No one white today owned slaves but most whites today benefitted from the 100 years after slavery.

[Montrovant]

Are you saying racism is only racism when it is backed by law or governmental policy?

No. But what I am saying is that all you who whine about black racism show me where blacks have done the exact same things as whites to deny all opportunities to whites or anyone else. And if so then I wiil agree. If you cannot, then stop claiming that blacks are just as racist or more racist than whites. You can say blacks have prejudices and to that I will not argue, But when it comes to racism I am not just going to agree with a claim made based on false equivalences and amnesia about everything whites have done and keep doing.

Blacks can be just as racist as whites, but they do not have the power to enforce any such racism that whites have enjoyed. That's clear.

No blacks cannot be just as racist as whites. That's the point of talking about laws and policies. For blacks to be just as racist blacks would have to have done and do the same things whites have done and continue doing. Again, do not get prejudice conflated for racism.

I do not define racism as being the laws or policies put in place. Those policies and laws can be racist, certainly, but racism is believing in the superiority or inferiority of a race or races. Anyone can be racist, regardless of whether they have gained advantages from systemic racism in government or society. I think it is you who is conflating systemic racism with all racism. I completely agree that whites have benefited far more than any others from systemic racism; minorities have had little, if any, such advantage. On an individual basis, however, that is immaterial.

So, yes, blacks can be just as racist as whites, who can be just as racist as Native Americans, who can be just as racist as Asians, etc. etc. Any person can be racist, to the same degree any other person can be racist. In the US, whites have, historically, been the ones to benefit from systemic racism. Those are two different things.

If white racism was just calling people names and did not affect us in any other manner, then we can discount laws and policies. However when you enforce your belief in your superiority by making laws or creating policy denying everyone but you because you believe you are superior then you cannot argue racism honestly by saying how you don't base racism on laws and policy. For one to be. but to be just the same as, you have to do the same things. Since the claim of black superiority you think we have has not included the creation of laws and policy denying whites because we believe we are superior and whites are inferior so they do not deserve then blacks are not in fact and in practice as racist as whites.

Racism is not a policy or an action. Racism is a belief. Racism is the belief that a race or races is superior to another race or races.

You seem to define racism as the actions one takes. I do not. If we're operating under different definitions, arguing about it is pointless. How about we just agree to disagree about it and move on? Whether or not one race can be as racist as another isn't an important part of this thread, anyway.

 

[IM2]

No. But what I am saying is that all you who whine about black racism show me where blacks have done the exact same things as whites to deny all opportunities to whites or anyone else. And if so then I wiil agree. If you cannot, then stop claiming that blacks are just as racist or more racist than whites. You can say blacks have prejudices and to that I will not argue, But when it comes to racism I am not just going to agree with a claim made based on false equivalences and amnesia about everything whites have done and keep doing.

Blacks can be just as racist as whites, but they do not have the power to enforce any such racism that whites have enjoyed. That's clear.

No blacks cannot be just as racist as whites. That's the point of talking about laws and policies. For blacks to be just as racist blacks would have to have done and do the same things whites have done and continue doing. Again, do not get prejudice conflated for racism.

I do not define racism as being the laws or policies put in place. Those policies and laws can be racist, certainly, but racism is believing in the superiority or inferiority of a race or races. Anyone can be racist, regardless of whether they have gained advantages from systemic racism in government or society. I think it is you who is conflating systemic racism with all racism. I completely agree that whites have benefited far more than any others from systemic racism; minorities have had little, if any, such advantage. On an individual basis, however, that is immaterial.

So, yes, blacks can be just as racist as whites, who can be just as racist as Native Americans, who can be just as racist as Asians, etc. etc. Any person can be racist, to the same degree any other person can be racist. In the US, whites have, historically, been the ones to benefit from systemic racism. Those are two different things.

Until about 50 years ago, when the nation put in to place pro-black discrimination, as documented by the effective 230 point bonus in Ivy League Admissions.

Just as there is a difference between racism and systemic racism, there is a difference between systemic racism and pro-black discrimination. Laws or policies which grant advantages to blacks are going to be put in place (or have been put in place) based on the idea they are necessary to balance the disadvantages blacks have struggled with under systemic racism. They are not put in place as a sign the government considers blacks to be superior to whites, which is what systemic racism was about, government policy based on the belief that whites are superior to blacks (or other minorities).

I think that is an important difference. I'm not claiming any justification for policies which benefit one race over others, but the rationale behind policies can have its own effect.

There have been no such laws or policies made,put in place or anything else. There are no pro black polices or laws. And I Think that s necessary to understand.

The work to create equal opportunity has been seen by whites as a zero sum game. Whites seem to think that laws created equal opportunities take things away from them.

Blacks fought against discrimination based upon the fact that they were not allowed at all. Regardless of how qualified. Not that 60 percent of blacks were allowed and because we couldn't get 65 percent that we were being discriminated against. This is what whites are calling anti white discrimination and it's ridiculous

 

[IM2]

No. But what I am saying is that all you who whine about black racism show me where blacks have done the exact same things as whites to deny all opportunities to whites or anyone else. And if so then I wiil agree. If you cannot, then stop claiming that blacks are just as racist or more racist than whites. You can say blacks have prejudices and to that I will not argue, But when it comes to racism I am not just going to agree with a claim made based on false equivalences and amnesia about everything whites have done and keep doing.

Blacks can be just as racist as whites, but they do not have the power to enforce any such racism that whites have enjoyed. That's clear.

No blacks cannot be just as racist as whites. That's the point of talking about laws and policies. For blacks to be just as racist blacks would have to have done and do the same things whites have done and continue doing. Again, do not get prejudice conflated for racism.

I do not define racism as being the laws or policies put in place. Those policies and laws can be racist, certainly, but racism is believing in the superiority or inferiority of a race or races. Anyone can be racist, regardless of whether they have gained advantages from systemic racism in government or society. I think it is you who is conflating systemic racism with all racism. I completely agree that whites have benefited far more than any others from systemic racism; minorities have had little, if any, such advantage. On an individual basis, however, that is immaterial.

So, yes, blacks can be just as racist as whites, who can be just as racist as Native Americans, who can be just as racist as Asians, etc. etc. Any person can be racist, to the same degree any other person can be racist. In the US, whites have, historically, been the ones to benefit from systemic racism. Those are two different things.

If white racism was just calling people names and did not affect us in any other manner, then we can discount laws and policies. However when you enforce your belief in your superiority by making laws or creating policy denying everyone but you because you believe you are superior then you cannot argue racism honestly by saying how you don't base racism on laws and policy. For one to be. but to be just the same as, you have to do the same things. Since the claim of black superiority you think we have has not included the creation of laws and policy denying whites because we believe we are superior and whites are inferior so they do not deserve then blacks are not in fact and in practice as racist as whites.

Racism is not a policy or an action. Racism is a belief. Racism is the belief that a race or races is superior to another race or races.

You seem to define racism as the actions one takes. I do not. If we're operating under different definitions, arguing about it is pointless. How about we just agree to disagree about it and move on? Whether or not one race can be as racist as another isn't an important part of this thread, anyway.

I understand what the definition is. I also understand that what a belief can lead to. Whites believing their superiority involved them making laws and policies denying others. For blacks to be the same we have do the same thing. Period. There is nothing to agree to disagree with. You simply hold an errant view because you want tp argue based on the definition but not how that definition has been applied.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Laws in ONLY THE SOUTHEAST. Blacks didn't just live in the old south. So why is it applied to all? Again point out how specifically whites EVERYWHERE are just reaping the benifits from laws ended around 50 years ago. And racism is racism, whatever color you are. You could make the argument that whites aren't as effected when racism is directed at them, they also don't usually give any power to said racism. You don't have to be black to know what racism feels like, and you're not excused from racism being black. If you want TRUE equality, then what is good for the goose is good for the gaggle, and if we determine what one goose does as bad, then it is bad for the gaggle. That is actual justice, no one is above the law, no one is below the law. Does racism still exist, yes. But you cannot apply it to an entire skin color, with out being racist yourself. You are not being intellectually honest when you do so. There is no collective boot from one group of a skin color keeping another entire skin color down. It's such an over generalization, that the claim is just outrageous. There is a carrot and a stick coming from government, the carrot is dependency, and the stick is withdrawing of that dependency. There's also the problem of a large portion of mellianials who are now adults, being in arrested development in the adolscent mindset, trying to figure out adulthood, but not wanting any of the responsibilities that come with it, always being used to constant guidance, and are usually lost without said guidance. Those two things are a bad recipe. That is not coming from any one skin color. People are responsible for their own actions. More importantly parents are responsible to raise their kids with responsibility. The government cannot do that, the village cannot do that, schools cannot do that, and a politician cannot do that. To blame an entire race, for the plight of a portion of another race, is flat out wrong. The personal decisions that a person makes effects their own life more than anyone else around them can effect it. Which is what makes you wrong on this issue.

Redlining and restrictive covenants were nationwide fool. LAWS that ended 50 year ago only ended on paper stupid ass. Things just did not magically stop happening.. There is no "poof we are all equal now". For white people who were kids in the suburbs black could not live in due to these covenants living in houses finance by the FHA loans who are now grown cannot see how that benefitted their white asses. Whites have depended upon government for the entirety of American history idiot.

I am right to blame whites for what has happened. Because whites are the ones who did it.

Now to make this short, you talk about blacks being racists.Start showing laws and policies made by blacks that have denied whites of rights. If you cannot shut the **** up.

The laws are unenforceable according to your own source...

AA, Asians have to outperform both whites and blacks, but I guess that doesn't count in your book? That law is nationwide. AA is an antidiscrimination law, that discriminates by nature...which is what happens when you place quotas based solely on race.

Wrong. There are no quotas and Asians do not have to outperform anyone. I know far too many Asians who are not ignorant. But for those who are, Asians included in Affirmative action. AA does not discriminate, and when you are 5 percent if the population and 20 percent of those admitted into Ivy league schools you damn sure are not being discriminated against. So if you are Asian understand this, AN SAT SCORE IS NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN THE SOLE DETERMINAT OF COLLEGE ADMISSION!

Stop being dumb asses and falling for the race baiting whites are doing. You will not be admitted into ANY university if whites like these here get their ******* way and end all equal rights laws or policies Without that, if Asians are not' admitted, you will have no defense or help.

Last, this is from the Princeton Study correll keeps trying to use to argue his lie.

The penalty for scoring less than 1200 on the SAT is significantly greater for African-American and Hispanic students than the penalty for white students who score less than 1200 (Model 2). Similarly, the reward (i.e., increased likelihood of admission) that is produced by scoring more than 1300 is significantly smaller for African-American and especially for Hispanic students than the reward for white students who score more than 1300.

SAT scores for white and Asian candidates seem to receive the same emphasis.

Do you see that last line? Asians are not getting penalized as heavily as blacks and Hispanics for scoring less than 1200 on the SAT and Asians get rewarded more than blacks and Hispanics for scores over 1300.

AA does not discriminate, and when you are 5 percent if the population and 20 percent of those admitted into Ivy league schools you damn sure are not being discriminated against.

If 25% of qualifying students are Asian but only 20% of accepted students, you are being discriminated against.

Since that's not happening, then it's not discrimination.

Since that's not happening,

Is that why Asian attendance numbers increased when AA was disallowed?

then it's not discrimination

Obviously it happened and it's discrimination.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not lo

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not look down on others, I have no animosity toward others because of their race, but you do.

Racist shmashist. Blacks need to buckle up and lay off the excuses. The high black on black murder rate is purely of their own making, not from abstractions of racism.

You can't understand why you get called a racist for making such comments when we look at the white murder rate is just as high. .A white person will be killed by another white person approximately 90 percent of the time. Concern yourself with the white on white murder rate because you don't have a cue as to what has created in the black community. I do and am not going to waste my time arguing with you about it,

when we look at the white murder rate is just as high.

Wow, you're really bad at math.

My math is accurate.

My math is accurate.

Great.
Post the black murder rate and the white murder rate.

I'll be happy to point our your error.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You have such an angry attitude toward white people, I would not blame any white people for reacting negatively to anyone like you, Perhaps you confuse what you perceive as racism what is actually a reaction to a black person's negative behavior. I would not hire nor rent to anyone, regardless of race, with the kind of attitude you have.

This thread is not about your opinion of my attitude based upon you being white and not liking me talking about continuing white racism. This is a thread about policies that have benefitted whites since slavery.

Your pretense that such policies have not completely reversed over the course of the last 50 years, shows that you are intellectually dishonest, and your conclusions are bs.

There has been no complete reversal. The only bs conclusions are yours. And this is why.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT POLCIES MADE BY WHITES!

Teflon Theory of History

The Teflon Theory of American History says that anything that took place over 30 years ago is Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on the present. Or not much. Unless it was something good like the light bulb or the Declaration of Independence. Therefore those who make a big deal of the bad stuff in the past, like slavery, are Living in the Past and need to Get Over It.

For example:

Jim Crow laws were overturned by the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s. Therefore according to Teflon Theory the Jim Crow period is now Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on how White Americans alive today think and act. None whatsoever. Or not much. So racism is pretty much dead.

Instead of Jim Crow’s effect slowly weakening over time like you would expect, Teflon Theory would have you suppose that it just disappeared like magic one afternoon sometime in the late 1960s. Even though many White Americans alive now were alive back in Jim Crow times. Even though many others were brought up and shaped by those who were alive back then: parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, teachers, writers, film directors, television producers, news editors and so on.

Few sit on a mountain top to come up with their beliefs all on their own. Instead most people pretty much go along with what everyone else already believes with maybe a few twists here and there. Such beliefs come from the past.

So then why is Teflon Theory believed?

• Because of how American history is taught:
  • American history is taught as dates and people and facts that have little to do with each other. Sometimes the Effects of the the Civil War or Industrialization are studied, for example, but not so for the evil stuff – like how slavery and genocide led to present-day White American wealth, power and racism.
  • American history as taught rarely comes up to the present day. History becomes something in the past, in a book, not something we live in right now.
• Because of the needs of White American self-image:
  • White Americans want to think they are Basically Good and their society is Basically Just. Without Teflon Theory that becomes laughable since it flies in the face of history, common sense and human nature.
  • White Americans avoid honestly facing up to their past because deep down they know it is ugly. Teflon Theory acts as a guard against having to take it seriously.
• Because middle-class whites are protected from the ugly present:
  • Those who live in Apple-pie America rarely see first-hand the injustice that their comfortable lives are built on. And what injustice they do see on occasion, like black ghettos or wars on television fought overseas in their name, they have already learned to not see as injustice. But being protected from the ugly present makes the ugly past seem like another world, like it truly is ancient history with no bearing on the present.

How does redlining benefit me today?

Coward.

How did redlining benefit whites?

That's what YOU were asked to explain.

Coward.

That's what YOU were asked to explain.

I can't explain how it benefits me today.
Why don't you actually attempt to back up your claim?
Or run away....again...coward.

 

[Montrovant]

Blacks can be just as racist as whites, but they do not have the power to enforce any such racism that whites have enjoyed. That's clear.

No blacks cannot be just as racist as whites. That's the point of talking about laws and policies. For blacks to be just as racist blacks would have to have done and do the same things whites have done and continue doing. Again, do not get prejudice conflated for racism.

I do not define racism as being the laws or policies put in place. Those policies and laws can be racist, certainly, but racism is believing in the superiority or inferiority of a race or races. Anyone can be racist, regardless of whether they have gained advantages from systemic racism in government or society. I think it is you who is conflating systemic racism with all racism. I completely agree that whites have benefited far more than any others from systemic racism; minorities have had little, if any, such advantage. On an individual basis, however, that is immaterial.

So, yes, blacks can be just as racist as whites, who can be just as racist as Native Americans, who can be just as racist as Asians, etc. etc. Any person can be racist, to the same degree any other person can be racist. In the US, whites have, historically, been the ones to benefit from systemic racism. Those are two different things.

If white racism was just calling people names and did not affect us in any other manner, then we can discount laws and policies. However when you enforce your belief in your superiority by making laws or creating policy denying everyone but you because you believe you are superior then you cannot argue racism honestly by saying how you don't base racism on laws and policy. For one to be. but to be just the same as, you have to do the same things. Since the claim of black superiority you think we have has not included the creation of laws and policy denying whites because we believe we are superior and whites are inferior so they do not deserve then blacks are not in fact and in practice as racist as whites.

Racism is not a policy or an action. Racism is a belief. Racism is the belief that a race or races is superior to another race or races.

You seem to define racism as the actions one takes. I do not. If we're operating under different definitions, arguing about it is pointless. How about we just agree to disagree about it and move on? Whether or not one race can be as racist as another isn't an important part of this thread, anyway.

I understand what the definition is. I also understand that what a belief can lead to. Whites believing their superiority involved them making laws and policies denying others. For blacks to be the same we have do the same thing. Period. There is nothing to agree to disagree with. You simply hold an errant view because you want tp argue based on the definition but not how that definition has been applied.

I hold an errant view? What a belief can lead to is not the same as the belief itself.

If a white racist in the US were to move to another country, where whites are a minority and have never held an advantage over other races, would that person be less of a racist, simply because of where they now reside? Let's assume that in Japan, this white racist would find laws and policies specifically designed to give advantage to Japanese Asians over any other race or ethnicity. The white racist continues to believe that whites are the superior race, that has not changed at all. You seem to be saying that, because this white racist is no longer supported by racist policies, the person is less of a racist.

I do not agree with that view of racism. I think that is changing the definition of the word, perhaps as a way to ensure that it only applies to a particular group (in this case, whites). My understanding of the definition of racism is that it is about what a person believes, not the actions a person takes. Those actions can and often do result from their racist belief, but they are not integral to being a racist. A person can be a horrible racist and no one else may ever know, because they don't act upon it.

As I said, you seem to believe racism has a different definition, that it is intrinsically linked to the laws and policies of the society in which a person lives. I do not agree with that definition. If we are going to operate under different definitions, arguing about the word is not going to be useful.

I have freely admitted that there is a long history of whites creating racist policies and laws in this country. That does not change my view that members of any race can be just as racist as members of any other race.

 

[IM2]

No blacks cannot be just as racist as whites. That's the point of talking about laws and policies. For blacks to be just as racist blacks would have to have done and do the same things whites have done and continue doing. Again, do not get prejudice conflated for racism.

I do not define racism as being the laws or policies put in place. Those policies and laws can be racist, certainly, but racism is believing in the superiority or inferiority of a race or races. Anyone can be racist, regardless of whether they have gained advantages from systemic racism in government or society. I think it is you who is conflating systemic racism with all racism. I completely agree that whites have benefited far more than any others from systemic racism; minorities have had little, if any, such advantage. On an individual basis, however, that is immaterial.

So, yes, blacks can be just as racist as whites, who can be just as racist as Native Americans, who can be just as racist as Asians, etc. etc. Any person can be racist, to the same degree any other person can be racist. In the US, whites have, historically, been the ones to benefit from systemic racism. Those are two different things.

If white racism was just calling people names and did not affect us in any other manner, then we can discount laws and policies. However when you enforce your belief in your superiority by making laws or creating policy denying everyone but you because you believe you are superior then you cannot argue racism honestly by saying how you don't base racism on laws and policy. For one to be. but to be just the same as, you have to do the same things. Since the claim of black superiority you think we have has not included the creation of laws and policy denying whites because we believe we are superior and whites are inferior so they do not deserve then blacks are not in fact and in practice as racist as whites.

Racism is not a policy or an action. Racism is a belief. Racism is the belief that a race or races is superior to another race or races.

You seem to define racism as the actions one takes. I do not. If we're operating under different definitions, arguing about it is pointless. How about we just agree to disagree about it and move on? Whether or not one race can be as racist as another isn't an important part of this thread, anyway.

I understand what the definition is. I also understand that what a belief can lead to. Whites believing their superiority involved them making laws and policies denying others. For blacks to be the same we have do the same thing. Period. There is nothing to agree to disagree with. You simply hold an errant view because you want tp argue based on the definition but not how that definition has been applied.

I hold an errant view? What a belief can lead to is not the same as the belief itself.

If a white racist in the US were to move to another country, where whites are a minority and have never held an advantage over other races, would that person be less of a racist, simply because of where they now reside? Let's assume that in Japan, this white racist would find laws and policies specifically designed to give advantage to Japanese Asians over any other race or ethnicity. The white racist continues to believe that whites are the superior race, that has not changed at all. You seem to be saying that, because this white racist is no longer supported by racist policies, the person is less of a racist.

I do not agree with that view of racism. I think that is changing the definition of the word, perhaps as a way to ensure that it only applies to a particular group (in this case, whites). My understanding of the definition of racism is that it is about what a person believes, not the actions a person takes. Those actions can and often do result from their racist belief, but they are not integral to being a racist. A person can be a horrible racist and no one else may ever know, because they don't act upon it.

As I said, you seem to believe racism has a different definition, that it is intrinsically linked to the laws and policies of the society in which a person lives. I do not agree with that definition. If we are going to operate under different definitions, arguing about the word is not going to be useful.

I have freely admitted that there is a long history of whites creating racist policies and laws in this country. That does not change my view that members of any race can be just as racist as members of any other race.

Like I say your views are errant. We agree on the definition of the word racism. If blacks have not created racist laws and policies denying whites of rights and opportunities because they believe they are superior then blacks cannot be just as racist. It's that simple.

Now the OP and thread is about how laws and policies based on in a belief of white superiority allowed whites benefits after slavery.

 

[MizMolly]

You have such an angry attitude toward white people, I would not blame any white people for reacting negatively to anyone like you, Perhaps you confuse what you perceive as racism what is actually a reaction to a black person's negative behavior. I would not hire nor rent to anyone, regardless of race, with the kind of attitude you have.

This thread is not about your opinion of my attitude based upon you being white and not liking me talking about continuing white racism. This is a thread about policies that have benefitted whites since slavery.

Your attitude and distorted view of whites has everything to do with all of your posts,.

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not look down on others, I have no animosity toward others because of their race, but you do.

You apparently think you are superior to blacks. You think you know more about being black than blacks do, You think you can tell blacks what our problems are and are quick to dispute what a black persons says is the problem often telling me how wrong I am about things I have seen and lived based upon your opinion You think you can tell blacks how they are to do things ad how we should see things.. You made the comment about my attitude. This is a common racist retort to someone black talking about white racism. You think you can tell me how I am because I post angry responses after reading a bunch of racist bullshit from whites and arrogant crap from whites like you. You say noting to the obvious racist postings by whites here and only jump on me making claims of how I hate whites or am a racist. Then you assume I hate all whites. You tell me I perceive racism. I don't perceive shit. I am 56 years old lady and have faced every form of racism., I know what l racism is , I don't have to guess. But since you think you know better than me about such matters because you are white and that means your opinion is the only one that can be right.

So like I said, there are millions of whites out there who are not racists. Whites who don think they can tell blacks how they are wrong about racism. Whites who do not begin to think they can tell blacks how they should think or how racism is over. They don't tell us how we ae just perceiving racism. . For some reason ignorance has allowed you to think that I have never been around whites, don't have white friends, have never worked with whites, or that I have never socialized in any way shape or form with white people. And that is your major malfunction, I grew up ins a town that is 90 percent white. I went to a university that was 87 percent white. I have worked with white people. I have sat on committees and in community groups with whites, I've dated white women. I was married to a white woman. I know when I see or read racism Molly.

All the things you said abut me

You have such an angry attitude toward white people, I would not blame any white people for reacting negatively to anyone like you, Perhaps you confuse what you perceive as racism what is actually a reaction to a black person's negative behavior. I would not hire nor rent to anyone, regardless of race, with the kind of attitude you have.

This thread is not about your opinion of my attitude based upon you being white and not liking me talking about continuing white racism. This is a thread about policies that have benefitted whites since slavery.

Your attitude and distorted view of whites has everything to do with all of your posts,.

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not look down on others, I have no animosity toward others because of their race, but you do.

You apparently think you are superior to blacks. You think you know more about being black than blacks do, You think you can tell blacks what our problems are and are quick to dispute what a black persons says is the problem often telling me how wrong I am about things I have seen and lived based upon your opinion You think you can tell blacks how they are to do things ad how we should see things.. You made the comment about my attitude. This is a common racist retort to someone black talking about white racism. You think you can tell me how I am because I post angry responses after reading a bunch of racist bullshit from whites and arrogant crap from whites like you. You say noting to the obvious racist postings by whites here and only jump on me making claims of how I hate whites or am a racist. Then you assume I hate all whites. You tell me I perceive racism. I don't perceive shit. I am 56 years old lady and have faced every form of racism., I know what l racism is , I don't have to guess. But since you think you know better than me about such matters because you are white and that means your opinion is the only one that can be right.

So like I said, there are millions of whites out there who are not racists. Whites who don think they can tell blacks how they are wrong about racism. Whites who do not begin to think they can tell blacks how they should think or how racism is over. They don't tell us how we ae just perceiving racism. . For some reason ignorance has allowed you to think that I have never been around whites, don't have white friends, have never worked with whites, or that I have never socialized in any way shape or form with white people. And that is your major malfunction, I grew up ins a town that is 90 percent white. I went to a university that was 87 percent white. I have worked with white people. I have sat on committees and in community groups with whites, I've dated white women. I was married to a white woman. I know when I see or read racism Molly.

I do not think I am superior and you will not find any evidence of it. Where did I suggest that I know more about blacks? You are the one who perceives to know all there is to know about whites. I never said nor implied that I know all about blacks. You are the one who is trying to tell whites what it is like to be white, when you are not white you do not know. So, you were married to a white woman, so? My niece is married to a black man, a wonderful man. This is all irrelevant because people are people.

 

[sakinago]

1920s–1948: Racially Restrictive Covenants

Racially restrictive covenants refer to contractual agreements that prohibit the purchase, lease, or occupation of a piece of property by a particular group of people, usually African Americans. Racially restrictive covenants were not only mutual agreements between property owners in a neighborhood not to sell to certain people, but were also agreements enforced through the cooperation of real estate boards and neighborhood associations. Racially restrictive covenants became common after 1926 after the U.S. Supreme Court decision, Corrigan v. Buckley, which validated their use.

Now most of you will claim that since these were made illegal om 1948 that you did not benefit. No so fast.

Restrictive Covenants Stubbornly Stay on the Books

By MOTOKO RICH

APRIL 21, 2005

NEALIE PITTS was shopping for a house for her son three years ago when she spotted a for-sale sign in front of a modest brick bungalow here. When she stopped to ask the owner about it, at first she thought she misheard his answer.

"This house is going to be sold to whites only," said the owner, Rufus Matthews, according to court papers filed by Ms. Pitts, who is African-American. "It's not for colored."

Mr. Matthews later testified before the Virginia Fair Housing Board that he believed a clause in his deed prohibited him from selling to a black buyer. A 1944 deed on his property restricts owners from selling to "any person not of the Caucasian race."

Such clauses have been unenforceable for nearly 60 years. But historians who track such things say that thousands of racist deed restrictions, as well as restrictive covenants governing homeowner associations, survive in communities across the country.

This situation happened in 2002.

Such clauses have been unenforceable for nearly 60 years. But historians who track such things say that thousands of racist deed restrictions, as well as restrictive covenants governing homeowner associations, survive in communities across the country.

So in 2005 this was still going on. And whites benefitted from it.

Restrictive Covenants Stubbornly Stay on the Books

This is a HOA, a private organization. I hate HOAs and would never live in one if the house was for free. Some of the most exclusive HOAs are in the most liberal cities, and while they might state race isn't a issue. They still put you through a rigorous interview process. Still it's a private organization. Your source even states that the LAWS are unenforceable. On top of that, this private organization only effected 1 person. I don't think there are any white or Asian members of the black panther party, or any similar orginizations. Again 1 person not an entire race. Is it fucked up, yes. One more reason not to live in a place where your neighbors are required to be up in your business about your own damn property and life.

Well the point here is that this did not and does not just happen to one person. There are whites and Asians in the NAACP and Black lives matter, The Urban League, etc..

There are not all that many blacks in the new black panther party, the old black panthers don't exist anymore and the remaining living members denounce the new black panther party. Now go run along with your false equivalences.

Not a false equivalency, does the black panther party not have the right to be exclusive to other races should they choose to do so? Which was my point, pretty clearly, which somehow went way over your head.

 

[sakinago]

I didn't chose my race, and it makes me wonder: Did you choose your race? OK, of course not. This whole industry of white guilt, it's intriguing I have to be absolved of something that I actually gained NOTHING from, but are given the onus OF? No, Blacks are intellectualizing their own failures. Lets get real here. Blacks self murder, self hate, and plenty of other peoples over the years got over injustices and racism. What is REALLY going on with blacks?

Lets get real here, you are a white female You are part of the demographic that has benefitted the most from Affirmative Action. Besides that you benefited from past racist policies, as well as systemic racism and covert racist practices that happen every day in this nation now.
.

Oh really? Nice try. it's an abstraction, if not false. Your assertions are just that, and there is no proof I can
see.. I realized today, there are two types of people. Stupid or smart. That's it, race or gender is moot. My situation is none of your business. But I see people that accept the norm, and those that surpass. Black culture seems to ...demand people conform to the lowest common denominator. Who's fault is that?

Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone
Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone | TIME.com

Now shut the **** up.

...what that doesn't somehow make up for the point that Asians have to out preform whites, and blacks. How does that logic work? That's like saying "well I stole from this person, but hey I didn't steal from that person." What?

 

[sakinago]

No. But what I am saying is that all you who whine about black racism show me where blacks have done the exact same things as whites to deny all opportunities to whites or anyone else. And if so then I wiil agree. If you cannot, then stop claiming that blacks are just as racist or more racist than whites. You can say blacks have prejudices and to that I will not argue, But when it comes to racism I am not just going to agree with a claim made based on false equivalences and amnesia about everything whites have done and keep doing.

Blacks can be just as racist as whites, but they do not have the power to enforce any such racism that whites have enjoyed. That's clear.

No blacks cannot be just as racist as whites. That's the point of talking about laws and policies. For blacks to be just as racist blacks would have to have done and do the same things whites have done and continue doing. Again, do not get prejudice conflated for racism.

I do not define racism as being the laws or policies put in place. Those policies and laws can be racist, certainly, but racism is believing in the superiority or inferiority of a race or races. Anyone can be racist, regardless of whether they have gained advantages from systemic racism in government or society. I think it is you who is conflating systemic racism with all racism. I completely agree that whites have benefited far more than any others from systemic racism; minorities have had little, if any, such advantage. On an individual basis, however, that is immaterial.

So, yes, blacks can be just as racist as whites, who can be just as racist as Native Americans, who can be just as racist as Asians, etc. etc. Any person can be racist, to the same degree any other person can be racist. In the US, whites have, historically, been the ones to benefit from systemic racism. Those are two different things.

Until about 50 years ago, when the nation put in to place pro-black discrimination, as documented by the effective 230 point bonus in Ivy League Admissions.

Just as there is a difference between racism and systemic racism, there is a difference between systemic racism and pro-black discrimination. Laws or policies which grant advantages to blacks are going to be put in place (or have been put in place) based on the idea they are necessary to balance the disadvantages blacks have struggled with under systemic racism. They are not put in place as a sign the government considers blacks to be superior to whites, which is what systemic racism was about, government policy based on the belief that whites are superior to blacks (or other minorities).

I think that is an important difference. I'm not claiming any justification for policies which benefit one race over others, but the rationale behind policies can have its own effect.

That's exactly what AA does. In England it's called positive discrimination act, which is more accurate nomenclature.

 

[MaryL]

I am a voyager in the this great adventure called life. I am trying to see new things and listen to people and their ideas. "Whites benefited from slavery", I am still trying to grasp THAT. How so? I am white, lost my full time job, health insurance, and now working hand to mouth. What is IT I gained by the unfortunate act of being WHITE? The whole concept behind this thread is a chimera. Subjective as hell to the point of being meaningless.

 

[Correll]

Laws in ONLY THE SOUTHEAST. Blacks didn't just live in the old south. So why is it applied to all? Again point out how specifically whites EVERYWHERE are just reaping the benifits from laws ended around 50 years ago. And racism is racism, whatever color you are. You could make the argument that whites aren't as effected when racism is directed at them, they also don't usually give any power to said racism. You don't have to be black to know what racism feels like, and you're not excused from racism being black. If you want TRUE equality, then what is good for the goose is good for the gaggle, and if we determine what one goose does as bad, then it is bad for the gaggle. That is actual justice, no one is above the law, no one is below the law. Does racism still exist, yes. But you cannot apply it to an entire skin color, with out being racist yourself. You are not being intellectually honest when you do so. There is no collective boot from one group of a skin color keeping another entire skin color down. It's such an over generalization, that the claim is just outrageous. There is a carrot and a stick coming from government, the carrot is dependency, and the stick is withdrawing of that dependency. There's also the problem of a large portion of mellianials who are now adults, being in arrested development in the adolscent mindset, trying to figure out adulthood, but not wanting any of the responsibilities that come with it, always being used to constant guidance, and are usually lost without said guidance. Those two things are a bad recipe. That is not coming from any one skin color. People are responsible for their own actions. More importantly parents are responsible to raise their kids with responsibility. The government cannot do that, the village cannot do that, schools cannot do that, and a politician cannot do that. To blame an entire race, for the plight of a portion of another race, is flat out wrong. The personal decisions that a person makes effects their own life more than anyone else around them can effect it. Which is what makes you wrong on this issue.

Redlining and restrictive covenants were nationwide fool. LAWS that ended 50 year ago only ended on paper stupid ass. Things just did not magically stop happening.. There is no "poof we are all equal now". For white people who were kids in the suburbs black could not live in due to these covenants living in houses finance by the FHA loans who are now grown cannot see how that benefitted their white asses. Whites have depended upon government for the entirety of American history idiot.

I am right to blame whites for what has happened. Because whites are the ones who did it.

Now to make this short, you talk about blacks being racists.Start showing laws and policies made by blacks that have denied whites of rights. If you cannot shut the **** up.

You have such an angry attitude toward white people, I would not blame any white people for reacting negatively to anyone like you, Perhaps you confuse what you perceive as racism what is actually a reaction to a black person's negative behavior. I would not hire nor rent to anyone, regardless of race, with the kind of attitude you have.

This thread is not about your opinion of my attitude based upon you being white and not liking me talking about continuing white racism. This is a thread about policies that have benefitted whites since slavery.

Your pretense that such policies have not completely reversed over the course of the last 50 years, shows that you are intellectually dishonest, and your conclusions are bs.

There has been no complete reversal. The only bs conclusions are yours. And this is why.

YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT POLCIES MADE BY WHITES!

Teflon Theory of History

The Teflon Theory of American History says that anything that took place over 30 years ago is Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on the present. Or not much. Unless it was something good like the light bulb or the Declaration of Independence. Therefore those who make a big deal of the bad stuff in the past, like slavery, are Living in the Past and need to Get Over It.

For example:

Jim Crow laws were overturned by the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s. Therefore according to Teflon Theory the Jim Crow period is now Ancient History. It has Absolutely No Effect on how White Americans alive today think and act. None whatsoever. Or not much. So racism is pretty much dead.

Instead of Jim Crow’s effect slowly weakening over time like you would expect, Teflon Theory would have you suppose that it just disappeared like magic one afternoon sometime in the late 1960s. Even though many White Americans alive now were alive back in Jim Crow times. Even though many others were brought up and shaped by those who were alive back then: parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, teachers, writers, film directors, television producers, news editors and so on.

Few sit on a mountain top to come up with their beliefs all on their own. Instead most people pretty much go along with what everyone else already believes with maybe a few twists here and there. Such beliefs come from the past.

So then why is Teflon Theory believed?

• Because of how American history is taught:
  • American history is taught as dates and people and facts that have little to do with each other. Sometimes the Effects of the the Civil War or Industrialization are studied, for example, but not so for the evil stuff – like how slavery and genocide led to present-day White American wealth, power and racism.
  • American history as taught rarely comes up to the present day. History becomes something in the past, in a book, not something we live in right now.
• Because of the needs of White American self-image:
  • White Americans want to think they are Basically Good and their society is Basically Just. Without Teflon Theory that becomes laughable since it flies in the face of history, common sense and human nature.
  • White Americans avoid honestly facing up to their past because deep down they know it is ugly. Teflon Theory acts as a guard against having to take it seriously.
• Because middle-class whites are protected from the ugly present:
  • Those who live in Apple-pie America rarely see first-hand the injustice that their comfortable lives are built on. And what injustice they do see on occasion, like black ghettos or wars on television fought overseas in their name, they have already learned to not see as injustice. But being protected from the ugly present makes the ugly past seem like another world, like it truly is ancient history with no bearing on the present.

That fact that the policy of AA, and disparate impact theory were made by whites in no way means they are not discrimination in favor of blacks.


Your continued implication that having a white involved means that the white is looking out for white interests is the completely unsupported, by anything other than your constant repetition.


We are not operating in any "teflon" scenario, where the impact of a policy is expected to be immediate. IT HAS BEEN OVER 50 YEARS.

That's a long time for a policy reversal to have effect.

 

[Correll]

No. But what I am saying is that all you who whine about black racism show me where blacks have done the exact same things as whites to deny all opportunities to whites or anyone else. And if so then I wiil agree. If you cannot, then stop claiming that blacks are just as racist or more racist than whites. You can say blacks have prejudices and to that I will not argue, But when it comes to racism I am not just going to agree with a claim made based on false equivalences and amnesia about everything whites have done and keep doing.

Blacks can be just as racist as whites, but they do not have the power to enforce any such racism that whites have enjoyed. That's clear.

No blacks cannot be just as racist as whites. That's the point of talking about laws and policies. For blacks to be just as racist blacks would have to have done and do the same things whites have done and continue doing. Again, do not get prejudice conflated for racism.

I do not define racism as being the laws or policies put in place. Those policies and laws can be racist, certainly, but racism is believing in the superiority or inferiority of a race or races. Anyone can be racist, regardless of whether they have gained advantages from systemic racism in government or society. I think it is you who is conflating systemic racism with all racism. I completely agree that whites have benefited far more than any others from systemic racism; minorities have had little, if any, such advantage. On an individual basis, however, that is immaterial.

So, yes, blacks can be just as racist as whites, who can be just as racist as Native Americans, who can be just as racist as Asians, etc. etc. Any person can be racist, to the same degree any other person can be racist. In the US, whites have, historically, been the ones to benefit from systemic racism. Those are two different things.

Until about 50 years ago, when the nation put in to place pro-black discrimination, as documented by the effective 230 point bonus in Ivy League Admissions.

You are a true idiot. The was never any pro black discrimination. And as you keep getting shown your argument about that 230 points is garbage.

Anti-white discrimination has been documented with hard evidence. YOur denial is relevant only in what it reveals about you as a person and as an academic.

 

[Correll]

This thread is not about your opinion of my attitude based upon you being white and not liking me talking about continuing white racism. This is a thread about policies that have benefitted whites since slavery.

Your attitude and distorted view of whites has everything to do with all of your posts,.

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not lo

This thread is not about your opinion of my attitude based upon you being white and not liking me talking about continuing white racism. This is a thread about policies that have benefitted whites since slavery.

Your attitude and distorted view of whites has everything to do with all of your posts,.

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not look down on others, I have no animosity toward others because of their race, but you do.

Racist shmashist. Blacks need to buckle up and lay off the excuses. The high black on black murder rate is purely of their own making, not from abstractions of racism.

You can't understand why you get called a racist for making such comments when we look at the white murder rate is just as high. .A white person will be killed by another white person approximately 90 percent of the time. Concern yourself with the white on white murder rate because you don't have a cue as to what has created in the black community. I do and am not going to waste my time arguing with you about it,

Only a liar or a fool would claim that that white murder rate is just as high as the black murder rate.

 

[Correll]

I didn't chose my race, and it makes me wonder: Did you choose your race? OK, of course not. This whole industry of white guilt, it's intriguing I have to be absolved of something that I actually gained NOTHING from, but are given the onus OF? No, Blacks are intellectualizing their own failures. Lets get real here. Blacks self murder, self hate, and plenty of other peoples over the years got over injustices and racism. What is REALLY going on with blacks?

Lets get real here, you are a white female You are part of the demographic that has benefitted the most from Affirmative Action. Besides that you benefited from past racist policies, as well as systemic racism and covert racist practices that happen every day in this nation now.
.

Oh really? Nice try. it's an abstraction, if not false. Your assertions are just that, and there is no proof I can
see.. I realized today, there are two types of people. Stupid or smart. That's it, race or gender is moot. My situation is none of your business. But I see people that accept the norm, and those that surpass. Black culture seems to ...demand people conform to the lowest common denominator. Who's fault is that?

Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone
Affirmative Action Has Helped White Women More Than Anyone | TIME.com

Now shut the **** up.

Now that's some idiotic studies that pretend that there is only ONE variable in the world, ie AA.

 

[koshergrl]

Your attitude and distorted view of whites has everything to do with all of your posts,.

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not lo

Your attitude and distorted view of whites has everything to do with all of your posts,.

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not look down on others, I have no animosity toward others because of their race, but you do.

Racist shmashist. Blacks need to buckle up and lay off the excuses. The high black on black murder rate is purely of their own making, not from abstractions of racism.

You can't understand why you get called a racist for making such comments when we look at the white murder rate is just as high. .A white person will be killed by another white person approximately 90 percent of the time. Concern yourself with the white on white murder rate because you don't have a cue as to what has created in the black community. I do and am not going to waste my time arguing with you about it,

Only a liar or a fool would claim that that white murder rate is just as high as the black murder rate.

You have to understand what the word "murder rate" means, and very few of the militant racists here do.

 

[Correll]

No. But what I am saying is that all you who whine about black racism show me where blacks have done the exact same things as whites to deny all opportunities to whites or anyone else. And if so then I wiil agree. If you cannot, then stop claiming that blacks are just as racist or more racist than whites. You can say blacks have prejudices and to that I will not argue, But when it comes to racism I am not just going to agree with a claim made based on false equivalences and amnesia about everything whites have done and keep doing.

Blacks can be just as racist as whites, but they do not have the power to enforce any such racism that whites have enjoyed. That's clear.

No blacks cannot be just as racist as whites. That's the point of talking about laws and policies. For blacks to be just as racist blacks would have to have done and do the same things whites have done and continue doing. Again, do not get prejudice conflated for racism.

I do not define racism as being the laws or policies put in place. Those policies and laws can be racist, certainly, but racism is believing in the superiority or inferiority of a race or races. Anyone can be racist, regardless of whether they have gained advantages from systemic racism in government or society. I think it is you who is conflating systemic racism with all racism. I completely agree that whites have benefited far more than any others from systemic racism; minorities have had little, if any, such advantage. On an individual basis, however, that is immaterial.

So, yes, blacks can be just as racist as whites, who can be just as racist as Native Americans, who can be just as racist as Asians, etc. etc. Any person can be racist, to the same degree any other person can be racist. In the US, whites have, historically, been the ones to benefit from systemic racism. Those are two different things.

Until about 50 years ago, when the nation put in to place pro-black discrimination, as documented by the effective 230 point bonus in Ivy League Admissions.

Just as there is a difference between racism and systemic racism, there is a difference between systemic racism and pro-black discrimination. Laws or policies which grant advantages to blacks are going to be put in place (or have been put in place) based on the idea they are necessary to balance the disadvantages blacks have struggled with under systemic racism. They are not put in place as a sign the government considers blacks to be superior to whites, which is what systemic racism was about, government policy based on the belief that whites are superior to blacks (or other minorities).

I think that is an important difference. I'm not claiming any justification for policies which benefit one race over others, but the rationale behind policies can have its own effect.

You are quibbling over distinctions that make no difference.

 

[Correll]

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not lo

I really don't have a distorted view of whites. I know there are millions of whites who are not racists, then there are you guys.

There you go again, calling me a racist., How am I racist? I do not think I am superior to others, I do not look down on others, I have no animosity toward others because of their race, but you do.

Racist shmashist. Blacks need to buckle up and lay off the excuses. The high black on black murder rate is purely of their own making, not from abstractions of racism.

You can't understand why you get called a racist for making such comments when we look at the white murder rate is just as high. .A white person will be killed by another white person approximately 90 percent of the time. Concern yourself with the white on white murder rate because you don't have a cue as to what has created in the black community. I do and am not going to waste my time arguing with you about it,

Only a liar or a fool would claim that that white murder rate is just as high as the black murder rate.

You have to understand what the word "murder rate" means, and very few of the militant racists here do.

I refuse to believe that they are so ******* stupid that they cannot grasp the concept of "rate".


THey are liars.