No 'Deals' With Israel, Unless We Get Everything We Want

Billo_Really, et al,

Nearly every nation has rules pertaining to Work Visa Status. These include the B1, H1B, L1, E1, and E2 visas; as well as US Green Cards. Section 106(c) of AC21, commonly known as the job flexibility provision, enacted as Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) section 204(j).

Covers two broad categories:
  • Temporary (Nonimmigrant) Worker
  • Permanent (Immigrant) Worker


That's about as stupid as arguing gravity plays no role in plane crashes.

It's apartheid and racist in Palestine and illegal in the US (violation of the Civil Rights Act).
(COMMENT)

No, it is not. It is rare that you do not have to provide some proof of U.S. Citizenship and Identification When Applying for a Job, or show a Work visa, in the US.

And in the US, the labor laws permit the union shops for collective bargaining purposes; except in those states that have passed right-to-work laws, which generally obstruct the practical application of collective bargaining.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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Billo_Really, et al,

Nearly every nation has rules pertaining to Work Visa Status. These include the B1, H1B, L1, E1, and E2 visas; as well as US Green Cards. Section 106(c) of AC21, commonly known as the job flexibility provision, enacted as Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) section 204(j).

Covers two broad categories:
  • Temporary (Nonimmigrant) Worker
  • Permanent (Immigrant) Worker


That's about as stupid as arguing gravity plays no role in plane crashes.

It's apartheid and racist in Palestine and illegal in the US (violation of the Civil Rights Act).
(COMMENT)

No, it is not. It is rare that you do not have to provide some proof of U.S. Citizenship and Identification When Applying for a Job, or show a Work visa, in the US.

And in the US, the labor laws permit the union shops for collective bargaining purposes; except in those states that have passed right-to-work laws, which generally obstruct the practical application of collective bargaining.

Most Respectfully,
R

What do visas have to do with the native population?

Union membership cannot be denied do to race.
 
work visas allow a person to enter for short time but they are not expect or allowed to or become citizens without cause or going through the long process of application.
 
"...But the issue is the over 700,000 arabs that were driven from their land without selling."
Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.
 
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Billo_Really, et al,

Let's go back to the argument.

What do visas have to do with the native population?

Union membership cannot be denied do to race.
(COMMENT)

You claim that the Jews were guilty of "racism and apartheid" because they had a closed shop for hiring Jews (fellow immigrants).

I said that there are economic reasons for this, "similar to" the closed shop concepts, in fact there are many economic reasons.

The indigenous population has nothing to do with 'Visa's" --- that applies to the immigrants and the self-help, hire your own, Jewish affirmative action. There are many reasons why the Jewish might hire the Jewish.

The fact that the Jewish hire other Jewish immigrants is not necessarily racism or apartheid. Any more than Italians tend to hire Italians in Italian Village; or, that Orientals tend to hire other Orientals in China Town.

Playing the "race card" at every opportunity to garner attention is just another form of the "Poor Me" manipulation. It is just another way of trying to suppress the fact that the Hostile Arab-Palestinians (HoAP) made the genocide threat... And Oh NO! The fact that the HoAP have not only threatened action to further "racism and apartheid," but have taken action to carry-out these threats; are what:
  • Reason
  • No Reason

Get real and promote positive images of the Palestinian, and not consistently the negative image.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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aris2chat, et al,

Yes, this is correct.

work visas allow a person to enter for short time but they are not expect or allowed to or become citizens without cause or going through the long process of application.
(COMMENT)

In the case of the Jewish Immigrant to Palestine, the authorities had made special provisions to facilitate the acquisition of Palestinian citizenship, under the Mandatory, by Jews who take up their permanent residence in Palestine.

The cause was to secure the co-operation of all Jews who were willing to assist in the establishment of the Jewish national home.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
Arabs that stayed became Israelis and they have worked hard to make Israel a strong state. Arabs did not have to leave till after Israel was attacked. Arabs in other states told them to leave.


"...But the issue is the over 700,000 arabs that were driven from their land without selling."
Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.
 
Arabs that stayed became Israelis and they have worked hard to make Israel a strong state. Arabs did not have to leave till after Israel was attacked. Arabs in other states told them to leave.


"...But the issue is the over 700,000 arabs that were driven from their land without selling."
Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.

"...around 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel (50 percent of the total Arab of Mandatory Palestine) left or were expelled from their homes...

The causes remain also the subject of fundamental disagreement between Arabs and Israelis. Factors involved in the exodus include Jewish military advances, attacks against Arab villages and fears of massacre after Deir Yassin, which caused many to leave out of panic; expulsion orders by Zionist authorities; the voluntary self-removal of the wealthier classes, the collapse in Palestinian leadership, and an unwillingness to live under Jewish control..."


1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

====================

A mixed bag of causes for The Great Palestinian Skeddadle of 1948.

Pro-Palestinian folk like to bluster about all 700,000 being driven from their homes...

When, in truth, only a fraction of Palestinians were driven-out by Jewish militia units and factions (the precursor to the modern Israeli Army) and Jewish officials and leadership...

The rest made very bad choices, and now they (and their descendants) are living the consequences of those very bad choices...

And, of course, let's not forget...

Very, very few of those Palestinians would ever have been displaced in 1948, had it not been for five (5) neighboring Arab countries making war on the newly-born State of Israel, with an eye to driving the Jews into the Mediterranean Sea...

Makes one wonder how the Israeli-Palestinian relationship would look today, in an Alternative Universe in which those five neighboring Arab countries had chosen a peaceful approach to helping their Arab-Palestinian brethren, rather than taking up the sword on Day One, before the ink was even dry on the Israeli Declaration of Statehood and Independence...

It seems entirely legitimate to speculate that the present-day Palestinian condition is attributable to three (3) main factors:

1. very bad Palestinian choices about taking sides, and fleeing, in 1948

2. Jewish-Israeli seizure of the lands they abandoned

3. Arab nations attacking Israel in 1948 - the trigger and flash-point for all that followed

Oh, the pro-Palestinian / pro-Muslim / pro-Arab folks can kvetch and ***** all they like about Jewish immigration into Turkish and Mandate Palestine before 1948, but you can't stop immigration in a region like that, when those dreaming to reclaim an ancient home successfully market their dream amongst their fellows and the idea gets traction and takes off...

Once they had arrived at 1948 on the timeline - the nexus point for all that followed - the challenge wasn't to play whiney-***** about Jewish Immigration... the challenge was to incorporate that Jewish Immigration into a broader regional or national state of affairs... obvious to us now, armed with hindsight, but that should have occurred to sensible Arab leaders back then, as well... the absence of sensible Palestinian-Arab leadership proved problematic for the future, and excuses about decimation of leadership by the British a decade earlier do not excuse a failure to put forward sensible replacement leadership during the course of that intervening decade - especially while the Brits were preoccupied fighting for their lives during WWII and maintaining a marginal presence in Palestine during the war years.

Finally... the Jews were simply much better at nation-creating than the incompetent Palestinian Arabs and neighbor Arabs of the time - the Arabs were simply and overwhelmingly out-classed and out-smarted on the Political and Social Fronts...

Out-classed militarily... out-classed politically... out-classed in nation-building...

Nature has de-selected the Palestinians as a polity...

The people will continue to exist, of course, assimilated into the broader neighboring region, but they are a failed pseudo-State that never got off the ground, and, quite likely, never will now. Given their lack of cohesion and identity until well within Living Memory, and their international terrorism over the decades, and the enormous fuss being made over these chronic losers, I don't think the world at-large is going to shed any crocodile tears when they finally break apart and scatter into nearby Arab-Muslim countries.
 
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Ata-hY9WQ*

Deir Yassin - Startling evidence

Deir Yassin a bit of clarity about the truth and lies
Why would a former Israeli military governor of Jerusalem side with the arabs on this issue?

A former Israeli military governor of Jerusalem writes:

"We suffered a reverse of a different nature on April 9 when combined Etzel and Stern Gang units mounted a deliberate and unprovoked attack on the Arab village of Deir Yassin on the western edge of Jerusalem. There was no reason for the attack. It was a quiet village, which had denied entry to the volunteer Arab units from across the frontier and which had not been involved in any attacks on Jewish areas. The dissident groups chose it for strictly political reasons. It was a deliberate act of terrorism ...
What's up with that?
 
Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.
Oh you're so full of shit!

People don't leave homes they've been living in for over 2000 years just because someone asked them to.

Your logic is lunacy.
 
Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.
Oh you're so full of shit!

People don't leave homes they've been living in for over 2000 years just because someone asked them to.

Your logic is lunacy.
The multiple substantive (statistically significant) causes of Palestinian abandonment of their lands in 1948 is well-documented, including large numbers who left at the behest of the Five Invading Arab Powers of 1948 ('because someone asked them to').

Your inability or unwillingness to accept such established fact, because it disagrees with your perspective and desires, is your cross to bear, not mine.
 
Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.
Oh you're so full of shit!

People don't leave homes they've been living in for over 2000 years just because someone asked them to.

Your logic is lunacy.

Come on, Billy. The UN said that anyone who was living in the area for just two years could be considered a refugee. You and I both know that anyone living in an area for only two years is not indigenous to an area. You also seem to forget that the British officials in the area reported back that the Arabs were flooding into the area in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them (why do you think those African Blacks are trying to get into Israel?) It is the same reason you see those poor people crossing our southern border as well as the people you see flooding into Canada and Europe from their poor countries. You and I don't have to be any government officials to see how the populations have changed in our own areas because many have come here for work with which their original countries were unable to provide them.
 
Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.
Oh you're so full of shit!

People don't leave homes they've been living in for over 2000 years just because someone asked them to.


Your logic is lunacy.
;^)

"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, Imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and Threw them into Prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The ARAB States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did Not Recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is Regrettable".

- by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, March 1976
...

"The Arab streets are Curiously deserted and, ardently following the poor example of the more moneyed class there has been an exodus from Jerusalem too, though not to the same extent as in Jaffa and Haifa."

- London Times, May 5, 1948


"Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the -Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.. . . It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as Renegades."

- The London weekly Economist, October 2, 1948


"It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem."

- Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949


"The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of HAIFA a ghost city... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."

- Time, May 3, 1948, p. 25


The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine.....

- Kenneth Bilby, in New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31



I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the Direct Consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem,

Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee,
the Official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, Beirut, Daily Telegraph, Sept 6, 1948



The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.

-Falastin
(Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949 (recently cited by Dereez)



We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down.

- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said quoted in Sir Am Nakbah by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952


"The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."


- Jordan daily Ad Difaa, Sept 6, 1954



"The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war."

- General Glubb Pasha, in the London Daily Mail on August 12, 1948


"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities Guaranteed their Safety and rights as citizens of Israel."

- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, according to Rev. Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949



"The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce they rather preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town. This is in fact what they did."

- Jamal Husseini, Acting Chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee,
- UNSC Official Records (N. 62), April 23, 1948, p. 14


"the military and civil authorities and the Jewish representative expressed their profound Regret at this grave decision [to evacuate]. The [Jewish] Mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation to reconsider its decision"

- The Arab National Committee of Haifa/Arab League, quoted in The Refugee in the World, Schechtman, 1963


"The existence of these refugees is a Direct Result of the Arab States' Opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously, and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs.
...The flight of Arabs from the territory allotted by the UN for the Jewish state began immediately after the General Assembly decision at the end of November 1947. This wave of emigration, which lasted several weeks, comprised some 30,000 people, chiefly well-to-do-families."

- Emil Ghory, secretary of the Arab High Council, Lebanese daily Al-Telegraph, 6 Sept 1948


"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave...
We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave...
We have rendered them dispossessed...
We have accustomed them to begging...
We have participated in lowering their moral and social level...
Then We exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon... men, women and children - all this in service of Political purposes..."

- Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war



"As early as the first months of 1948 the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property."

- bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957


One morning in April 1948, Dr. Jamal woke us to say that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), led by the Husseinis, had warned Arab residents of Talbieh to leave immediately. The understanding was that the residents would be able to return as Conquerors as soon as the Arab forces had thrown the Jews out. Dr. Jamal made the point repeatedly that he was leaving because of the AHC's threats, not because of the Jews, and that he and his frail wife had no alternative but to go.

Commentary Magazine -- January 2000

And many more at: Refugees, The Palestinian Refugees - The Peace FAQ

;^)
 
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Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.
Oh you're so full of shit!

People don't leave homes they've been living in for over 2000 years just because someone asked them to.


Your logic is lunacy.
;^)

"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, Imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and Threw them into Prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The ARAB States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did Not Recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is Regrettable"....

Game... Set... Match
 
"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND,
Bullshit!

They were driven out by jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.
 
15th post
Come on, Billy. The UN said that anyone who was living in the area for just two years could be considered a refugee. You and I both know that anyone living in an area for only two years is not indigenous to an area. You also seem to forget that the British officials in the area reported back that the Arabs were flooding into the area in droves from their surrounding impoverished countries when the Jews had jobs for them (why do you think those African Blacks are trying to get into Israel?) It is the same reason you see those poor people crossing our southern border as well as the people you see flooding into Canada and Europe from their poor countries. You and I don't have to be any government officials to see how the populations have changed in our own areas because many have come here for work with which their original countries were unable to provide them.
They weren't there for 2 years, they were there for 2000 years.


And I proved in post #216 there were no jobs in Palestine for arabs.


So why would they flood into an area for a job not being offered?

And I do believe I posted the UN records on migration, which showed the only flood of people were Zionists. The arabs were already there.
 
"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND,
Bullshit!

They were driven out by jewish terrorist groups like Irgun.

Oh, indeed, some were driven out by Jewish militia units and leaders...

Some... not ALL... not even MOST, most likely...
 
The multiple substantive (statistically significant) causes of Palestinian abandonment of their lands in 1948 is well-documented, including large numbers who left at the behest of the Five Invading Arab Powers of 1948 ('because someone asked them to').

Your inability or unwillingness to accept such established fact, because it disagrees with your perspective and desires, is your cross to bear, not mine.
Arab armies came in to protect their land rights. So why would they ask them to leave? It doesn't make sense.

Zionists, on the otherhand, wanted all non-jews out of the area and used jewish terrorist groups like Irgun to do it.
 
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