papers, please - once again republicans are working against freedom

[Gunny]

The libertarians and reactionaries are defending the need for "papers"? Pure hypocritical politicalism of a true national issue. Sorry lozers.

Nope. We all have to have ID. We have to have Social Security cards to work and driver's licenses to drive, and photo ID's to buy alcohol, and/or tobacco or have a bank account or get a job.

Your argument doesn't wash.

 

[Gunny]

I don't know anyone who doesn't varry I.D. Even teens without licenses generally have a school tag or a library card, why would anyone leave their wallet at home? Ever?

You are not required to carry your ID on you and you can't be compelled to show it without probable cause. If I was walking down the street and a cop just randomly approached me and asked me for my ID I don't have to legally show it to him.

Try again.

 

[Gunny]

FOXNews.com - Arizona Immigration Enforcement Bill Stirs National Debate

An Arizona bill that would impose some of the toughest immigration laws in the country is generating a storm of controversy nationwide as it tracks toward the governor's desk.

The Arizona Senate voted Monday to approve the final version of the bill, which was voted up on a party-line vote by the state House last Tuesday. If it's signed by Gov. Jan Brewer, it would give police in the state broad new powers to arrest and charge people suspected of being in the country illegally.

so glad the small government conservatives of the republican party are working to preserve people's freedom

They are approaching this entirely the wrong way. I agree that Arizona needs to crack down on illegal immigration because it's a big problem there, but they can do that by going after the employers who knowingly hire illegal labor and throwing them in jail and shutting their business down. They can also check for proof of citizenship when people apply for welfare benefits. When the jobs and free money dry up the illegals will leave on their own accord.

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that under this bill the cops have the right to stop anybody and require proof of citizenship just because they suspect they could possibly be here illegally. Well, how do you determine that? By race? Is a 30 year old born and raised American man with Hispanic heritage going to get pulled over and asked for his ID just because he looks Mexican? That's unacceptable and it's a violation of civil rights.

Typical leftwing answer. They need to do BOTH. They need to hammer employers AND crack down on illegals.

They're BOTH criminals. Get it?

 

[Gunny]

The libertarians and reactionaries are defending the need for "papers"? Pure hypocritical politicalism of a true national issue. Sorry lozers.

all worried about salt and willing to carry papers like in Nazi Germany?

its just soo fucked up

Speaking of reactionaries ... I think Jake was talking about YOU.

 

[Gunny]

The libertarians and reactionaries are defending the need for "papers"? Pure hypocritical politicalism of a true national issue. Sorry lozers.

I beg your pardon. Conservatives may be defending this, but libertarians are doing no such thing.

Wrong again.

 

[Vast LWC]

The libertarians and reactionaries are defending the need for "papers"? Pure hypocritical politicalism of a true national issue. Sorry lozers.

Nope. We all have to have ID. We have to have Social Security cards to work and driver's licenses to drive, and photo ID's to buy alcohol, and/or tobacco or have a bank account or get a job.

Your argument doesn't wash.

Ah, but the problem here Gunny, is this makes it a crime to not have your ID on your person. They can literally throw you in jail if you don't have your "papers".

That is most certainly a "police state" action, quite reminiscent of Stalin's USSR or Nazi Germany.

 

[Gunny]

You are off the reservation, gunny. Police state tactics are unacceptable in our Republic. Enforce the border security, and the issue will go away.

Wrong. There are no police state tactics here. Much adieu about nothing.

I'm all for enforcing the border. Your brethren lefties consider that police state tactics too.

Illegal aliens are criminals. We hunt down criminals and throw them in jail for committing crimes.

Fascist!

No ... I'm an axe murderer .....

 

[SFC Ollie]

The libertarians and reactionaries are defending the need for "papers"? Pure hypocritical politicalism of a true national issue. Sorry lozers.

Nope. We all have to have ID. We have to have Social Security cards to work and driver's licenses to drive, and photo ID's to buy alcohol, and/or tobacco or have a bank account or get a job.

Your argument doesn't wash.

Ah, but the problem here Gunny, is this makes it a crime to not have your ID on your person. They can literally throw you in jail if you don't have your "papers".

That is most certainly a "police state" action, quite reminiscent of Stalin's USSR or Nazi Germany.

And what happens if you get pulled over for speeding and do not have your ID (Drivers license)? In any state........

 

[Gunny]

The libertarians and reactionaries are defending the need for "papers"? Pure hypocritical politicalism of a true national issue. Sorry lozers.

Nope. We all have to have ID. We have to have Social Security cards to work and driver's licenses to drive, and photo ID's to buy alcohol, and/or tobacco or have a bank account or get a job.

Your argument doesn't wash.

Ah, but the problem here Gunny, is this makes it a crime to not have your ID on your person. They can literally throw you in jail if you don't have your "papers".

That is most certainly a "police state" action, quite reminiscent of Stalin's USSR or Nazi Germany.

No it doesn't. It says you may be detained until identity is established. The crime is illegal immigration; which, is a crime and has been.

Nothing police state about that. Carry your ID. I've been carrying one for 40 years. This is a case of the left feigning and sensationalizing a lot about nothing.

 

[George Costanza]

Nope. We all have to have ID. We have to have Social Security cards to work and driver's licenses to drive, and photo ID's to buy alcohol, and/or tobacco or have a bank account or get a job.

Your argument doesn't wash.

Ah, but the problem here Gunny, is this makes it a crime to not have your ID on your person. They can literally throw you in jail if you don't have your "papers".

That is most certainly a "police state" action, quite reminiscent of Stalin's USSR or Nazi Germany.

No it doesn't. It says you may be detained until identity is established. The crime is illegal immigration; which, is a crime and has been.

Nothing police state about that. Carry your ID. I've been carrying one for 40 years. This is a case of the left feigning and sensationalizing a lot about nothing.

On this narrow point, I have to agree with Gunny here.

There are other issues which make this an objectionable law, but I'm afraid that the detention part of it passes Constitutional muster, as does the requirement of being able to show some ID.

 

[saveliberty]

The libertarians and reactionaries are defending the need for "papers"? Pure hypocritical politicalism of a true national issue. Sorry lozers.

Nope. We all have to have ID. We have to have Social Security cards to work and driver's licenses to drive, and photo ID's to buy alcohol, and/or tobacco or have a bank account or get a job.

Your argument doesn't wash.

Ah, but the problem here Gunny, is this makes it a crime to not have your ID on your person. They can literally throw you in jail if you don't have your "papers".

That is most certainly a "police state" action, quite reminiscent of Stalin's USSR or Nazi Germany.

Where is your ID when you leave the house Vast?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Probably up his ass, where all his ideas originate.

 

[Vast LWC]

Where is your ID when you leave the house Vast?

Depends on what I'm wearing or where I'm going.

If I'm taking my son to the park or the beach near my house, I may in fact often leave home without it.

But hell, that's not even the point. What if I want to go hiking in some nearby woods and I forget my ID. That's a crime???

There's no excuse for this.

 

[Vast LWC]

Probably up his ass, where all his ideas originate.

You're seriously defending this?

Aren't you supposed to be a Libertarian?

 

[saveliberty]

Where is your ID when you leave the house Vast?

Depends on what I'm wearing or where I'm going.

If I'm taking my son to the park or the beach near my house, I may in fact often leave home without it.

But hell, that's not even the point. What if I want to go hiking in some nearby woods and I forget my ID. That's a crime???

There's no excuse for this.

So...85% or the time your ID is in your wallet in your right rear pocket. If you were stopped, you would properly identify yourself and the police would verify your identity in a couple of minutes. You are on your way. Why are you giving illegal folks a break?

 

[Gunny]

Where is your ID when you leave the house Vast?

Depends on what I'm wearing or where I'm going.

If I'm taking my son to the park or the beach near my house, I may in fact often leave home without it.

But hell, that's not even the point. What if I want to go hiking in some nearby woods and I forget my ID. That's a crime???

There's no excuse for this.

Whatever.

The idiot you put in office is the biggest fascist in this nation; yet, you want o cry about civil liberties?

 

[Vast LWC]

So...85% or the time your ID is in your wallet in your right rear pocket. If you were stopped, you would properly identify yourself and the police would verify your identity in a couple of minutes. You are on your way. Why are you giving illegal folks a break?

Because 15% of the time I don't have my wallet.

And if I happened to be of Hispanic decent in the area in question, I would be detained and arrested.

 

[Gunny]

Probably up his ass, where all his ideas originate.

You're seriously defending this?

Aren't you supposed to be a Libertarian?

I am, and I have no problem with it. if we have a National government that is supposed to be responsible for the sovereignty of our borders, then they should at LEAST do THAT instead of spending it's time taking over private sector industries.

 

[Gunny]

So...85% or the time your ID is in your wallet in your right rear pocket. If you were stopped, you would properly identify yourself and the police would verify your identity in a couple of minutes. You are on your way. Why are you giving illegal folks a break?

Because 15% of the time I don't have my wallet.

And if I happened to be of Hispanic decent in the area in question, I would be detained and arrested.

Personal accountability.

 

[Vast LWC]

Whatever.

The idiot you put in office is the biggest fascist in this nation; yet, you want o cry about civil liberties?

What specific personal civil liberties of yours have been abridged by the Obama administration, besides the "right" to scam everyone by going without medical insurance?