papers, please - once again republicans are working against freedom

[Avatar4321]

I have no problem if when someone is under arrest, the authorities check their immigration status as part of procedure of arrest.

But i do have a problem with authorities simply walking up to people, demanding papers, and arresting them if they don't produce.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

since when do people have to carry ID in america at all times? since when could police threaten people with arrest simple because they think they are in the couuntry illegally? how many mexican american citizens will go to jail and face charges, ffines, and court dates unnecessarily once this is enforced?

If you're an United States citizen then you should have some form of ID on you, pretty much all the time. I never go anywhere without my driver's license. If you get cought without an ID then you should be held until you can provide documention or until they can determine just who the hell you are.

Don't you think it's important to know who is in our country and whether or not they have a legal right to be here?

No citizen will go to jail or pay a fine unless they are guilty of something. Not having an ID will not get you arrested, it will get you detained until it's determined who you are and whether you have a legal right to be here. So basically those American citizens that don't carry any form of ID will be inconvenienced at most.

How hard is that to understand?

When was this a legal requirement?

It will be when the bill passes.

 

[Nosmo King]

Lets see arresting people for breaking the law, that's not really a novel idea. It has been going on for a while now.

Why does that upset you?

since when do people have to carry ID in america at all times? since when could police threaten people with arrest simple because they think they are in the couuntry illegally? how many mexican american citizens will go to jail and face charges, ffines, and court dates unnecessarily once this is enforced?

If you're an United States citizen then you should have some form of ID on you, pretty much all the time. I never go anywhere without my driver's license. If you get cought without an ID then you should be held until you can provide documention or until they can determine just who the hell you are.

Don't you think it's important to know who is in our country and whether or not they have a legal right to be here?

No citizen will go to jail or pay a fine unless they are guilty of something. Not having an ID will not get you arrested, it will get you detained until it's determined who you are and whether you have a legal right to be here. So basically those American citizens that don't carry any form of ID will be inconvenienced at most.

How hard is that to understand?

Thus the argument for racial profiling. And the minority community has nothing to fear but police harassment. Just an inconvenience, doncha know.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

FOXNews.com - Arizona Immigration Enforcement Bill Stirs National Debate



so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom

Lets see arresting people for breaking the law, that's not really a novel idea. It has been going on for a while now.

Why does that upset you?

Have you ever heard of the 4th Amendment? Have you ever heard of the requirement of probable cause to arrest someone?

This Arizona law, as I understand it, gives police the power to detain someone they merely suspect of being in the country illegally. So it a person "looks like" an illegal immigrant to a police officer, they have the right to stop them and search them for "proof of citizenship."

Suppose a Hispanic person who is an American citizen, is walking down a street in an Arizona town and some cop "thinks" he "looks like an illegal immigrant." He isn't. He's an American citizen. Never mind. Stop, detain and search.

Suppose the police find some form of contraband or a weapon in the guy's pocket. Do you think for a second they are going to say, "Oh, well, never mind. I see that you are a U.S. citizen, so you are free to go"? Of course not. The person will be arrested - as a consequence of what clearly would have been an illegal detention and search, but for this new law.

I have no problem at all with arresting people for breaking the law, provided the police have probable cause to believe the law has been broken. I have a HUGE problem with arresting people without any probable cause whatsoever.

Yes I understand the 4th amendment and if you look like an illegal ******* then that's probable cause to stop you and ask for ID. If you have no ID then you will be detained until it can be determined your legal status.

There's a lot of supposition in your little rant, but let's suppose the man the cop stopped was wanted in connection with a murder, rape or child molestation then would it be ok?

No one will be arrested for NOT having an ID, but they will be detained until their legal status can be determined. Why wouldn't you want law enforcement to do their job to arrest and deport people that are here illegally?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I recall teabaggers being outraged at information given on the census, and encouraging people to throw the forms away.
Michele Bachmann said it would cause us to be sent to camps. Has she spoken out against this yet?

Apples and oranges dumbass!!

The census is required by the U.S. Constitution and it's only purpose is to count the people if the United States to determine the number of members of the U.S. House of Representatives from each state.

The data gathered by the U.S. Census Bureau are used by the states to draw boundaries for congressional and state legislative districts, and by local governments to establish districts for other representative bodies such as county legislatures, city councils, and boards of supervisors.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I like the Libs attitude,they as always care more about those outside the law then the ones who abide by it.
They want to make sure that the illegals in this country are protected...How dare we do something to protect ourselves.If those that get stopped and questioned have documentation they go on their way,if they don't then they will be dealt with accordingly...So far I don't have a problem with any of this.

and what about the american citizens who don't carry around paperwork and happen to be mexican or look something like it? what about the cop having a bad day who decides to take that out on the mexican without paperwork?

Paperwork? All they need is an ID. How many people do you know that looks like a ******* who doesn't carry any form of ID around with them?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The feds will stop them, Ollie, simple as that. I do agree with you that we should shut the border down, period. But business (the GOP) and special indentity politics (the Dems) will not permit it.

The feds can't stop them.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

since when do people have to carry ID in america at all times? since when could police threaten people with arrest simple because they think they are in the couuntry illegally? how many mexican american citizens will go to jail and face charges, ffines, and court dates unnecessarily once this is enforced?

If you're an United States citizen then you should have some form of ID on you, pretty much all the time. I never go anywhere without my driver's license. If you get cought without an ID then you should be held until you can provide documention or until they can determine just who the hell you are.

Don't you think it's important to know who is in our country and whether or not they have a legal right to be here?

No citizen will go to jail or pay a fine unless they are guilty of something. Not having an ID will not get you arrested, it will get you detained until it's determined who you are and whether you have a legal right to be here. So basically those American citizens that don't carry any form of ID will be inconvenienced at most.

How hard is that to understand?

Thus the argument for racial profiling. And the minority community has nothing to fear but police harassment. Just an inconvenience, doncha know.

I don't have a problem with racial profiling as long as it keep illegal wetbacks out of the country. So a police asking you for ID is harrassment?

 

[nraforlife]

......................so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom

That they are friend- the freedom of REAL Americans to not be overrun by criminal border crossers.

 

[GilbertArizona]

The problem is not so much the need to carry an ID, but rather past problems we've had in this state of Hispanic drivers being pulled over by police simply for being Hispanic. Hispanics I know are all for illegal immigrants being kicked out of the country. The problem is treating any group of American citizens as 2nd class citizens.

Our governor Jan Brewer is facing a tough choice on this one. Somos Republicans, a grass-roots group working to register more Latino Republicans, sent an e-mail to Brewer on Monday, telling her that if she supports the bill, they will request that she "leave the Republican Party." With the recent killing of a rancher in southern Arizona I think she'll face difficulty if she vetos the bill. Truthfully, I haven't seen for myself what "broad powers" the bill is taking about. Thus I'll support the governor no matter how she decides.

 

[bodecea]

So many of you are overlooking the real danger of a law such as this.

Police LOVE laws that extend their power to avoid the 4th Amendment, and well-meaning legislatures fall right into their hands every time. The issue here isn't stopping illegal aliens. The issue is stopping regular citizens who might appear to be illegal aliens but who are not, and then arresting them for whatever the cops happen to find on their persons or in their cars.

In a scenario such as this, the police would have NO probable cause to stop anyone, but for the particular law that gives them that right - in this case, the Arizona "stop and check" law for illegals. In other cases, DUI "checkpoints." Of course, once the person has been detained legally, all bets are off. Police are under no obligation to ignore contraband they observe incidentally while detaining someone for another purpose.

A law such as this one is just one more step toward a true police state - something that is to be avoided at all costs.

Exactly.

It's not to stop illegals, even though that's its intention. Remember, you never base your beliefs on "intention," ESPECIALLY good intention.

It gives the police another orgasm to exercise the power that turns them on.

Of course the law is designed to stop illegal aliens. The problem is, that it also impacts innocents as well as the guilty. Don't you see that? It's the same thing as a DUI checkpoint. A totally sober person gets stopped in a DUI checkpoint. He'd better not have anything he's not supposed to have in plain view in his car.

Something like that doesn't bother you?

Oh, wait a minute, I know - don't do anything wrong and you won't have anything to worry about. Right . . .

This is a massive extention of the "I pulled you over for a busted tail light" gambit.

 

[bodecea]

If you're an United States citizen then you should have some form of ID on you, pretty much all the time. I never go anywhere without my driver's license. If you get cought without an ID then you should be held until you can provide documention or until they can determine just who the hell you are.

Don't you think it's important to know who is in our country and whether or not they have a legal right to be here?

No citizen will go to jail or pay a fine unless they are guilty of something. Not having an ID will not get you arrested, it will get you detained until it's determined who you are and whether you have a legal right to be here. So basically those American citizens that don't carry any form of ID will be inconvenienced at most.

How hard is that to understand?

Thus the argument for racial profiling. And the minority community has nothing to fear but police harassment. Just an inconvenience, doncha know.

I don't have a problem with racial profiling as long as it keep illegal wetbacks out of the country. So a police asking you for ID is harrassment?

And what happens if you don't have your ID on you?

 

[Gunny]

FOXNews.com - Arizona Immigration Enforcement Bill Stirs National Debate

An Arizona bill that would impose some of the toughest immigration laws in the country is generating a storm of controversy nationwide as it tracks toward the governor's desk.

The Arizona Senate voted Monday to approve the final version of the bill, which was voted up on a party-line vote by the state House last Tuesday. If it's signed by Gov. Jan Brewer, it would give police in the state broad new powers to arrest and charge people suspected of being in the country illegally.

so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom

Your thread title is a blatant lie. Illegal immigration has undermined our social infrastructure and economy.

Illegal immigrants are criminals the second they cross the border. Law enforcement in this nation is not responsible for protecting the freedom of criminals. Matter of fact, we keep our criminals in cages, don't we?

This is nothing but fear-mongering.

 

[saveliberty]

The problem is not so much the need to carry an ID, but rather past problems we've had in this state of Hispanic drivers being pulled over by police simply for being Hispanic. Hispanics I know are all for illegal immigrants being kicked out of the country. The problem is treating any group of American citizens as 2nd class citizens.

Our governor Jan Brewer is facing a tough choice on this one. Somos Republicans, a grass-roots group working to register more Latino Republicans, sent an e-mail to Brewer on Monday, telling her that if she supports the bill, they will request that she "leave the Republican Party." With the recent killing of a rancher in southern Arizona I think she'll face difficulty if she vetos the bill. Truthfully, I haven't seen for myself what "broad powers" the bill is taking about. Thus I'll support the governor no matter how she decides.

Let's see...large shipments of drugs across the border by Japanese gangs? Ah, no, that would be Mexican gangs. Canadians shooting each other by the dozen every week? Hmm...that would semm to be Mexicans. Getting many illegal Europeans entering across the Mexican border? Gee, why would be think a Mexican might be doing anything wrong? Use your brain.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The feds will stop them, Ollie, simple as that. I do agree with you that we should shut the border down, period. But business (the GOP) and special indentity politics (the Dems) will not permit it.

The feds can't stop them.

Think not? Try, but make sure you have you bail bondsman and attorney on speed dial.

 

[JakeStarkey]

FOXNews.com - Arizona Immigration Enforcement Bill Stirs National Debate

An Arizona bill that would impose some of the toughest immigration laws in the country is generating a storm of controversy nationwide as it tracks toward the governor's desk.

The Arizona Senate voted Monday to approve the final version of the bill, which was voted up on a party-line vote by the state House last Tuesday. If it's signed by Gov. Jan Brewer, it would give police in the state broad new powers to arrest and charge people suspected of being in the country illegally.

so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom

Your thread title is a blatant lie. Illegal immigration has undermined our social infrastructure and economy.

Illegal immigrants are criminals the second they cross the border. Law enforcement in this nation is not responsible for protecting the freedom of criminals. Matter of fact, we keep our criminals in cages, don't we?

This is nothing but fear-mongering.

You are off the reservation, gunny. Police state tactics are unacceptable in our Republic. Enforce the border security, and the issue will go away.

 

[WillowTree]

FOXNews.com - Arizona Immigration Enforcement Bill Stirs National Debate

An Arizona bill that would impose some of the toughest immigration laws in the country is generating a storm of controversy nationwide as it tracks toward the governor's desk.

The Arizona Senate voted Monday to approve the final version of the bill, which was voted up on a party-line vote by the state House last Tuesday. If it's signed by Gov. Jan Brewer, it would give police in the state broad new powers to arrest and charge people suspected of being in the country illegally.

so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom

we have to have legitimite ID why shouldn't our visitors?? name one country on earth that doesn't require "papers"? then sit down and stfu for once.

 

[WillowTree]

Thus the argument for racial profiling. And the minority community has nothing to fear but police harassment. Just an inconvenience, doncha know.

I don't have a problem with racial profiling as long as it keep illegal wetbacks out of the country. So a police asking you for ID is harrassment?

And what happens if you don't have your ID on you?

If you ask nicely they'll let your sorry azz go home and get them.. DUmmie

 

[Truthmatters]

Everyone who travels to Arizona will have to carry citizenship papers.

Where in the ******* world did that ever happen, Hitler germany comes to mind

 

[JakeStarkey]

The libertarians and reactionaries are defending the need for "papers"? Pure hypocritical politicalism of a true national issue. Sorry lozers.