Obamacare: What happens when you can't afford to pay?

[Zander]

Way to go! You are the rare exception. A financially stable.....well-off even....Anerican adult who believes it is in his best interest to go without health insurance.

Usually, people who are that stupid are struggling financially.

Cross your fingers.

Stupidity? I've had health insurance for 30 years and have never used it beyond a few office visits once every few years.

Now, thanks to Obamacare, I won't have to worry about paying those pesky monthly premiums. The law requires insurance companies to sell to EVERYONE regardless of pre-existing conditions. If I get sick, I'll sign up then.

Thanks Obamacare!! You just saved me $12,000 a year!!

Yes. Stupidity. Shit happens. Sometimes very swiftly. I hope you don't regret your decision.

Thanks for your concern. But, how could I regret it? If I get sick I will sign up for Obamacare (and cancel immediately after I am no longer sick!). It's a very short form that even a terminally ill person could fill out in a few minutes......https://www.coveredca.com/

 

[Zander]

We stopped paying our health insurance premiums a few weeks ago. The math just doesn't add up for us.

The premium jumped from $415.00/ month to $1085.00 for less coverage and a higher deductible. The "silver" plan was over $1200 a month....

We can easily afford the premiums, but it is a waste of money for a healthy couple who visits the doctor maybe once every 2-3 years. We've decided to pay cash for any healthcare services we need, and invest the difference. In 5 years we'll have saved over $60,000 assuming we make ZERO return.

If one of us gets really ill, we'll sign up then. Thanks to the stupidity of the law, they'll have to take us.

As for the "penalty", the law is riddled with exemptions and loopholes. If you get a "stop service" notice from a Utility company- you are exempt from the penalty for that year. Guess what? I forgot to pay the water bill this month. I wonder if they'll send a notice?

Uhhh...that's not how it works!

Let's say 5 years go by and you invest wisely and have $70,000 squirreled away for medical expenses. It's now March 2019. You (or your wife, sorry not sure of your gender) feels a suspicious lump. You go and get it checked out (happily paying the doctor's fees and lab work out of your $70k, that's why it's there right?).

Sadly it turns out to be breast cancer. But, you caught it early and prognosis is good with aggressive treatment, as long as you start right away. It's now April 2019. Since you have no insurance you ask upfront what treatment will cost. Radiation, Chemo, breast removal and reconstruction, etc. etc. will cost you $200k.

So you think "ok, wow! That's $130k more than what we have...hmmm. Well, we'll just sign up on the ACA website and that will be covered no problem. They HAVE to take us!".

Problem is...open enrollment for 2019 ended on Dec. 31, 2018. You can't sign up until Oct. 1, 2019 for coverage starting Jan. 1, 2020. Since insurance won't cover bills retroactively, you will either need to wait to begin treatment until Jan. 1, 2020, risking the cancer spreading and in turn risking your life. Or you hope the hospital will treat you immediately without insurance (not a guarantee, they only HAVE to treat you if your life is in immediate danger) and then you can hope they can help you with a payment plan, get charity to cover some of it, or if all else fails, file bankruptcy.

The "I'll sign up only if and when I get sick" plan is a great way to wind up dead or bankrupt.

So what? Life is full of risk. You could die crossing the street.

But let's assume your scenario happens. We can fly to Mexico, Costa Rica, or any of dozens of other countries that have excellent medical facilities and doctors. We would receive the medical treatment needed at a fraction of the inflated US cost.

then a few months later (assuming we still wanted to live in the US) , we could sign up for Obamacare.

Either way, we're WAY ahead of the game.

THANKS OBAMACARE!!

PS- Here is an article about "medical tourism" in Costa Rica

 

[LoneLaugher]

Stupidity? I've had health insurance for 30 years and have never used it beyond a few office visits once every few years.

Now, thanks to Obamacare, I won't have to worry about paying those pesky monthly premiums. The law requires insurance companies to sell to EVERYONE regardless of pre-existing conditions. If I get sick, I'll sign up then.

Thanks Obamacare!! You just saved me $12,000 a year!!

Yes. Stupidity. Shit happens. Sometimes very swiftly. I hope you don't regret your decision.

Thanks for your concern. But, how could I regret it? If I get sick I will sign up for Obamacare (and cancel immediately after I am no longer sick!). It's a very short form that even a terminally ill person could fill out in a few minutes......https://www.coveredca.com/

If you have the income you claim.....it is proof that opportunity exists for idiots in this nation. Congratulations.

 

[Bombur]

I am sorry applying for Medicaid is hard for you. It should be easy and I don't think government does enough to make it easy. No matter how easy or difficult it is there is no getting around the need for income verification. Something you seemingly refused to do. Income verification should be easier too.

Did you even bother to read what you were responding to? I wasn't actually trying to apply for Medicaid. I was trying to determine how someone would go about the process, and what the qualifications would be for a person to receive Medicaid.

Either you're too stupid to grasp the most relevant part of my entire post, or you are purposely ignoring it because it's inconvenient for you. So here, allow me to emphasize it:

The only people who qualify for "expanded" Medicaid under Obamacare are people who are already on food stamps or some other welfare benefit. Despite people like yourself assuming that Obamacare helps the poor through "expanded" Medicaid and/or subsidized premiums, it in fact does not.

The ACA doesn't have that requirement and I highly doubt your state does either.

I am sorry that applying for benefits was hard.

 

[Darkwind]

Premiums cannot exceed 9.5% of income.

You call that affordable?

Let's take someone making $9/hr, single and no dependents

$9 * 2080 hrs = $18,720 yearly income.

18,720 * .85 = $15,912 est. after tax income

$15,912 / 12 = $1326 monthly after tax income


Rent -- $500
Utilities -- $100
Food -- $200
Phone -- $50
Misc toiletries -- $50
Car Ins -- $50
Gas -- $200
Obamacare -- $148

Total monthly expenses = $1298
Total monthly useable income = $28

Are you suggesting that these people should remain uninsured?

I'm not suggesting that anyone should do anything, and the question does not address the point. Obamacare is an assault on the poor and low income people in our country.

That person would get a subsidy and help with paying the out if pocket expenses.

Are you of the opinion that it us better to remain uninsured?


By the way....you make a good argument for raising the minimum wage.

Pay attention people.

That is YOU and ME paying for this persons healthcare insurance. Not their health care. But their insurance.

This is called 'redistribution'.

 

[Zander]

Way to go! You are the rare exception. A financially stable.....well-off even....Anerican adult who believes it is in his best interest to go without health insurance.

Usually, people who are that stupid are struggling financially.

Cross your fingers.

Stupidity? I've had health insurance for 30 years and have never used it beyond a few office visits once every few years.

Now, thanks to Obamacare, I won't have to worry about paying those pesky monthly premiums. The law requires insurance companies to sell to EVERYONE regardless of pre-existing conditions. If I get sick, I'll sign up then.

Thanks Obamacare!! You just saved me $12,000 a year!!

No you won't. Unless you plan on only getting sick during open enrollment periods.

What are you going to, live in a bubble for 11 months per year?

I have means.

Worst case, I can travel to other countries for medical care at an 80% discount.

Or I can pay $1,285 a month?? for a plan that has huge deductible and co-pays? What am I getting for my money? Not enough.

No thanks bub....

 

[RDD_1210]

We stopped paying our health insurance premiums a few weeks ago. The math just doesn't add up for us.

The premium jumped from $415.00/ month to $1085.00 for less coverage and a higher deductible. The "silver" plan was over $1200 a month....

We can easily afford the premiums, but it is a waste of money for a healthy couple who visits the doctor maybe once every 2-3 years. We've decided to pay cash for any healthcare services we need, and invest the difference. In 5 years we'll have saved over $60,000 assuming we make ZERO return.

If one of us gets really ill, we'll sign up then. Thanks to the stupidity of the law, they'll have to take us.

As for the "penalty", the law is riddled with exemptions and loopholes. If you get a "stop service" notice from a Utility company- you are exempt from the penalty for that year. Guess what? I forgot to pay the water bill this month. I wonder if they'll send a notice?

Uhhh...that's not how it works!

Let's say 5 years go by and you invest wisely and have $70,000 squirreled away for medical expenses. It's now March 2019. You (or your wife, sorry not sure of your gender) feels a suspicious lump. You go and get it checked out (happily paying the doctor's fees and lab work out of your $70k, that's why it's there right?).

Sadly it turns out to be breast cancer. But, you caught it early and prognosis is good with aggressive treatment, as long as you start right away. It's now April 2019. Since you have no insurance you ask upfront what treatment will cost. Radiation, Chemo, breast removal and reconstruction, etc. etc. will cost you $200k.

So you think "ok, wow! That's $130k more than what we have...hmmm. Well, we'll just sign up on the ACA website and that will be covered no problem. They HAVE to take us!".

Problem is...open enrollment for 2019 ended on Dec. 31, 2018. You can't sign up until Oct. 1, 2019 for coverage starting Jan. 1, 2020. Since insurance won't cover bills retroactively, you will either need to wait to begin treatment until Jan. 1, 2020, risking the cancer spreading and in turn risking your life. Or you hope the hospital will treat you immediately without insurance (not a guarantee, they only HAVE to treat you if your life is in immediate danger) and then you can hope they can help you with a payment plan, get charity to cover some of it, or if all else fails, file bankruptcy.

The "I'll sign up only if and when I get sick" plan is a great way to wind up dead or bankrupt.

So what? Life is full of risk. You could die crossing the street.

But let's assume your scenario happens. We can fly to Mexico, Costa Rica, or any of dozens of other countries that have excellent medical facilities and doctors. We would receive the medical treatment needed at a fraction of the inflated US cost.

then a few months later (assuming we still wanted to live in the US) , we could sign up for Obamacare.

Either way, we're WAY ahead of the game.

THANKS OBAMACARE!!

PS- Here is an article about "medical tourism" in Costa Rica

You going to "Fly to mexico" when you get in to a car accident? "Nah, I don't need an ambulance....get me on a plane!"

Do you actually think any of this shit through before you say it?

 

[RDD_1210]

You call that affordable?

Let's take someone making $9/hr, single and no dependents

$9 * 2080 hrs = $18,720 yearly income.

18,720 * .85 = $15,912 est. after tax income

$15,912 / 12 = $1326 monthly after tax income


Rent -- $500
Utilities -- $100
Food -- $200
Phone -- $50
Misc toiletries -- $50
Car Ins -- $50
Gas -- $200
Obamacare -- $148

Total monthly expenses = $1298
Total monthly useable income = $28

I'm not suggesting that anyone should do anything, and the question does not address the point. Obamacare is an assault on the poor and low income people in our country.

That person would get a subsidy and help with paying the out if pocket expenses.

Are you of the opinion that it us better to remain uninsured?


By the way....you make a good argument for raising the minimum wage.

Pay attention people.

That is YOU and ME paying for this persons healthcare insurance. Not their health care. But their insurance.

This is called 'redistribution'.

Who do you think paid for it before when that person went to an ER instead?

 

[RDD_1210]

Stupidity? I've had health insurance for 30 years and have never used it beyond a few office visits once every few years.

Now, thanks to Obamacare, I won't have to worry about paying those pesky monthly premiums. The law requires insurance companies to sell to EVERYONE regardless of pre-existing conditions. If I get sick, I'll sign up then.

Thanks Obamacare!! You just saved me $12,000 a year!!

No you won't. Unless you plan on only getting sick during open enrollment periods.

What are you going to, live in a bubble for 11 months per year?

I have means.

Worst case, I can travel to other countries for medical care at an 80% discount.

Or I can pay $1,285 a month?? for a plan that has huge deductible and co-pays? What am I getting for my money? Not enough.

No thanks bub....

So you're not happy because you're not getting sick and getting to use your insurance and "getting value for what you pay for"? Plenty of cancer patients would love to trade spots with you and the "problems" you have.

Sounds like you don't like the idea of insurance. Maybe you should lobby against the insurance industry which adds little but inflated costs in to the healthcare equation.

 

[Zander]

Uhhh...that's not how it works!

Let's say 5 years go by and you invest wisely and have $70,000 squirreled away for medical expenses. It's now March 2019. You (or your wife, sorry not sure of your gender) feels a suspicious lump. You go and get it checked out (happily paying the doctor's fees and lab work out of your $70k, that's why it's there right?).

Sadly it turns out to be breast cancer. But, you caught it early and prognosis is good with aggressive treatment, as long as you start right away. It's now April 2019. Since you have no insurance you ask upfront what treatment will cost. Radiation, Chemo, breast removal and reconstruction, etc. etc. will cost you $200k.

So you think "ok, wow! That's $130k more than what we have...hmmm. Well, we'll just sign up on the ACA website and that will be covered no problem. They HAVE to take us!".

Problem is...open enrollment for 2019 ended on Dec. 31, 2018. You can't sign up until Oct. 1, 2019 for coverage starting Jan. 1, 2020. Since insurance won't cover bills retroactively, you will either need to wait to begin treatment until Jan. 1, 2020, risking the cancer spreading and in turn risking your life. Or you hope the hospital will treat you immediately without insurance (not a guarantee, they only HAVE to treat you if your life is in immediate danger) and then you can hope they can help you with a payment plan, get charity to cover some of it, or if all else fails, file bankruptcy.

The "I'll sign up only if and when I get sick" plan is a great way to wind up dead or bankrupt.

So what? Life is full of risk. You could die crossing the street.

But let's assume your scenario happens. We can fly to Mexico, Costa Rica, or any of dozens of other countries that have excellent medical facilities and doctors. We would receive the medical treatment needed at a fraction of the inflated US cost.

then a few months later (assuming we still wanted to live in the US) , we could sign up for Obamacare.

Either way, we're WAY ahead of the game.

THANKS OBAMACARE!!

PS- Here is an article about "medical tourism" in Costa Rica

You going to "Fly to mexico" when you get in to a car accident? "Nah, I don't need an ambulance....get me on a plane!"

Do you actually think any of this shit through before you say it?

Car accident? BFD. We'll dip into our savings. We're willing to "self insure'. Why does that scare you?

 

[Zander]

No you won't. Unless you plan on only getting sick during open enrollment periods.

What are you going to, live in a bubble for 11 months per year?

I have means.

Worst case, I can travel to other countries for medical care at an 80% discount.

Or I can pay $1,285 a month?? for a plan that has huge deductible and co-pays? What am I getting for my money? Not enough.

No thanks bub....

So you're not happy because you're not getting sick and getting to use your insurance and "getting value for what you pay for"? Plenty of cancer patients would love to trade spots with you and the "problems" you have.

Sounds like you don't like the idea of insurance. Maybe you should lobby against the insurance industry which adds little but inflated costs in to the healthcare equation.

Sorry, but I am not a "cancer patient". If I were, I'd sign up for Obamacare.

BTW, I was perfectly happy paying $415 per month for a policy that fit my families needs. But the well intentioned Democrats who passed this clusterfuck of law decided that they know what is best for me. They decided that they are more qualified to make decisions about my life than me. Then they decided that my policy was "not good enough". They decided that my wife , who no longer can conceive, needed pregnancy coverage, and assorted other stupid silliness. They decided. So I decided too. At $1085 per month, health insurance no longer makes sense.

That is MY decision. We'll live with the consequences,and benefits.

 

[The T]

So what? Life is full of risk. You could die crossing the street.

But let's assume your scenario happens. We can fly to Mexico, Costa Rica, or any of dozens of other countries that have excellent medical facilities and doctors. We would receive the medical treatment needed at a fraction of the inflated US cost.

then a few months later (assuming we still wanted to live in the US) , we could sign up for Obamacare.

Either way, we're WAY ahead of the game.

THANKS OBAMACARE!!

PS- Here is an article about "medical tourism" in Costa Rica

You going to "Fly to mexico" when you get in to a car accident? "Nah, I don't need an ambulance....get me on a plane!"

Do you actually think any of this shit through before you say it?

Car accident? BFD. We'll dip into our savings. We're willing to "self insure'. Why does that scare you?

Because his mommy Government has to give you permission. Self responsibility scares the shit out of Statists.

 

[william the wie]

The T, Zander stop smartening up chumps. Cost containment goals of ACA is to reduce medical costs rapidly by 25-50%. Figuring in the narrow networks of the exchanges and uneconomically low reimbursement rates this trainwreck is going to remove 4-12% of GDP from one of the highest multiple sectors of the economy. Yeah it will be made a deadletter quick but PM me about how to set up a positive carry short hedge for however long the good times roll. The waiting line deathrates we'll see are regrettable in the extreme but no one you are trying to persuade will pay attention to that until the deaths are 6-7 figures.

 

[The T]

The T, Zander stop smartening up chumps. Cost containment goals of ACA is to reduce medical costs rapidly by 25-50%. Figuring in the narrow networks of the exchanges and uneconomically low reimbursement rates this trainwreck is going to remove 4-12% of GDP from one of the highest multiple sectors of the economy. Yeah it will be made a deadletter quick but PM me about how to set up a positive carry short hedge for however long the good times roll. The waiting line deathrates we'll see are regrettable in the extreme but no one you are trying to persuade will pay attention to that until the deaths are 6-7 figures.

Yeah, Republicans will get the blame, right?

 

[Darkwind]

That person would get a subsidy and help with paying the out if pocket expenses.

Are you of the opinion that it us better to remain uninsured?


By the way....you make a good argument for raising the minimum wage.

Pay attention people.

That is YOU and ME paying for this persons healthcare insurance. Not their health care. But their insurance.

This is called 'redistribution'.

Who do you think paid for it before when that person went to an ER instead?

Who do you think is paying for it still? And at an added cost and burden to Me and everyone else who was paying before.

Now we get to pay more than double for the insurance for ourselves, the insurance for others, AND WE GET TO CONTINUE TO PAY FOR THE EMERGENCY ROOM EXPENDITURES.

Yeah, you ******* fixed it alright.

I can't believe how ******* stupid you are defending this shit.

 

[william the wie]

The T, Zander stop smartening up chumps. Cost containment goals of ACA is to reduce medical costs rapidly by 25-50%. Figuring in the narrow networks of the exchanges and uneconomically low reimbursement rates this trainwreck is going to remove 4-12% of GDP from one of the highest multiple sectors of the economy. Yeah it will be made a deadletter quick but PM me about how to set up a positive carry short hedge for however long the good times roll. The waiting line deathrates we'll see are regrettable in the extreme but no one you are trying to persuade will pay attention to that until the deaths are 6-7 figures.

Yeah, Republicans will get the blame, right?

The people you are trying to persuade will blame the Rs. But right now the Rs are winning races they are barely competing in.

 

[syrenn]

Premiums cannot exceed 9.5% of income.

Are you suggesting that these people should remain uninsured?

prior to the ACA, they had healthcare available to them at the ER and other emergency clinics....at no cost to them.

We, the tax payer was fine with the cost to the taxpayer.

So enough with the "remain uninsured" crap. They may have not had insurance, but we, as a society made sure they had healthcare.

Do you disagree with this?

And do you think using the ER is a more cost effective manner than having health insurance to begin with?

Do you think the ER can provide a full range of healthcare services that someone with insurance can access? (ie. Can you get your chemo therapy treatment at an ER?)

ER's should be triaging people and sending those who are not emergencies or people just there for day to day things away. Pretty simple concept.

 

[Agit8r]

I wonder if the calculations in the early part of this thread accounted for the tax credits?

5 Ways Health Care Reform Will Impact Your Finances and Taxes - My Money (usnews.com)

Subsidy Calculator | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation[0][age]=21&adults[0][tobacco]=0&child-count=0&child-tobacco=0

The Premium Tax Credit

 

[PoliticalChic]

Like it or not, I'm inclined to agree that we're going to be screwed until we either get better people in office (not likely) or things get so bad that people take to the streets in revolution.

“I do not believe that the solution to our problem is simply to elect the right people. The important thing is to establish a political climate of opinion which will make it politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing. Unless it is politically profitable for the wrong people to do the right thing, the right people will not do the right thing either, or if they try, they will shortly be out of office.”
Milton Friedman

 

[PoliticalChic]

prior to the ACA, they had healthcare available to them at the ER and other emergency clinics....at no cost to them.

We, the tax payer was fine with the cost to the taxpayer.

So enough with the "remain uninsured" crap. They may have not had insurance, but we, as a society made sure they had healthcare.

Do you disagree with this?

And do you think using the ER is a more cost effective manner than having health insurance to begin with?

Do you think the ER can provide a full range of healthcare services that someone with insurance can access? (ie. Can you get your chemo therapy treatment at an ER?)

ER's should be triaging people and sending those who are not emergencies or people just there for day to day things away. Pretty simple concept.

Seems that isn't about to happen.


"More people are seeking care in hospital emergency rooms, and the cost of caring for ER patients has soared 17 percent over two years, despite efforts to direct patients with nonurgent problems to primary care doctors instead, according to new state data."
ER visits, costs in Mass. climb - The Boston Globe
ER visits, costs in Mass. climb - The Boston Globe