Open Minded Agnostic Atheist

[sealybobo]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Most people in England may tick the Church of England/ Catholic box on the census, but its really just the club we where born into.
I think most people if pushed would declare themselves either agnostlc if not atheist.

Wholly believe in the christian teaching, but I go on quantum probability not relative certainty. The abrahamic concept of an omnipotent monolithic being as God in Judaism, Christianity & Islam I find totally improbable. Eastern polytheist religion particularly Taoism I find far more convincing.
I do not however go along with the so called evolutionists Universe by accident theory. Far too much evidence of intelligent design to my mind!

I believe that there is some form of intelligent energy I.E. that permeates the universe. In its perfect state in a zero size multidimensional pre big bang quantum state it is perfect. Post big bang to cover the trillions of square miles of relative space it is diluted down to a mathematical intelligence.
So God to my mind is a form of Intelligent Energy.

I'm open to all this. I love it! Great post. Quite possible.

We know so little. Consider a tardigrade. It can't see outside the drop of water it lives in. It can't see us even though we are giants living right above them. A whale can probably look up and see the stars but they will never look into a microscope and see the moon up close. We can sort of see other galaxies but not up close. Hell, we don't even know if there is life in Europa or if there is a 7th planet out past the meteor belt. It is so far out and so dark there it's hard for us to see it without having the sun as a backdrop.

So I won't pretend to know or say there is no god. I just don't see any evidence that makes me believe there is one. But maybe there is. I don't think it would punish me or care if I believe it exists. I don't even think it cares if you are good or bad. And I don't think that there is a paradise I live in for the rest of eternity just because I believe in it or because I'm a good person. I think that's all just human made up wishful thinking.

 

[Grumblenuts]

until an atheist provides the origin of their existence they are no different than the madeup desert religions - not the same as the religion of antiquity that does give meaning to the origin of life and the avenue possible for spiritual existence beyond physiology for life in the Everlasting. the triumph of good vs evil.

Well, this atheist has certainly provided his thoughts upon "origins of existence" - "Everlasting" to boot - which possess profound meaning for him. Apparently you outright dismiss them so we'll just have to agree to disagree on this stuff. Again, I really love the picture, however it reveals nothing metaphysical to me. Really just an insect shedding its skin. But the imagination is engaged.

 

[zaangalewa]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

I'm not a fatalist I do not think anything is predetermined. In fact I am just the opposite as I think events are totally random and chaotic.

And I can be a realist and a nihilist as the 2 are not mutually exclusive.

A realist is not able to say "everything is an illusion". Something has to produce this illusion. Cogito ergo sum.

In fact I do accept things the way they and deal with the way things are on a daily basis but in the really big picture I can also accept that those same things are meaningless

It's meaningless to say things are meaningless. Nothing what's real is unimportant. A minimal cause is able to produce a maximal effect. Example: A mutation of a virus starts a pandemic.

 

[Grumblenuts]

My wife is a "caregiver." She helps elderly, sick people for a living which generally results in them being able to stay in their homes much longer and their entire families to be happier. When good clients (potential new ones or just those getting tired of her agency sending them their usual lazy, boring, dumb help), they'll send her given she has the available time; saying "Okay, okay, we'll send you our best" or something equivalent. Everyone loves her immediately and insists upon them sending only her from then on. That's, of course, not possible. But the Bible thumpers among them all express shock and dismay upon learning she's an atheist. "No, really.. how terrible! I simply can't believe it!"

This account does not surprise me in the least. There have been atheists in my family for generations. It appears that some people confuse atheism with bad behavior. No belief is no way equates to bad behavior. 'My' atheists are some of the best behaved, most generous people anyone can hope to meet.

You miss the genuine point. Not some, but all express such shock. And not due simply to her "behavior." They really like and trust her altogether almost immediately. Just as I did upon meeting her thirty years ago. She doesn't advertise her atheism, but they inevitably bump into it one way or another.. Then the shock expressed is akin to one suddenly learning a close, close friend has terminal cancer. OMGWTF!! It's unmistakably a combination of sorrow, disgust, fear, and concern. All completely uncalled for. I've had many similar (always bizarre) experiences. One never gets quite used to it.

 

[sealybobo]

I think you're trying a little too hard, seally, your frustration making you sound like a bully. Don't ruin your own topic by trying to force agreement, not to mention saying "Trust me" unless plainly sarcastically

Well I don't like it when Christians start using the bible as their proof. It should be banned/barred from this discussion.

I miss the days before Moses came down from the mountain and said he saw/talked to god. No he didn't.

 

[Grumblenuts]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Most people in England may tick the Church of England/ Catholic box on the census, but its really just the club we where born into.
I think most people if pushed would declare themselves either agnostlc if not atheist.

Wholly believe in the christian teaching, but I go on quantum probability not relative certainty. The abrahamic concept of an omnipotent monolithic being as God in Judaism, Christianity & Islam I find totally improbable. Eastern polytheist religion particularly Taoism I find far more convincing.
I do not however go along with the so called evolutionists Universe by accident theory. Far too much evidence of intelligent design to my mind!

I believe that there is some form of intelligent energy I.E. that permeates the universe. In its perfect state in a zero size multidimensional pre big bang quantum state it is perfect. Post big bang to cover the trillions of square miles of relative space it is diluted down to a mathematical intelligence.
So God to my mind is a form of Intelligent Energy.

I'm open to all this. I love it! Great post. Quite possible.

We know so little. Consider a tardigrade. It can't see outside the drop of water it lives in. It can't see us even though we are giants living right above them. A whale can probably look up and see the stars but they will never look into a microscope and see the moon up close. We can sort of see other galaxies but not up close. Hell, we don't even know if there is life in Europa or if there is a 7th planet out past the meteor belt. It is so far out and so dark there it's hard for us to see it without having the sun as a backdrop.

So I won't pretend to know or say there is no god. I just don't see any evidence that makes me believe there is one. But maybe there is. I don't think it would punish me or care if I believe it exists. I don't even think it cares if you are good or bad. And I don't think that there is a paradise I live in for the rest of eternity just because I believe in it or because I'm a good person. I think that's all just human made up wishful thinking.

I'm open to much of it. Can't agree on the "intelligent design" stuff at all though. If one wants to simply equate nature or "Mother Nature" with being a god or gods, fine. Else we've got issues.

 

[sealybobo]

It's a realization that us atheists have when contemplating if your religion or any other religion is true. You christians claim that when your earthly body expires that your sour lives on for all eternity and never gets sick, sad or mad. Where did I get this idea? Christians showed me in the bible where it says you are gods after you die.

Of course it didn't say you will be gods when you die because the story says there is only one god. Only problem is you all become gods when you die. You move on to a rhelm where you never get sick old or angry. If that's not a god what is? Maybe you aren't GOD but you are a god. Small g.

So now I know what some atheists believe about what Christians believe. As a Christian of the Catholic denomination, I can assure these atheists it is not what Christians believe. It is always good to be advised about what the uninformed are saying, even when there is nothing that can be done about it. Anyway, thank you.

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

But I also know that Catholics believe one day every other denomination will eventually join the catholic church because you guys believe you are the one true religion. The original.

You know us Greek Orthodox used to be Catholics but then we branched off? Why do you think we left the Catholic Church?

I like what the Mormons say about Catholics. God told Joseph Smith that the first Pope was Peter and he was good, but then he handed the power to the next pope who too was a good man. But throughout the years the church was corrupted and evil rich men started becoming the Pope. Long story short is you guys lost your moral authority and divine connection to god. It was lost somewhere between the first pope and the one you have now. So your church no longer has the approval of god. And God told Joseph Smith to start his own religion.


Funny you can't get over the fact Joseph was only 14 when god spoke to him but you can accept the Jesus story. As if it's any less silly.

 

[sealybobo]

You can't be an agnostic atheist.

I would say you are an agnostic secularist

• Atheist - There is no god.
• Nihilistic - Life has no meaning.
• Secular - Lack of religion.
• Agnostic - There may or may not be a god, but open to know more.
• Gnostic - Belief that the God (or gods) we worship are in fact evil tricksters and that a secret knowledge is preventing us from the true God.
• Animistic - Belief that all things contain spirits.
• Deist - There is a God who created life, but just watches and does not intervene.
• Theist - Belief in a higher power and at least one god.
• Polytheist - Belief in more than one god.
• Monotheist -believing in a single God - ie. Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
• Apostate - A person who leaves a religion.
• Misotheist - A person that hates God or the Gods.
• Dustheism - Belief that God or the Gods are not totally good.
• Macioism - Belief that God is a Demiurge and wrathful, malicious evil creator. Similar to Gnostic.
• Euthesim - Belief in a totally good God.

What do you mean life has meaning? What is the meaning? What is our purpose? I think we could master the universe if we weren’t so primitive. Still warring with each other rather than working as one planet to get to mars and mine the meteor belt. Then build a ship the size of a planet that can also survive interstellar travel. Then we might have a purpose.

If we stay on this Rock eventually we will die of some natural cause. The planet will still have other creatures who survive this mass global extinction but even they too will die when the water goes or the sun burns out. If we go with the planet, what was our purpose?

We are a way for the universe to know itself. Amazing.

There is no purpose to life.

And if the universe is trying to know itself through humans it could do better since we only have an understanding of about 5% of it.

Sure there is... to become the best version of yourself and to pass it on. There's your meaning.

Simply put, evolution is when anything moves from a less advanced state to a more advanced state; a less complex state to a more complex state. Since the beginning of time matter has evolved and will continue to do so. Your purpose, your meaning in life is to evolve in consciousness and pass it on to the next generation.

That's your meaning.

You have no business telling my what mine is.

According to you, you don’t have one, right?

But according to Darwin the meaning of life is to pass down functional advantage to the next generation.

No not really

I know that what I do here while I'm alive will have little effect in the grand scheme of things.

And again that's Darwin and he has no more right to tell me what my purpose is than you do.

The human race has been here for but a blink in cosmological time and less than a minute in the earth's geological time.

We will be gone in but another few blinks of time as far as the cosmos is concerned.

Nothing anyone has ever done or will ever do will matter.

Yep, you're a nihilist alright.

As i said.

You have a fatalistic attitude, my friend.

I know.

Better a realist than some naive idealistic Pollyanna

No. A realist isn't a fatalist. A realist does not believe that life is without meaning. A realists accepts situations as they are and deals with them. Whereas a fatalist believes nothing matters (i.e. life is without meaning).

realist: a person who accepts a situation as it is and is prepared to deal with it accordingly.

fatalist: a person who believes all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.

nihilist: a person who believes that life is meaningless.

Then christians are fatalists because aren't the end days predetermined? It's already been proficized right?

 

[sealybobo]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Most people in England may tick the Church of England/ Catholic box on the census, but its really just the club we where born into.
I think most people if pushed would declare themselves either agnostlc if not atheist.

Wholly believe in the christian teaching, but I go on quantum probability not relative certainty. The abrahamic concept of an omnipotent monolithic being as God in Judaism, Christianity & Islam I find totally improbable. Eastern polytheist religion particularly Taoism I find far more convincing.
I do not however go along with the so called evolutionists Universe by accident theory. Far too much evidence of intelligent design to my mind!

I believe that there is some form of intelligent energy I.E. that permeates the universe. In its perfect state in a zero size multidimensional pre big bang quantum state it is perfect. Post big bang to cover the trillions of square miles of relative space it is diluted down to a mathematical intelligence.
So God to my mind is a form of Intelligent Energy.

I'm open to all this. I love it! Great post. Quite possible.

We know so little. Consider a tardigrade. It can't see outside the drop of water it lives in. It can't see us even though we are giants living right above them. A whale can probably look up and see the stars but they will never look into a microscope and see the moon up close. We can sort of see other galaxies but not up close. Hell, we don't even know if there is life in Europa or if there is a 7th planet out past the meteor belt. It is so far out and so dark there it's hard for us to see it without having the sun as a backdrop.

So I won't pretend to know or say there is no god. I just don't see any evidence that makes me believe there is one. But maybe there is. I don't think it would punish me or care if I believe it exists. I don't even think it cares if you are good or bad. And I don't think that there is a paradise I live in for the rest of eternity just because I believe in it or because I'm a good person. I think that's all just human made up wishful thinking.

I'm open to much of it. Can't agree on the "intelligent design" stuff at all though. If one wants to simply equate nature or "Mother Nature" with being a god or gods, fine. Else we've got issues.

And even if there is something so much bigger than us and it created our universe, it too would be a natural thing. Like for example if our universe were just one of many universes inside someone's lava lamp. I can imagine that. It's so big and we are so small we can't even see all our universe is is one bubble in his lava lamp.

 

[Grumblenuts]

So now I know what some atheists believe about what Christians believe. As a Christian of the Catholic denomination, I can assure these atheists it is not what Christians believe. It is always good to be advised about what the uninformed are saying, even when there is nothing that can be done about it. Anyway, thank you.

I've been meaning to address that a bit as well. From the disingenuous learning to the horribly phony flourish of gratitude at end,.. a rare sampling of "Christian" "behavior," including shamelessly speaking for an ungodly # of others ("what Christians believe"),.. and that complete trashing of damned atheists thrown in for good measure. What's not to love?

 

[Grumblenuts]

I am totally open to the idea that god is real I just don’t believe any religions are real. I like debating with theists who agree religions are man made up. I agree the universe and this planet are amazing. And it seems like it’s too perfect and there has to be some higher power. But we know so little still. Maybe there are other universes? Maybe there was is or will be life around every star eventually. Maybe not as advance as us but maybe more. And maybe the spirit lives on forever after you die. Just seems like wishful thinking to me. But I hope so. These are unknowable things.

So far I see no evidence of god and I don’t believe one exists. Everything can be explained scientifically. What can’t, may never be known. Those gaps aren’t god.

Most people in England may tick the Church of England/ Catholic box on the census, but its really just the club we where born into.
I think most people if pushed would declare themselves either agnostlc if not atheist.

Wholly believe in the christian teaching, but I go on quantum probability not relative certainty. The abrahamic concept of an omnipotent monolithic being as God in Judaism, Christianity & Islam I find totally improbable. Eastern polytheist religion particularly Taoism I find far more convincing.
I do not however go along with the so called evolutionists Universe by accident theory. Far too much evidence of intelligent design to my mind!

I believe that there is some form of intelligent energy I.E. that permeates the universe. In its perfect state in a zero size multidimensional pre big bang quantum state it is perfect. Post big bang to cover the trillions of square miles of relative space it is diluted down to a mathematical intelligence.
So God to my mind is a form of Intelligent Energy.

I'm open to all this. I love it! Great post. Quite possible.

We know so little. Consider a tardigrade. It can't see outside the drop of water it lives in. It can't see us even though we are giants living right above them. A whale can probably look up and see the stars but they will never look into a microscope and see the moon up close. We can sort of see other galaxies but not up close. Hell, we don't even know if there is life in Europa or if there is a 7th planet out past the meteor belt. It is so far out and so dark there it's hard for us to see it without having the sun as a backdrop.

So I won't pretend to know or say there is no god. I just don't see any evidence that makes me believe there is one. But maybe there is. I don't think it would punish me or care if I believe it exists. I don't even think it cares if you are good or bad. And I don't think that there is a paradise I live in for the rest of eternity just because I believe in it or because I'm a good person. I think that's all just human made up wishful thinking.

I'm open to much of it. Can't agree on the "intelligent design" stuff at all though. If one wants to simply equate nature or "Mother Nature" with being a god or gods, fine. Else we've got issues.

And even if there is something so much bigger than us and it created our universe, it too would be a natural thing. Like for example if our universe were just one of many universes inside someone's lava lamp. I can imagine that. It's so big and we are so small we can't even see all our universe is is one bubble in his lava lamp.

her lava lamp.

 

[Meriweather]

OMGWTF!! It's unmistakably a combination of sorrow, disgust, fear, and concern.

You are correct. I have never seen such a thing take place. On the other hand, I have always lived in an entirely different faith community than the one(s) you appear to be familiar with.

There is a huge difference between no belief and belief, but a determined rejection of God/goodness because someone prefers to embrace evil. There may very well be (and probably are) evil atheists. I have just never met one.

 

[zaangalewa]

... I miss the days before Moses came down from the mountain and said he saw/talked to god. No he didn't.

Live in a house, a city, a state where everyone and everything remembers you continously to your own death. Build your tomb and the grave of the pharao. Discuss the whole day long about all kinds of gods and afterlife. Invest as much money as possible for your own death. ... And the archeologists of the future will be thankful.

 

[Meriweather]

Well I don't like it when Christians start using the bible as their proof.

Perhaps you have not noticed, but I do not submit the Bible as proof of anything. On the other hand, I am not about to claim an idea or teaching as my own, when I know full well that idea/teaching came from the Bible.

The Bible in not--and has never been considered by many of us--as a Book of Proofs. It is a library containing many books, all of which are considered inspired, but not proof. Any middle school student who pays attention in science can tell you why a book--any book--is not a proof. Middle school students can also identify that ideas, teachings, and philosophies are all outside the physical realm, so by definition cannot be used as proof.

 

[Meriweather]

You do realize that all the other Christian denominations think Catholicism is the worst right? There are even threads about it. Have you participated in those threads and seen what other Christians think of Catholics? It's not good.

They are usually funny, though, at least to some of us Catholics. Good for a chuckle because it immediately clear that they have no understanding of the teaching--although they are convinced theirs in the perfect understanding.

Such discussions (as we can see even in this one) it is comparable to someone who thinks they understand the rules of football insist the points are recorded by the number of pins knocked down when the Frisbee goes through the hoop. Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset.

 

[Meriweather]

But I also know that Catholics believe one day every other denomination will eventually join the catholic church because you guys believe you are the one true religion. The original.

First I have heard of this. Perhaps you can point me to the page in the Catechism that says this? Meanwhile, I can point you to the page where the Catholic Catechism makes the point that Jews, for one, have their own eternal Covenant with God. To me, it doesn't sound like we are expecting a faith unification anytime in the near future. It is true, we do extend ecumenical outreach to other Christian denominations. One such example is Pastors giving the homily at a neighboring church, or Christian churches joining together for vacation Bible school.

 

[Meriweather]

I like what the Mormons say about Catholics. God told Joseph Smith that the first Pope was Peter and he was good, but then he handed the power to the next pope who too was a good man. But throughout the years the church was corrupted and evil rich men started becoming the Pope. Long story short is you guys lost your moral authority and divine connection to god. It was lost somewhere between the first pope and the one you have now. So your church no longer has the approval of god. And God told Joseph Smith to start his own religion.

The history of the Popes is fascinating, and there are a good handful who seemed no good at all. More interesting, these terrible Popes were always followed by good, even exceptional ones.

 

[Grumblenuts]

A mathematical proof is an inferential argument for a mathematical statement, showing that the stated assumptions logically guarantee the conclusion.

Middle school stuff indeed.

Methods

• 3.1 Direct proof
• 3.2 Proof by mathematical induction
• 3.3 Proof by contraposition
• 3.4 Proof by contradiction
• 3.5 Proof by construction
• 3.6 Proof by exhaustion
• 3.7 Probabilistic proof
• 3.8 Combinatorial proof
• 3.9 Nonconstructive proof
• 3.10 Statistical proofs in pure mathematics
• 3.11 Computer-assisted proofs

Proof(truth)

Sorry, lots to study and learn there, I know. "Usually easier to bypass such a discussion because it takes too much time and effort to explain the entire game of football to someone with such a mindset." ..ahem, to such evident idiotic legends in their own minds

 

[Meriweather]

Funny you can't get over the fact Joseph was only 14 when god spoke to him but you can accept the Jesus story. As if it's any less silly.

I am continually astonished at how you change what I put down in writing. Both times I said the pages I scanned in The Book of Mormon struct me as something written by a fourteen year old boy.
I have no reason to disbelieve God spoke to Joseph Smith when he was fourteen. Of course, when I first paged through parts of the Book of Mormon, I knew nothing of this anyway. Speaking to God at 14, and my opinion of a book written at age 14, are two very different things. As far teenage writers go, I was more impressed by SE Hinton who wrote The Outsiders when she was in high school.

 

[Meriweather]

You know us Greek Orthodox used to be Catholics but then we branched off? Why do you think we left the Catholic Church?

Wording in the Creed, particularly the line of "Proceeds from the Father and the Son". There were other issues as well.