crazy on facebook, is kind of meaningless. They probably get millions of Social Media tips.

And it's their job to follow up on the tips and reports they get.

Isn't this what you were advocating for a few posts back?

Which you don't need to do. You can simply talk to his neighbors, family and employers, and find out if they are crazy or not. You can have Red Flag laws with real teeth in them. The government takes your guns if you are reported and you have to get a shrink to certify that you are sane and your wife is a bitch.

 

[JoeB131]

And it's their job to follow up on the tips and reports they get.

Isn't this what you were advocating for a few posts back?

Nope, it's not the FBI's job to do background checks for guns. It's the ATF's.

But I had a much simpler solution. Make the gun industry responsible for background checks, and make them 100% liable when they sell to the wrong person.

 

[DukeU]

Nope, it's not the FBI's job to do background checks for guns.

Who said it was?

But I had a much simpler solution. Make the gun industry responsible for background checks, and make them 100% liable when they sell to the wrong person.

Should the ATF be held responsible for Nikolas Cruz?

 

[JoeB131]

Who said it was?




Should the ATF be held responsible for Nikolas Cruz?

Nope, the Gun Industry should be. The ATF is a toothless tiger by design.

 

[DukeU]

Nope, the Gun Industry should be. The ATF is a toothless tiger by design.

Thought so.

 

[hadit]

I'm trying to make sense of a place where schools are policed by armed LEO.


Can't do it.

Until recently, they weren't. It is in living memory that kids could bring a gun to school and hunt on the way home. They could take shooting classes in school, firing live ammo. No cops were necessary. Firearms and ammo could be ordered and delivered through the mail with no background checks, just send money. You could park your truck anywhere with multiple guns in a rack in the back window. Guess what we did NOT have? School shootings. Today, guns scare the snot out of people, make them run screaming the other direction if they even see one. You can't buy a firearm without first giving up your identity, having your background checked and waiting a while. In many places, you can't have a gun with you or anywhere near you. Guess what we have? School shootings.

What changed? Not guns.

 

[JoeB131]

Thought so.

I'm just being blunt. Gun laws in this country are lax. That's why people like Cruz get guns.

Every time there is a mass shooting, we find out two things.

Everyone in the Shooter's life knew he (or she, or they) were nuts.

They still had absolutely no problem acquiring a gun.

So instead of making it hard for the mentally ill to get treatment and easy for them to get guns, let's make it easy for them to get treatment and HARD for them to get guns.

 

[DukeU]

So instead of making it hard for the mentally ill to get treatment and easy for them to get guns, let's make it easy for them to get treatment and HARD for them to get guns.

I agree.

The question is how?

Nikolas Cruz was reported for having mental problems, threats of killing people, etc.

The FBI chose not to follow through with their investigation, the system failed.

How will a new system be any better? It takes people doing their jobs to make a difference.

They chose not to in this case.

 

[JoeB131]

I agree.

The question is how?

Nikolas Cruz was reported for having mental problems, threats of killing people, etc.

The FBI chose not to follow through with their investigation, the system failed.

How will a new system be any better? It takes people doing their jobs to make a difference.

They chose not to in this case.

Not the FBI's job.

Again, great system. Hold the gun makers accountable through civil lawsuits. Then they will do what the banks do now when you get a mortgage- they'll give you a colonoscopy to make sure you aren't a nut.

Now they are free of liability, skirt around the system to hand out guns like Halloween candy, and when there's a mass shooting, that just makes the straights want to own guns.

 

[2aguy]

1) So you admit, most cases, the Mad Shooter outshoots the "Good guy".
2) Background checks are ineffective because the Gun Lobby wants them to be.
3) We lock up 2 million people. Locking people up isn't an answer.

No.....when good people are prohibited by law from having a gun in a gun free zone, they can't shoot back...

When they have their guns, they can, and do shoot and stop the attacker.

Gun background checks are ineffective for mass public shooters because most of the time, they have committed no crime....so they can pass any background check

The government who should be logging actual felonies and involuntary committments...like the mass shooter in Maine, who they released from the psychiatric hospital even though he stated he was hearing voices and planned on doing a mass public shooting.....is a failure of your god, the government, not law abiding gun stores....

The democrat party judges and prosecutors are working over time to release the most violent gun offenders over and over again.......so locking up gun offenders for a day isn't locking them up.

 

[2aguy]

I agree.

The question is how?

Nikolas Cruz was reported for having mental problems, threats of killing people, etc.

The FBI chose not to follow through with their investigation, the system failed.

How will a new system be any better? It takes people doing their jobs to make a difference.

They chose not to in this case.

He wants to make it impossible to get through a background check.....he doesn't want anyone owning or carrying a gun...

Out of over 350 million Americans there were 12 people who committed mass public shootings in 2023......12 also in 2022......

With over 600 million guns and over 22 million people carrying guns for self defense, 12 people is the rarest of rare attack....

Meanwhile, the police know who the vast majority of the shooters are in the 19,000 gun murders from 2023.....they have arrested those shooters over and over again....they are convicted felons who can't pass any background check...at all.......they are known, they have been arrested, and they have been released by democrat party prosecutors and judges......over and over again...

Law abiding gun owners are not the problem...but keeping them from buying and owning guns is easier than stopping actual criminals.....especially if the democrats refuse to keep them locked up.

Joe wants to use 12 individuals to ban guns for millions of Americans.......

 

[Failzero]

Nope, the Gun Industry should be. The ATF is a toothless tiger by design.

total bs ( I live in California )

 

[2aguy]

They did not follow their own protocol.

We do have common sense gun laws in place and also protocols for other agencies such as the FBI to follow in cases such as this.

The FBI failed to follow their own rules.


The FBI said the tip should have been assessed as “a potential threat to life” and forwarded to the Miami Field Office. This would have led to additional “investigative steps,” which were not conducted.

Don't forget the Maine shooter.....he was in a psychiatric hosptial where he told the Doctors he was hearing voices and wanted to do a mass public shooting.....the Doctors informed his National Guard chain of command who then contacted the police.....

And he was released from the hospital.....and the police let him walk around free......

Joe is full of shit....background checks are not the issue.

Tell us how background checks over come this level of government incompetence...

• May 3:The gunman's family contacts the Sagadahoc County Sheriff's Department concerned about his wellbeing and reports he had firearms.
  • Sheriff says they contacted his Army Reserve training group and were assured the man would get the medical attention he needed.
• July 15: The shooter and other members of the Army Reserve’s 3rd Battalion, 304th Infantry Unit were in New York for training when he accused several of them of calling him a pedophile, shoved one of them and locked himself in his motel room. The next morning, he told another soldier that he wanted people to stop talking about him. New York State Police responded and took him to a hospital at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point for an evaluation. He spent 14 days at the Four Winds Psychiatric Hospital in Katonah, New York, which is a few miles from West Point.
• Aug. 3: The gunman returned home, according to the Army. At that time, the Army directed that while on duty, he shouldn't be allowed to have a weapon, handle ammunition or participate in live-fire activity. It also declared him to be non-deployable.
• Aug. 5: The shooter went to Coastal Defense Firearms in Auburn, next to Lewiston, to pick up a gun suppressor, or silencer, that he had ordered online, according to the shop's owner, Rick LaChapelle. Card was polite when notified of the denial, mentioned something about the military and said he would “come right back” after consulting his lawyer, LaChapelle said.
• September: His training group asks the sheriff’s department for a wellness check.
• Sept. 15-16: A sheriff's deputy goes to the man's home but he is not there. They file an attempt to locate with other law enforcement agencies.
  • The alert included a warning that the gunman was known to be armed and dangerous and included details of his behavior. It also urged officers to use extreme caution.
  • The Sagadahoc County deputy then made contact with the gunman's unit commander, who said that the man no longer had any weapons from the reserve unit. His commander advised that they were trying to him get treatment for and that he thought it best to let him have time to himself.
• Sept. 17: Deputy made contact with the shooter's brother, who said he would work to secure any firearms that he had access to. The deputy also asked that the family call back if they believed that he need an evaluation or was a risk to himself or others.
• Oct. 18: That attempt to locate the gunman was canceled.
• Oct. 25: The man allegedly opens fire at the bowling alley and bar, killing 18 and wounding several more.

TIMELINE: Documents shed light on Lewiston, Maine, mass shooter's history

The NBC10 Boston Investigators received information through a public records request about the red flags that the Lewiston, Maine, gunman’s mental health was declining. The information sheds new light on the deadliest mass shooting in Maine’s history, and the fact that the family of the the...

www.nbcboston.com

New York State Police responded and took him to a hospital at the U.S. Military Academy in West Point for an evaluation. He spent 14 days at the Four Winds Psychiatric Hospital in Katonah, New York, which is a few miles from West Point.


This involuntary committment means he could no longer pass any background check...

 

[JoeB131]

No.....when good people are prohibited by law from having a gun in a gun free zone, they can't shoot back...

When they have their guns, they can, and do shoot and stop the attacker.

Except we have 600 mass shootings a year, and you can maybe find one or two when a "Good guy" stopped it before the body count got too high.

Don't forget the Maine shooter.....he was in a psychiatric hosptial where he told the Doctors he was hearing voices and wanted to do a mass public shooting.....the Doctors informed his National Guard chain of command who then contacted the police.....

And he was released from the hospital.....and the police let him walk around free......

Joe is full of shit....background checks are not the issue.

Nope, sounds like an exact problem.

We can't lock people up for what they say.

We have 70 million Americans with police records and 18% of the population suffers from some kind of mental illness. We can't lock them all up.

We can and should make it harder for these people to get guns.

 

[DukeU]

Not the FBI's job.

Then why did they respond and say they didn't follow procedure?

 

[DukeU]

We can and should make it harder for these people to get guns.

What are you waiting for?

 

[Frankeneinstein]

Australia and the UK didn't have massive gun ownership to start with.

Gun ownership doesn't prevent dictatorship. There was massive gun ownership before Hitler in Germany, and even afterwards. Not a one of them resisted when Hitler came to power. Nobody ran out with his gun that he had been squirreling away since WWI and said, "You can't take Goldstein, he's my friend!!!!"

lol...back in the day you would have been considered a "crackpot", today it would be either "crackhead" or "professor".