Operating a large farm tractor 8 hours for one dollar

[JohnDB]

A lot of things won't pan out before older people pass away. It's unfortunate that many of them seem to not care about things outside of their life span.

Oh I expect to live at least another 40+ years.

But I still don't expect to see an EV tractor by that point.

You gotta have horsepower...a lot of it to farm. And then the system has to be rugged to survive on a farm. Can't be so caught up in software updates that the tractor won't work until updated...that gets farmers extremely angry when they can't just climb on the tractor and go to work.

And all this fancy battery EV crap sounds like you spend a week getting ready to go to work for 8 hours...when you really need to work for 16 hours a day for the next two weeks.

 

[Anomalism]

Oh I expect to live at least another 40+ years.

But I still don't expect to see an EV tractor by that point.

You gotta have horsepower...a lot of it to farm. And then the system has to be rugged to survive on a farm. Can't be so caught up in software updates that the tractor won't work until updated...that gets farmers extremely angry when they can't just climb on the tractor and go to work.

And all this fancy battery EV crap sounds like you spend a week getting ready to go to work for 8 hours...when you really need to work for 16 hours a day for the next two weeks.

If you've got another 40 years I expect you'll be surprised by what we accomplish in that time. Technology is advancing multiplicatively. We're getting more and more advanced at a faster and faster rate.

 

[JohnDB]

If you've got another 40 years I expect you'll be surprised by what we accomplish in that time. Technology is advancing multiplicatively. We're getting more and more advanced at a faster and faster rate.

Nope...
Overly engineered crap is just that...crap that promises a lot but delivers nothing.

For any machine to be reliable it has to be simple. Otherwise it's the death by a thousand cuts routine. Especially in extreme conditions...and farming is all about extreme conditions.

Mud is an extreme environment. And farmers work in mud covered in snow every year.
Then there's the heat and dust.
Then there's the chemicals.

This isn't a clean room environment where you test things...and show with some fancy Gizmo how much torque the invention has.

Farming is not done with a room full of scientists watching a Gizmo perform and making adjustments in the fly for some sort of overly engineered piece of crap.

It's one guy thousands of feet and likely miles away from everyone (including too far away from cell towers for a signal) working on growing groceries. He has a looooong day to work all by himself. And dependable equipment is a must if he is going to get enough pennies together to form a paycheck at the end of the year.

This "One day it's going to work" ain't today.
This "We are quickly getting better" is a declaration of hope for you...not to a farmer. To a farmer it says "Don't bother with even looking at this crap for at least another 40 years"

EVs require a substantial capital investment in infrastructure. Even if it doesn't burn diesel it still requires a dedicated charging bank for the racks of heavy batteries. That's even more capital investment in another building or an addition to an existing one. The concrete pad alone is going to be a couple thousand dollars. NM the steel building to cover it and keep it all out of the rain. Then there's the whole "Lithium Batteries start fires" junk to work around.

"Oops! Sorry" doesn't cut it when dealing with people's lives. And an EV Tractor risks just that.

 

[JohnDB]

And I can remember how 8-track tapes were going to be the most permanent wave of the future...

Then it was Betamax tapes...

Then it was laser disk movies (disks as big as any LP)

Then it was walkman cassette players.

Then it was....I can't remember the other failed technology products.

But I do remember pet rocks and their huge success. People still play classic Monopoly to this day. Same thing with Shutes and ladders and Candy Land.

Cars don't fly...tractors still are used for farming because the robots never worked out either.

 

[westwall]

For now. This technology is rapidly improving.

Not really. Battery tech is the only major improvement area, and it is pretty much stagnant. They are improving packaging options, but that is pretty much all.

 

[Anomalism]

Not really. Battery tech is the only major improvement area, and it is pretty much stagnant. They are improving packaging options, but that is pretty much all.

I guess some people will never learn to stop underestimating humanity.

So many of you also lack the imagination to see beyond our current limitations. There are undiscovered technologies that will make the impossible possible. It's only a matter of time until we figure it out.

 

[westwall]

I guess some people will never learn to stop underestimating humanity.

So many of you also lack the imagination to see beyond our current limitations. There are undiscovered technologies that will make the impossible possible. It's only a matter of time until we figure it out.

I NEVER understimate human ingenuity. Battery tech is stalled due to physics. Mankind can't alter the laws of physics yet.

And not for a century at the very least.

 

[Anomalism]

I NEVER understimate human ingenuity. Battery tech is stalled due to physics. Mankind can't alter the laws of physics yet.

And not for a century at the very least.

I think you're wrong about the timeline. Also I doubt we'll be altering the laws of physics. We'll just possess a deeper understanding of physics.

 

[westwall]

I think you're wrong about the timeline. Also I doubt we'll be altering the laws of physics. We'll just possess a deeper understanding of physics.

Absent a major breakthrough in battery technology, we are stalled. They can figure out how to make batteries into new shapes, and how to manufacture them cheaper, but the energy density CAN'T change. And that is the point. Develop a room temperature super conductor and things will begin to happen. But, until that happens, we are stuck. That is why i never say never, but physics is physics, those laws don't change, but man is real good at working within those laws. IF HE IS ALLOWED TO!

The problems begin when government gets involved. So long as government rewards failure, there will be no incentive for advancement. Those who get the government dime won't allow real progress to happen because then they lose that dime.

 

[Anomalism]

Absent a major breakthrough in battery technology, we are stalled. They can figure out how to make batteries into new shapes, and how to manufacture them cheaper, but the energy density CAN'T change. And that is the point. Develop a room temperature super conductor and things will begin to happen. But, until that happens, we are stuck. That is why i never say never, but physics is physics, those laws don't change, but man is real good at working within those laws. IF HE IS ALLOWED TO!

The problems begin when government gets involved. So long as government rewards failure, there will be no incentive for advancement. Those who get the government dime won't allow real progress to happen because then they lose that dime.

I think there will definitely be a major breakthrough in battery technology. Whoever makes that breakthrough will go down in history and be a very wealthy person until the day they die. I doubt anybody would avoid that outcome on purpose.

I think your mistake is underestimating how much you don't actually understand about physics. How much humans don't understand about physics. The solution to this problem may present itself in a way that we can't even conceive right now.

 

[westwall]

I think there will definitely be a major breakthrough in battery technology. Whoever makes that breakthrough will go down in history and be a very wealthy person until the day they die. I doubt anybody would avoid that outcome on purpose.

I think your mistake is underestimating how much you don't actually understand about physics. How much humans don't understand about physics. The solution to this problem may present itself in a way that we can't even conceive right now.

I have a pretty good foundation in physics, to be honest. I was a working geologist for 45 years, physics is integral to geology, the same as chemistry and biology in some aspects.

I hope we develop Tesla's broadcast energy system instead. No batteries, and that would truly bring about a paradigm shift in transportation.

 

[Anomalism]

I have a pretty good foundation in physics, to be honest. I was a working geologist for 45 years, physics is integral to geology, the same as chemistry and biology in some aspects.

I hope we develop Tesla's broadcast energy system instead. No batteries, and that would truly bring about a paradigm shift in transportation.

You could know everything that humans know about physics and still be painfully ignorant. We haven't even had electricity for that long honestly. There's surely vast amounts to know that we don't know yet. I'd wager that there's far more to discover than has been discovered already.

We might discover an entirely new form of energy. Who knows?

 

[westwall]

You could know everything that humans know about physics and still be painfully ignorant. We haven't even had electricity for that long honestly. There's surely vast amounts to know that we don't know yet. I'd wager that there's far more to discover than has been discovered already.

We might discover an entirely new form of energy. Who knows?

All of that is true, however, I prefer to deal with the here, and now. Right now everything we do is shackled by the laws of physics. What man may discover in 100 years, a 1000 years, makes no difference to NOW. That's why we need to be as efficient with our energy usage as possible. The current state of EV technology is NOT efficient. It just isn't. It may be in the future, and i hope it is, but the only way that mankind can advance is to use the resources we have, as best we can.

 

[Anomalism]

All of that is true, however, I prefer to deal with the here, and now. Right now everything we do is shackled by the laws of physics. What man may discover in 100 years, a 1000 years, makes no difference to NOW. That's why we need to be as efficient with our energy usage as possible. The current state of EV technology is NOT efficient. It just isn't. It may be in the future, and i hope it is, but the only way that mankind can advance is to use the resources we have, as best we can.

You could be a little more supportive of it. It has come a long way and it will surely go a long way further. It's not a useless technology but many conservatives pretend that it is.

 

[KissMy]

I NEVER understimate human ingenuity. Battery tech is stalled due to physics. Mankind can't alter the laws of physics yet.

And not for a century at the very least.

Tesla Battery Day has proven they can build 500+ mile range cars for $18k, which is less than ICE vehicles by 2026. Since weight is not an issue for Tractors, they can become a reality much sooner.

 

[Decus]

That is sure to be very confusing info to Old Rocks and other greenies

the electric tractor could be a viable workhorse someday

and I dont claim to know how soon that day will arrive

So if greenies want to buy one with their own money and no subsidy from the government be my guest

Everything points to hydrogen fuel cells being the best "electric" fuel source for heavy equipment. Batteries may find their niche but not for heavy equipment.

Does Hydrogen Fuel Hold Potential for Farming? - Fuelcellsworks

Fuel cell technology, recently popularized by car manufacturers as a new renewable fuel source, uses hydrogen to power vehicles. Hydrogen technology may be a po...

fuelcellsworks.com

.

 

[Decus]

Tesla Battery Day has proven they can build 500+ mile range cars for $18k, which is less than ICE vehicles by 2026. Since weight is not an issue for Tractors, they can become a reality much sooner.

Most tractors are used during the day and would have to be charged at night. A charging battery bank would have to be installed and it would have to be larger than the battery bank in the tractor. Cost is one limiting factor in the use of batteries to power tractors.

.

 

[Mac-7]

Everything points to hydrogen fuel cells being the best "electric" fuel source for heavy equipment. Batteries may find their niche but not for heavy equipment.

Does Hydrogen Fuel Hold Potential for Farming? - Fuelcellsworks

Fuel cell technology, recently popularized by car manufacturers as a new renewable fuel source, uses hydrogen to power vehicles. Hydrogen technology may be a po...

fuelcellsworks.com

.

I dont think we can be SO CERTAIN what the future will hold

maybe hydrogen, maybe not

personally if hydrogen were available I would be happy with an internal combustion engine

I have no fixed preference

whatever works best

 

[Missourian]

EV's moving into another market;

Good luck. I have a 1939 Ford 9N around the back. My Grandpa bought it used in 1952. His first tractor. My Dad is fond of telling the story about converting all the house drawn implement to work with the tractor. And 82 years later I'm still using it, and anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of the internal combustion engine can repair it with nothing but screw drivers, open end wrenches, and a mallet.

After what those big tractor companies pulled with their proprietary diagnostic and repair software...don't expect too many takers. Farmers have looking memories....

 

[KissMy]

Most tractors are used during the day and would have to be charged at night. A charging battery bank would have to be installed and it would have to be larger than the battery bank in the tractor. Cost is one limiting factor in the use of batteries to power tractors.

Wrong! - Most row crop Farmers have a day job to subsidize their farming habit. Thanks to lights & GPS, tilling, planting, cultivating, fertilizing & spraying can get done at night. Most harvesting & roundup application is best after noon during the hottest part of the day.