Ok- Time for the TRUTH about the Confederate Battle Flag

[bucs90]

Will left act in the same fashion and remove other flags from government buildings?

No...they only want offensive flags taken down. The rainbow flag flying on government grounds doesnt offend anyone. Well...other than Christians. But we dont matter.

 

[WinterBorn]

This is like telling people to stop disliking the nazi symbol because of its original creation.

No one cares, and no one cares what you think they should think.

Except the swastika is an American indian symbol.

Link?

I know the swastika is sacred in Hindu and other faiths, but I have never heard it is an American indian symbol.

 

[WinterBorn]

As a matter of fact....many Southern units of the military in WW1 and WW2 also took a Confederate BATTLE flag into Germany to war. To fight white Nazis.

Why? Poor Southern troops....going to war...for a cause rich people sold them on.



Now...obviously society and optics have changed.

I agree the flag needs to come off government property.

But please...at least know the truth.

in both the civil war and wwii, the "poor southern troops" fought for nationalism.

nationalism is not "rich people" tricking them.

disagreeing with the reasons for a war(s) is one thing.

not feeling the motive others might have for fighting is one thing.


but just because they had different reasons than you does not make them fools.

if the us troops, southern and norther alike did not feel nationalism, europe would have been conquered by either nazis or communists, and post wwii history would have been a lot, lot less pleasant for everyone in the world.

I agree. Troops have different motivations.

Just trying to clear a little fog the media is creating.

I 100% agree with lowering the flag for good.

Im just a history buff though and want to inform.

IMO lowering the flag for good will be a victory for bigotry.

lib regional bigotry.

everyone is allowed to celebrate their heritage except for american white people.

If you want to celebrate slavery and the nation founded to prevent slavery from being abolished, then by all means fly the flag on your own property.

But to fly the battle flag of a nation that only existed because they wanted to protect the institution of slavery is an affront to the descendent of every slave held. And an affront to the nation that went to war to bring those loser back into the fold.

 

[EverCurious]

Will left act in the same fashion and remove other flags from government buildings?

Just an FYI, that in Europe; more here - Photos The Rainbow Flag flies on Britain s government buildings Montreal Gazette

Alberta Canada flew the rainbow over their legislative building as well - Alberta cities province fly the Rainbow Flag for Sochi Olympics daveberta.ca - Alberta Politics


In the US we have the San Diego University raising the rainbow (not government building, but public so idk where it ends up on the spectrum of public opinion these days) - LGBT Flag Raising NewsCenter SDSU

And the POW-MIA flag over government buildings - POW-MIA flag is lofted over government buildings - Toledo Blade

 

[ClosedCaption]

I'm down with getting rid of this flag too

There couldnt be a more gay flag

 

[Pop23]

Obviously all the diverse unity in Charleston was unacceptable for libs...so they went 120 miles inland to find a target. Im a bit of a history buff. WW2 particularly. But living in Charleston theres so much from 1600-present. A bit of truth to clear some fog.

The Confederate Battle Flag was NOT the flag of the Confederacy.

Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It was a battle flag.

In the South...only 3% of whites owned slaves. Yet...hundreds of thousands of poor whites and non whites fought. Why? Well...that 3% owning slaves were the rich. And they also owned the newspapers (only media back then). So.....they controlled info. They brainwashed poor Southerners to think the Union troops were coming to steal land and resources and rape women. And General Sherman's "Total War" philosophy only helped fuel that.

Was the war about slavery? YES.
Did MOST Southern troops think that? NO.

It would be like sending todays military to fight a war to preserve Warren Buffetts mansion. They'd never do it....unless you tricked them into it.



So...they took up arms and fought. They THOUGHT the war was just....but were duped by rich men to fight for THEIR interests (sound familiar).


THE FLAG:

These Southern troops were poor and lacked equipment. Uniforms often included. So....there were many times that lines of Southern troops fired on each other from thick woods and swamps.

Friendly fire. So....to avoid that....a battle flag was used to identify Southern troops.

And THAT is what the flag means and represents to SOME....the noble poor Southern troops who THOUGHT they were defending a farm and family....but were being used by a wealthy slave owner based on false premises that were sold through newspapers.

Thats the truth. AND...its also true that racists have hijacked the flag and because of that...it cannot and should not be flown. Its no longer about the true meaning. Its the hijacked meaning.


But for those who dont get it...thats what the people who say they support the heritage of the flag are saying. Poor men who did NOT own slaves...being duped by the wealthy and sent to die. And that flag represented those men in battle. Thats all.

Then, by removing this flag, we also remove the facts of that flag, used at that time as 97% of the southern soldiers belief of what it was.

Interesting.

 

[EverCurious]

This is like telling people to stop disliking the nazi symbol because of its original creation.

No one cares, and no one cares what you think they should think.

Except the swastika is an American indian symbol.

Link?

I know the swastika is sacred in Hindu and other faiths, but I have never heard it is an American indian symbol.

Native American Symbol Whirling Log Swastika Native American Jewelry Tips

 

[protectionist]

Then no one will shed a tear when it is removed from public space.

I disagree. I think to a lot of people, the Confederate flag really means something positive, and they will feel some hurt to see it removed - especially just to pander to some pushy, black loudmouths (who don't even represent a majority of black people in America)

Interesting when we look at a respectable poll (Pew Research Center) of how Americans view the Confederate flag. Most Americans think nothing about it. And Blacks, whom the flag removers say they are so concerned about, show up in the poll as having only 41% having a negative view of the flag, as opposed to 55% who are not negative to it, and that 55% of blacks includes a 10% group, who view it with a POSITIVE reaction.

 

[WinterBorn]

Then no one will shed a tear when it is removed from public space.

I disagree. I think to a lot of people, the Confederate flag really means something positive, and they will feel some hurt to see it removed - especially just to pander to some pushy, black loudmouths (who don't even represent a majority of black people in America)

Interesting when we look at a respectable poll (Pew Research Center) of how Americans view the Confederate flag. Most Americans think nothing about it. And Blacks, whom the flag removers say they are so concerned about, show up in the poll as having only 41% having a negative view of the flag, as opposed to 55% who are not negative to it, and that 55% of blacks includes a 10% group, who view it with a POSITIVE reaction.

What is positive about the battle flag of a nation that only existed when at war with the US and that was formed to protect the institution of slavery?

 

[Stan Fan]

Brings up an interesting point. At military cemeteries the US flag is flown to show respect for the men who died to protect that flag. Should the confederate flag be flown where confederate soldiers are buried for the same purpose? They didn't fight for the US flag so flying it over their grave is kind of an insult. Think of a French flag flying over the graves of German WWII soldiers. Should a flag be flown for them at all since one could argue they were traitors?

I am taking no stand on the issues. I am just raising the question.

Interesting but I say no. They were fighting for what they thought was just to protect their homes and families.

The rich slave owners brajnwashed these troops. They truly thought the Northern army was an out of control rogue machine...like the Nazi army.

It wasnt of course. But you're a poor farmer in the South in 1861...where do you get ANY info? The newspaper. Which was owned...by the same 3% of wealthy men who owned all the slaves.

Ironically. ..that flag has as much to do with being used and lied to by the wealthy 3% as anything else.

I am still thinking about it, myself. I am torn between letting them fly the confederate flag over confederate graves or no flag at all. As for the capital in South Carolina, if it was within my power I would tell them that so long as they fly that flag they are identifying themselves as a foreign nation and I would treat them as such. Let's see how long they dig their heels in when their economy starts to go to shit because tourists need a passport to go there and their exportable goods all have to go through customs. They'll take it down in less than a week.

The traitorous cons aren't buried in US military graves. They languish in private burial sites paid for by who knows.

there are confederate soldiers buried at Arlington.

obama sent a wreath to their memorial on memorial day, as is traditional for us presidents.

That is correct. The Custis-Lee Mansion atop the high hill in Arlington, Virginia, was the home of Confederate General Robert E. Lee, his wife was a cousin of George Washington. That was before Virginia seceded and Lee turned down the opportunity to lead the Union Army against Virginia, and the other Southern states in rebellion against the Union. He didn't want to draw his sword against his home state. As the initial hostilities of the war unfolded, Arlington, just across the river from Washington, obviously could not be held by the state of Virginia. Troops were sent across the long bridge to take control of that city, some were killed in the rather small skirmish that ensued. Once General Lee went South to Richmond, to join the Confederacy, the United States government confiscated his home. From the initial small skirmish with some Southern soldiers it was decided to bury them on Arlington soil, for convenience sake. They were actually the first soldiers buried in what would become Arlington National Cemetery. The President traditionally places a flowered wreath on the Tomb Of The Unknown Soldier's in Arlington National Cemetery every Memorial Day, usually the only time he visits the cemetery during his term of office. I am not aware, however, of any President ever placing a wreath on those Confederate graves in Arlington, and the majority of the Southern soldiers killed at the Battle of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania, July 1-3, 1863, have been recovered, and reburied in Confederate cemeteries in Richmond - Raleigh, North Carolina, and Charleston, NC. Lincoln, in his Gettysburg Address was only speaking of the sacrifice of the dead Union soldiers there...........

 

[protectionist]

What is positive about the battle flag of a nation that only existed when at war with the US and that was formed to protect the institution of slavery?

Since you're Black, maybe you could tell me, since more Blacks view it positively than Whites do (10% to 8%)

Seriously though, your question sounds like it was neatly packaged, with a bow on top, by the race hustlers who are screaming about the Confederate flag displaying. You speak of it only in a negative sense, and wrongly define it as only existing in the 1860s, "to protect the institution of slavery" You present not the foggiest realization that this flag exists in 2015, and has all these decades, as one that represents something else entirely >> Southern cultural heritage (food, music, dancing, customs, language dialects, southern folklore & history)

This is all in addition to honor/tribute to all those Confederate soldiers who fought (hundreds of thousands died), and some of whom were black, and most of whom never even heard of slavery, and only fought because someone was invading their home turf.

Not too familiar with southern cultural heritage ? These might help >>

 

[BULLDOG]

A DEM Governor put the flag up in 1962.

SO?

 

[WinterBorn]

Then no one will shed a tear when it is removed from public space.

I disagree. I think to a lot of people, the Confederate flag really means something positive, and they will feel some hurt to see it removed - especially just to pander to some pushy, black loudmouths (who don't even represent a majority of black people in America)

Interesting when we look at a respectable poll (Pew Research Center) of how Americans view the Confederate flag. Most Americans think nothing about it. And Blacks, whom the flag removers say they are so concerned about, show up in the poll as having only 41% having a negative view of the flag, as opposed to 55% who are not negative to it, and that 55% of blacks includes a 10% group, who view it with a POSITIVE reaction.

What is positive about the battle flag of a nation that only existed when at war with the US and that was formed to protect the institution of slavery?

Since you're Black, maybe you could tell me, since more Blacks view it positively than Whites do (10% to 8%)

Since I'm black? Oh, I see. You have no answer so you decided to just babble. Got it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Obviously all the diverse unity in Charleston was unacceptable for libs...so they went 120 miles inland to find a target. Im a bit of a history buff. WW2 particularly. But living in Charleston theres so much from 1600-present. A bit of truth to clear some fog.

The Confederate Battle Flag was NOT the flag of the Confederacy.

Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It was a battle flag.

In the South...only 3% of whites owned slaves. Yet...hundreds of thousands of poor whites and non whites fought. Why? Well...that 3% owning slaves were the rich. And they also owned the newspapers (only media back then). So.....they controlled info. They brainwashed poor Southerners to think the Union troops were coming to steal land and resources and rape women. And General Sherman's "Total War" philosophy only helped fuel that.

Was the war about slavery? YES.
Did MOST Southern troops think that? NO.

It would be like sending todays military to fight a war to preserve Warren Buffetts mansion. They'd never do it....unless you tricked them into it.



So...they took up arms and fought. They THOUGHT the war was just....but were duped by rich men to fight for THEIR interests (sound familiar).


THE FLAG:

These Southern troops were poor and lacked equipment. Uniforms often included. So....there were many times that lines of Southern troops fired on each other from thick woods and swamps.

Friendly fire. So....to avoid that....a battle flag was used to identify Southern troops.

And THAT is what the flag means and represents to SOME....the noble poor Southern troops who THOUGHT they were defending a farm and family....but were being used by a wealthy slave owner based on false premises that were sold through newspapers.

Thats the truth. AND...its also true that racists have hijacked the flag and because of that...it cannot and should not be flown. Its no longer about the true meaning. Its the hijacked meaning.


But for those who dont get it...thats what the people who say they support the heritage of the flag are saying. Poor men who did NOT own slaves...being duped by the wealthy and sent to die. And that flag represented those men in battle. Thats all.

Wow gee thanks no one ever knew that. You're so smart.



Most of Hitler's soldiers didn't know the full extent of what they were fighting for either.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

As a matter of fact....many Southern units of the military in WW1 and WW2 also took a Confederate BATTLE flag into Germany to war. To fight white Nazis.

Why? Poor Southern troops....going to war...for a cause rich people sold them on.


Now...obviously society and optics have changed.

I agree the flag needs to come off government property.

But please...at least know the truth.

They were fighting Nazis in WW I ? Who knew. BTW, how many of those units had black soldiers in them?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Brings up an interesting point. At military cemeteries the US flag is flown to show respect for the men who died to protect that flag. Should the confederate flag be flown where confederate soldiers are buried for the same purpose? They didn't fight for the US flag so flying it over their grave is kind of an insult. Think of a French flag flying over the graves of German WWII soldiers. Should a flag be flown for them at all since one could argue they were traitors?

I am taking no stand on the issues. I am just raising the question.

Do they fly a Nazi flag over WW II cemetaries in Germany?

 

[protectionist]

Since I'm black? Oh, I see. You have no answer so you decided to just babble. Got it.

No answer ? 4 paragraphs + 2 videos is "no answer" ? Getting enough sleep, lately ?

 

[WinterBorn]

Since I'm black? Oh, I see. You have no answer so you decided to just babble. Got it.

No answer ? 4 paragraphs + 2 videos is "no answer" ? Getting enough sleep, lately ?

You may have posted answers, but it was not to my question.

Since I'm black? Oh, I see. You have no answer so you decided to just babble. Got it.

No answer ? 4 paragraphs + 2 videos is "no answer" ? Getting enough sleep, lately ?

First of all, when I replied to your post it was only the line about me being black and therefore I should answer it.

Second of all, southern culture existed before the secession, and still exists despite the defeat of the confederacy 150 years ago.

Third of all, the flag in question was the battle flag of a foreign nation that only existed while at war with the US. And it was formed and existed to preserve the institution of slavery and the subjugation of blacks.

 

[protectionist]

First of all, when I replied to your post it was only the line about me being black and therefore I should answer it.

Second of all, southern culture existed before the secession, and still exists despite the defeat of the confederacy 150 years ago.

Third of all, the flag in question was the battle flag of a foreign nation that only existed while at war with the US. And it was formed and existed to preserve the institution of slavery and the subjugation of blacks.

First of all, you're posting too quickly. Slow down.

Second of all, yes southern culture existed before the secession, and still exists. And the Confederate flag has come to represent that culture, but you can be sure your race hustler boys won't tell you that. Oh well, better late than never.

Third of all, as the Rock of WWE fame would say "IT DOESN'T MATTER" what it was formed for. what matter is what it represent NOW, which you and your loudmouths seem to be clueless on. And your definition of "foreign nation" is highly questionable. Many would say the 11 states of the Confederacy existed as part of the USA before the secession, and still exists that way.

I'm off the computer. Babble on, if you must.

 

[WinterBorn]

First of all, when I replied to your post it was only the line about me being black and therefore I should answer it.

Second of all, southern culture existed before the secession, and still exists despite the defeat of the confederacy 150 years ago.

Third of all, the flag in question was the battle flag of a foreign nation that only existed while at war with the US. And it was formed and existed to preserve the institution of slavery and the subjugation of blacks.

First of all, you're posting too quickly. Slow down.

Second of all, yes southern culture existed before the secession, and still exists. And the Confederate flag has come to represent that culture, but you can be sure your race hustler boys won't tell you that. Oh well, better late than never.

Third of all, as the Rock of WWE fame would say "IT DOESN'T MATTER" what it was formed for. what matter is what it represent NOW, which you and your loudmouths seem to be clueless on. And your definition of "foreign nation" is highly questionable. Many would say the 11 states of the Confederacy existed as part of the USA before the secession, and still exists that way.

I'm off the computer. Babble on, if you must.

I'm sorry if you can't keep up. I am actually working too, so I don't consider this too fast.

The confederacy seceded from the union and formed their own nation. That is factual.

I am a southerner. I understand southern culture. I am also a patriotic American who is glad the south lost the war. I also understand what the secession was about and why the war was fought. It was to protect the institution of slavery.