Obama Banning Bullets In ATF Regulation

[M14 Shooter]

Is the core constructed of steel? Yes. It is AP.
Here is teh ATF's own proposal and analysis.df

The law says "constructed entirely"
It isn't.
Nothing the BATFE can say will ever change that.
Not AP.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

From ar15.com "Best Rounds for Self-Defense"

".223 While the M855-type ammunition generally meets performance requirements, there have been quite a few reports in inadequate fragmentation. Please remember that this is military ammo, and while the fragmenting properties are well documented and understood, there is no requirement for the bullet to fragment when being tested for acceptance. There can be significant variations in constructions which could make some lots perform much worse than others. For this reason, it is not on the list. While the M193-type ammo is not nearly as complicated of a design, it is also not inherently as devastating as the heavier OTMs listed below. Since this article is about the BEST choices for self-defense ammunition, it is omitted also."
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Wah wah Not even a "best choice for defense" round.

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

 

[Dan Daly]

There's no animal in North America you need AP rounds for. They're cop-killer rounds pure and simple.

Really? No bad guy has ever worn armor? My 5.56 magazine has armor piercing rounds for that reason. I don't think I'll need them for cops.

You're not helping your side you realize. You just admitted you want them for people not hunting.

what, specifically, is wrong with that?

Riddle me this...what is the bigger threat to your life in Missouri? People, bears or deer?

 

[Dan Daly]

From ar15.com "Best Rounds for Self-Defense"

".223 While the M855-type ammunition generally meets performance requirements, there have been quite a few reports in inadequate fragmentation. Please remember that this is military ammo, and while the fragmenting properties are well documented and understood, there is no requirement for the bullet to fragment when being tested for acceptance. There can be significant variations in constructions which could make some lots perform much worse than others. For this reason, it is not on the list. While the M193-type ammo is not nearly as complicated of a design, it is also not inherently as devastating as the heavier OTMs listed below. Since this article is about the BEST choices for self-defense ammunition, it is omitted also."
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Wah wah Not even a "best choice for defense" round.

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

So you wouldn't mind taking a magazine full of .22 to the head and body...since it's so useless for defense, right?

 

[The Rabbi]

Is the core constructed of steel? Yes. It is AP.
Here is teh ATF's own proposal and analysis.df

The law says "constructed entirely"
It isn't.
Nothing the BATFE can say will ever change that.
Not AP.

The core is constructed entirely. WHich is what the law reads.
As much as I hate ATF they tend not to get stuff like that wrong.

 

[The Rabbi]

From ar15.com "Best Rounds for Self-Defense"

".223 While the M855-type ammunition generally meets performance requirements, there have been quite a few reports in inadequate fragmentation. Please remember that this is military ammo, and while the fragmenting properties are well documented and understood, there is no requirement for the bullet to fragment when being tested for acceptance. There can be significant variations in constructions which could make some lots perform much worse than others. For this reason, it is not on the list. While the M193-type ammo is not nearly as complicated of a design, it is also not inherently as devastating as the heavier OTMs listed below. Since this article is about the BEST choices for self-defense ammunition, it is omitted also."
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Wah wah Not even a "best choice for defense" round.

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

What is a civlian application? Most people shoot it at targets out to 300 yards or so. And a .22 going 3k fps sounds pretty nifty to me. Certainly has worked on a ton of bad guys.

 

[BULLDOG]

SS 109 Greentip/ Kevlar ....

who gives a shit about armored tanks, ask a COP if he or she wants to be the catcher of a round bad guys like ..

Pssssst.....any 5.56 ball ammo will make mince meat out of the majority of body armor.
Just dont tell obozo.

Commenting without having the slightest idea about the subject again I see. I'll bet you don't know why that particular shell is being banned when so many others used in an AR are not being bothered,

Shut up you little bitch. I put more rounds down range on a Saturday then you've shot in your pissant little life.
Jesus..how did we end up with faggots like you in Texas?
Get out ya fucken metrohomo!

Don't hold back you big old pussy. Tell me what you REALLY think. Just because you can buy a 2400 pack of BBs for 5 bucks at walmart doesn't make you the Lone Ranger. If you were a better shot, you wouldn't have to waste so much ammo.

 

[Redfish]

Great move obozo. now only criminals, terrorists, and the government will have ammo.

what a fricken moron

 

[The Rabbi]

Great move obozo. now only criminals, terrorists, and the government will have ammo.

what a fricken moron

Nonsense. There's plenty of 55gr FMJ out there that works just fine. Other weights and styles too.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

It looks like the current administration is back to its old tricks of seeking backdoor gun control that will only affect law abiding gun owners. The ATF is apparently in the process of attempting to ban a popular type of 5.56mm round that is popular with AR-15 owners. Based on new proposed regulations, the ATF is essentially seeking a ban on the popular M855 round (aka “green tip”). The NRA-ILA weighed in on the measure:

Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible.


By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.”.

Obama to ban green tip 5.56 ammo

Anyone who has spent time in the military and has been issued this ammo knows it has no armor piercing capabilities. That won't stop Obama from banning it or any other ammo he feels like banning in the future.

Not surprisingly you're completely ignoring the method to their madness. The "Green tip" rounds ARE in fact armor piercing. If you google green tip vs soft body armor you'll see all ya need to know to understand why they're being banned.

Level IV hard body armor plates must stop 1 round of

"

o .308 FMJ
o AK-47
o M-16 - M855 or SS-109, etc."

Since most police officers aren't using these 'max' plates but lesser versions of soft body armor, the reason for the ban is clear.

There's no animal in North America you need AP rounds for. They're cop-killer rounds pure and simple.

You need a minimum of 3/8 AR500 steel to reliably stop a common 5.56 round.One 9x12 plate weighs around 11.5 lbs. and you need two.
Cops wont be wearing these in the field.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

From ar15.com "Best Rounds for Self-Defense"

".223 While the M855-type ammunition generally meets performance requirements, there have been quite a few reports in inadequate fragmentation. Please remember that this is military ammo, and while the fragmenting properties are well documented and understood, there is no requirement for the bullet to fragment when being tested for acceptance. There can be significant variations in constructions which could make some lots perform much worse than others. For this reason, it is not on the list. While the M193-type ammo is not nearly as complicated of a design, it is also not inherently as devastating as the heavier OTMs listed below. Since this article is about the BEST choices for self-defense ammunition, it is omitted also."
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Wah wah Not even a "best choice for defense" round.

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

What is a civlian application? Most people shoot it at targets out to 300 yards or so. And a .22 going 3k fps sounds pretty nifty to me. Certainly has worked on a ton of bad guys.

SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming shoot-to-wound policy put their lives at risk Daily Mail Online

"SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming 'shoot-to-wound' policy put their lives at risk

* Bullets upgrade recommended in top-secret report on SAS operations
* Authors describe clashes with Taliban who ignore bullet wounds and carry on shooting

The rounds currently issued as standard to SAS troops for their rifles are 5.56 mm calibre. In future, the troopers will be given 7.62 mm rounds – which are almost twice as heavy and designed to kill with a single shot."

Only reason a 5.56mm round and weapons system exists is soldiers in Vietnam were such bad shots the M14s in use were running out of ammo. But the spectacular inefficiency of 5.56mm in antipersonnel applications is well-documented.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

From ar15.com "Best Rounds for Self-Defense"

".223 While the M855-type ammunition generally meets performance requirements, there have been quite a few reports in inadequate fragmentation. Please remember that this is military ammo, and while the fragmenting properties are well documented and understood, there is no requirement for the bullet to fragment when being tested for acceptance. There can be significant variations in constructions which could make some lots perform much worse than others. For this reason, it is not on the list. While the M193-type ammo is not nearly as complicated of a design, it is also not inherently as devastating as the heavier OTMs listed below. Since this article is about the BEST choices for self-defense ammunition, it is omitted also."
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Wah wah Not even a "best choice for defense" round.

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

What do you think a 5.56 is?

 

[Redfish]

Great move obozo. now only criminals, terrorists, and the government will have ammo.

what a fricken moron

Nonsense. There's plenty of 55gr FMJ out there that works just fine. Other weights and styles too.

I was making a general statement about obama and his gun/ammo control ideas. Yes, for now there is plenty of ammo available and I have a pretty good stock of everything that my guns use.

 

[The Rabbi]

From ar15.com "Best Rounds for Self-Defense"

".223 While the M855-type ammunition generally meets performance requirements, there have been quite a few reports in inadequate fragmentation. Please remember that this is military ammo, and while the fragmenting properties are well documented and understood, there is no requirement for the bullet to fragment when being tested for acceptance. There can be significant variations in constructions which could make some lots perform much worse than others. For this reason, it is not on the list. While the M193-type ammo is not nearly as complicated of a design, it is also not inherently as devastating as the heavier OTMs listed below. Since this article is about the BEST choices for self-defense ammunition, it is omitted also."
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Wah wah Not even a "best choice for defense" round.

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

What is a civlian application? Most people shoot it at targets out to 300 yards or so. And a .22 going 3k fps sounds pretty nifty to me. Certainly has worked on a ton of bad guys.

SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming shoot-to-wound policy put their lives at risk Daily Mail Online

"SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming 'shoot-to-wound' policy put their lives at risk

* Bullets upgrade recommended in top-secret report on SAS operations
* Authors describe clashes with Taliban who ignore bullet wounds and carry on shooting

The rounds currently issued as standard to SAS troops for their rifles are 5.56 mm calibre. In future, the troopers will be given 7.62 mm rounds – which are almost twice as heavy and designed to kill with a single shot."

Only reason a 5.56mm round and weapons system exists is soldiers in Vietnam were such bad shots the M14s in use were running out of ammo. But the spectacular inefficiency of 5.56mm in antipersonnel applications is well-documented.

Thats total nonsense. Iv'e talked to dozens of guys who saw combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. The 5.56 performed just fine.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It looks like the current administration is back to its old tricks of seeking backdoor gun control that will only affect law abiding gun owners. The ATF is apparently in the process of attempting to ban a popular type of 5.56mm round that is popular with AR-15 owners. Based on new proposed regulations, the ATF is essentially seeking a ban on the popular M855 round (aka “green tip”). The NRA-ILA weighed in on the measure:

Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible.


By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.”.

Obama to ban green tip 5.56 ammo

Anyone who has spent time in the military and has been issued this ammo knows it has no armor piercing capabilities. That won't stop Obama from banning it or any other ammo he feels like banning in the future.

Just to play devil's advocate with some of the literalist constitutional types around here,

are bullets mentioned in the Constitution?

 

[NYcarbineer]

From ar15.com "Best Rounds for Self-Defense"

".223 While the M855-type ammunition generally meets performance requirements, there have been quite a few reports in inadequate fragmentation. Please remember that this is military ammo, and while the fragmenting properties are well documented and understood, there is no requirement for the bullet to fragment when being tested for acceptance. There can be significant variations in constructions which could make some lots perform much worse than others. For this reason, it is not on the list. While the M193-type ammo is not nearly as complicated of a design, it is also not inherently as devastating as the heavier OTMs listed below. Since this article is about the BEST choices for self-defense ammunition, it is omitted also."
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Wah wah Not even a "best choice for defense" round.

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

What is a civlian application? Most people shoot it at targets out to 300 yards or so. And a .22 going 3k fps sounds pretty nifty to me. Certainly has worked on a ton of bad guys.

SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming shoot-to-wound policy put their lives at risk Daily Mail Online

"SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming 'shoot-to-wound' policy put their lives at risk

* Bullets upgrade recommended in top-secret report on SAS operations
* Authors describe clashes with Taliban who ignore bullet wounds and carry on shooting

The rounds currently issued as standard to SAS troops for their rifles are 5.56 mm calibre. In future, the troopers will be given 7.62 mm rounds – which are almost twice as heavy and designed to kill with a single shot."

Only reason a 5.56mm round and weapons system exists is soldiers in Vietnam were such bad shots the M14s in use were running out of ammo. But the spectacular inefficiency of 5.56mm in antipersonnel applications is well-documented.

Thats total nonsense. Iv'e talked to dozens of guys who saw combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. The 5.56 performed just fine.

What's Bill O'Reilly's expert opinion of it?

lol

 

[The Rabbi]

It looks like the current administration is back to its old tricks of seeking backdoor gun control that will only affect law abiding gun owners. The ATF is apparently in the process of attempting to ban a popular type of 5.56mm round that is popular with AR-15 owners. Based on new proposed regulations, the ATF is essentially seeking a ban on the popular M855 round (aka “green tip”). The NRA-ILA weighed in on the measure:

Now, BATFE has released a “Framework for Determining Whether Certain Projectiles are ‘Primarily Intended for Sporting Purposes’ Within the Meaning of 18 U.S.C. 921(a)(17)(c)”, which would eliminate M855’s exemption to the armor piercing ammunition prohibition and make future exemptions nearly impossible.


By way of background, federal law imposed in 1986 prohibits the manufacture, importation, and sale by licensed manufacturers or importers, but not possession, of “a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely . . . from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium.” Because there are handguns capable of firing M855, it “may be used in a handgun.” It does not, however, have a core made of the metals listed in the law; rather, it has a traditional lead core with a steel tip, and therefore should never have been considered “armor piercing.” Nonetheless, BATFE previously declared M855 to be “armor piercing ammunition,” but granted it an exemption as a projectile “primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes.”.

Obama to ban green tip 5.56 ammo

Anyone who has spent time in the military and has been issued this ammo knows it has no armor piercing capabilities. That won't stop Obama from banning it or any other ammo he feels like banning in the future.

Just to play devil's advocate with some of the literalist constitutional types around here,

are bullets mentioned in the Constitution?

No. Whats yer point?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

From ar15.com "Best Rounds for Self-Defense"

".223 While the M855-type ammunition generally meets performance requirements, there have been quite a few reports in inadequate fragmentation. Please remember that this is military ammo, and while the fragmenting properties are well documented and understood, there is no requirement for the bullet to fragment when being tested for acceptance. There can be significant variations in constructions which could make some lots perform much worse than others. For this reason, it is not on the list. While the M193-type ammo is not nearly as complicated of a design, it is also not inherently as devastating as the heavier OTMs listed below. Since this article is about the BEST choices for self-defense ammunition, it is omitted also."
Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Wah wah Not even a "best choice for defense" round.

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

What is a civlian application? Most people shoot it at targets out to 300 yards or so. And a .22 going 3k fps sounds pretty nifty to me. Certainly has worked on a ton of bad guys.

SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming shoot-to-wound policy put their lives at risk Daily Mail Online

"SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming 'shoot-to-wound' policy put their lives at risk

* Bullets upgrade recommended in top-secret report on SAS operations
* Authors describe clashes with Taliban who ignore bullet wounds and carry on shooting

The rounds currently issued as standard to SAS troops for their rifles are 5.56 mm calibre. In future, the troopers will be given 7.62 mm rounds – which are almost twice as heavy and designed to kill with a single shot."

Only reason a 5.56mm round and weapons system exists is soldiers in Vietnam were such bad shots the M14s in use were running out of ammo. But the spectacular inefficiency of 5.56mm in antipersonnel applications is well-documented.

Thats total nonsense. Iv'e talked to dozens of guys who saw combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. The 5.56 performed just fine.

M4 M16 and 5.65mm NATO cartridge A Disgrace
"The U.S. Military's M4 Carbine, M16 Rifle and 5.56mm NATO Cartridge:
A National Disgrace?"

The truth about the 5.56mm round
"There's been tons written on various discussion threads about this topic, and mountains more available online. The short version of the story (though I'm sure some will argue otherwise) is that 5.56mm is a highly effective killing round *when it strikes a target at sufficient speed to induce fragmentation.* That's the "multiple wound channels" stuff you're talking about. M193 is said by many to be a better round, in terms of fragmenting, but SS109 will also fragment and will more reliably penetrate body armor. If 5.56mm hits at speeds too low to ensure fragmentation (required speed varies by type of round -- a short search via Google should give hard numbers), it is basically a .22 round drilled into and perhaps through a target. In this case, lethality depends on hitting something vital like major arteries, brain/spine, lung(s) etc."

(note, above writing is from 2004)

The USA s M4 Carbine Controversies
"The M4/M16 family is both praised and criticized for its current performance in the field. In recent years, the M4 finished dead last in a sandstorm reliability test, against 3 competitors that include a convertible M4 variant. Worse, the 4th place M4 had over 3.5x more jams than the 3rd place finisher. "

7.62 mm Versus 5.56 mm - Does NATO Really Need Two Standard
"Conclusion: The 5.56mm will, at best, only be an interim
NATO standard. Due to its small size, further improvements of
the 5.56mm will be insufficient to keep up with the changing
requirements of future battlefields. Overall, the older 7.62mm
NATO is a better standard cartridge since it has the capacity and
the flexibility to be significantly improved and thereby remain
effective.
V. Recommendations: The 7.62mm NATO cartridge should be
developed with current technology to improve its penetration,
lethality, and overall-performance."


Wanna use the 'crunchenticker' of the rifle world go ahead. I'll stick to what actually works best.

 

[Iceweasel]

If 5.56mm hits at speeds too low to ensure fragmentation (required speed varies by type of round --best.

I am not getting your point. I'm not going to shoot through water.

 

[The Rabbi]

It isnt. The ammo frankly sucks. It makes for good milsurp shooting ammo. Thats about it.

Correct. It's a military round which means it probably meets milspec requirements out to however far while still achieving how ever much armor piercing they demand to emet the specs. It's design though isn't intended for hunting or civilian applications. Plus, honestly, who uses a 22 for defense?

What is a civlian application? Most people shoot it at targets out to 300 yards or so. And a .22 going 3k fps sounds pretty nifty to me. Certainly has worked on a ton of bad guys.

SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming shoot-to-wound policy put their lives at risk Daily Mail Online

"SAS to use bigger bullets to kill enemy outright after claiming 'shoot-to-wound' policy put their lives at risk

* Bullets upgrade recommended in top-secret report on SAS operations
* Authors describe clashes with Taliban who ignore bullet wounds and carry on shooting

The rounds currently issued as standard to SAS troops for their rifles are 5.56 mm calibre. In future, the troopers will be given 7.62 mm rounds – which are almost twice as heavy and designed to kill with a single shot."

Only reason a 5.56mm round and weapons system exists is soldiers in Vietnam were such bad shots the M14s in use were running out of ammo. But the spectacular inefficiency of 5.56mm in antipersonnel applications is well-documented.

Thats total nonsense. Iv'e talked to dozens of guys who saw combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. The 5.56 performed just fine.

M4 M16 and 5.65mm NATO cartridge A Disgrace
"The U.S. Military's M4 Carbine, M16 Rifle and 5.56mm NATO Cartridge:
A National Disgrace?"

The truth about the 5.56mm round
"There's been tons written on various discussion threads about this topic, and mountains more available online. The short version of the story (though I'm sure some will argue otherwise) is that 5.56mm is a highly effective killing round *when it strikes a target at sufficient speed to induce fragmentation.* That's the "multiple wound channels" stuff you're talking about. M193 is said by many to be a better round, in terms of fragmenting, but SS109 will also fragment and will more reliably penetrate body armor. If 5.56mm hits at speeds too low to ensure fragmentation (required speed varies by type of round -- a short search via Google should give hard numbers), it is basically a .22 round drilled into and perhaps through a target. In this case, lethality depends on hitting something vital like major arteries, brain/spine, lung(s) etc."

(note, above writing is from 2004)

The USA s M4 Carbine Controversies
"The M4/M16 family is both praised and criticized for its current performance in the field. In recent years, the M4 finished dead last in a sandstorm reliability test, against 3 competitors that include a convertible M4 variant. Worse, the 4th place M4 had over 3.5x more jams than the 3rd place finisher. "

7.62 mm Versus 5.56 mm - Does NATO Really Need Two Standard
"Conclusion: The 5.56mm will, at best, only be an interim
NATO standard. Due to its small size, further improvements of
the 5.56mm will be insufficient to keep up with the changing
requirements of future battlefields. Overall, the older 7.62mm
NATO is a better standard cartridge since it has the capacity and
the flexibility to be significantly improved and thereby remain
effective.
V. Recommendations: The 7.62mm NATO cartridge should be
developed with current technology to improve its penetration,
lethality, and overall-performance."


Wanna use the 'crunchenticker' of the rifle world go ahead. I'll stick to what actually works best.

Opinions are like assholes. Most stink.
The 5.56mm round is the longest issued round in the US arsenal for regular infantry duty. (Yes, I know they still issue some M14s on 7.62 but thats not the military's standard battle round).