Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[Meriweather]

There's obviously a world of difference, which I'm quite confident you easily discern, between saying someone's beginning to sound like a bully and saying they're being a bully.

There is nothing remotely bullying about Sealybobo. He is not one, he does not sound like one, and is not even beginning to sound like one. How odd that anyone would think this and even more odd then to go ahead and put the thought into words.

What I marvel over are posters who think they know what others are "really" doing, which in one post you are doing to two posters. We are simply having a discussion on an issue, not about other posters.

 

[Grumblenuts]

{Thanks to RoccoR for the search link}

Why Believe?: Fear (the single, undeniable, genuine basis - fear of just rotting away, of being judged eternally stupid, of not going to heaven, of going to hell, of...) Two Christian Bible quotes just for starters and reference:

Proverbs 14:27
The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life,
That one may avoid the snares of death.

Romans 8:6
Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].

Note that, even in this life, Christians are taught that non-believers are already dead, miserable, wrongdoers. Such nice, committed, shit flinging folks, these oh so moral "Christians"!)

 

[Grumblenuts]

There's obviously a world of difference, which I'm quite confident you easily discern, between saying someone's beginning to sound like a bully and saying they're being a bully.

There is nothing remotely bullying about Sealybobo. He is not one, he does not sound like one, and is not even beginning to sound like one. How odd that anyone would think this and even more odd then to go ahead and put the thought into words.

What I marvel over are posters who think they know what others are "really" doing, which in one post you are doing to two posters. We are simply having a discussion on an issue, not about other posters.

Thanks, pest. You're always entitled to share your opinion!
(and me mine)

 

[Meriweather]

Christians are taught that non-believers are already dead, miserable, wrongdoers.

What a few of the smaller groups of Christians say should not be attributed to all of Christianity. I, and millions of other Christians, were taught no such thing.

 

[Meriweather]

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life,

In the original Hebrew 'fear' translates better as 'awe'. Take a look a the definitions of fear in the dictionary. The fourth definition reads: reverential awe, esp. toward God.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Christians are taught that non-believers are already dead, miserable, wrongdoers.

What a few of the smaller groups of Christians say should not be attributed to all of Christianity. I, and millions of other Christians, were taught no such thing.

So you're pleading both superior knowledge and ignorance at the same time. Lovely. Sorry, I'm just quoting from your book.

 

[Grumblenuts]

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life,

In the original Hebrew 'fear' translates better as 'awe'. Take a look a the definitions of fear in the dictionary. The fourth definition reads: reverential awe, esp. toward God.

Great. Clever. That might fly maybe if not for the consequences of not doing so being clearly and immediately listed.. Right there. In your face!

 

[Meriweather]

Sorry, I'm just quoting from your book.

The one from Romans comes to mind, where Paul says the law is written on every human heart--and unbelievers will be judged by their own hearts. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that all non-believers are in the hands of a merciful and loving God.

Now, you were saying?

 

[Meriweather]

so being clearly and immediately listed..

You are aware that Paul is outlining the differences between the differences of sin existing in our physical existence and lack of sin when one is solely in the Spirit?

 

[Grumblenuts]

so being clearly and immediately listed..

You are aware that Paul is outlining the differences between the differences of sin existing in our physical existence and lack of sin when one is solely in the Spirit?

No, there's a tad more to it. You're just in denial so being evasive.

 

[Grumblenuts]

Sorry, I'm just quoting from your book.

The one from Romans comes to mind, where Paul says the law is written on every human heart--and unbelievers will be judged by their own hearts. The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that all non-believers are in the hands of a merciful and loving God.

Now, you were saying?

Judged even currently. Who could really care less after we're worm food? "Can't take it with you!" No, the real problem is that Christians are taught they're superior to everyone else. Above, therefore we're unequal. That's just sick.

 

[Blues Man]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

 

[Meriweather]

No, there's a tad more to it. You're just in denial so being evasive.

Then let us discuss that additional tad. Keep in mind there is a difference between someone being "evasive" and someone trying to be succinct.

 

[Blues Man]

atheists are fatalists because they can't see how good can come from bad. A realist can see how good can come from bad and deals with the bad that way. A realist doesn't get discouraged by life. A nihilist does.

No Atheists do not believe that some supreme being has already written their fate.

And I am not discouraged by anything life throws at me. In fact I am a very content man. I just don't fool myself that anything I do while I'm alive will mean anything to the universe

 

[Meriweather]

No, the real problem is that Christians are taught they're superior to everyone else.

First I have heard of this. Which denomination teaches that little gem?

 

[Grumblenuts]

Then let us discuss that additional tad.

Already done. Refer back to post #462.

 

[Meriweather]

Already done. Refer back to post #462.

Already referenced that post twice. You said there was a tad more?

 

[Grumblenuts]

No, the real problem is that Christians are taught they're superior to everyone else.

First I have heard of this. Which denomination teaches that little gem?

Why, so you can then label it obscure, wrongheaded, misinterpreted, unChristian,.. ? Again,

Romans 8:6
Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].

Note that, even in this life, Christians are taught that non-believers are already dead, miserable, wrongdoers.

That says those who accept Jaysus, fear or hold "God" in "Awe" (whether dead or alive!), whateverthehell,..
1. Possess no soul (nothing to "Save" in the supposed afterlife to begin with so one may as well fagettaboutit! - Fear of loss. No heaven for you! (Unless!, of course..) Now go ahead- Deny it some more.. You can't help it..
2. So again, IN THIS LIFE, not even bothering with any promised future silliness,.. no "life" nor "peace." We're all just miserable and the Walking Dead far as you self-satisfied, holier-than-thou pricks are concerned.

My wife is a "caregiver." She helps elderly, sick people for a living which generally results in them being able to stay in their homes much longer and their entire families to be happier. When good clients (potential new ones or just those getting tired of her agency sending them their usual lazy, boring, dumb help), they'll send her given she has the available time; saying "Okay, okay, we'll send you our best" or something equivalent. Everyone loves her immediately and insists upon them sending only her from then on. That's, of course, not possible. But the Bible thumpers among them all express shock and dismay upon learning she's an atheist. "No, really.. how terrible! I simply can't believe it!" Our closest friends are devout Christians. Nice people. Not like, you know, all those assholish ones at all!

 

[BreezeWood]

Okay, I stand corrected, I guess. My point was really that the original so-called "Big Bang" event is logically unrelatable to Darwin's theory.

.
not necessarily the theory but how could actual evolution and the BB not be related similarly to the grand design.

Your mileage is, of course, free to vary however you like. But for me at least, evolution, theory or otherwise, connotes changes in species that occur over long periods of time or generations as a result of natural selection. It's, in fact, defined as such, okay? Nothing about the "Big Bang" event suggests life for a long, long time. By contrast, according to Alexa, "the grand design" is a book by Stephen Halking and someone else discussing the history of scientific knowledge about the universe. I doubt that's what you meant to discuss, but it shows how vague your statement was. Obviously atheists don't use any terms to describe plans supposedly made by god(s) since there are presumed none until convincing evidence is found to think otherwise. "Design theory" has always just struck me as dim bulb bait. Fodder for the most gullible only.

Your mileage is, of course, free to vary however you like. But for me at least, evolution, theory or otherwise, connotes changes in species that occur over long periods of time or generations as a result of natural selection.

Obviously atheists don't use any terms to describe plans supposedly made by god(s) since there are presumed none until convincing evidence is found to think otherwise.

.
you seem to equate the desert religions, god's to religions where indeed they are at best forged, falsified political posturing. - - > of actual events they have purposefully misconstrued for deleterious purposes - meriweather.


I provided visual proof of the metaphysical -

the individual transforms themselves from one being into another - natural selection ultimately is a self directed choice that is deterministic.

until an atheist provides the origin of their existence they are no different than the madeup desert religions - not the same as the religion of antiquity that does give meaning to the origin of life and the avenue possible for spiritual existence beyond physiology for life in the Everlasting. the triumph of good vs evil.

 

[Meriweather]

My wife is a "caregiver." She helps elderly, sick people for a living which generally results in them being able to stay in their homes much longer and their entire families to be happier. When good clients (potential new ones or just those getting tired of her agency sending them their usual lazy, boring, dumb help), they'll send her given she has the available time; saying "Okay, okay, we'll send you our best" or something equivalent. Everyone loves her immediately and insists upon them sending only her from then on. That's, of course, not possible. But the Bible thumpers among them all express shock and dismay upon learning she's an atheist. "No, really.. how terrible! I simply can't believe it!"

This account does not surprise me in the least. There have been atheists in my family for generations. It appears that some people confuse atheism with bad behavior. No belief is no way equates to bad behavior. 'My' atheists are some of the best behaved, most generous people anyone can hope to meet.