Nobody doubts the M4 is an assault weapon. Are there any material differences between an M4 and an AR15?

[BULLDOG]

Aren't there any smart gun enthusiasts that can answer my question?

The select-fire option is the basic difference. You seem to be trying to make the case that the average AR-owner is capable of the gunsmithing necessary to create a full-auto weapon. The truth is that these rifles are used in fewer killings than hammers or knives, or fists and feet, for that matter.

Here's a question right back atcha -
Is THIS an "assault weapon"?
View attachment 489862
It's a Ruger mini-14. It fires the same rounds as the AR and just as rapidly - one round for every pull of the trigger. The gaslighting bullshit about AR or AK-styled weapons is just that. When the government comes for the guns, they won't be stupid enough to try to grab them all at once. They take the AR/AK platform first, wait a while then come for all semi-autos of a certain caliber range, THEN they'll get around to the serious business of collecting the true tool of slaughter - semi-auto handguns.
*SPOILER ALERT* IT DOESN'T END WELL FOR THE DOOR KICKERS.

Yes, I know about the select fire option. That is why I excluded that from the discussion. I'm trying to find out differences other than the obviously main difference.
I have specifically refrained from making any case for anything. I just asked the question, and perhaps lightly discussed some of the answers.
I've shot a mini-14. but don't know enough about it to comment.
I see you have concerns about the government taking our guns, but that has nothing to do with my question.

These are the words we should be focusing on......

"I've shot a mini-14. but don't know enough about it to comment."

And?

And you dont know shit about firearms.

I'm no expert, but it's not hard to know at least as much as many here who portray themselves as experts.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Ok. I guess nobody can tell of any material differences, other than full auto/ 3 round burst, between the two rifles. In a heads up comparison, the AR shows to be better in a wide range of tactical shooting tests.

FYI the supreme court has already ruled that a weapon must be of use to a militia in order for it to be protected by the second amendment.

 

[BULLDOG]

Just to be clear, you are saying that there is no real difference between an ordinary Ar15 and a fully automatic AR15, other than a few easily changed parts, right?

.

He should have added something like the example that an untraceable barrel cannot be used for anything other than a club until it is added to a traceable receiver.
So it basically doesn't matter if all the parts are traceable.

I am just saying that you overestimate what is necessary to achieve a goal or function.
The government banned bump stocks because of a condition of fire they gave access to.
With the proper knowledge you can manufacture something that will create the same condition from a bicycle tire.

Splitting hairs about traceable parts and model numbers won't stop that.
.​

My question didn't foresee any discussion about bicycle tires, but if bicycle tires are used on one, but not the other I would be interested in hearing about it.

 

[2aguy]

The difference between the AR15 and the M4 is the full auto/3 shot burst feature and the shorter barrel. To change the AR15 into full auto or shorten the barrel is an offense that will land you in prison for 10 years, at least.

But the actual definition of an assault rifle includes the ability to fire in full auto mode. So as long as the AR15 is not modified, it is not an assault rifle.

And the comparison is much like comparing a stock car and a NASCAR race car. The biggest difference is the engine. But the engine makes all the difference.

Yep....you can take the body of a NASCAR race car and replace it's engine with that of a Smart Car....the NASCAR isn't a NASCAR anymore...that is the same with the AR-15...it has the body of an M4 but the "engine" is completely different.....

 

[BULLDOG]

The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

An assault weapon is whatever a given lawmaking body determines it to be – not the military, not gun manufacturers, and not message board posters.

The problem is when lawmakers are utterly ignorant about guns and still make laws about them.

My favorite stupid politician when it comes to firearms......
3:00 minute mark.

Wow. That is a special kind of stupid.

No doubt someone will explain her misunderstanding to her. Not much chance of any laws being passed based on her erroneous remark.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Aren't there any smart gun enthusiasts that can answer my question?

The select-fire option is the basic difference. You seem to be trying to make the case that the average AR-owner is capable of the gunsmithing necessary to create a full-auto weapon. The truth is that these rifles are used in fewer killings than hammers or knives, or fists and feet, for that matter.

Here's a question right back atcha -
Is THIS an "assault weapon"?
View attachment 489862
It's a Ruger mini-14. It fires the same rounds as the AR and just as rapidly - one round for every pull of the trigger. The gaslighting bullshit about AR or AK-styled weapons is just that. When the government comes for the guns, they won't be stupid enough to try to grab them all at once. They take the AR/AK platform first, wait a while then come for all semi-autos of a certain caliber range, THEN they'll get around to the serious business of collecting the true tool of slaughter - semi-auto handguns.
*SPOILER ALERT* IT DOESN'T END WELL FOR THE DOOR KICKERS.

Yes, I know about the select fire option. That is why I excluded that from the discussion. I'm trying to find out differences other than the obviously main difference.
I have specifically refrained from making any case for anything. I just asked the question, and perhaps lightly discussed some of the answers.
I've shot a mini-14. but don't know enough about it to comment.
I see you have concerns about the government taking our guns, but that has nothing to do with my question.

These are the words we should be focusing on......

"I've shot a mini-14. but don't know enough about it to comment."

And?

And you dont know shit about firearms.

I'm no expert, but it's not hard to know at least as much as many here who portray themselves as experts.

I'm no expert either but I know far more than you.
My knowledge comes from shooting for the last 48 years.

 

[BULLDOG]

Okay....5 pages of answers.....soooo.....now what?

He's waiting for someone to say OMG THERES NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFSRENSE SO AR15S SHOULD BE BANNED HA CHECKMAET GUN NUTS

Sounds exciting. but no. I just asked a question.

Painfully transparent. You can stop pretending now.

Seems I forgot the republican superpower that allows them to spout unsupported crap and expect people to believe it.

 

[BULLDOG]

Please link to anything that might imply any desire I might have to demonize any rifle, scary or not.

I'm beginning to believe you don't have a point...

I've said several times in this thread that I am not attempting to make any point. I just asked a question. Seems the people responding aren't capable of understanding that. I don't blame them. They were probably home schooled.

You should give up trying to be condescending. You're not good at it.

Asking for proof of an accusation is not condescension.

"They were probably home schooled."

That is.

But since you brought up the subject, you're wrong about that, too. Homeschooled kids outperform public schooled kids.
Homeschoolers were seen to have an average standardized test score of 87th percentile as per the National Home Education Research Institute’s study. Compared to this, the score of those going to public school was only 50th percentile in certain subjects. Generally, standardized tests are not the best method of gauging a student’s academic performance.

A study related to the data obtained from the 2007-2008 school year by Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) shows a difference of 34 percentile – 39 percentile points excess in case of homeschoolers as compared to others, in all subjects. The College degree of parents or the time spent by them doesn’t make any notable difference in the results of homeschoolers. In such a scenario, some parents found teaching math a challenging task, and hence, their children could not excel in it like those in public schools.

Academic Performance of Homeschooled Students​

A study led by Michael Cogan by the University of St. Thomas revealed the homeschool graduation statistics that homeschooled students graduated college at a rate of 66.7%, which is 10% higher than the students from public schools.

The reports from The National Home Education Research Institute in 2015 show that they get 15%-30% more than the students of public schools in the standardized academic achievement exams. It has been seen that irrespective of the parent’s educational level and financial level, homeschoolers can score well.

Wow. You forgot to throw a couple of "but Clinton's" in there too, didn't you?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Okay....5 pages of answers.....soooo.....now what?

He's waiting for someone to say OMG THERES NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFSRENSE SO AR15S SHOULD BE BANNED HA CHECKMAET GUN NUTS

Sounds exciting. but no. I just asked a question.

Painfully transparent. You can stop pretending now.

Seems I forgot the republican superpower that allows them to spout unsupported crap and expect people to believe it.

So how many of those guns have been used in a commission of a crime?
According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), as of 2017, there were 630,000 machine guns in the U.S.

 

[BULLDOG]

The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

Part of the actual definition of an assault rifle is that it is able to fire in fully automatic mode. AR-15s are simi-automatic and incapable of fully automatic fire. Weapons 101. A very high percentage of all firearms are simi-automatic and not assault anything. This is basic knowledge and essential for any rational discussion of firearms use.

You are absolutely right. That is why I specifically excluded that capability from the discussion in the OP. Are you saying that the M4 and the AR15 are equivalent in everything but the multi-fire capability?

Well if you exclude the ammo then an M-4 is just a spoon. Don't be ridiculous.

Got it. You don't know the answer, so you think a dumb remark will cover up your ignorance.

So you know what the answer is, and you lied when you said you wanted honest debate.

Just like I said. A lame GOTCHA.

Not sure where I said I was looking for any kind of debate in this thread. Please link

Okay, so you didn't want debate. You just wanted someone to parrot your own opinion, which is that AR rifles should be banned.

Wrong again. I just asked a simple question. Don't worry about it if you don't know the answer.

You asked a question, then did not accept any answer offered.

Dishonest.

Sure I did. The Barrels are different. Is there any other material difference other than the multi-fire capability? Legality doesn't present much difference in a hands on comparison in a combat or shooting range, or any other shooting comparison.

 

[BULLDOG]

Whether assault rifles exist is a really dumb discussion. Our military has a definition of Assault Rifle, and the M4 certainly meets that definition. I'm asking how the M4 differs from an ar15, other than being full auto capable. I've already shown that the AR15 can be easily converted to full auto in #5.

.

You can convert diesel fuel into a bomb, but that won't ever make it C4.
I would say you might want to pass a law that makes converting an AR-15 to full auto illegal ... But there already is one ...

.​

Not sure what that has to do with this thread, or the question in the OP, but thank you for sharing.

 

[westwall]

Okay....5 pages of answers.....soooo.....now what?

He's waiting for someone to say OMG THERES NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFSRENSE SO AR15S SHOULD BE BANNED HA CHECKMAET GUN NUTS

Sounds exciting. but no. I just asked a question.

Painfully transparent. You can stop pretending now.

Seems I forgot the republican superpower that allows them to spout unsupported crap and expect people to believe it.

Um, that's the dem establishment with big tech support. Dumbass.

 

[BlackSand]

Sure I did. The Barrels are different. Is there any other material difference other than the multi-fire capability? Legality doesn't present much difference in a hands on comparison in a combat or shooting range, or any other shooting comparison.

.

There's not much significant difference in the M4 and AR-15 other than the full-auto multi-fire capabilities.
I think what a lot of people are trying to suggest, is that there is not much difference between any semi-automatic rifle and the M4 other than the multi-fire capabilities ...
no matter what it looks like or what you call it.

I mean if you want to get technical about performance issues or fancy tactical attachments, there are differences.
But if you are just talking about putting 6 big bullets downrange in a certain amount of time, there are a shitload of firearms that can do that.

.

 

[BULLDOG]

The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

So if it's so easy to convert an Armalite Rifle 15 into an automatic Rifle explain how it's done?

Most information on conversion has been removed from the internet, but I believe a lightning link is the quickest and easiest way. An auto sear is pretty straight forward too, but a little harder to make in your garage.

Full Auto for Any AR: How a Lightning Link Works -

Commonly known as the “Lightning Link” the S.W.D., Inc. Auto Connector is a rarity to see these days. With fewer than 900 manufactured and registered in the NFA registry, the Lightning Links are a novel way to convert a semi-automatic AR-15 into a fully-automatic firearm. While the conversion is...

www.thefirearmblog.com

 

[BULLDOG]

Ok. I guess nobody can tell of any material differences, other than full auto/ 3 round burst, between the two rifles. In a heads up comparison, the AR shows to be better in a wide range of tactical shooting tests.

FYI the supreme court has already ruled that a weapon must be of use to a militia in order for it to be protected by the second amendment.

True, but as I have said many times, this thread has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment.

 

[daveman]

Okay....5 pages of answers.....soooo.....now what?

He's waiting for someone to say OMG THERES NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFSRENSE SO AR15S SHOULD BE BANNED HA CHECKMAET GUN NUTS

Sounds exciting. but no. I just asked a question.

Painfully transparent. You can stop pretending now.

Seems I forgot the republican superpower that allows them to spout unsupported crap and expect people to believe it.

Uh huh. Tell me again how the sun rises in the west.

 

[daveman]

Please link to anything that might imply any desire I might have to demonize any rifle, scary or not.

I'm beginning to believe you don't have a point...

I've said several times in this thread that I am not attempting to make any point. I just asked a question. Seems the people responding aren't capable of understanding that. I don't blame them. They were probably home schooled.

You should give up trying to be condescending. You're not good at it.

Asking for proof of an accusation is not condescension.

"They were probably home schooled."

That is.

But since you brought up the subject, you're wrong about that, too. Homeschooled kids outperform public schooled kids.
Homeschoolers were seen to have an average standardized test score of 87th percentile as per the National Home Education Research Institute’s study. Compared to this, the score of those going to public school was only 50th percentile in certain subjects. Generally, standardized tests are not the best method of gauging a student’s academic performance.

A study related to the data obtained from the 2007-2008 school year by Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA) shows a difference of 34 percentile – 39 percentile points excess in case of homeschoolers as compared to others, in all subjects. The College degree of parents or the time spent by them doesn’t make any notable difference in the results of homeschoolers. In such a scenario, some parents found teaching math a challenging task, and hence, their children could not excel in it like those in public schools.

Academic Performance of Homeschooled Students​

A study led by Michael Cogan by the University of St. Thomas revealed the homeschool graduation statistics that homeschooled students graduated college at a rate of 66.7%, which is 10% higher than the students from public schools.

The reports from The National Home Education Research Institute in 2015 show that they get 15%-30% more than the students of public schools in the standardized academic achievement exams. It has been seen that irrespective of the parent’s educational level and financial level, homeschoolers can score well.

Wow. You forgot to throw a couple of "but Clinton's" in there too, didn't you?

Immaterial. You brought up the subject, and you were wrong about it. Own it.

 

[BULLDOG]

Aren't there any smart gun enthusiasts that can answer my question?

The select-fire option is the basic difference. You seem to be trying to make the case that the average AR-owner is capable of the gunsmithing necessary to create a full-auto weapon. The truth is that these rifles are used in fewer killings than hammers or knives, or fists and feet, for that matter.

Here's a question right back atcha -
Is THIS an "assault weapon"?
View attachment 489862
It's a Ruger mini-14. It fires the same rounds as the AR and just as rapidly - one round for every pull of the trigger. The gaslighting bullshit about AR or AK-styled weapons is just that. When the government comes for the guns, they won't be stupid enough to try to grab them all at once. They take the AR/AK platform first, wait a while then come for all semi-autos of a certain caliber range, THEN they'll get around to the serious business of collecting the true tool of slaughter - semi-auto handguns.
*SPOILER ALERT* IT DOESN'T END WELL FOR THE DOOR KICKERS.

Yes, I know about the select fire option. That is why I excluded that from the discussion. I'm trying to find out differences other than the obviously main difference.
I have specifically refrained from making any case for anything. I just asked the question, and perhaps lightly discussed some of the answers.
I've shot a mini-14. but don't know enough about it to comment.
I see you have concerns about the government taking our guns, but that has nothing to do with my question.

These are the words we should be focusing on......

"I've shot a mini-14. but don't know enough about it to comment."

And?

And you dont know shit about firearms.

I'm no expert, but it's not hard to know at least as much as many here who portray themselves as experts.

I'm no expert either but I know far more than you.
My knowledge comes from shooting for the last 48 years.

Cool. 48 years ago I was spending as much time as possible at my families deer camp, getting it ready for the season. We had owned it about ten years at that time if I remember right. Might have been 9 years instead.

 

[daveman]

The M4 is the main rifle used by the US military, and no one could question that it is an assault rifle. The M4 is capable of full automatic fire, and 3 round burst, and the AR15 is not. Of course, it would be illegal, but the AR15 can easily be converted to allow those types of fire. Other than that difference, what makes an M4 an assault weapon, and an AR15 not?

Part of the actual definition of an assault rifle is that it is able to fire in fully automatic mode. AR-15s are simi-automatic and incapable of fully automatic fire. Weapons 101. A very high percentage of all firearms are simi-automatic and not assault anything. This is basic knowledge and essential for any rational discussion of firearms use.

You are absolutely right. That is why I specifically excluded that capability from the discussion in the OP. Are you saying that the M4 and the AR15 are equivalent in everything but the multi-fire capability?

Well if you exclude the ammo then an M-4 is just a spoon. Don't be ridiculous.

Got it. You don't know the answer, so you think a dumb remark will cover up your ignorance.

So you know what the answer is, and you lied when you said you wanted honest debate.

Just like I said. A lame GOTCHA.

Not sure where I said I was looking for any kind of debate in this thread. Please link

Okay, so you didn't want debate. You just wanted someone to parrot your own opinion, which is that AR rifles should be banned.

Wrong again. I just asked a simple question. Don't worry about it if you don't know the answer.

You asked a question, then did not accept any answer offered.

Dishonest.

Sure I did. The Barrels are different. Is there any other material difference other than the multi-fire capability? Legality doesn't present much difference in a hands on comparison in a combat or shooting range, or any other shooting comparison.

"The barrels are different."

Whoopty-shit.

 

[BULLDOG]

Okay....5 pages of answers.....soooo.....now what?

He's waiting for someone to say OMG THERES NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFSRENSE SO AR15S SHOULD BE BANNED HA CHECKMAET GUN NUTS

Sounds exciting. but no. I just asked a question.

Painfully transparent. You can stop pretending now.

Seems I forgot the republican superpower that allows them to spout unsupported crap and expect people to believe it.

So how many of those guns have been used in a commission of a crime?
According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), as of 2017, there were 630,000 machine guns in the U.S.

Cool. If I ever start a thread on that, I'll keep that bit of information in mind.