Obama says Minutemen are "self-proclaimed vigilantes"

[Little-Acorn]

Gotta love this. A while back, President Bush referred to the Minutemen and other border-watch groups concerned about border security, as "vigilantes". The Minutemen protested loud and long, pointing out that vigilantes take the law into their own hands, arresting people, detaining them, injuring and killing them... which the Minutemen don't do. We merely watch the border and call the cops when we see something, then go back to watching.

Now Obama repeates the same lie about us, but throws in an extra little fillip: He says that WE are the one who say we are vigilantes!

I guess if you're not interested in telling the truth, then telling two lies is no worse than telling one. Very twisted "logic", but this is a card-carrying liberal we're talking about here. I guess we can expect no better.

He also announces later that we are calling the "path to citizenship" part of the immigration bill, with all its fines etc., to be "amnesty".

Wrong again, as he probably knows. We don't call the Path To Citizenship amnesty. We call the automatic issuance of "Z" visas an amnesty. These Z visas grant immediate, unconditions permission fro all illegals to stay in this country, with no fines or other requirements,. That, exactly, is amnesty.

Obama is clearly not trying to tell his constituents the truth. Instead, he is carefully crafting lies to inflame people in the direction he wants to go. It's an act that would make Josef Goebbels proud.

Obama should ask himself what it says about his agenda, that he has to lie to make it look good.

And if Obama won't ask himself that, WE should ask him.

-----------------------------------------

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/views/orl-obama2807jun28,0,1152271.story

by U.S. Sen. Barack Obama
June 28 , 2007

I often talk about the smallness of our politics -- our inability to move beyond the pettiness that gives too loud a voice to those who are already yelling and too little to those who are working to find common-sense solutions to our challenges.

It's not an abstract concept. So much of our immigration debate has taken this tone, but we have finally arrived at a point where real progress is possible.

Immigration is certainly a difficult issue. When we first tried to fix the system last year, it was a time when hundreds of thousands of immigrants were protesting in the streets, while self-proclaimed vigilantes known as the Minutemen were rushing to defend our Southern border. In Congress, a good-faith attempt at reform that I helped construct passed the Senate but ultimately failed in the heat of election-year politics.

This week, we have a second chance to act. The passions remain, but so does the problem. More than 2,000 immigrants now cross our borders illegally every day. Twelve million undocumented are already here, most who work in our communities and pay their taxes.

There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the debate. I have met countless Americans who are worried about the constant flow of illegal immigrants not because they are racists or xenophobes, but because they fear that this influx of low-skill workers threatens to depress wages that are already too low. They also rightfully expect their government to control our borders.

At the same time, it is both unproductive and untrue to tag as "amnesty" any proposal that would put the undocumented on a path to earned citizenship, since the bill we're debating would penalize those who broke our laws with steep fines and require them to start their quest for citizenship at the back of the line .

(Emphasis mine. Full text of the article can be read at the above URL. - LA)

 

[actsnoblemartin]

i will NEVER vote for obama, because he tried to kill the employment verification part of the bill. and that shows, he is beholdent to la raza, f** you obama

remember vigilantes take the law into their own hands, even when the police enforce the law, while the minutemen enforce the law, because the u.s. government wont take the law into its own hands, big differents.

Bush = moron.

Gotta love this. A while back, President Bush referred to the Minutemen and other border-watch groups concerned about border security, as "vigilantes". The Minutemen protested loud and long, pointing out that vigilantes take the law into their own hands, arresting people, detaining them, injuring and klilling them... which the Minutemen don't do. We merely watch the border and call the cops when we see something, then go back to watching.

Now Obama repeates the same lie about us, but throws in an extra little fillip: He says that WE are the one who say we are vigilantes!

I guess if you're not interested in telling the truth, then telling two lies is no worse than telling one. Very twisted "logic", but this is a card-carrying liberal we're talking about here. I guess we can expect no better.

He also announces later that we are calling the "path to citizenship" part of the immigration bill, with all its fines etc., to be "amnesty".

Wrong again, as he probably knows. We don't call the Path To Citizenship amnesty. We call the automatic issuance of "Z" visas an amnesty. These Z visas grant immediate, unconditions permission fro all illegals to stay in this country, with no fines or other requirements,. That, exactly, is amnesty.

Obama is clearly not trying to tell his constituents the truth. Instead, he is carefully crafting lies to inflame people in the direction he wants to go. It's an act that would make Josef Goebbels proud.

Obama should ask himself what it says about his agenda, that he has to lie to make it look good.

And if Obama won't ask himself that, WE should ask him.

-----------------------------------------

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/opinion/views/orl-obama2807jun28,0,1152271.story

by U.S. Sen. Barack Obama
June 28 , 2007

I often talk about the smallness of our politics -- our inability to move beyond the pettiness that gives too loud a voice to those who are already yelling and too little to those who are working to find common-sense solutions to our challenges.

It's not an abstract concept. So much of our immigration debate has taken this tone, but we have finally arrived at a point where real progress is possible.

Immigration is certainly a difficult issue. When we first tried to fix the system last year, it was a time when hundreds of thousands of immigrants were protesting in the streets, while self-proclaimed vigilantes known as the Minutemen were rushing to defend our Southern border. In Congress, a good-faith attempt at reform that I helped construct passed the Senate but ultimately failed in the heat of election-year politics.

This week, we have a second chance to act. The passions remain, but so does the problem. More than 2,000 immigrants now cross our borders illegally every day. Twelve million undocumented are already here, most who work in our communities and pay their taxes.

There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the debate. I have met countless Americans who are worried about the constant flow of illegal immigrants not because they are racists or xenophobes, but because they fear that this influx of low-skill workers threatens to depress wages that are already too low. They also rightfully expect their government to control our borders.

At the same time, it is both unproductive and untrue to tag as "amnesty" any proposal that would put the undocumented on a path to earned citizenship, since the bill we're debating would penalize those who broke our laws with steep fines and require them to start their quest for citizenship at the back of the line .

(Emphasis mine. Full text of the article can be read at the above URL. - LA)

 

[Vintij]

LittleAcorn, Sounds to me like your further inticing and dividing the already huge gap between democrats and republicans who live in the same country and follow the same laws. Both sides are guilty of this, but attacking eachother is not going to close the gap of partisanship.

I wonder when people will realize that the two party system only works when the two partys actually work together. Unlike the present day, when nothing gets done....aside from a landslide vote to increase senators salary by 4,000 $ a year.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

such great wisdom sir, you are completely right.

LittleAcorn, Sounds to me like your further inticing and dividing the already huge gap between democrats and republicans who live in the same country and follow the same laws. Both sides are guilty of this, but attacking eachother is not going to close the gap of partisanship.

I wonder when people will realize that the two party system only works when the two partys actually work together. Unlike the present day, when nothing gets done....aside from a landslide vote to increase senators salary by 4,000 $ a year.

 

[Little-Acorn]

LittleAcorn, Sounds to me like your further inticing and dividing the already huge gap between democrats and republicans

What part of my post made you think that? The part where I pointed out that Bush and Obama have told the same lie?

Perhaps you need to worrry more about what Obama said, than about me pointing out what he said. Obama is a high elected official with the authority to help make laws binding on all of us... and he is telling lies and misrepresenting valid issues that others described accurately, while trying to get people to vote him into even higher office. Doesn't that bother you?

Don't worrry about me. I'll take care of Little-Acorn and his posts. I'm not the one lying and misrepresenting my agenda, after all. For one thing, I don't need to.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

Let me clarify, in general both parties need to work together, but in this instance, I find NOTHING wrong with this post.

What part of my post made you think that? The part where I pointed out that Bush and Obama have told the same lie?

Perhaps you need to worrry more about what Obama said, than about me pointing out what he said. Obama is a high elected official with the authority to help make laws binding on all of us... and he is telling lies and misrepresenting valid issues that others described accurately, while trying to get people to vote him into even higher office. Doesn't that bother you?

Don't worrry about me. I'll take care of Little-Acorn and his posts. I'm not the one lying and misrepresenting my agenda, after all. For one thing, I don't need to.

 

[Vintij]

What part of my post made you think that? The part where I pointed out that Bush and Obama have told the same lie?

Perhaps you need to worrry more about what Obama said, than about me pointing out what he said. Obama is a high elected official with the authority to help make laws binding on all of us... and he is telling lies and misrepresenting valid issues that others described accurately, while trying to get people to vote him into even higher office. Doesn't that bother you?

Don't worrry about me. I'll take care of Little-Acorn and his posts. I'm not the one lying and misrepresenting my agenda, after all. For one thing, I don't need to.

Your right, lies are flooding in from both fronts. An election year is coming up, so expect more of it. Infact before BUSH was elected, his top priority was immigration. Now 7 years later, nothing has changed.


My point is, if either party gave a crap about working together as delegates of a united government, we wouldnt need "minute men" in the first place because immigration would have been taken care of. Why should regular civilians guard the boarder when its not their job?

Congress can agree on a 4,000 dollar pay raise but they cant agree on immigration reform or boarder security?

 

[actsnoblemartin]

You are completely right. I always respect your opinion, because you come at it with logic and reason, and that the mark of a true intellectual. Bush gets an F, of immigration, both parties get an F, on working together. And, nobody deserves a raise.

Excellent commentary in this thread.

Your right, lies are flooding in from both fronts. An election year is coming up, so expect more of it. Infact before BUSH was elected, his top priority was immigration. Now 7 years later, nothing has changed.


My point is, if either party gave a crap about working together as delegates of a united government, we wouldnt need "minute men" in the first place because immigration would have been taken care of. Why should regular civilians guard the boarder when its not their job?

Congress can agree on a 4,000 dollar pay raise but they cant agree on immigration reform or boarder security?

 

[hjmick]

You noticed the pay raise is back too, Vintij. Disgusting, isn't it? I'd be happy if I earned close to $165,000 for going to the office 200 days a year, wouldn't need a raise to almost $170,000.

 

[actsnoblemartin]

me too. Those poor, tired, over-worked senators and congress people.

You noticed the pay raise is back too, Vintij. Disgusting, isn't it? I'd be happy if I earned close to $165,000 for going to the office 200 days a year, wouldn't need a raise to almost $170,000.