No one white today owned slaves but most whites today benefitted from the 100 years after slavery.

[IM2]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

 

[Unkotare]

.... I said that blacks get the 230 points because whites already had them. .....

Which you failed to quantify.

 

[Unkotare]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

Do you think that treatment and preferences for jobs, housing, college admissions, etc. should be based on skin color, or merit - for everyone? What are your personal principles in this regard?

 

[Unkotare]

.... Historically whites have had advantages and preferences because they are white. .....

And is that right, or wrong?

 

[Mudda]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

Do you think that treatment and preferences for jobs, housing, college admissions, etc. should be based on skin color, or merit - for everyone? What are your personal principles in this regard?

He wants blacks to have an advantage because he knows they can't compete on an even level.

 

[Mudda]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

Whites built the colleges, so you want black privileges, go build some black colleges. Why does ****** have to give you everything?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Legacy admissions are given to primarily white students

What percentage of all admissions are white legacies? Give me some hard data.

The trend remained for students who were accepted into top 25 schools (as ranked by the US News & World Report), where legacy students scored 2133 versus 2156 for nonlegacy students.

What were the scores for the black students who were accepted?

You know the only places hat suggest blacks are getting 230 points

How many do they get?

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities. How about we do that? Show me a reduction In white college graduates because of these programs. How about we do that? How about you show me were ZERO whites are admitted with lower scores than blacks in universities in this nation. How about we do that. You guys make all these comments then you ask for everyone else to prove themselves but you guys never do. How about you do so?

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities.

Any policy that adds 200 points or more to a black student's SAT score will result in some non-black students being displaced.

That's not the hard data that you have been asked to present. .What abut the 200 points whites get for legacy admissions? Does that men black students are being displaced? You see unlike the 230 point claim, I have actually produced a policy that shows preference points that are provided. and they are provided to whites.

Lee's next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column.

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”


The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.

“Do Asians need higher test scores? Is it harder for Asians to get into college? The answer is yes,” Lee says.

For Asian Americans, a changing landscape on college admissions

Asians are 5 percent of the overall population but 18.5 percent of Ivy league students. So just how tough is it really for Asians.? Or have they been race baited?

Princeton for example has 22 percent Asian students which is 4 times the population of Asians in this country, At Princeton Asians are admitted almost at a 3:1 rate over blacks. This is a classic case of white race baiting by pitting one minority group against another.

Race Demographics of Ivy League Schools

Asians are 5 percent of the overall population but 18.5 percent of Ivy league students. So just how tough is it really for Asians.?

If blacks get in with lower test scores/lower grades than Asians who are rejected, the percentage of Asians should be higher than 18.5%. Right?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities.

Any policy that adds 200 points or more to a black student's SAT score will result in some non-black students being displaced.

That's not the hard data that you have been asked to present. .What abut the 200 points whites get for legacy admissions? Does that men black students are being displaced? You see unlike the 230 point claim, I have actually produced a policy that shows preference points that are provided. and they are provided to whites.

What abut the 200 points whites get for legacy admissions?

Of the 3,478 profiles which responded to the legacy question, legacy profiles scored 1870 on the SAT versus 1943 for nonlegacy students.


Ummmm....looks like 73 points. DERP!

Tell you what, end legacy admissions and AA admissions and in a few years we can discuss the huge drop in black admissions.

So you can't prove yourself. AA is not just for blacks. If these end and black admissions drop, it will be due to white racism.

Prove myself? WTH?

AA is not just for blacks.

Never said it was.

If these end and black admissions drop, it will be due to white racism.

Or poor grades and test scores by blacks.

No there is no or, it would be due to white racism only.

No there is no or, it would be due to white racism only.

Why would they ignore poor grades and test scores by blacks?

 

[Slyhunter]

Illogical is illogical regardless of one's politics or what you or I might consider 'fair.' That's how logic operates.

Yes and what you say is illogical.

How so?

Because you ignore the reasons why any points would be added and pretend like the events which made this necessary never were So that makes your comments illogical because they are based upon a pretense that denies why these things happen..

You really don't seem to understand what logic is. Your statement above contains assumptions and false conclusions.

That's where you are wrong again. I said that blacks get the 230 points because whites already had them. To you that .was illogical. That's why I say you miss the reason why things occur. Historically whites have had advantages and preferences because they are white. So in essence they had a 230 point lead in he admissions process before it started. These historical references are what a certain type of white person whites fails to recognize and really I have to believe they do this on purpose. Other whites seem to understand this and have no problem with such policy being implemented because of the things I mentioned. So there are no assumptions or false conclusions being made by me. You appear to want to pretend that the history of discrimination doesn't benefit whites now and you apparently don't seem to understand that history required things like adding 230 points to blacks on admission needed to be done. And what's worse is that you and the other whites here trying to argue this are arguing about something that happens in less than 1/2 pf 1 percent of all the universities in American and still with that whites are the majority of students admitted.

Which whites? I didn't have them. I don't give a **** about other whites.

 

[Coyote]

Legacy admissions are given to primarily white students

What percentage of all admissions are white legacies? Give me some hard data.

The trend remained for students who were accepted into top 25 schools (as ranked by the US News & World Report), where legacy students scored 2133 versus 2156 for nonlegacy students.

What were the scores for the black students who were accepted?

You know the only places hat suggest blacks are getting 230 points

How many do they get?

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities. How about we do that? Show me a reduction In white college graduates because of these programs. How about we do that? How about you show me were ZERO whites are admitted with lower scores than blacks in universities in this nation. How about we do that. You guys make all these comments then you ask for everyone else to prove themselves but you guys never do. How about you do so?

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities.

Any policy that adds 200 points or more to a black student's SAT score will result in some non-black students being displaced.

That's not the hard data that you have been asked to present. .What abut the 200 points whites get for legacy admissions? Does that men black students are being displaced? You see unlike the 230 point claim, I have actually produced a policy that shows preference points that are provided. and they are provided to whites.

What abut the 200 points whites get for legacy admissions?

Of the 3,478 profiles which responded to the legacy question, legacy profiles scored 1870 on the SAT versus 1943 for nonlegacy students.


Ummmm....looks like 73 points. DERP!

Tell you what, end legacy admissions and AA admissions and in a few years we can discuss the huge drop in black admissions.

So you can't prove yourself. AA is not just for blacks. If these end and black admissions drop, it will be due to white racism.

I think it's more complicated then simple racism. It goes back to poverty, poor schools in black communities that inadequately prepare students for college. If your parents didn't go to college you are less likely to find the support needed to be successful (this is the case in Appalachia for example where there is strong family pressure to go into traditional occupations. Kids see pregnancy and marriage as an escape rather than schooling. AA unlocks doors, but at some point we need to walk through and not look for an escalator.

 

[IM2]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

Do you think that treatment and preferences for jobs, housing, college admissions, etc. should be based on skin color, or merit - for everyone? What are your personal principles in this regard?

I think whites really have no right to be asking such questions because they have benefitted from policies that gave them references based on skin color before and during the period pf time I am talking about in this thread and up tp right now. Asking hat question pretends this never happened. Therefore because this did happen for so long, for whites to complain when the inequity these policies have created still exist wishing for a system that has never been is unfair to all others who have been wronged by these centuries pf advantages whites have been given. Things have not been equalized in 52 years.

 

[boedicca]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

You are a moron.

 

[IM2]

.... Historically whites have had advantages and preferences because they are white. .....

And is that right, or wrong?

It's wrong but whites have gotten what they have because of it and they remain where they are because they continue doing it so if policies end that try equalizing things for non whites, whites will have a huge unearned advantage because of it.

 

[IM2]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

You are a moron.

The truth is a difficult thing for you isn't it?

 

[boedicca]

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities. How about we do that? Show me a reduction In white college graduates because of these programs. How about we do that? How about you show me were ZERO whites are admitted with lower scores than blacks in universities in this nation. How about we do that. You guys make all these comments then you ask for everyone else to prove themselves but you guys never do. How about you do so?

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities.

Any policy that adds 200 points or more to a black student's SAT score will result in some non-black students being displaced.

That's not the hard data that you have been asked to present. .What abut the 200 points whites get for legacy admissions? Does that men black students are being displaced? You see unlike the 230 point claim, I have actually produced a policy that shows preference points that are provided. and they are provided to whites.

What abut the 200 points whites get for legacy admissions?

Of the 3,478 profiles which responded to the legacy question, legacy profiles scored 1870 on the SAT versus 1943 for nonlegacy students.


Ummmm....looks like 73 points. DERP!

Tell you what, end legacy admissions and AA admissions and in a few years we can discuss the huge drop in black admissions.

So you can't prove yourself. AA is not just for blacks. If these end and black admissions drop, it will be due to white racism.

I think it's more complicated then simple racism. It goes back to poverty, poor schools in black communities that inadequately prepare students for college. If your parents didn't go to college you are less likely to find the support needed to be successful (this is the case in Appalachia for example where there is strong family pressure to go into traditional occupations. Kids see pregnancy and marriage as an escape rather than schooling. AA unlocks doors, but at some point we need to walk through and not look for an escalator.

In California, per pupil spending (adjusted for inflation) has more than tripled since 1960. In 1960, the spending per pupil was $3,098. In 2008, it was $9,808. And this wasn't just in rich districts. Poor districts have seen massive increases in spending and education results have declined. We are spending a fortune to graduate functional illiterates in math and reading. Money is not the issue. Values, standards, competent parenting, and a proper curriculum are.

Current expenditure per pupil in average daily attendance in public elementary and secondary schools, by state or jurisdiction: Selected years, 1959-60 through 2007-08

 

[boedicca]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

Do you think that treatment and preferences for jobs, housing, college admissions, etc. should be based on skin color, or merit - for everyone? What are your personal principles in this regard?

I think whites really have no right to be asking such questions because they have benefitted from policies that gave them references based on skin color before and during the period pf time I am talking about in this thread and up tp right now. Asking hat question pretends this never happened. Therefore because this did happen for so long, for whites to complain when the inequity these policies have created still exist wishing for a system that has never been is unfair to all others who have been wronged by these centuries pf advantages whites have been given. Things have not been equalized in 52 years.

^^^ Racist Race Baiter Race Baiting Yet Again ^^^

 

[boedicca]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

You are a moron.

The truth is a difficult thing for you isn't it?

Au contraire. The Truth is quite Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy:

The Truth is: you are a racist race baiting moron.

 

[Montrovant]

So there are no assumptions or false conclusions being made by me.

I don't generalize about whites.

You spend a great deal of time making assumptions in this thread. You talk about "the whites" over and over, which certainly seems to be generalizations about whites. You also seem to assume that some posters are white, without knowing; this is an anonymous message board, after all.

Just to give a couple of examples:

As long as whites automatically believe they are always the most qualified this is the way I am going to believe it should be done.

You ask me about my degree like the whites do. You are here arguing about SAT scores like the whites do.

But what you and the other whites don't seem to get is that the white skin carries preferences that add up for them they never have to consider.

Then there was this quote back at the beginning of the thread :

You gave plenty of shits with all your racist posts about all this free shit we blacks are supposed to want. It's not that you don't care. It's all about you not being man enough to face the truth.

Remember that? Where you assumed that Don'tTazeMeBro had made a bunch of racist posts without actually having seen racist posts from him?

Look, I realize there have been some anti-black racists posting in this thread. I'm not excusing that: they are idiots. Nor am I denying that whites benefited from racist policies for much of this country's history, nor that the effects of such policies can still be felt today. However, you are likely to have a better time making your point if you don't say things that are clearly untrue, like you haven't been making assumptions and don't generalize about whites. Anyone who's read this thread will have seen instances of you doing those things.

Of course, I don't know what your actual motivations are. You may not be interested in real discussion about this topic. Perhaps this is just a way for you to vent anger and frustration.

Whatever the case, making assumptions and generalizations and then claiming not to be making assumptions or generalizations is unlikely to convert many minds.

 

[IM2]

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities. How about we do that? Show me a reduction In white college graduates because of these programs. How about we do that? How about you show me were ZERO whites are admitted with lower scores than blacks in universities in this nation. How about we do that. You guys make all these comments then you ask for everyone else to prove themselves but you guys never do. How about you do so?

You give me the hard data that shows how white college admittances have been reduced by any policy which allows backs to be admitted into universities.

Any policy that adds 200 points or more to a black student's SAT score will result in some non-black students being displaced.

That's not the hard data that you have been asked to present. .What abut the 200 points whites get for legacy admissions? Does that men black students are being displaced? You see unlike the 230 point claim, I have actually produced a policy that shows preference points that are provided. and they are provided to whites.

Lee's next slide shows three columns of numbers from a Princeton University study that tried to measure how race and ethnicity affect admissions by using SAT scores as a benchmark. It uses the term “bonus” to describe how many extra SAT points an applicant's race is worth. She points to the first column.

African Americans received a “bonus” of 230 points, Lee says.

She points to the second column.

“Hispanics received a bonus of 185 points.”


The last column draws gasps.

Asian Americans, Lee says, are penalized by 50 points — in other words, they had to do that much better to win admission.

“Do Asians need higher test scores? Is it harder for Asians to get into college? The answer is yes,” Lee says.

For Asian Americans, a changing landscape on college admissions

Asians are 5 percent of the overall population but 18.5 percent of Ivy league students. So just how tough is it really for Asians.? Or have they been race baited?

Princeton for example has 22 percent Asian students which is 4 times the population of Asians in this country, At Princeton Asians are admitted almost at a 3:1 rate over blacks. This is a classic case of white race baiting by pitting one minority group against another.

Race Demographics of Ivy League Schools

Asians are 5 percent of the overall population but 18.5 percent of Ivy league students. So just how tough is it really for Asians.?

If blacks get in with lower test scores/lower grades than Asians who are rejected, the percentage of Asians should be higher than 18.5%. Right?

That's not happening and it would not change the percentages of Asians getting in. You see, you were presented with facts about legacy points which yo refuse to believe because it benefits whites. Whites who score lower than everybody else on SAT tests. You refuse to accept that and think you cam force your bilge about low scoring blacks. SAT scores have been shown to have little relevance to being qualified for college. .There is no evidence that blacks with lower high school GPAS are getting into Ivy league schools ahead of Asians. And when 3 times the rate of your population are being accepted into 8 universities, there probably aren't many Asians getting rejected from those schools.

.

 

[IM2]

... at what time in US history was college ever reserved for only the most qualified people .....

And you think that's how it should be?

I don't think that whites who have benefitted from decades/ centuries of being allowed to gain from such a system should be bitching abut merit and qualifications when most of them did not get where they are based on either.

You are a moron.

The truth is a difficult thing for you isn't it?

Au contraire. The Truth is quite Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy:

The Truth is: you are a racist race baiting moron.

And exactly what does this have to do with the OP?