Opinion: "Asking voters is not the way to end the death penalty"

[rightwinger]

I would like to see your rationale for claiming Jesus was "dead set against the Death Penalty".

Does this look like someone who supports the Death Penalty?

 

[hadit]

Does this look like someone who supports the Death Penalty?

View attachment 592591

Your evidence that Jesus didn't support the death penalty is Him fulfilling the very purpose for which He came here in the first place? I gave you evidence that He didn't oppose the state executing criminals. Can you give any evidence beyond "does this look like"? I have to believe you think of Jesus like a hippy from the 1970's.

 

[pknopp]

California has not executed anyone in 38 years. They have a death penalty but don’t use it. Ohio has suspended executions.
The others have executed five or less in almost 50 years.

Those who actively use the death penalty and brag about it are followers of Jesus who was dead set against the Death Penalty.

Most of the country still has the death penalty.

 

[rightwinger]

Your evidence that Jesus didn't support the death penalty is Him fulfilling the very purpose for which He came here in the first place? I gave you evidence that He didn't oppose the state executing criminals. Can you give any evidence beyond "does this look like"? I have to believe you think of Jesus like a hippy from the 1970's.

You don’t find it ironic that the very Christians who honor Jesus support the death penalty?

Jesus suffered horribly in an unjust execution
Yet, Christians have no reservation about executing people

Does this look like a man who supports the Death Penalty?

 

[rightwinger]

Most of the country still has the death penalty.

But they don’t use it
Most of our executions are in Texas and Oklahoma
The Federal Government hadn’t executed anyone in ten years before Trump went on an execution spree

 

[pknopp]

But they don’t use it
Most of our executions are in Texas and Oklahoma
The Federal Government hadn’t executed anyone in ten years before Trump went on an execution spree

Making it about Trump only makes it harder to stop.

 

[hadit]

You don’t find it ironic that the very Christians who honor Jesus support the death penalty?

Jesus suffered horribly in an unjust execution
Yet, Christians have no reservation about executing people

Does this look like a man who supports the Death Penalty?

View attachment 592596

IOW, no quotes from Him, nothing from His actions, just opinion because He was unjustly executed, as was the plan from the beginning.

 

[bendog]

Was He? He honored the Mosaic Law, which specified the death penalty for many transgressions. He didn't argue against that it was wrong when it was applied to Him. In short, He didn't say anything against the state executing criminals. He didn't say that the people who brought the woman caught in adultery (where was the man she was caught with?) to Him were wrong to say she should be executed. He merely shamed them into going away, then forgave her Himself. I would like to see your rationale for claiming Jesus was "dead set against the Death Penalty".

you just posted it. roflmao

 

[Rigby5]

I have always been torn about the DP. The state shouldnt have the authority to kill any citizen. Then again, what else do people deserve for pre meditated murder and we have absolute proof?

There is NEVER absolute proof.
You can have a signed confession and they could be covering for someone.
You can see the crime by hundreds of witnesses and they would not know whether or not it was justified by something the deceased secretly caused.
So absolute proof is never possible, and in fact, likely about 10% of those convicted actually are innocent.

More to the point, the death penalty does not act as a deterrent in any way.
It actually increases murder by example.
If society can execute without a qualm, then anyone can.
Society has no more authority than any one single individual in a democratic republic.
Individual inherent rights are the ONLY source of any legal authority, in a democratic republic.

 

[hadit]

you just posted it. roflmao

No, because people were being executed by the state the entire time He was here on earth, and He didn't speak out against it doing so. Had they not brought that woman to Him but just stoned her, we wouldn't have even heard of it. You have to understand that Jesus didn't say a whole lot about the government being wrong, even though His people were dominated by the brutal Romans at the time.

 

[bendog]

There is NEVER absolute proof.
You can have a signed confession and they could be covering for someone.
You can see the crime by hundreds of witnesses and they would not know whether or not it was justified by something the deceased secretly caused.
So absolute proof is never possible, and in fact, likely about 10% of those convicted actually are innocent.

More to the point, the death penalty does not act as a deterrent in any way.
It actually increases murder by example.
If society can execute without a qualm, then anyone can.
Society has no more authority than any one single individual in a democratic republic.
Individual inherent rights are the ONLY source of any legal authority, in a democratic republic.

That's similar to my reasoning. I'd add that the seemingly never ending court challanges to each individual sentenced to death up until a actual execution actually hurts any deterrent effect the DP still has. It's still a "no win" choice between death and life without parole. The victims are still dead, usually after horrible suffering. It's more a least bad of two choices.

 

[bendog]

No, because people were being executed by the state the entire time He was here on earth, and He didn't speak out against it doing so. Had they not brought that woman to Him but just stoned her, we wouldn't have even heard of it. You have to understand that Jesus didn't say a whole lot about the government being wrong, even though His people were dominated by the brutal Romans at the time.

HDS: So, are Christians like Dr. Mohler arguing for a position that is actually "worldly," but portraying it as wisdom received from God?

Clooney: Again, this requires a difficult balance. On the one hand, he’s employing a certain kind of Biblical literalism, where we take the words at face value as assertive of truths that can be directly applied in 2014. God says it’s okay to kill people under certain circumstances, so the states have the authority to execute prisoners now.

Others among us remain very skeptical, and do not believe we honor God’s word by such direct and seemingly simplistic applications.

On the other hand, Dr. Mohler seems to be assuming that the death penalty is justified because it’s good for American society today. But the evidence for that opinion is open to dispute, as I mentioned above. Quoting some passages from the Bible does not end the debate. But in the end, perhaps the burden is still greater for those who oppose the death penalty because it is not in keeping with the teachings and life of Jesus: if we really believe that, then we need to act like Jesus all the time, not just when it is the death penalty that is up for debate.

Christianity and Capital Punishment | HDS News Archive

news-archive.hds.harvard.edu

And Dostoyevsky had something to say on the issue in Karamazov LOL

 

[hadit]

HDS: So, are Christians like Dr. Mohler arguing for a position that is actually "worldly," but portraying it as wisdom received from God?

Clooney: Again, this requires a difficult balance. On the one hand, he’s employing a certain kind of Biblical literalism, where we take the words at face value as assertive of truths that can be directly applied in 2014. God says it’s okay to kill people under certain circumstances, so the states have the authority to execute prisoners now.

Others among us remain very skeptical, and do not believe we honor God’s word by such direct and seemingly simplistic applications.

On the other hand, Dr. Mohler seems to be assuming that the death penalty is justified because it’s good for American society today. But the evidence for that opinion is open to dispute, as I mentioned above. Quoting some passages from the Bible does not end the debate. But in the end, perhaps the burden is still greater for those who oppose the death penalty because it is not in keeping with the teachings and life of Jesus: if we really believe that, then we need to act like Jesus all the time, not just when it is the death penalty that is up for debate.

Christianity and Capital Punishment | HDS News Archive

news-archive.hds.harvard.edu

And Dostoyevsky had something to say on the issue in Karamazov LOL

And still remains His reverence for the Mosaic Law. He didn't oppose the Law's provisions for the execution of criminals. He didn't negate the punishment for sin, He took it on Himself.

 

[martybegan]

You don’t find it ironic that the very Christians who honor Jesus support the death penalty?

Jesus suffered horribly in an unjust execution
Yet, Christians have no reservation about executing people

Does this look like a man who supports the Death Penalty?

View attachment 592596

He had to be executed or he couldn't have saved the people he was sent to redeem.

The DP was required for his mission.

 

[martybegan]

But they don’t use it
Most of our executions are in Texas and Oklahoma
The Federal Government hadn’t executed anyone in ten years before Trump went on an execution spree

So the asshole who killed that cop and gravely wounded the other, who just came out of his room blasting and continued to fire after they were down only deserved 3 hots and a cot for decades if he had survived?

 

[bendog]

And still remains His reverence for the Mosaic Law. He didn't oppose the Law's provisions for the execution of criminals. He didn't negate the punishment for sin, He took it on Himself.

You have one opinion on an issue that is at best "unsettled" and has been debated by people more knowledgable and smarter than you or I.

 

[Rigby5]

A large segment of the medical community truly believes the vaccines are the right thing to do. It has nothing to do with politics.

About an equally large segment of the medical community is sure the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines at all, but just temporary treatments.
And as such, should NOT be given ahead of time, but instead administered AFTER infection, for maximum effect and minimum risk.

So then it is entirely about politics.
Those who "believe" the mRNA vaccines work as vaccines, have ZERO scientific basis.
It is not even a religion, but a money making motivated extortion racket.

 

[Rigby5]

Was He? He honored the Mosaic Law, which specified the death penalty for many transgressions. He didn't argue against that it was wrong when it was applied to Him. In short, He didn't say anything against the state executing criminals. He didn't say that the people who brought the woman caught in adultery (where was the man she was caught with?) to Him were wrong to say she should be executed. He merely shamed them into going away, then forgave her Himself. I would like to see your rationale for claiming Jesus was "dead set against the Death Penalty".

No, Jesus most certainly did NOT at all honor Mosaic Law, which stoned adulterers to death.
He said to let those who are without sin to cast the first stone.
So he was totally and completely against capital punishment.

The fact he did not try to contradict Mosaic law directly is not because he believed in Mosaic law, but that he knew it would not work.
He had no legal basis for a legal challenge, because he could not admit Moses was wrong.
That would have thrown away the previous legitimacy that Christianity was based on.
It would be saying God used to be wrong.

But it most certainly does NOT at all indicate Jesus supported capital punishment in any way.
Clearly we now all admit that Mosaic Law WAS wrong in almost all ways.
Moses supported slavery, murder, theft, etc.
The Hebrew refugees from the Exodus from Egypt should NEVER have attacked and murdered the Canaanites.
That was totally wrong and clearly a sin.

 

[pknopp]

About an equally large segment of the medical community is sure the mRNA vaccines are not vaccines at all, but just temporary treatments.

I do not believe that to be true.

But......vaccine's are often times temporary. Just like how people have to get the flu vaccine every year.

And as such, should NOT be given ahead of time, but instead administered AFTER infection, for maximum effect and minimum risk.

So then it is entirely about politics.
Those who "believe" the mRNA vaccines work as vaccines, have ZERO scientific basis.
It is not even a religion, but a money making motivated extortion racket.

It's nowhere near that simple. Anecdotal examples do not mean a lot but my cousin is a doctor. He is pretty right leaning. He built a house on top of a mountain so he could shoot off his guns whenever he wanted. He is an ER doctor. He has said "get the vaccine" that few people he see's in the ER are vaccinated.

 

[Rigby5]

So the asshole who killed that cop and gravely wounded the other, who just came out of his room blasting and continued to fire after they were down only deserved 3 hots and a cot for decades if he had survived?

Could be.
In general, the way cops execute warrants is dangerous, abusive, and illegal.
But I would need more details so I could read up on the actual case.