Palestinians Massing At The Israeli Border

[Shusha]

I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?" It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.

They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked. There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs. No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades. NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.

Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing. Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis. Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection? Stop attacking Israel.

Its not rocket science.

A blockade is an act of war.

A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?" It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.

They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked. There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs. No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades. NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.

Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing. Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis. Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection? Stop attacking Israel.

Its not rocket science.

A blockade is an act of war.

A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.

Israel is only defending its settler colonial project.

 

[Sixties Fan]

A suspected explosive device connected to a cluster of balloons from the Gaza Strip, which landed in a field in southern Israel on March 24, 2019. (Sha'ar Hanegev Regional Council)

After late-night border violence, suspected explosives found in field near Gaza

 

[Hollie]

I'm just asking the question, "Why can't they have weapons?" It's like saying they don't have a right to defend themselves.

They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked. There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs. No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades. NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.

Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing. Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis. Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection? Stop attacking Israel.

Its not rocket science.

A blockade is an act of war.

A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.

Israel is only defending its settler colonial project.

Actually, the Israelis are defending themselves from the Islamist gee-had that has a stated goal the destruction of of Israel.

Islamic fascism is a dangerous beast and Islamic settler colonialism is the reason why the Islamic Middle East is so terribly retrograde.

 

[Billo_Really]

International law allows Israel and Egypt to TELL the Palestinians how far they can go, and if they do not stop when they are told to stop, take the consequences of being shot at and even killed.

Actions have consequences. Be it from not listening to Israelis to stop, or from the Egyptians to stop

https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/egyptian-navy-fatally-shoots-palestinian-fisherman-at-sea/


And I do not have to wonder why you do not mention anything the Egyptians do to protect their borders and their populations, including keeping the entrance to Egypt mostly closed.

Wrong. International law sets the distance for territorial waters of any country at 12 nautical miles. Israel restricts Palestinian fishing to just 6 nautical miles. There is no law that gives them the authority to do that. Furthermore, these fishermen being shot at, are in Gazan territorial waters. An area Israel has no jurisdiction in.

I love how its okay for Israel and Egypt to protect their borders, but the Palestinians are not allowed to do the same?

 

[Sixties Fan]

International law allows Israel and Egypt to TELL the Palestinians how far they can go, and if they do not stop when they are told to stop, take the consequences of being shot at and even killed.

Actions have consequences. Be it from not listening to Israelis to stop, or from the Egyptians to stop

https://nypost.com/2018/01/13/egyptian-navy-fatally-shoots-palestinian-fisherman-at-sea/


And I do not have to wonder why you do not mention anything the Egyptians do to protect their borders and their populations, including keeping the entrance to Egypt mostly closed.

Wrong. International law sets the distance for territorial waters of any country at 12 nautical miles. Israel restricts Palestinian fishing to just 6 nautical miles. There is no law that gives them the authority to do that. Furthermore, these fishermen being shot at, are in Gazan territorial waters. An area Israel has no jurisdiction in.

I love how its okay for Israel and Egypt to protect their borders, but the Palestinians are not allowed to do the same?

That is the price some fishermen have to pay for enabling their leaders for firing rockets, attempting to invade Israel, sending incendiary and explosive balloons into Israeli territory which has cause great damage to the Israeli environment, setting granades, explosives at the border fence in order to destroy it to ease an invasion of armed Hamas members and any other civilians with any kind of weapons intent on killing any Jews they find......

Actions have consequences and you can continue to cry your heart out for those bloody murderers wannabes all you like. Israel will continue to protect its territory and population, which includes Palestinians the ones in Gaza have killed intending to kill Jews.

Any other country would have already bombed Gaza out of existence.

 

[Billo_Really]

You were answered that they do have weapons.

I didn't say they have weapons. I asked the question "why can't they?" The fact that you have to strawman every opposing argument, shows you don't have one yourself.

They smuggle them.
And then they use them to attack Israel, to try to invade Israel.

They are not attacking Israel. They are defending their homeland from foreign aggression. Remember, you're the fuckers who moved into the area, not them.

It is called an embargo. Egypt does the same, but you say nothing about that.

It's not a Egyptian embargo, its an Israeli one. One Israel started because they didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election.

Are you going to continue to live in your fantasy world where Israel "did not" leave Gaza completely in 2005 and that is why the Palestinians started firing even more rockets against Israel with the intention of killing anyone they can on the other side?

Israel controls 80% of what goes in to and out of Gaza. That's not leaving.

This is what the Arabs are all about. Killing Jews and taking what does not belong to them

Tell that to the victims of Deir Yassen.

Gaza rocket hits bus, Israel launches airstrikes on Palestinian enclave

They are even killing Palestinians in Israel with their endless attacks:

Palestinian killed by Gaza rocket in Israel had nowhere to run, neighbors say


For what?

They have Gaza all to themselves.

So, for what reason have they continued the war against Israel from 2005 until now?

The rockets didn't start falling until 2001. That's 34 years after the occupation began. Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinian's are the defenders.

 

[Billo_Really]

Read what I wrote again. I didn't say it was permissible to shoot someone who is duck hunting (wtf?), fishing or standing there smoking. Nor did I say it was permissible to shoot (target) medics.

You don't say. Your silence on that issue speaks volumes.

I said: Lethal force is permitted against armed, violent threats. Yes?!

Lethal force is permitted when your life is threatened. Someone throwing a rock 900 feet away is not threatening your life.

 

[Billo_Really]

Peaceful countries are not in any way required to permit non-citizens to enter their country.

And they also have no right to shoot people who are NOT in their country.

 

[Sixties Fan]

You were answered that they do have weapons.

I didn't say they have weapons. I asked the question "why can't they?" The fact that you have to strawman every opposing argument, shows you don't have one yourself.

They smuggle them.
And then they use them to attack Israel, to try to invade Israel.

They are not attacking Israel. They are defending their homeland from foreign aggression. Remember, you're the fuckers who moved into the area, not them.

It is called an embargo. Egypt does the same, but you say nothing about that.

It's not a Egyptian embargo, its an Israeli one. One Israel started because they didn't like the results of a fair and democratic election.

Are you going to continue to live in your fantasy world where Israel "did not" leave Gaza completely in 2005 and that is why the Palestinians started firing even more rockets against Israel with the intention of killing anyone they can on the other side?

Israel controls 80% of what goes in to and out of Gaza. That's not leaving.

This is what the Arabs are all about. Killing Jews and taking what does not belong to them

Tell that to the victims of Deir Yassen.

Gaza rocket hits bus, Israel launches airstrikes on Palestinian enclave

They are even killing Palestinians in Israel with their endless attacks:

Palestinian killed by Gaza rocket in Israel had nowhere to run, neighbors say


For what?

They have Gaza all to themselves.

So, for what reason have they continued the war against Israel from 2005 until now?

The rockets didn't start falling until 2001. That's 34 years after the occupation began. Israel is the aggressor. The Palestinian's are the defenders.

They should no more have weapons than Germany or Japan in WWII. They want to kill people, instead of building a State.

Give yourself a break for that second paragraph. Their homeland is Gaza. The whole territory was given to them, lock, stock and barrel without any requests for anything else in return. Let them go build it instead of trying to take over Israel.
Jews returned to their homeland. To return = going back.
Arabs = those from Arabia, not indigenous to the land and not "coming back" to the area originally known as Canaan.

[ BOTH Israel and Egypt block a lot of things from Gaza which would harm either country, you accept it or not]

Israel built the Israel and Egypt–Gaza Strip barrier between 1994 and 2005, as a security measure to stop the infiltration of terrorists, including suicide bombers, into Israel. The construction of a border fence was envisaged in the Oslo Accords, as was the control by Israel of all borders of the Palestinian territories. There are four border crossings through the barrier: the Kerem Shalom, Karni, Erez, and Sufa crossings. All goods bound for Gaza through Israel must pass through one of these crossings, and undergo security inspection before being permitted into Gaza.

Additionally, the Egypt-Gaza barrier was built underground by Egypt starting in 2009. The stated aim was to block smuggling tunnels. The Egyptian Border Police maintain a presence along the Egypt-Gaza border. The Rafah Border Crossing is the only lawful crossing point between Egypt and Gaza, and was manned by Palestinian Authority security forces and the European Union Border Assistance Mission Rafah.[21] All humanitarian supplies are transferred through Israel or Egypt via the land crossings after security inspection.

One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative elections in January 2006, winning control of the Palestinian Legislative Council. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East had stated that their continued aid to the PA under a Hamas government was conditional on Hamas' recognition of Israel, the disavowal of violent actions, and acceptance of previous agreements between Israel and the PA, including the Oslo Accords. When Hamas formed a government in March 2006 led by Ismail Haniya, refusing to accept these conditions, Israel and the Quartet stopped having any dialogue with the Palestinian Authority and especially any member of the Hamas government, ceased providing aid to the PA and imposed sanctions against the PA.[3]

In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a PA unity government, also headed by Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza,[1] seizing government institutions and replacing Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[2] Following the takeover, besides other measures, Israel and Egypt closed the border crossings with Gaza, marking the start of the blockade of the Gaza Strip. At the same time, international relations and aid to the Fatah-led government in the West Bank resumed and the economic sanctions lifted.

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
-----------------

Gaza is lucky that Israel allows anything at all. If it were Russia, Syria or Saudi Arabia as neighbors, Gaza would be starving by now. Remember that !!!

-----------------------
Deir Yassen never happened.



[ Let us see you call this resident of Deir Yassen a liar ]

---------------------
The aggression and declaration of war started in 1920 when Arabs were made to riot against the Jews. And then more riots and expulsions of Jews in 1921, 1929, 1936-39 and a full scale 7 Arab nations war against newly Independent Israel.


Such crocodile tears. They would never be shed if it was Muslim against Muslim, or Muslim against Christians.

Occupation is what Jordan was doing in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.

Let us hear it from the Arabs during those years clamoring and demanding their own State and demanding that Jordan end their occupation.


What?


What?


I cannot hear you, Arabs !!!!
[ Not ONE Arab raises their voice, be it in Gaza to make the Egyptians let Gaza be free, or the ones in Judea, Samaria or the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, not ONE of their leaders raised their voices to riot, make demands, go to the UN, or even the Arab League. Not ONE Egyptian or Jordanian life was taken by the Arabs in those areas during those 19 years ]

 

[Billo_Really]

They only have the right to defend themselves if they are being attacked. There is no March of Israelis trying to break through the fence to kill Arabs. No IEDs, no fire bomb balloons, no grenades. NO ONE is attacking the people of Gaza.

Now, the embargo and border protection is a different thing. Its is a defensive mechanism against the attacks made by Gaza on Israelis. Want to stop the embargo and strict border protection? Stop attacking Israel.

Its not rocket science.

What do you call this?



How is fishing a threat you have to defend yourself from?

And this...

 

[Sixties Fan]

Peaceful countries are not in any way required to permit non-citizens to enter their country.

And they also have no right to shoot people who are NOT in their country.

Fascinating how you invent things.
In other words, Egypt did not have any right to shoot at these people:

"Egypt has a record of shooting unarmed sub-Saharan African refugees as they approach Israel's border," he told Al Jazeera.

"We call on Egypt to end this policy of shooting unarmed [refugees] and investigate those who are responsible for these deaths."

Sudanese refugees shot dead on Egypt-Israel border

 

[Billo_Really]

A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.

An occupational force cannot claim self defense.

Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel is only defending its settler colonial project.

And those settlers (I call them Israeli insurgents), are the absolute bottom of the barrel scum of Israeli citizens.

 

[Billo_Really]

Actually, the Israelis are defending themselves from the Islamist gee-had that has a stated goal the destruction of of Israel.

Islamic fascism is a dangerous beast and Islamic settler colonialism is the reason why the Islamic Middle East is so terribly retrograde.

Holy Hollie Batman, will she ever live in the now?

 

[Sixties Fan]

A blockade is an act of DEFENSE in a war.

An occupational force cannot claim self defense.

Can you claim you were defending yourself, if you were the one who invaded someone else's house to kill the home owner?

The Jews being the indigenous people of the region called by the Romans Syria Palestine and which name was also used by the British for the Mandate to reconstitute the Jewish Nation ON the Jewish ancient homeland.........have every right to defend themselves from those who not only taken away more than 78% of their HOME, but the 22 % of what is left of their home which the armed invaders are intent in taking, at any cost.

How did Hebron become mostly Arab after 1929?
The Arabs came in and attacked the Jews, murdering many of them. The British then made sure all the other Jews were made to leave, expelling them, exactly as they did in Gaza in 1920.

Arabs and British = foreign invaders attempting to keep the Jews from legally reconstituting their Nation ON their ancient homeland.


What other crocodile tears do you have to shed for us?

 

[Billo_Really]

That is the price some fishermen have to pay for enabling their leaders for firing rockets, attempting to invade Israel, sending incendiary and explosive balloons into Israeli territory which has cause great damage to the Israeli environment, setting granades, explosives at the border fence in order to destroy it to ease an invasion of armed Hamas members and any other civilians with any kind of weapons intent on killing any Jews they find......

Actions have consequences and you can continue to cry your heart out for those bloody murderers wannabes all you like. Israel will continue to protect its territory and population, which includes Palestinians the ones in Gaza have killed intending to kill Jews.

Any other country would have already bombed Gaza out of existence.

You cannot claim self defense when you are the one causing the violence in the first place.

 

[Billo_Really]

They should no more have weapons than Germany or Japan in WWII. They want to kill people, instead of building a State.

They can't build a state. Israel will not allow building materials into the area.

Give yourself a break for that second paragraph. Their homeland is Gaza. The whole territory was given to them, lock, stock and barrel without any requests for anything else in return. Let them go build it instead of trying to take over Israel.
Jews returned to their homeland. To return = going back.
Arabs = those from Arabia, not indigenous to the land and not "coming back" to the area originally known as Canaan.

You can't give what you don't have. Gaza was not Israel's to give.

[ BOTH Israel and Egypt block a lot of things from Gaza which would harm either country, you accept it or not]

People seeking cancer treatment is causing you harm?

Israel built the Israel and Egypt–Gaza Strip barrier between 1994 and 2005, as a security measure to stop the infiltration of terrorists, including suicide bombers, into Israel. The construction of a border fence was envisaged in the Oslo Accords, as was the control by Israel of all borders of the Palestinian territories. There are four border crossings through the barrier: the Kerem Shalom, Karni, Erez, and Sufa crossings. All goods bound for Gaza through Israel must pass through one of these crossings, and undergo security inspection before being permitted into Gaza.

Additionally, the Egypt-Gaza barrier was built underground by Egypt starting in 2009. The stated aim was to block smuggling tunnels. The Egyptian Border Police maintain a presence along the Egypt-Gaza border. The Rafah Border Crossing is the only lawful crossing point between Egypt and Gaza, and was manned by Palestinian Authority security forces and the European Union Border Assistance Mission Rafah.[21] All humanitarian supplies are transferred through Israel or Egypt via the land crossings after security inspection.

One year after the 2005 disengagement from the Gaza Strip by Israel, Hamas won the Palestinian legislative elections in January 2006, winning control of the Palestinian Legislative Council. Israel and the Quartet on the Middle East had stated that their continued aid to the PA under a Hamas government was conditional on Hamas' recognition of Israel, the disavowal of violent actions, and acceptance of previous agreements between Israel and the PA, including the Oslo Accords. When Hamas formed a government in March 2006 led by Ismail Haniya, refusing to accept these conditions, Israel and the Quartet stopped having any dialogue with the Palestinian Authority and especially any member of the Hamas government, ceased providing aid to the PA and imposed sanctions against the PA.[3]

In March 2007, Hamas and Fatah formed a PA unity government, also headed by Haniya. Shortly after, in June, Hamas took control of the Gaza Strip during the Battle of Gaza,[1] seizing government institutions and replacing Fatah and other government officials with Hamas members.[2] Following the takeover, besides other measures, Israel and Egypt closed the border crossings with Gaza, marking the start of the blockade of the Gaza Strip. At the same time, international relations and aid to the Fatah-led government in the West Bank resumed and the economic sanctions lifted.

Blockade of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia
-----------------

Gaza is lucky that Israel allows anything at all. If it were Russia, Syria or Saudi Arabia as neighbors, Gaza would be starving by now. Remember that !!!

-----------------------
Deir Yassen never happened.



[ Let us see you call this resident of Deir Yassen a liar ]

---------------------
The aggression and declaration of war started in 1920 when Arabs were made to riot against the Jews. And then more riots and expulsions of Jews in 1921, 1929, 1936-39 and a full scale 7 Arab nations war against newly Independent Israel.


Such crocodile tears. They would never be shed if it was Muslim against Muslim, or Muslim against Christians.

Occupation is what Jordan was doing in Judea, Samaria and the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem from 1948 to 1967.

Let us hear it from the Arabs during those years clamoring and demanding their own State and demanding that Jordan end their occupation.


What?


What?


I cannot hear you, Arabs !!!!
[ Not ONE Arab raises their voice, be it in Gaza to make the Egyptians let Gaza be free, or the ones in Judea, Samaria or the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem, not ONE of their leaders raised their voices to riot, make demands, go to the UN, or even the Arab League. Not ONE Egyptian or Jordanian life was taken by the Arabs in those areas during those 19 years ]

The rest of your post is just hasbara bullshit.

 

[Billo_Really]

Fascinating how you invent things.
In other words, Egypt did not have any right to shoot at these people:

"Egypt has a record of shooting unarmed sub-Saharan African refugees as they approach Israel's border," he told Al Jazeera.

"We call on Egypt to end this policy of shooting unarmed [refugees] and investigate those who are responsible for these deaths."

Sudanese refugees shot dead on Egypt-Israel border

I didn't invent anything. Egypt was not the one shooting at March of Return protesters.

 

[Hollie]

Actually, the Israelis are defending themselves from the Islamist gee-had that has a stated goal the destruction of of Israel.

Islamic fascism is a dangerous beast and Islamic settler colonialism is the reason why the Islamic Middle East is so terribly retrograde.

Holy Hollie Batman, will she ever live in the now?

I’m living in the now. Now, (right now in the event you missed it), there are pious Moslems mobbed near the Israeli border who have announced their intention to crash that border and launch themselves into a Jew killing frenzy.

You missed the news?