Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[sealybobo]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

Are you trying to ruin this thread? Don’t you have anyone else to bore? These other two Christians, one a catholic and one a born again don’t care that I’m being honest. And they’ve responded with such wonderful thoughtful posts. Neither of them have once acted like you or hurled such insults as to call me a Nazi. I wish all Christians were like them but sadly most Christians are more like you.

 

[ding]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

Are you trying to ruin this thread? Don’t you have anyone else to bore? These other two Christians, one a catholic and one a born again don’t care that I’m being honest. And they’ve responded with such wonderful thoughtful posts. Neither of them have once acted like you or hurled such insults as to call me a Nazi. I wish all Christians were like them but sadly most Christians are more like you.

No. I am trying to wake your ass up.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Free will" then seems not what I've pictured it as prior, but it's still logically differentiable from having no reactionary decision making power at all.

Agreed. We still make choices. We are just not as much conscious agents of those choices as we thought. If at all.

 

[sealybobo]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

Like Trump said not all Nazis are bad. Good people on both sides.

So you are trying to use Trump to justify your bad behaviors.

I never said you were a bad person. I am saying you behave like a nazi.

You’re just a pussy ding

I imagine that's exactly what Hitler said to the Jews.

Less than 100 years ago christians in America didn’t treat the Jews very nicely. You know about this history right?

And hitler probably never personally killed a Jew. He told other German Catholics to do it and they had no problem doing it.

How is my behavior here anything like a Nazi? They were Christians.

Atheists have no reason to kill Jews but Jews killed your messiah so I can see why christians killed so many Jews. Another great example why religion is bullshit. wasnt the first religion Catholicism?

 

[sealybobo]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

Are you trying to ruin this thread? Don’t you have anyone else to bore? These other two Christians, one a catholic and one a born again don’t care that I’m being honest. And they’ve responded with such wonderful thoughtful posts. Neither of them have once acted like you or hurled such insults as to call me a Nazi. I wish all Christians were like them but sadly most Christians are more like you.

No. I am trying to wake your ass up.

These other two are doing a much better job. You only confirm my beliefs about Christianity being bad.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What's wrong because it's impossible to find exactly the same position again.

That's nonsense meant to beguile people. No it is not impossible. That process you described is perfectly deterministic. Just because we are ignorant of all of the mechanisms and so cannot make perfect predictions does not make it not deterministic.

 

[ding]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

Are you trying to ruin this thread? Don’t you have anyone else to bore? These other two Christians, one a catholic and one a born again don’t care that I’m being honest. And they’ve responded with such wonderful thoughtful posts. Neither of them have once acted like you or hurled such insults as to call me a Nazi. I wish all Christians were like them but sadly most Christians are more like you.

No. I am trying to wake your ass up.

These other two are doing a much better job. You only confirm my beliefs about Christianity being bad.

That's what Hitler said about the Jews.

 

[ding]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

Like Trump said not all Nazis are bad. Good people on both sides.

So you are trying to use Trump to justify your bad behaviors.

I never said you were a bad person. I am saying you behave like a nazi.

You’re just a pussy ding

I imagine that's exactly what Hitler said to the Jews.

Less than 100 years ago christians in America didn’t treat the Jews very nicely. You know about this history right?

And hitler probably never personally killed a Jew. He told other German Catholics to do it and they had no problem doing it.

How is my behavior here anything like a Nazi? They were Christians.

Atheists have no reason to kill Jews but Jews killed your messiah so I can see why christians killed so many Jews. Another great example why religion is bullshit. wasnt the first religion Catholicism?

Because you are combative towards religion. You are the aggressor. Look in a mirror. You are everything you claim to hate.

 

[sealybobo]

Yes I have lots of false ideas about Christianity. Know where I got them from? Christians.

And no matter how good the Christian is or how beautiful their interpretation of the Bible is, I still don’t buy it. I feel the entire thing is man made up.

You theists here all seem like the nicer kinds of Christians. I like your spin on the Bible. Good stuff. Still not buying it, but good for you.

Where do born agains stand on cops killing blacks by the way? As Christians what do you say to black christians when they say they are fed up?

First, thanks for being civil. That is always a breath of fresh air, especially on these types of threads.

Second, yes, unfortunately it is true that some churches or denominations teach things that are not biblical, and there is disagreement on certain things within Christianity. But there are certain basic things that all Christians agree on.

Something important that I think all seekers should keep in mind is that Christians (like all human beings) are not perfect, we all fall short, and if one looks to humans only, they will always be let down. Instead, look to Jesus, and just keep things simple. Religion is not the same thing as God. Religion (and that is a broad word, I know) can sometimes teach wrong things and can lead people astray. GOD on the other hand will never lead you astray.

As for your question about cops killing blacks. From a Christian perspective, racism is evil and wrong, the bible is clear that God does not see people the way humans see people. Humans look at outward appearance, God looks at the heart. (1 Samuel 16:7) Also, obviously murder is one of the worst things anyone can do, especially from a Christian perspective, for a number of reasons. Jesus clearly taught that we are to LOVE one another, and He even went beyond that. We are told to not love only the people who love us back, or the people who are in our own circles. But to love everyone, even our enemies. (Matthew 5:43-48)

There is more to be said but I don't want to get off topic here or make this too long, but hopefully that answered your question.

You’ve been interesting thoughtful and respectful even when I am honest about not believing your religion. If you truly believe, what I believe shouldn’t matter to the point where you get angry with me. You don’t take it personally and I appreciate you.

Notice how ding thinks I’m acting like a nazi? Doesn’t seem like he has half the faith you have. And he’s one of those Christians who thinks it doesn’t matter that he’s actually no a good person. It comes thru here.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Because you are combative towards religion. You are the aggressor.

Momma sure did raise a sissy. "Combative"? "Aggressor"? Oh my, someone needs some warm milk and a nap.

 

[sealybobo]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

Like Trump said not all Nazis are bad. Good people on both sides.

So you are trying to use Trump to justify your bad behaviors.

I never said you were a bad person. I am saying you behave like a nazi.

You’re just a pussy ding

I imagine that's exactly what Hitler said to the Jews.

Less than 100 years ago christians in America didn’t treat the Jews very nicely. You know about this history right?

And hitler probably never personally killed a Jew. He told other German Catholics to do it and they had no problem doing it.

How is my behavior here anything like a Nazi? They were Christians.

Atheists have no reason to kill Jews but Jews killed your messiah so I can see why christians killed so many Jews. Another great example why religion is bullshit. wasnt the first religion Catholicism?

Because you are combative towards religion. You are the aggressor. Look in a mirror. You are everything you claim to hate.

It all started when a theist said we don’t have open minds. I started this thread to say we do have open minds to the possibility a god exists. We just don’t accept any religions as evidence.

Is that combativeness? Sorry but that’s the discussion we are having. I miss the days before the first man (Moses) said god talked to him. Before him people discussed the possibility of a creator but neither side claimed to know. Religions ruined it.

 

[Oz and the Orchestra]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

Obviously it's pointless (and wrong) if one doesn't believe. Did anyone argue otherwise?

Baptism is a beautiful thing, when it's done the way it's meant to be done. I grew up in the Catholic church and got baptized as a baby, but that meant nothing. It was just a religious ritual. Obviously when I was a baby I didn't understand what was going on, and even when I got a little older and had my "first communion" and all that stuff, none of it was meaningful to me because I wasn't a believer at that time, I was just there because my mom made me go.

But then many years later, when I actually became a believer, for the first time in my life, I never went back to Catholicism, but I did get baptized, about 4 years after coming to Christ, in a pool in Hawaii, during my DTS through YWAM in Kona.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. Here is my baptism, near the beginning of this video.

meriweather and I were only baptized as babies. What will happen to us?

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by grace, through FAITH. When you have a true, saving faith, you become a new creation, literally "born from above"... in other words, it's like a second birth. The first one is physical, the second one is spiritual. I can't explain it, but it's a very real thing. It's almost like your DNA changes.

But getting back to baptism, that it just an outward symbol of something that already took place inside. It is something we do to show the world that we made the decision to put our faith in Jesus and follow Him. So of course it must be done when a person is old enough to understand it all. But the act of water baptism itself does not save anyone. The thief on the cross did not get water baptized, but he was clearly saved. Jesus said so Himself, when He said, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Is that more clear now?

So what if someone never gets baptized again as an adult? My brother and his wife are good people. They go to church. But the Greek orthodox Church doesn’t require members to go through the ceremony again. They were baptized as kids. They show up to church. They believe in Jesus.

So what is their punishment for not being baptized again as adults?

Did you not read the post you were replying to? It seems to have gone in one ear and out the other. I'll say it again, in different words. It doesn't matter if you get baptized or do not get baptized. Water baptism doesn't save anyone, it is not a prerequisite for salvation.

I'll copy / paste part of what I said to you earlier, and I'll underline the important part.

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by God's grace, through FAITH.​

So do we have that straight now? I get the feeling you are actually asking a different question, one that is answered very clearly in the bible, but if so I'll let you ask the real question you want to ask.

That’s what you believe but every born again I’ve ever met said different.

but I’m glad to hear you say it doesn’t matter. I agree

What? No born again Christian I've ever encountered (and I've known tons, as someone who was involved with world missions) says that water baptism is necessary for salvation, so I don't know where you're getting this from. It is not just my own personal belief, it is BIBLICAL.

Let's clear this up right now. Do you remember when the bible talks about the thief on the cross? Remember when Jesus was crucified, there were two other men who were crucified, two actual criminals. One of them was repentant and believed Jesus was who he claimed He was, and the other one was unrepentant and did not believe, in fact he blasphemed Jesus.

The repentant thief on the cross professed his faith and obviously there was no time for him to get dunked in water, but according to Jesus' own words he got saved, because Jesus said to him: “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Also, many people get saved on their deathbed. Obviously again, no time for water baptism then. You seem to have many false ideas about Christianity that are based on false teachings or mere religion, which is not always biblical and true.

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

Obviously it's pointless (and wrong) if one doesn't believe. Did anyone argue otherwise?

Baptism is a beautiful thing, when it's done the way it's meant to be done. I grew up in the Catholic church and got baptized as a baby, but that meant nothing. It was just a religious ritual. Obviously when I was a baby I didn't understand what was going on, and even when I got a little older and had my "first communion" and all that stuff, none of it was meaningful to me because I wasn't a believer at that time, I was just there because my mom made me go.

But then many years later, when I actually became a believer, for the first time in my life, I never went back to Catholicism, but I did get baptized, about 4 years after coming to Christ, in a pool in Hawaii, during my DTS through YWAM in Kona.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. Here is my baptism, near the beginning of this video.

meriweather and I were only baptized as babies. What will happen to us?

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by grace, through FAITH. When you have a true, saving faith, you become a new creation, literally "born from above"... in other words, it's like a second birth. The first one is physical, the second one is spiritual. I can't explain it, but it's a very real thing. It's almost like your DNA changes.

But getting back to baptism, that it just an outward symbol of something that already took place inside. It is something we do to show the world that we made the decision to put our faith in Jesus and follow Him. So of course it must be done when a person is old enough to understand it all. But the act of water baptism itself does not save anyone. The thief on the cross did not get water baptized, but he was clearly saved. Jesus said so Himself, when He said, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Is that more clear now?

So what if someone never gets baptized again as an adult? My brother and his wife are good people. They go to church. But the Greek orthodox Church doesn’t require members to go through the ceremony again. They were baptized as kids. They show up to church. They believe in Jesus.

So what is their punishment for not being baptized again as adults?

Did you not read the post you were replying to? It seems to have gone in one ear and out the other. I'll say it again, in different words. It doesn't matter if you get baptized or do not get baptized. Water baptism doesn't save anyone, it is not a prerequisite for salvation.

I'll copy / paste part of what I said to you earlier, and I'll underline the important part.

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by God's grace, through FAITH.​

So do we have that straight now? I get the feeling you are actually asking a different question, one that is answered very clearly in the bible, but if so I'll let you ask the real question you want to ask.

That’s what you believe but every born again I’ve ever met said different.

but I’m glad to hear you say it doesn’t matter. I agree

What? No born again Christian I've ever encountered (and I've known tons, as someone who was involved with world missions) says that water baptism is necessary for salvation, so I don't know where you're getting this from. It is not just my own personal belief, it is BIBLICAL.

Let's clear this up right now. Do you remember when the bible talks about the thief on the cross? Remember when Jesus was crucified, there were two other men who were crucified, two actual criminals. One of them was repentant and believed Jesus was who he claimed He was, and the other one was unrepentant and did not believe, in fact he blasphemed Jesus.

The repentant thief on the cross professed his faith and obviously there was no time for him to get dunked in water, but according to Jesus' own words he got saved, because Jesus said to him: “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Also, many people get saved on their deathbed. Obviously again, no time for water baptism then. You seem to have many false ideas about Christianity that are based on false teachings or mere religion, which is not always biblical and true.

Well I’ve met lots of born agains who ask me if I know where I’m going when I die. I’m sure you know this pitch right? After services your preacher tells you to all go out on Sunday and spread the word.

so these born agains ask me this question back when I was a Greek Orthodox. I explain to them I already belong to a Christian organization and they begin to tell me how they have it wrong. First, keep in mind the Greek Orthodox wrote the Bible. So it’s funny for these American born agains to tell us we have it wrong.

And they have all pointed out how it’s not good enough that I was baptized as a child. You have to do it again, and then they rope you in to their born again church.

i know a few people who were born Greek Orthodox but left it for a born again church. And a part of becoming a member, and in order to get into heaven, you got to be baptized.

I too remember being taught as a Catholic, that you can't go to heaven without being baptised . It is the reason babies will go to limbo and not heaven despite having committed no sin themselves. We are apparently all born with original sin - Eve's transgression in the garden of Eden and must be cleansed before entering heaven.

 

[sealybobo]

Because you are combative towards religion. You are the aggressor.

Momma sure did raise a sissy. "Combative"? "Aggressor"? Oh my, someone needs some warm milk and a nap.

And it’s not like I’m trying to start a holy war over it, decapitate theists for their beliefs or burn them at the stake. Ding can’t handle an honest atheist vs theist debate. Wwaaahhh you’re acting like a Nazi! It’s a thing people say when they are frustrated and feel they are being attacked personally.

Do you think ding would really act this way if he truly believed a god was watching over his shoulder?

 

[Mindful]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

Obviously it's pointless (and wrong) if one doesn't believe. Did anyone argue otherwise?

Baptism is a beautiful thing, when it's done the way it's meant to be done. I grew up in the Catholic church and got baptized as a baby, but that meant nothing. It was just a religious ritual. Obviously when I was a baby I didn't understand what was going on, and even when I got a little older and had my "first communion" and all that stuff, none of it was meaningful to me because I wasn't a believer at that time, I was just there because my mom made me go.

But then many years later, when I actually became a believer, for the first time in my life, I never went back to Catholicism, but I did get baptized, about 4 years after coming to Christ, in a pool in Hawaii, during my DTS through YWAM in Kona.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. Here is my baptism, near the beginning of this video.

meriweather and I were only baptized as babies. What will happen to us?

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by grace, through FAITH. When you have a true, saving faith, you become a new creation, literally "born from above"... in other words, it's like a second birth. The first one is physical, the second one is spiritual. I can't explain it, but it's a very real thing. It's almost like your DNA changes.

But getting back to baptism, that it just an outward symbol of something that already took place inside. It is something we do to show the world that we made the decision to put our faith in Jesus and follow Him. So of course it must be done when a person is old enough to understand it all. But the act of water baptism itself does not save anyone. The thief on the cross did not get water baptized, but he was clearly saved. Jesus said so Himself, when He said, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Is that more clear now?

So what if someone never gets baptized again as an adult? My brother and his wife are good people. They go to church. But the Greek orthodox Church doesn’t require members to go through the ceremony again. They were baptized as kids. They show up to church. They believe in Jesus.

So what is their punishment for not being baptized again as adults?

Did you not read the post you were replying to? It seems to have gone in one ear and out the other. I'll say it again, in different words. It doesn't matter if you get baptized or do not get baptized. Water baptism doesn't save anyone, it is not a prerequisite for salvation.

I'll copy / paste part of what I said to you earlier, and I'll underline the important part.

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by God's grace, through FAITH.​

So do we have that straight now? I get the feeling you are actually asking a different question, one that is answered very clearly in the bible, but if so I'll let you ask the real question you want to ask.

That’s what you believe but every born again I’ve ever met said different.

but I’m glad to hear you say it doesn’t matter. I agree

What? No born again Christian I've ever encountered (and I've known tons, as someone who was involved with world missions) says that water baptism is necessary for salvation, so I don't know where you're getting this from. It is not just my own personal belief, it is BIBLICAL.

Let's clear this up right now. Do you remember when the bible talks about the thief on the cross? Remember when Jesus was crucified, there were two other men who were crucified, two actual criminals. One of them was repentant and believed Jesus was who he claimed He was, and the other one was unrepentant and did not believe, in fact he blasphemed Jesus.

The repentant thief on the cross professed his faith and obviously there was no time for him to get dunked in water, but according to Jesus' own words he got saved, because Jesus said to him: “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Also, many people get saved on their deathbed. Obviously again, no time for water baptism then. You seem to have many false ideas about Christianity that are based on false teachings or mere religion, which is not always biblical and true.

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

Obviously it's pointless (and wrong) if one doesn't believe. Did anyone argue otherwise?

Baptism is a beautiful thing, when it's done the way it's meant to be done. I grew up in the Catholic church and got baptized as a baby, but that meant nothing. It was just a religious ritual. Obviously when I was a baby I didn't understand what was going on, and even when I got a little older and had my "first communion" and all that stuff, none of it was meaningful to me because I wasn't a believer at that time, I was just there because my mom made me go.

But then many years later, when I actually became a believer, for the first time in my life, I never went back to Catholicism, but I did get baptized, about 4 years after coming to Christ, in a pool in Hawaii, during my DTS through YWAM in Kona.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. Here is my baptism, near the beginning of this video.

meriweather and I were only baptized as babies. What will happen to us?

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by grace, through FAITH. When you have a true, saving faith, you become a new creation, literally "born from above"... in other words, it's like a second birth. The first one is physical, the second one is spiritual. I can't explain it, but it's a very real thing. It's almost like your DNA changes.

But getting back to baptism, that it just an outward symbol of something that already took place inside. It is something we do to show the world that we made the decision to put our faith in Jesus and follow Him. So of course it must be done when a person is old enough to understand it all. But the act of water baptism itself does not save anyone. The thief on the cross did not get water baptized, but he was clearly saved. Jesus said so Himself, when He said, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Is that more clear now?

So what if someone never gets baptized again as an adult? My brother and his wife are good people. They go to church. But the Greek orthodox Church doesn’t require members to go through the ceremony again. They were baptized as kids. They show up to church. They believe in Jesus.

So what is their punishment for not being baptized again as adults?

Did you not read the post you were replying to? It seems to have gone in one ear and out the other. I'll say it again, in different words. It doesn't matter if you get baptized or do not get baptized. Water baptism doesn't save anyone, it is not a prerequisite for salvation.

I'll copy / paste part of what I said to you earlier, and I'll underline the important part.

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by God's grace, through FAITH.​

So do we have that straight now? I get the feeling you are actually asking a different question, one that is answered very clearly in the bible, but if so I'll let you ask the real question you want to ask.

That’s what you believe but every born again I’ve ever met said different.

but I’m glad to hear you say it doesn’t matter. I agree

What? No born again Christian I've ever encountered (and I've known tons, as someone who was involved with world missions) says that water baptism is necessary for salvation, so I don't know where you're getting this from. It is not just my own personal belief, it is BIBLICAL.

Let's clear this up right now. Do you remember when the bible talks about the thief on the cross? Remember when Jesus was crucified, there were two other men who were crucified, two actual criminals. One of them was repentant and believed Jesus was who he claimed He was, and the other one was unrepentant and did not believe, in fact he blasphemed Jesus.

The repentant thief on the cross professed his faith and obviously there was no time for him to get dunked in water, but according to Jesus' own words he got saved, because Jesus said to him: “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Also, many people get saved on their deathbed. Obviously again, no time for water baptism then. You seem to have many false ideas about Christianity that are based on false teachings or mere religion, which is not always biblical and true.

Well I’ve met lots of born agains who ask me if I know where I’m going when I die. I’m sure you know this pitch right? After services your preacher tells you to all go out on Sunday and spread the word.

so these born agains ask me this question back when I was a Greek Orthodox. I explain to them I already belong to a Christian organization and they begin to tell me how they have it wrong. First, keep in mind the Greek Orthodox wrote the Bible. So it’s funny for these American born agains to tell us we have it wrong.

And they have all pointed out how it’s not good enough that I was baptized as a child. You have to do it again, and then they rope you in to their born again church.

i know a few people who were born Greek Orthodox but left it for a born again church. And a part of becoming a member, and in order to get into heaven, you got to be baptized.

I too remember being taught as a Catholic, that you can't go to heaven without being baptised . It is the reason babies will go to limbo and not heaven despite having committed no sin themselves. We are apparently all born with original sin - Eve's transgression in the garden of Eden and must be cleansed before entering heaven.

That’s what happens when you eat apples.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Wwaaahhh you’re acting like a Nazi! It’s a thing people say when they are frustrated and feel they are being attacked personally.

It's a thing ding says because he is a thin skinned sissy and, thinking he is actually normal, he thinks it will bother you as much as how even the merest slight throws ding into a tailspin.

 

[sealybobo]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

This thread was started because I said us agnostic atheists have open minds about the possibility a god exists but I don’t have an open mind to any organized religions. Yet Christians can’t help bring up the Bible because let’s face it that’s all they got.

if all we had was Islam, would you buy into it? Hell yea you would. If you never heard of Christianity you would have bought into whatever religion existed. To me that makes you or us stupid as a species. We should let that go

No. God's existence can be known through human reason. So the Bible is not all we have. Plus God's existence can be known through personal revelation.

But what does that have to do with you behaving like a nazi? Are you trying to say your behavior is justified?

Your reasoning is ultimately flawed and you must go on faith in things that are unbelievable.

Let god reveal himself to me then. Until then your revelations mean squat to me

 

[sealybobo]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

Obviously it's pointless (and wrong) if one doesn't believe. Did anyone argue otherwise?

Baptism is a beautiful thing, when it's done the way it's meant to be done. I grew up in the Catholic church and got baptized as a baby, but that meant nothing. It was just a religious ritual. Obviously when I was a baby I didn't understand what was going on, and even when I got a little older and had my "first communion" and all that stuff, none of it was meaningful to me because I wasn't a believer at that time, I was just there because my mom made me go.

But then many years later, when I actually became a believer, for the first time in my life, I never went back to Catholicism, but I did get baptized, about 4 years after coming to Christ, in a pool in Hawaii, during my DTS through YWAM in Kona.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. Here is my baptism, near the beginning of this video.

meriweather and I were only baptized as babies. What will happen to us?

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by grace, through FAITH. When you have a true, saving faith, you become a new creation, literally "born from above"... in other words, it's like a second birth. The first one is physical, the second one is spiritual. I can't explain it, but it's a very real thing. It's almost like your DNA changes.

But getting back to baptism, that it just an outward symbol of something that already took place inside. It is something we do to show the world that we made the decision to put our faith in Jesus and follow Him. So of course it must be done when a person is old enough to understand it all. But the act of water baptism itself does not save anyone. The thief on the cross did not get water baptized, but he was clearly saved. Jesus said so Himself, when He said, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Is that more clear now?

So what if someone never gets baptized again as an adult? My brother and his wife are good people. They go to church. But the Greek orthodox Church doesn’t require members to go through the ceremony again. They were baptized as kids. They show up to church. They believe in Jesus.

So what is their punishment for not being baptized again as adults?

Did you not read the post you were replying to? It seems to have gone in one ear and out the other. I'll say it again, in different words. It doesn't matter if you get baptized or do not get baptized. Water baptism doesn't save anyone, it is not a prerequisite for salvation.

I'll copy / paste part of what I said to you earlier, and I'll underline the important part.

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by God's grace, through FAITH.​

So do we have that straight now? I get the feeling you are actually asking a different question, one that is answered very clearly in the bible, but if so I'll let you ask the real question you want to ask.

That’s what you believe but every born again I’ve ever met said different.

but I’m glad to hear you say it doesn’t matter. I agree

What? No born again Christian I've ever encountered (and I've known tons, as someone who was involved with world missions) says that water baptism is necessary for salvation, so I don't know where you're getting this from. It is not just my own personal belief, it is BIBLICAL.

Let's clear this up right now. Do you remember when the bible talks about the thief on the cross? Remember when Jesus was crucified, there were two other men who were crucified, two actual criminals. One of them was repentant and believed Jesus was who he claimed He was, and the other one was unrepentant and did not believe, in fact he blasphemed Jesus.

The repentant thief on the cross professed his faith and obviously there was no time for him to get dunked in water, but according to Jesus' own words he got saved, because Jesus said to him: “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Also, many people get saved on their deathbed. Obviously again, no time for water baptism then. You seem to have many false ideas about Christianity that are based on false teachings or mere religion, which is not always biblical and true.

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pMorins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

Unfortunately there are entire churches, some mega churches, and they teach that catholicism is not the way.

of course they are competing for members so of course that’s what they’re going to say.

Born agains for example have told me I’m not saved because I was baptized as a child. i have to do it as an adult on my own. I think Catholics are baptized as babies too right? So what do you say to them?

I'm just curious to know why you're asking that. Is that you genuinely want to know which idea is actually correct, or are you bringing up these differences for some other reason?

Any true doctrine should be backed up biblically. Not by one verse in an unclear way, but backed up clearly by numerous scriptures and the overall message of the bible.

Infant baptism is blatantly unbiblical. Jesus Himself was baptized as a grown man, but it's not so much age that is the issue, but understanding what one is doing (which obviously babies or young children cannot) and Jesus is always our example.

Neither is right. Being baptized in the Christian Church is pointless if you are an atheist. but I want to know what you would say to a born again who says you have to be baptized again.

This btw is how born agains recruit new members from the Catholic and Greek Orthodox faith. They tell us our church has it all wrong.

I couldn’t be baptized right now because I don’t believe so I would be lying to the congregation when he asked do you renounce Satan? I’d have to say honestly I don’t believe in Satan or god. I would have to lie. I don’t think god will punish me for that. He should have written a more convincing book.

Obviously it's pointless (and wrong) if one doesn't believe. Did anyone argue otherwise?

Baptism is a beautiful thing, when it's done the way it's meant to be done. I grew up in the Catholic church and got baptized as a baby, but that meant nothing. It was just a religious ritual. Obviously when I was a baby I didn't understand what was going on, and even when I got a little older and had my "first communion" and all that stuff, none of it was meaningful to me because I wasn't a believer at that time, I was just there because my mom made me go.

But then many years later, when I actually became a believer, for the first time in my life, I never went back to Catholicism, but I did get baptized, about 4 years after coming to Christ, in a pool in Hawaii, during my DTS through YWAM in Kona.

So you agree with born agains? Are Catholics baptized as babies or adults? News to me if you guys do it twice. And I thought you did it to your bandaids. Archie took meatheads baby to a Catholic Church to get baptism didn’t he?

Yes, I'm a born-again Christian. Here is my baptism, near the beginning of this video.

meriweather and I were only baptized as babies. What will happen to us?

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by grace, through FAITH. When you have a true, saving faith, you become a new creation, literally "born from above"... in other words, it's like a second birth. The first one is physical, the second one is spiritual. I can't explain it, but it's a very real thing. It's almost like your DNA changes.

But getting back to baptism, that it just an outward symbol of something that already took place inside. It is something we do to show the world that we made the decision to put our faith in Jesus and follow Him. So of course it must be done when a person is old enough to understand it all. But the act of water baptism itself does not save anyone. The thief on the cross did not get water baptized, but he was clearly saved. Jesus said so Himself, when He said, "Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise."

Is that more clear now?

So what if someone never gets baptized again as an adult? My brother and his wife are good people. They go to church. But the Greek orthodox Church doesn’t require members to go through the ceremony again. They were baptized as kids. They show up to church. They believe in Jesus.

So what is their punishment for not being baptized again as adults?

Did you not read the post you were replying to? It seems to have gone in one ear and out the other. I'll say it again, in different words. It doesn't matter if you get baptized or do not get baptized. Water baptism doesn't save anyone, it is not a prerequisite for salvation.

I'll copy / paste part of what I said to you earlier, and I'll underline the important part.

Salvation is not about baptism. I don't where you got the idea that it was. We are saved by God's grace, through FAITH.​

So do we have that straight now? I get the feeling you are actually asking a different question, one that is answered very clearly in the bible, but if so I'll let you ask the real question you want to ask.

That’s what you believe but every born again I’ve ever met said different.

but I’m glad to hear you say it doesn’t matter. I agree

What? No born again Christian I've ever encountered (and I've known tons, as someone who was involved with world missions) says that water baptism is necessary for salvation, so I don't know where you're getting this from. It is not just my own personal belief, it is BIBLICAL.

Let's clear this up right now. Do you remember when the bible talks about the thief on the cross? Remember when Jesus was crucified, there were two other men who were crucified, two actual criminals. One of them was repentant and believed Jesus was who he claimed He was, and the other one was unrepentant and did not believe, in fact he blasphemed Jesus.

The repentant thief on the cross professed his faith and obviously there was no time for him to get dunked in water, but according to Jesus' own words he got saved, because Jesus said to him: “Assuredly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise.”

Also, many people get saved on their deathbed. Obviously again, no time for water baptism then. You seem to have many false ideas about Christianity that are based on false teachings or mere religion, which is not always biblical and true.

Well I’ve met lots of born agains who ask me if I know where I’m going when I die. I’m sure you know this pitch right? After services your preacher tells you to all go out on Sunday and spread the word.

so these born agains ask me this question back when I was a Greek Orthodox. I explain to them I already belong to a Christian organization and they begin to tell me how they have it wrong. First, keep in mind the Greek Orthodox wrote the Bible. So it’s funny for these American born agains to tell us we have it wrong.

And they have all pointed out how it’s not good enough that I was baptized as a child. You have to do it again, and then they rope you in to their born again church.

i know a few people who were born Greek Orthodox but left it for a born again church. And a part of becoming a member, and in order to get into heaven, you got to be baptized.

I too remember being taught as a Catholic, that you can't go to heaven without being baptised . It is the reason babies will go to limbo and not heaven despite having committed no sin themselves. We are apparently all born with original sin - Eve's transgression in the garden of Eden and must be cleansed before entering heaven.

Buttercup, here is someone who can corroborate the stuff I’ve heard.

 

[Grumblenuts]

sealybobo

What exactly is the reason, why you call yourselve "agnostic"? YOUkw a liotiobf thgin - mostbof thenthgin younkow seem to be wrong - but what is your agnostic element? What exactly is the reason, why you call yourselve "agnostic"?

Because there very well could be a god. I don’t know for sure there is not a god.

Just like you don’t know for sure there is a god. You may believe but you’re doing it on faith Not factual knowledge

Same can be argued regarding the Tooth Fairy, Easter Bunny, Spaghetti Monster, Ghosts, the Boogie Man, Abdominal Snowman... anything one wants. Your version:

"I do not know there is not a god."

Double negative. Cancelling out the superfluous nots literally reduces the assertion to:

"I do know there is a god." Sure, because same premise - "FAITH"

I know that's not what you meant to say. But, whoomp, they it is!

he didn't say nothing

yep, he said a thing!

 

[ding]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

Like Trump said not all Nazis are bad. Good people on both sides.

So you are trying to use Trump to justify your bad behaviors.

I never said you were a bad person. I am saying you behave like a nazi.

You’re just a pussy ding

I imagine that's exactly what Hitler said to the Jews.

Less than 100 years ago christians in America didn’t treat the Jews very nicely. You know about this history right?

And hitler probably never personally killed a Jew. He told other German Catholics to do it and they had no problem doing it.

How is my behavior here anything like a Nazi? They were Christians.

Atheists have no reason to kill Jews but Jews killed your messiah so I can see why christians killed so many Jews. Another great example why religion is bullshit. wasnt the first religion Catholicism?

Because you are combative towards religion. You are the aggressor. Look in a mirror. You are everything you claim to hate.

It all started when a theist said we don’t have open minds. I started this thread to say we do have open minds to the possibility a god exists. We just don’t accept any religions as evidence.

Is that combativeness? Sorry but that’s the discussion we are having. I miss the days before the first man (Moses) said god talked to him. Before him people discussed the possibility of a creator but neither side claimed to know. Religions ruined it.

No, dude. It started a long time ago. It's systemic with you. You are the cop who puts his knee on the neck of the black guy because he doesn't like black guys. Your black guy just happens to be religious people.

It's not a good look on you.

I'm sorry you don't like me speaking the truth but there it is.

 

[ding]

Please seriously consider the fact that what generally happens to people who end up "studying", believing, and spreading such crap as opposed to those who don't is so far nothing of great note. It can be logically presumed that atheists end up having more time to pursue other things, but getting distracted by such petty differences misses the huge, single, obvious conclusion. We clearly need fear no significant result from choosing to ignore / outright reject the entire load of bullshit. Plenty of time has passed to evaluate the truth of every stupid, beaten to death religious claim, whether it be carrot or stick. Turns out we're really just animals. No life beyond death period. No special place to go, either upward or down. No pearly gates. No final judgement. No angels coming. No "Saving." It's all just been divisive, manipulative crap from the very beginning. No different than Dubya's insistent, repeated claims of Iraq hiding "weapons of mass destruction." Fear, fear, fear. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Check here for a great analysis of atheist ethics..

In your opinion. The overwhelming majority of the world disagrees. Not that truth is determined by the majority, it isn't. But most people intuitively know that life, the physical world, everything that exists didn't come about by dumb luck. Those who don't see it have a form of blindness. I understand it because I've been there myself. But it's so much more than that, that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Atheism has numerous problems, logical errors, which can never be resolved. Why? Because it's simply not the truth. That said, no amount of discussing this or debating is going to make the difference in causing someone to believe. Apologetics can break down certain obstacles or misunderstandings that people have. But ultimately it's not what causes anyone to come to faith.

But that’s just wishful thinking and we are a very primitive creature barely two steps out of the cave.

But people are people all over the world. You think the fact that they all believe in something proves something? I say the fact that their understanding of this thing being so different tells me its all just man made up.

I can forgive my grandmother because she grew up in Greece and had no education. Even still, it amazes me a human can buy any holy book stories. Not just Christianity. Any of them.

look at the Mormons. How can so many people believe such stupidity? It’s because just like muslims they too want there to be a heaven.

Think about our ancient ancestors. Grandpa just got eaten by a saber toothed tiger. Don’t worry gramma you’ll see him in the afterlife. This made our ancestors feel better. And my dad is doing the same thing. He says he truly believes that he will see her again. That’s just wishful thinking.

You are unwittingly corroborating what the bible says. The bible is clear that nonbelievers think faith is foolishness and they think they're smarter than everyone else. Many nonbelievers have a very prideful attitude, thinking they're too "smart" or "mature" to believe.

To me that mindset reminds me of a teenager who is trying so hard to be grown up and doesn't want to be seen as a child, so they have this attitude that they know everything, and that everyone else is stupid, and they don't need to learn from anyone because they think they have it all figured out.

It's trying too hard, and by trying to appear so intelligent and mature, it inadvertently shows just the opposite, an immaturity and lack of wisdom. True wisdom means understanding that we aren't as smart as we think we are, and we know next to nothing in comparison to all there is to know. It is the opposite of pride, which is thinking that we're too smart to believe in "childish" things.

CS Lewis has a quote about this, which is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but it makes basically the same point that I just made. He said: “When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty, I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.”

Jesus taught that unless we become childlike, we will never come to God. But there is an important difference between being childish and childlike. The latter simply means teachable, humble, trusting God similar to how a child trusts his parents.

Being an atheist is like being the only sober person in the car but no one will give you the keys

Other than your nazi like behaviors towards religion no one gives a shit about your atheism, bro.

This thread was started because I said us agnostic atheists have open minds about the possibility a god exists but I don’t have an open mind to any organized religions. Yet Christians can’t help bring up the Bible because let’s face it that’s all they got.

if all we had was Islam, would you buy into it? Hell yea you would. If you never heard of Christianity you would have bought into whatever religion existed. To me that makes you or us stupid as a species. We should let that go

No. God's existence can be known through human reason. So the Bible is not all we have. Plus God's existence can be known through personal revelation.

But what does that have to do with you behaving like a nazi? Are you trying to say your behavior is justified?

Your reasoning is ultimately flawed and you must go on faith in things that are unbelievable.

Let god reveal himself to me then. Until then your revelations mean squat to me

Of course they don't mean anything to you. You are on a mission.