Now We Know The Truth About Accusing the Right of Being Racists

[Sky Dancer]

For some - but not enough and not everyone.

I work in the field as a social worker. They people who don't get off welfare are multiply challenged by mental illness, substance abuse, domestic violence, crime and a host of other social problems.

You want to oversimplify the situation and say that everyone can succeed but you'd be wrong.

 

[boedicca]

For some - but not enough and not everyone.

I work in the field as a social worker. They people who don't get off welfare are multiply challenged by mental illness, substance abuse, domestic violence, crime and a host of other social problems.

You want to oversimplify the situation and say that everyone can succeed but you'd be wrong.

And what caused that host of social problems in the first place?

The destruction of nuclear families wrought by giving teenage girls welfare to have babies out of wedlock certainly hasn't helped the situation.

 

[DiveCon]

you don't think that falsely portraying republicans and conservatives in general as racist plays NO part in that?

Seeing conservative blacks reviled as Uncle Toms and not true People of Color most certainly has an impact.

I don't think of them that way. People vote their interests. Not one Republican presidential candidate has recieived more than 15% of the black vote since 1965.

which again, has nothing to do with whats being said
in fact, it actually helps our point that portraying the GOP as racist DOES work

 

[Sky Dancer]

For some - but not enough and not everyone.

I work in the field as a social worker. They people who don't get off welfare are multiply challenged by mental illness, substance abuse, domestic violence, crime and a host of other social problems.

You want to oversimplify the situation and say that everyone can succeed but you'd be wrong.

And what caused that host of social problems in the first place?

The destruction of nuclear families wrought by giving teenage girls welfare to have babies out of wedlock certainly hasn't helped the situation.

Let's talk about what the causes of those social problems are. You're claiming that welfare caused the problems.

Welfare is a response to the problems.

 

[Foxfyre]

I can agree with that.

The Democrats cater to the poor, needy and the downtrodden. They cater to them with promises and sometimes they even follow through.

I don't think they necessarily care any more for them than Conservatives/Republicans do, but I think the message is easier to sell coming from the liberal/Democrat perspective. The Democrats believe that Welfare is the answer to saving the poor. Republicans believe it to be much of the problem. Conservatives/Republicans believe in the hand up rather than the hand out. Who is right? Personally, I think the hand up is better in the long run.

But, how do you sell the Conservative/Republican message to the single mother of five who is struggling to make ends meet? You don't. Even if in the long run she would be better off being out from under Welfare.

Immie

More importantly, those kids would benefit from seeing Mom (and/or preferably Dad) getting up, getting cleaned up, getting dressed, going to work, and bringing home a paycheck.

Welfare does help some people for sure, but in the process it has diminished and destroyed many wonderful private charities who were more effective and efficient in doing that and did it without destroying the black family etc. The legacy of helping some is obvious in single mothers who have never been married, destruction of most of the nuclear family, making the men irrelevent or a detriment to the family, an abysmal school drop out rate, and whole neighborhoods so dangerous and crime ridden that life expectancyis significantly reduced.

And honest appraisal of government welfare has to look at those statistics with an open mind, and acknowledge that none of those conditions existed, except in rare incidents, before welfare went into effect.

Helping people sounds so wonderful and unselfish and noble and it's easy to get caught up in the semantics and ignore the results of unintended consequences.

With all due respect. I have been a social worker my whole professional life. Welfare is a temporary and needed helping hand for children and families.

It's not the evil you portray. It's not destroying families. Poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, crime destroy families.

In all due respect, I have been working with the poor and disadvantaged probably for a lot more years than you have. And I've seen first hand some of the problems that exist. And I also am a student of history who isn't afraid to look underneath the liberal veneer some use to gloss over the uglier truths. I lived before welfare, and I have read the detailed analysis of black historians who have identified all the problems within it. Welfare has encouraged and perpetuated the broken family and single parent syndrome among the poor and it is THAT syndrome that has created most of the poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, and crime that we now have.

The greatest danger to the liberal vision are facts about the consequences of liberalism itself and the laws, policies, and ways of life that the left has spawned.

That the black family, which survived centuries of slavery and generations of discrimination, has disintegrated in the wake of the liberal welfare state is only one example.

Liberals have been driven to the desperate expedient of attributing this and other social pathology in today's ghettos to "a legacy of slavery" -- even though black children grew up with two parents more often under slavery than today.

Blacks only a generation or two out of slavery also had higher rates of employment and lower rates of crime than today.

The illogic of the "legacy of slavery" argument only illustrates the desperate attempt to salvage the liberal vision.

The very people who argue this way would never be guilty of such illogic in discussing something that was not such a threat to their vision.

One of the most telling examples of the social destructiveness of the left's welfare-state vision can be found among the white slum dwellers in Britain described in the brilliant and insightful book "Life at the Bottom" by Theodore Dalrymple.

There it is not possible to blame social degeneracy on slavery, racism or any of the other things cited as causes of the behavior and consequences found among blacks in American slums. Yet the results are virtually identical, right down to children beating up classmates for trying to get an education.

The vision of the left, full of envy and resentment, takes its worst toll on those at the bottom -- whether black or white -- who find in that paranoid vision an excuse for counterproductive and ultimately self-destructive attitudes and behavior.
--Thomas Sowell PhD
Capitalism Magazine - Preserving a Vision--at the Expense of the Facts

Most of the major problems that many black people face are not amendable to political solutions and government anti-poverty programs. Let's look at some. In 1940, 86 percent of black children were born inside marriage, and the illegitimacy rate among blacks was about 15 percent. Today, only 35 percent of black children are born inside marriage, and the illegitimacy rate hovers around 70 percent. Today's breakdown of the black family is unprecedented. It began in the 1960s with the War on Poverty and the harebrained ideas of the welfare state. In the mid-1960s, Daniel Moynihan sounded the alarm about the breakdown in the black family in his book "The Negro Family: The Case for National Action." At that time black illegitimacy was 26 percent. Moynihan said, "(A)t the heart of the deterioration of the fabric of the Negro society is the deterioration of the Negro family.
--Walter Williams,PhD
Townhall - Walter E. Williams - Politics and Blacks

 

[Sky Dancer]

Seeing conservative blacks reviled as Uncle Toms and not true People of Color most certainly has an impact.

I don't think of them that way. People vote their interests. Not one Republican presidential candidate has recieived more than 15% of the black vote since 1965.

which again, has nothing to do with whats being said
in fact, it actually helps our point that portraying the GOP as racist DOES work

Who portrays the GOP as racist? I don't. I just see the Democratic platform as more socially progressive and social justice oriented.

 

[Sky Dancer]

More importantly, those kids would benefit from seeing Mom (and/or preferably Dad) getting up, getting cleaned up, getting dressed, going to work, and bringing home a paycheck.

Welfare does help some people for sure, but in the process it has diminished and destroyed many wonderful private charities who were more effective and efficient in doing that and did it without destroying the black family etc. The legacy of helping some is obvious in single mothers who have never been married, destruction of most of the nuclear family, making the men irrelevent or a detriment to the family, an abysmal school drop out rate, and whole neighborhoods so dangerous and crime ridden that life expectancyis significantly reduced.

And honest appraisal of government welfare has to look at those statistics with an open mind, and acknowledge that none of those conditions existed, except in rare incidents, before welfare went into effect.

Helping people sounds so wonderful and unselfish and noble and it's easy to get caught up in the semantics and ignore the results of unintended consequences.

With all due respect. I have been a social worker my whole professional life. Welfare is a temporary and needed helping hand for children and families.

It's not the evil you portray. It's not destroying families. Poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, crime destroy families.

In all due respect, I have been working with the poor and disadvantaged probably for a lot more years than you have. And I've seen first hand some of the problems that exist. And I also am a student of history who isn't afraid to look underneath the liberal veneer some use to gloss over the uglier truths. I lived before welfare, and I have read the detailed analysis of black historians who have identified all the problems within it. Welfare has encouraged and perpetuated the broken family and single parent syndrome among the poor and it is THAT syndrome that has created most of the poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, and crime that we now have.

The greatest danger to the liberal vision are facts about the consequences of liberalism itself and the laws, policies, and ways of life that the left has spawned.

That the black family, which survived centuries of slavery and generations of discrimination, has disintegrated in the wake of the liberal welfare state is only one example.

Liberals have been driven to the desperate expedient of attributing this and other social pathology in today's ghettos to "a legacy of slavery" -- even though black children grew up with two parents more often under slavery than today.

Blacks only a generation or two out of slavery also had higher rates of employment and lower rates of crime than today.

The illogic of the "legacy of slavery" argument only illustrates the desperate attempt to salvage the liberal vision.

The very people who argue this way would never be guilty of such illogic in discussing something that was not such a threat to their vision.

One of the most telling examples of the social destructiveness of the left's welfare-state vision can be found among the white slum dwellers in Britain described in the brilliant and insightful book "Life at the Bottom" by Theodore Dalrymple.

There it is not possible to blame social degeneracy on slavery, racism or any of the other things cited as causes of the behavior and consequences found among blacks in American slums. Yet the results are virtually identical, right down to children beating up classmates for trying to get an education.

The vision of the left, full of envy and resentment, takes its worst toll on those at the bottom -- whether black or white -- who find in that paranoid vision an excuse for counterproductive and ultimately self-destructive attitudes and behavior.
--Thomas Sowell PhD
Capitalism Magazine - Preserving a Vision--at the Expense of the Facts

Most of the major problems that many black people face are not amendable to political solutions and government anti-poverty programs. Let's look at some. In 1940, 86 percent of black children were born inside marriage, and the illegitimacy rate among blacks was about 15 percent. Today, only 35 percent of black children are born inside marriage, and the illegitimacy rate hovers around 70 percent. Today's breakdown of the black family is unprecedented. It began in the 1960s with the War on Poverty and the harebrained ideas of the welfare state. In the mid-1960s, Daniel Moynihan sounded the alarm about the breakdown in the black family in his book "The Negro Family: The Case for National Action." At that time black illegitimacy was 26 percent. Moynihan said, "(A)t the heart of the deterioration of the fabric of the Negro society is the deterioration of the Negro family.
--Walter Williams,PhD
Townhall - Walter E. Williams - Politics and Blacks

We see it differently. In your view, those 'libruls' are evil.

 

[boedicca]

For starters, here's who:

The Spencer Ackerman Tactic:

“If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they’ve put upon us,” Ackerman wrote on the Journolist listserv in April 2008. “Instead, take one of them — Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists.”

 

[boedicca]

I work in the field as a social worker. They people who don't get off welfare are multiply challenged by mental illness, substance abuse, domestic violence, crime and a host of other social problems.

You want to oversimplify the situation and say that everyone can succeed but you'd be wrong.

And what caused that host of social problems in the first place?

The destruction of nuclear families wrought by giving teenage girls welfare to have babies out of wedlock certainly hasn't helped the situation.

Let's talk about what the causes of those social problems are. You're claiming that welfare caused the problems.

Welfare is a response to the problems.

A cure that ended up worsening the disease.

 

[DiveCon]

For starters, here's who:

The Spencer Ackerman Tactic:

“If the right forces us all to either defend Wright or tear him down, no matter what we choose, we lose the game they’ve put upon us,” Ackerman wrote on the Journolist listserv in April 2008. “Instead, take one of them — Fred Barnes, Karl Rove, who cares — and call them racists.”

Sky wants to pretend that didnt happen

 

[Sky Dancer]

And what caused that host of social problems in the first place?

The destruction of nuclear families wrought by giving teenage girls welfare to have babies out of wedlock certainly hasn't helped the situation.

Let's talk about what the causes of those social problems are. You're claiming that welfare caused the problems.

Welfare is a response to the problems.

A cure that ended up worsening the disease.

In your opinion.

 

[boedicca]

Pandora's box is open. She can't stuff the the evil of the leftwing falsely accusing innocent people on the right of Racism back into it.

 

[boedicca]

Let's talk about what the causes of those social problems are. You're claiming that welfare caused the problems.

Welfare is a response to the problems.

A cure that ended up worsening the disease.

In your opinion.

Given my experience with my own opinion and the poor representation your posts make of yours, I'm quite happy sticking with mine.

Just sayin'.

 

[Foxfyre]

With all due respect. I have been a social worker my whole professional life. Welfare is a temporary and needed helping hand for children and families.

It's not the evil you portray. It's not destroying families. Poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, crime destroy families.

In all due respect, I have been working with the poor and disadvantaged probably for a lot more years than you have. And I've seen first hand some of the problems that exist. And I also am a student of history who isn't afraid to look underneath the liberal veneer some use to gloss over the uglier truths. I lived before welfare, and I have read the detailed analysis of black historians who have identified all the problems within it. Welfare has encouraged and perpetuated the broken family and single parent syndrome among the poor and it is THAT syndrome that has created most of the poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, and crime that we now have.

Most of the major problems that many black people face are not amendable to political solutions and government anti-poverty programs. Let's look at some. In 1940, 86 percent of black children were born inside marriage, and the illegitimacy rate among blacks was about 15 percent. Today, only 35 percent of black children are born inside marriage, and the illegitimacy rate hovers around 70 percent. Today's breakdown of the black family is unprecedented. It began in the 1960s with the War on Poverty and the harebrained ideas of the welfare state. In the mid-1960s, Daniel Moynihan sounded the alarm about the breakdown in the black family in his book "The Negro Family: The Case for National Action." At that time black illegitimacy was 26 percent. Moynihan said, "(A)t the heart of the deterioration of the fabric of the Negro society is the deterioration of the Negro family.
--Walter Williams,PhD
Townhall - Walter E. Williams - Politics and Blacks

We see it differently. In your view, those 'libruls' are evil.

Do you think being wrong is the same thing as being evil?

I haven't said that anywhere, any place, at any time. So would you like to defend what you say my view is? Or retract it?

I presume you didn't read the excerpts of Dr. Sowell and Dr. William's essays. Both are descendants of slaves and were born and grew up under segregation and have done a tremendous amount of research and writing on the condition of the black family. Are you saying they are evil too?

 

[Sky Dancer]

A cure that ended up worsening the disease.

In your opinion.

Given my experience with my own opinion and the poor representation your posts make of yours, I'm quite happy sticking with mine.

Just sayin'.

Fine.

 

[Rinata]

A cure that ended up worsening the disease.

In your opinion.

Given my experience with my own opinion and the poor representation your posts make of yours, I'm quite happy sticking with mine.

Just sayin'.

Just sayin' again??? I don't know why you constantly add that phrase to your posts. It's stupid.

 

[Sky Dancer]

In all due respect, I have been working with the poor and disadvantaged probably for a lot more years than you have. And I've seen first hand some of the problems that exist. And I also am a student of history who isn't afraid to look underneath the liberal veneer some use to gloss over the uglier truths. I lived before welfare, and I have read the detailed analysis of black historians who have identified all the problems within it. Welfare has encouraged and perpetuated the broken family and single parent syndrome among the poor and it is THAT syndrome that has created most of the poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence, and crime that we now have.

We see it differently. In your view, those 'libruls' are evil.

Do you think being wrong is the same thing as being evil?

I haven't said that anywhere, any place, at any time. So would you like to defend what you say my view is? Or retract it?

I retract it. I mistated your position. You blame liberalism for all the social problems you mentioned, poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence etc.

Tell me how is liberalism responsible for domestic violence?

I can't wait.

How is liberalism responsible for mental illness?

 

[DiveCon]

We see it differently. In your view, those 'libruls' are evil.

Do you think being wrong is the same thing as being evil?

I haven't said that anywhere, any place, at any time. So would you like to defend what you say my view is? Or retract it?

I retract it. I mistated your position. You blame liberalism for all the social problems you mentioned, poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence etc.

Tell me how is liberalism responsible for domestic violence?

I can't wait.

How is liberalism responsible for mental illness?

first, please show where anyone has said they were responsible for those things

 

[Foxfyre]

We see it differently. In your view, those 'libruls' are evil.

Do you think being wrong is the same thing as being evil?

I haven't said that anywhere, any place, at any time. So would you like to defend what you say my view is? Or retract it?

I retract it. I mistated your position. You blame liberalism for all the social problems you mentioned, poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence etc.

Tell me how is liberalism responsible for domestic violence?

I can't wait.

First you will have to defend your statement about who I blame for all the social problems I have mentioned. You several times now have stated what I think, what I want, who I blame, etc. etc. etc.

For somebody who claims to be so open minded, you sure do have a tendency to label people or accuse them of things they never said.

Did you read the excerpts of Dr. Sowell and Dr. William's essays? What did you think of them? Is there any possibility that since they've both lived it, researched it, studied it, and looked at it from every possible angle, that they are right?

As for domestic violence, I do have a great deal of expertise and hands on experience working with victims and abusers, and it deserves its own thread due to the complexity of the subject.

 

[Sky Dancer]

Do you think being wrong is the same thing as being evil?

I haven't said that anywhere, any place, at any time. So would you like to defend what you say my view is? Or retract it?

I retract it. I mistated your position. You blame liberalism for all the social problems you mentioned, poverty, drug abuse, domestic violence etc.

Tell me how is liberalism responsible for domestic violence?

I can't wait.

First you will have to defend your statement about who I blame for all the social problems I have mentioned. You several times now have stated what I think, what I want, who I blame, etc. etc. etc.

For somebody who claims to be so open minded, you sure do have a tendency to label people or accuse them of things they never said.

Did you read the excerpts of Dr. Sowell and Dr. William's essays? What did you think of them? Is there any possibility that since they've both lived it, researched it, studied it, and looked at it from every possible angle, that they are right?

As for domestic violence, I do have a great deal of expertise and hands on experience working with victims and abusers, and it deserves its own thread due to the complexity of the subject.

It the cart before the horse. You claim welfare was the cause of the social problems and not a response to them. Has welfare created new problems? Yes.

How is welfare causal in domestic violence?

My point is that some people get stuck on welfare because of the many problems they have; mental illness, substance abuse, domestic violence etc. Welfare did not cause those problems. They add to the complexity of trying to help someone get out of the culture of poverty.