Palestine: the things you don’t hear about

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Throughout history, cultural assimilation has occurred many time all over the globe. The Arab Palestinians are NOT a distinct culture (yet), but more of a splinter group from several cultures. It should not be an excuse for conflict.

So? They have still been occupied for a hundred years.

(COMMENT)

In the case of Israel, there is no forced assimilation wherein the Jewish cultural group forces the Arab under Israel to adopt the practices and beliefs of Judaism. It is not compulsory for Arabs under Israeli sovereignty to abandon their traditional culture in the process of the umbrella of assimilation. As far as language is concerned → Hebrew is the official language with English being very common. Arabic is a second official language used in minority situations. As far as ethnic diversity goes, nearly a quarter of the population is Arabic.

I'm not sure how many centuries the Arab Palestinians claim as having been "occupied;" but the assimilation process and the expulsion process have happened many times. I am not sure what a real "original" Palestinian is... Or even if there is such a thing as a real Palestinian.

As I've said before, I was born in the Appalachian cultural region. It includes the Pennacook, Mohican, and Susquehanna Indians (some going back 3000 years); as well as a good number of Western European immigrants. BUT we are all Americans. There is even an Appalachian Regional Commission (ARC), formed as a regional economic development agency → a multi-faceted partnership between federal, state, and local governments covering about 25 million people in 205,000 square miles. BUT we don't say we are "occupied." We are all Americans. We don't go in for terrorism to protest "occupation." It is too friggin (freaking) bad that the Arab Palestinians feel so victimized.

There are many examples of such alternative solutions to the "Woe is me" situation the poor and mistreated Arab Palestinians find themselves in now. Keep in mind that → where they are is a direct outcome of what they have done to deserve it.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MartyNYC]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Throughout history, cultural assimilation has occurred many time all over the globe. The Arab Palestinians are NOT a distinct culture (yet), but more of a splinter group from several cultures. It should not be an excuse for conflict.


(COMMENT)

In the case of Israel, there is no forced assimilation wherein the Jewish cultural group forces the Arab under Israel to adopt the practices and beliefs of Judaism. It is not compulsory for Arabs under Israeli sovereignty to abandon their traditional culture in the process of the umbrella of assimilation. As far as language is concerned → Hebrew is the official language with English being very common. Arabic is a second official language used in minority situations. As far as ethnic diversity goes, nearly a quarter of the population is Arabic.

I'm not sure how many centuries the Arab Palestinians claim as having been "occupied;" but the assimilation process and the expulsion process have happened many times. I am not sure what a real "original" Palestinian is... Or even if there is such a thing as a real Palestinian.

As I've said before, I was born in the Appalachian cultural region. It includes the Pennacook, Mohican, and Susquehanna Indians (some going back 3000 years); as well as a good number of Western European immigrants. BUT we are all Americans. There is even an Appalachian Regional Commission (ARC), formed as a regional economic development agency → a multi-faceted partnership between federal, state, and local governments covering about 25 million people in 205,000 square miles. BUT we don't say we are "occupied." We are all Americans. We don't go in for terrorism to protest "occupation." It is toofriggin (freaking) bad that the Arab Palestinians feel so victimized.

There are many examples of such alternative solutions to the "Woe is me" situation the poor and mistreated Arab Palestinians find themselves in now. Keep in mind that → where they are is a direct outcome of what they have done to deserve it.

Most Respectfully,
R

There is no distinct “palestinian” language, religion, culture, or historic identity. In fact, the name palestine comes from a fictional Roman name imposed on Jews, palaestina. And, Jews were called palestinians in the British Mandate, nicknamed palestine. These are made-up European terms.

Syria’s Hafiz al-Asad admonished Arafat that palestinian were bogus...

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

BLUF: Throughout history, cultural assimilation has occurred many time all over the globe. The Arab Palestinians are NOT a distinct culture (yet), but more of a splinter group from several cultures. It should not be an excuse for conflict.


(COMMENT)

In the case of Israel, there is no forced assimilation wherein the Jewish cultural group forces the Arab under Israel to adopt the practices and beliefs of Judaism. It is not compulsory for Arabs under Israeli sovereignty to abandon their traditional culture in the process of the umbrella of assimilation. As far as language is concerned → Hebrew is the official language with English being very common. Arabic is a second official language used in minority situations. As far as ethnic diversity goes, nearly a quarter of the population is Arabic.

I'm not sure how many centuries the Arab Palestinians claim as having been "occupied;" but the assimilation process and the expulsion process have happened many times. I am not sure what a real "original" Palestinian is... Or even if there is such a thing as a real Palestinian.

As I've said before, I was born in the Appalachian cultural region. It includes the Pennacook, Mohican, and Susquehanna Indians (some going back 3000 years); as well as a good number of Western European immigrants. BUT we are all Americans. There is even an Appalachian Regional Commission (ARC), formed as a regional economic development agency → a multi-faceted partnership between federal, state, and local governments covering about 25 million people in 205,000 square miles. BUT we don't say we are "occupied." We are all Americans. We don't go in for terrorism to protest "occupation." It is toofriggin (freaking) bad that the Arab Palestinians feel so victimized.

There are many examples of such alternative solutions to the "Woe is me" situation the poor and mistreated Arab Palestinians find themselves in now. Keep in mind that → where they are is a direct outcome of what they have done to deserve it.

Most Respectfully,
R

They have still been occupied for a hundred years.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, MartyNYC, et al,

Let me put it another way.

They have still been occupied for a hundred years.

(COMMENT)

While I get what MartyNYC is driving at, having introduced that argument about 8,000 of my posts ago (Marty, we are talking about people now and not the territorial terrain, by whatever name you call them) even a thousand years ago, the regional territory was not occupied by the Ottoman Empire it was included into the sovereignty of the Empire, and territorial conquest was (and still is) a form of establishing sovereignty (whether it is illegal or not). It was a straight-forward regime change from one to the next. The change made at the conclusion of a military expedition.

The Egyptian forces took control of the region and extended their sovereign control from the Asian Mongols. This was followed by the territorial conquest by The Ottoman Empire captured in 1516. From the Asain Mongols (Regime Change) to the Egyptians (Regime Change) to the Ottomans Empire (Regime Change) then to the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). Over that thousand-year period, there was a clean regime transition from one sovereign to the next.

For the purposes of pitiful political sympathy, you might fight to express and spread the idea that the descendants of today's Arab Palestinians were under foreign occupation. But that would simply be wrong. The descendants were fully invested subjects of the new regime.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[MartyNYC]

They have still been occupied for a hundred years.

The palestinians named al-Masri, meaning the Egyptian, are occupied? Also, the palestinians named Iraqi, Shami (Syria), Maghrebi (North Africa) and Bushnaq, meaning Bosnia? Who are you fucking kidding?

 

[MartyNYC]

They have still been occupied for a hundred years.

“Palestinian“ surnames indicate they’re occupying Jews’ ancestral homeland...

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, MartyNYC, et al,

Let me put it another way.


(COMMENT)

While I get what MartyNYC is driving at, having introduced that argument about 8,000 of my posts ago (Marty, we are talking about people now and not the territorial terrain, by whatever name you call them) even a thousand years ago, the regional territory was not occupied by the Ottoman Empire it was included into the sovereignty of the Empire, and territorial conquest was (and still is) a form of establishing sovereignty (whether it is illegal or not). It was a straight-forward regime change from one to the next. The change made at the conclusion of a military expedition.

The Egyptian forces took control of the region and extended their sovereign control from the Asian Mongols. This was followed by the territorial conquest by The Ottoman Empire captured in 1516. From the Asain Mongols (Regime Change) to the Egyptians (Regime Change) to the Ottomans Empire (Regime Change) then to the Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). Over that thousand-year period, there was a clean regime transition from one sovereign to the next.

For the purposes of pitiful political sympathy, you might fight to express and spread the idea that the descendants of today's Arab Palestinians were under foreign occupation. But that would simply be wrong. The descendants were fully invested subjects of the new regime.

Most Respectfully,
R

Surely Palestine has had a tumultuous past. It has experienced many invasions and conquests. This has left them with a diverse ethnic and religious population.

However, during the Ottoman period it was relatively calm. Particularly since they moved toward religious freedom in the middle of the 19th century. The Palestinians had little animosity between different groups for a couple of generations.

Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade in the international markets.

Then the Zionists came down from Europe and fucked everything up.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This large immigration is confirmed by Palestinians who, for example, today say“ There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. Itis only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity...yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel”.
​

Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Dept leader of PLO and member of its Executive Council,
Dutchdaily Trouw, March 1977

Surely Palestine has had a tumultuous past. It has experienced many invasions and conquests. This has left them with a diverse ethnic and religious population.

(COMMENT)

The total population of Palestine (west of the Jordan River) at the end of 1936 was ≈1.3M people; the Jews being composing ≈30% (384,000 people). The Jewish population experienced rapid growth of nearly 100,000 immigrants between 1920 and 1930; accounting for a quarter of the 1936 Jewish population. There was not as much diversity occurring as you might think during the "tumultuous past."

However, during the Ottoman period it was relatively calm. Particularly since they moved toward religious freedom in the middle of the 19th century. The Palestinians had little animosity between different groups for a couple of generations.

(COMMENT)

I agree, it was a quiet period during the 19th Century.

Palestine produced a surplus of food that was exported to other countries. They had a positive balance of trade in the international markets.

Then the Zionists came down from Europe and fucked everything up.

(COMMENT)

This is just unworthy of a reply.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[rylah]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This large immigration is confirmed by Palestinians who, for example, today say“ There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. Itis only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity...yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel”.
​

Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Dept leader of PLO and member of its Executive Council,
Dutchdaily Trouw, March 1977


(COMMENT)

The total population of Palestine (west of the Jordan River) at the end of 1936 was ≈1.3M people; the Jews being composing ≈30% (384,000 people). The Jewish population experienced rapid growth of nearly 100,000 immigrants between 1920 and 1930; accounting for a quarter of the 1936 Jewish population. There was not as much diversity occurring as you might think during the "tumultuous past."


(COMMENT)

I agree, it was a quiet period during the 19th Century.


(COMMENT)

This is just unworthy of a reply.

Most Respectfully,
R

Explain how does expelling local Jews from all their holy cities
is considered "quiet period during 19th Century"?

RoccoR I know You mean well, but please reconsider this common misconception.
The "Negev Storm" pogroms against the Jewish communities in Europe occurred
virtually at the same time as the waves of Arab pogroms all over the Caliphate.

 

[P F Tinmore]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, et al,

This large immigration is confirmed by Palestinians who, for example, today say“ There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. Itis only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity...yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel”.
​

Zuheir Muhsin, late Military Dept leader of PLO and member of its Executive Council,
Dutchdaily Trouw, March 1977


(COMMENT)

The total population of Palestine (west of the Jordan River) at the end of 1936 was ≈1.3M people; the Jews being composing ≈30% (384,000 people). The Jewish population experienced rapid growth of nearly 100,000 immigrants between 1920 and 1930; accounting for a quarter of the 1936 Jewish population. There was not as much diversity occurring as you might think during the "tumultuous past."


(COMMENT)

I agree, it was a quiet period during the 19th Century.


(COMMENT)

This is just unworthy of a reply.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Jewish population experienced rapid growth of nearly 100,000 immigrants between 1920 and 1930;

Immigrants is a misnomer. There is a big difference between immigrants and settlers.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Aqabet ash-Sheikh Raihan in the Old City of Jerusalem. Photo by Abdalafo Bassam.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Breathtaking beauty: Northern Jordan Valley. Photo by Firas Mufeed Jarrar.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A stunning interior shot of al-Aqsa Mosque by Abdalafo Bassam.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Qal'at al-Qarn (Castle of the Horn), Upper Galilee, Occupied Palestine. Photo by Obaida Jamal.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Palestine: the things you don’t hear about
⁜→ P F Tinmore, rylah, et al,

Explain how does expelling local Jews from all their holy cities is considered "quiet period during 19th Century"?

(COMMENT)

The relocation and immigration of ≈ 2.5 million Jews from eastern Europe, was a great period of change. But ultimately, the move (mostly out of Russia) led to a real possibility for a productive future.

RoccoR I know You mean well, but please reconsider this common misconception.
The "Negev Storm" pogroms against the Jewish communities in Europe occurred virtually at the same time as the waves of Arab pogroms all over the Caliphate.

(COMMENT)

Any such violence which singles-out the Jewish people within the population is wrong, immoral, and unethical. And while the "Negev Storm" pogrom was a traumatic event, that 33 day period of organized attacks against Jews and general violence did not represent much more than one-tenth of one percent when looking at the entire 19th Century.

The 19th Century (the 1800s) was, what some might call, a "Proto-Zionist" period.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

Just a reminder folks, we have plenty of threads dedicated to discussions of Palestinian and Israeli history, whether they are a people, occupations, the creation of Israel etc. This is not one of them. These discussions tend to take over threads an derail intended topics.

The topic of this thread is Palestine today....culture, current events...not fifty years ago, not a hundred years ago...not politics and not war.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Palestinian children play today at al-Aqsa Mosque which was re-opened to Muslim worshipers this week after about 50 days of closure due to the coronavirus pandemic.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A Palestinian man sells Ka'k at Bab al-Amud in the Old City of Jerusalem. Photo by Abdalafo Bassam.

 

[P F Tinmore]

A Palestinian harvests melons in Khan Yunis, southern Gaza Strip. Photo by Ashraf Amra.

 

[P F Tinmore]