No 'Deals' With Israel, Unless We Get Everything We Want

[Kondor3]

The multiple substantive (statistically significant) causes of Palestinian abandonment of their lands in 1948 is well-documented, including large numbers who left at the behest of the Five Invading Arab Powers of 1948 ('because someone asked them to').

Your inability or unwillingness to accept such established fact, because it disagrees with your perspective and desires, is your cross to bear, not mine.

Arab armies came in to protect their land rights. So why would they ask them to leave? It doesn't make sense...

The Five Invading Arab Armies were not protecting their land rights.

They HAD no land rights; Palestine was NOT theirs for the taking.

This flies in the face of every pro-Palestinian land-ownership argument which states that at the split-second of the Termination of the British Mandate, ownership of the land reverted to the inhabitants of that territory, who had a right to self-determination.

"...Zionists, on the otherhand, wanted all non-jews out of the area and used jewish terrorist groups like Irgun to do it."

There was, indeed, some of that occurring.

But history tells us that that was only one of SEVERAL reasons for The Big Palestinian Skeddadle of 1948...

Sorry...

 

[Billo_Really]

The Five Invading Arab Armies were not protecting their land rights.

They HAD no land rights; Palestine was NOT theirs for the taking.

This flies in the face of every pro-Palestinian land-ownership argument which states that at the split-second of the Termination of the British Mandate, ownership of the land reverted to the inhabitants of that territory, who had a right to self-determination.

Sorry, you're confused.

UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine


Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;

4. Recognizes that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;

5. Further recognizes the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;

6. Appeals to all States and international organizations to extend their support to the Palestinian people in its struggle to restore its rights, in accordance with the Charter;

International law does not back you up.

 

[abu afak]

Some were driven.

A lot skeddadled because they were afraid the Jews would do to them what they had been doing to the Jews.

A lot more skeddadled because their Arab Neighbor States told them to leave until those five invading Arab Armies or 1948 could wipe out the Jews, and that they could return to their homes in a couple of weeks, if they would choose to side with the outside Arabs and obey their directive to leave.

65 years is a wee-bit longer than 2 weeks, and the old-timers and children and grandchildren and great-grandchildren of The Bad Choice and The Great Skeddadle of 1948 are STILL stupidly sitting in those shit-holes like cattle, waiting for a redemption of promises that will never come. Time to get-a-clue and pack up and leave.

Oh you're so full of shit!

People don't leave homes they've been living in for over 2000 years just because someone asked them to.

Your logic is lunacy.

;^)

"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, Imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and Threw them into Prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The ARAB States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did Not Recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is Regrettable".

- by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, March 1976
...

"The Arab streets are Curiously deserted and, ardently following the poor example of the more moneyed class there has been an exodus from Jerusalem too, though not to the same extent as in Jaffa and Haifa."

- London Times, May 5, 1948


"Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the -Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.. . . It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as Renegades."

- The London weekly Economist, October 2, 1948


"It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem."

- Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949


"The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of HAIFA a ghost city... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."

- Time, May 3, 1948, p. 25


The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine.....

- Kenneth Bilby, in New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31



I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the Direct Consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem,

Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the Official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, Beirut, Daily Telegraph, Sept 6, 1948



The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.

-Falastin (Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949 (recently cited by Dereez)



We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down.

- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said quoted in Sir Am Nakbah by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952


"The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."

- Jordan daily Ad Difaa, Sept 6, 1954


"The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war."

- General Glubb Pasha, in the London Daily Mail on August 12, 1948


"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities Guaranteed their Safety and rights as citizens of Israel."

- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, according to Rev. Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949



"The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce they rather preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town. This is in fact what they did."

- Jamal Husseini, Acting Chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee,- UNSC Official Records (N. 62), April 23, 1948, p. 14


"the military and civil authorities and the Jewish representative expressed their profound Regret at this grave decision [to evacuate]. The [Jewish] Mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation to reconsider its decision"

- The Arab National Committee of Haifa/Arab League, quoted in The Refugee in the World, Schechtman, 1963


"The existence of these refugees is a Direct Result of the Arab States' Opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously, and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs.
...The flight of Arabs from the territory allotted by the UN for the Jewish state began immediately after the General Assembly decision at the end of November 1947. This wave of emigration, which lasted several weeks, comprised some 30,000 people, chiefly well-to-do-families."

- Emil Ghory, secretary of the Arab High Council, Lebanese daily Al-Telegraph, 6 Sept 1948


"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave...
We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave...
We have rendered them dispossessed...
We have accustomed them to begging...
We have participated in lowering their moral and social level...
Then We exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon... men, women and children - all this in service of Political purposes..."

- Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war


"As early as the first months of 1948 the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property."

- bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957


One morning in April 1948, Dr. Jamal woke us to say that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), led by the Husseinis, had warned Arab residents of Talbieh to leave immediately. The understanding was that the residents would be able to return as Conquerors as soon as the Arab forces had thrown the Jews out. Dr. Jamal made the point repeatedly that he was leaving because of the AHC's threats, not because of the Jews, and that he and his frail wife had no alternative but to go.

Commentary Magazine -- January 2000


;^)

What?
No response for me Brillo?
Feel Free to just Ignore Gigantic counter-argument/MONSTROUS Rebuttal I see.
Absolute DUH-NILE mode.
"No"
;^)

I feel a 'Refugee' string/lesson coming.
.

 

[Kondor3]

The Five Invading Arab Armies were not protecting their land rights.

They HAD no land rights; Palestine was NOT theirs for the taking.

This flies in the face of every pro-Palestinian land-ownership argument which states that at the split-second of the Termination of the British Mandate, ownership of the land reverted to the inhabitants of that territory, who had a right to self-determination.

Sorry, you're confused.

UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine


Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations,

Expressing its grave concern that the Palestinian people has been prevented from enjoying its inalienable rights, in particular its right to self-determination,

Guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter,

Recalling its relevant resolutions which affirm the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

3. Emphasizes that full respect for and the realization of these inalienable rights of the Palestinian people are indispensable for the solution of the question of Palestine;

4. Recognizes that the Palestinian people is a principal party in the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East;

5. Further recognizes the right of the Palestinian people to regain its rights by all means in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;

6. Appeals to all States and international organizations to extend their support to the Palestinian people in its struggle to restore its rights, in accordance with the Charter;

International law does not back you up.

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, Billy Boy..

Where in all of that does it say anything about Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria or Lebanon - the Five Invading Arab Armies - protecting the land-rights of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria or Lebanon?

And...

You DO realize that you are citing a 1974 Resolution?

You DO realize that you are trying to use a 1974 UN General Assembly Resolution to prove the the Five Invading Armies were protecting the land-rights of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, within Palestine, in 1948, do you not?

Focus, Billy-Boy... focus.

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Very good points. However, UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine was dated in 1976. The Occupation was 1967 (a decade earlier). You cannot use a law enacted today to make and apply to an action performed yesterday. That would be a retroactive application.

UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine

Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nation

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

(COMMENT)

You will notice that GA Resolution 3236 lists the "right to self-determination" and the "right to national independence and sovereignty" as two separate and distinct rights.

Secondly, it doesn't acknowledge that the Palestinian rejected the Partition Plan and the offer of a independent Arab State.

Lastly, while the Palestinian rejected the GA Resolution 181(II), in 1948, it did accept it in 1988. The Palestinian was not denied "right to national independence and sovereignty," as it exercised and Declared Independence.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[P F Tinmore]

Billo_Really, et al,

Very good points. However, UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine was dated in 1976. The Occupation was 1967 (a decade earlier). You cannot use a law enacted today to make and apply to an action performed yesterday. That would be a retroactive application.

UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine

Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nation

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

Most Respectfully,
R

There was no new law. The terms "recognizing" and "reaffirms" merely reference already existing law.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I absolutely understand.

Billo_Really, et al,

Very good points. However, UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine was dated in 1976. The Occupation was 1967 (a decade earlier). You cannot use a law enacted today to make and apply to an action performed yesterday. That would be a retroactive application.

UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine

Recognizing that the Palestinian people is entitled to self-determination in accordance with the Charter of the United Nation

1. Reaffirms the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people in Palestine, including:

(a) The right to self-determination without external interference;

(b) The right to national independence and sovereignty;​

2. Reaffirms also the inalienable right of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property from which they have been displaced and uprooted, and calls for their return;

There was no new law. The terms "recognizing" and "reaffirms" merely reference already existing law.

(COMMENT)

You did not cite old law. You did not cite law which defines the meaning of the "right of self determination" (that wasn't defined until a couple years ago). And you did not indicate when the Palestinian was denied the "right to independence and sovereignty."

Be specific:

• Who denied the Palestinian's the right of self-determination" and when?
• Who denied the Palestinian's the right of independence and sovereignty and when?

What laws are you applying?

What is the definition of:

• The right of self-determination
• Where is it defined and when?

When did Israel deny the right of self-determination to the Palestinian's and what specifically was denied?

When did Israel deny the right of independence and sovereignty to the Palestinian's and when?

Palestinians throw these terms, phrases, and accusations around quite a bit, yet don't substantiate the claim.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

Very good points. However, UN Resolution 3236 (XXIX). Question of Palestine was dated in 1976. The Occupation was 1967 (a decade earlier). You cannot use a law enacted today to make and apply to an action performed yesterday. That would be a retroactive application.

I wasn't mentioning it in reference to the "occupation" in particular, although it is relevant, I was referring to the Palestinians living that area at the time Zionists unilaterally declared statehood a day before the Mandate was to officially end.

You did not cite old law. You did not cite law which defines the meaning of the "right of self determination" (that wasn't defined until a couple years ago).

Oh, c'mon!

Article 1 of the UN Charter, which is about 60 years old.

CHAPTER I: PURPOSES AND PRINCIPLES

Article 1

The Purposes of the United Nations are:

1. To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace, and to bring about by peaceful means, and in conformity with the principles of justice and international law, adjustment or settlement of international disputes or situations which might lead to a breach of the peace;

2. To develop friendly relations among nations based on respect for the principle of equal rights and self-determination of peoples, and to take other appropriate measures to strengthen universal peace;

What kind of person argues against an entire population of people not being able to determine their type of government?

 

[Billo_Really]

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, Billy Boy..

Where in all of that does it say anything about Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria or Lebanon - the Five Invading Arab Armies - protecting the land-rights of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria or Lebanon?

And...

You DO realize that you are citing a 1974 Resolution?

You DO realize that you are trying to use a 1974 UN General Assembly Resolution to prove the the Five Invading Armies were protecting the land-rights of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, within Palestine, in 1948, do you not?

Focus, Billy-Boy... focus.

This issue isn't about land rights in Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.

The arab states sent a letter to the UN explaining their decision to act militarily in Palestine...

On the termination of the Mandate, Jewish forces moved to occupy further territory beyond the boundaries specified by the Partition resolution. Irregular units from neighboring Arab States had already entered Palestine in the final weeks of the Mandate, and now regular forces from these countries crossed into Palestine. The Arab League informed the United Nations Secretary-General by cable of the reasons for the Arab action. After tracing the history of the Palestine question and the efforts of the Arab States to help the Palestinian Arabs to secure their rightful independence, the cable stated:

"Now that the Mandate over Palestine has come to an end, leaving no legally constituted authority behind in order to administer law and order in the country and afford the necessary and adequate protection to life and property, the Arab States declare as follows:

"(a) The right to set up a Government in Palestine pertains to its inhabitants under the principles of self-determination recognized by the Covenant of the League of Nations as well as the United Nations Charter;

"(b) Peace and order have been completely upset in Palestine, and, in consequence of Jewish aggression, approximately over a quarter of a million of the Arab population have been compelled to leave their homes and emigrate to neighboring Arab countries. The prevailing events in Palestine exposed the concealed aggressive intentions of the Zionists and their imperialistic motives ...

"(c) The Mandatory has already announced that on the termination of the Mandate it will no longer be responsible for the maintenance of law and order in Palestine ... This leaves Palestine absolutely without any administrative authority ..."...

"(e) ... The recent disturbances in Palestine further constitute a serious and direct threat to peace and security within the territories of the Arab States themselves. For these reasons, and considering that the security of Palestine is a sacred trust for them, and out of anxiousness to check the further deterioration of the prevailing conditions and to prevent the spread of disorder and lawlessness into the neighboring Arab lands, and in order to fill the vacuum created by the termination of the Mandate and the failure to replace it by any legally constituted authority, the Arab Governments find themselves compelled to intervene for the sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order in Palestine.

"The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. As soon as that stage is reached for the intervention of the Arab States, which is confined to the restoration of peace and establishment of law and order, shall be put an end to, and the sovereign State of Palestine will be competent in co-operation with the other States members of the Arab League, to take every step for the promotion of the welfare and security of its peoples and territory ..."

They went in to restore order and stop Zionist aggression into areas that were not part of the Mandated jewish state.

The '74 resolution was just reaffirming the inalienable rights of indigenous arabs that were denied them back in '48.

 

[Billo_Really]

Oh you're so full of shit!

People don't leave homes they've been living in for over 2000 years just because someone asked them to.

Your logic is lunacy.

;^)

"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, Imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and Threw them into Prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The ARAB States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did Not Recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is Regrettable".

- by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, March 1976
...

"The Arab streets are Curiously deserted and, ardently following the poor example of the more moneyed class there has been an exodus from Jerusalem too, though not to the same extent as in Jaffa and Haifa."

- London Times, May 5, 1948


"Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the -Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.. . . It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as Renegades."

- The London weekly Economist, October 2, 1948


"It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem."

- Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949


"The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of HAIFA a ghost city... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."

- Time, May 3, 1948, p. 25


The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine.....

- Kenneth Bilby, in New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31



I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the Direct Consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem,

Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the Official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, Beirut, Daily Telegraph, Sept 6, 1948



The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.

-Falastin (Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949 (recently cited by Dereez)



We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down.

- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said quoted in Sir Am Nakbah by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952


"The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."

- Jordan daily Ad Difaa, Sept 6, 1954


"The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war."

- General Glubb Pasha, in the London Daily Mail on August 12, 1948


"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities Guaranteed their Safety and rights as citizens of Israel."

- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, according to Rev. Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949



"The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce they rather preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town. This is in fact what they did."

- Jamal Husseini, Acting Chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee,- UNSC Official Records (N. 62), April 23, 1948, p. 14


"the military and civil authorities and the Jewish representative expressed their profound Regret at this grave decision [to evacuate]. The [Jewish] Mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation to reconsider its decision"

- The Arab National Committee of Haifa/Arab League, quoted in The Refugee in the World, Schechtman, 1963


"The existence of these refugees is a Direct Result of the Arab States' Opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously, and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs.
...The flight of Arabs from the territory allotted by the UN for the Jewish state began immediately after the General Assembly decision at the end of November 1947. This wave of emigration, which lasted several weeks, comprised some 30,000 people, chiefly well-to-do-families."

- Emil Ghory, secretary of the Arab High Council, Lebanese daily Al-Telegraph, 6 Sept 1948


"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave...
We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave...
We have rendered them dispossessed...
We have accustomed them to begging...
We have participated in lowering their moral and social level...
Then We exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon... men, women and children - all this in service of Political purposes..."

- Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war


"As early as the first months of 1948 the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property."

- bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957


One morning in April 1948, Dr. Jamal woke us to say that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), led by the Husseinis, had warned Arab residents of Talbieh to leave immediately. The understanding was that the residents would be able to return as Conquerors as soon as the Arab forces had thrown the Jews out. Dr. Jamal made the point repeatedly that he was leaving because of the AHC's threats, not because of the Jews, and that he and his frail wife had no alternative but to go.

Commentary Magazine -- January 2000


;^)

What?
No response for me Brillo?
Feel Free to just Ignore Gigantic counter-argument/MONSTROUS Rebuttal I see.
Absolute DUH-NILE mode.
"No"
;^)

I feel a 'Refugee' string/lesson coming.
.

I don't consider your data dump a counter argument.

 

[Hossfly]

;^)

"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, THEY ABANDONED THEM, FORCED THEM TO EMIGRATE AND TO LEAVE THEIR HOMELAND, Imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and Threw them into Prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemmed to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The ARAB States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did Not Recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is Regrettable".

- by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, March 1976
...

"The Arab streets are Curiously deserted and, ardently following the poor example of the more moneyed class there has been an exodus from Jerusalem too, though not to the same extent as in Jaffa and Haifa."

- London Times, May 5, 1948


"Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the -Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit.. . . It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as Renegades."

- The London weekly Economist, October 2, 1948


"It must not be forgotten that the Arab Higher Committee encouraged the refugees' flight from their homes in Jaffa, Haifa, and Jerusalem."

- Near East Arabic Broadcasting Station, Cyprus, April 3, 1949


"The mass evacuation, prompted partly by fear, partly by order of Arab leaders, left the Arab quarter of HAIFA a ghost city... By withdrawing Arab workers their leaders hoped to paralyze Haifa."

- Time, May 3, 1948, p. 25


The Arab exodus, initially at least, was encouraged by many Arab leaders, such as Haj Amin el Husseini, the exiled pro-Nazi Mufti of Jerusalem, and by the Arab Higher Committee for Palestine.....

- Kenneth Bilby, in New Star in the Near East (New York, 1950), pp. 30-31



I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the Direct Consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem,

Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the Official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, Beirut, Daily Telegraph, Sept 6, 1948



The Arab States encouraged the Palestine Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way of the Arab invasion armies.

-Falastin (Jordanian newspaper), February 19, 1949 (recently cited by Dereez)



We will smash the country with our guns and obliterate every place the Jews seek shelter in. The Arabs should conduct their wives and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down.

- Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri Said quoted in Sir Am Nakbah by Nimr el Hawari, Nazareth, 1952


"The Arab governments told us: Get out so that we can get in. So we got out, but they did not get in."

- Jordan daily Ad Difaa, Sept 6, 1954


"The Arab civilians panicked and fled ignominiously. Villages were frequently abandoned before they were threatened by the progress of war."

- General Glubb Pasha, in the London Daily Mail on August 12, 1948


"[The Arabs of Haifa] fled in spite of the fact that the Jewish authorities Guaranteed their Safety and rights as citizens of Israel."

- Monsignor George Hakim, Greek Catholic Bishop of Galilee, according to Rev. Karl Baehr, Executive Secretary of the American Christian Palestine Committee, New York Herald Tribune, June 30, 1949



"The Arabs did not want to submit to a truce they rather preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town. This is in fact what they did."

- Jamal Husseini, Acting Chairman of the Palestine Arab Higher Committee,- UNSC Official Records (N. 62), April 23, 1948, p. 14


"the military and civil authorities and the Jewish representative expressed their profound Regret at this grave decision [to evacuate]. The [Jewish] Mayor of Haifa made a passionate appeal to the delegation to reconsider its decision"

- The Arab National Committee of Haifa/Arab League, quoted in The Refugee in the World, Schechtman, 1963


"The existence of these refugees is a Direct Result of the Arab States' Opposition to the partition plan and the reconstitution of the State of Israel. The Arab states adopted this policy unanimously, and the responsibility of its results, therefore is theirs.
...The flight of Arabs from the territory allotted by the UN for the Jewish state began immediately after the General Assembly decision at the end of November 1947. This wave of emigration, which lasted several weeks, comprised some 30,000 people, chiefly well-to-do-families."

- Emil Ghory, secretary of the Arab High Council, Lebanese daily Al-Telegraph, 6 Sept 1948


"Since 1948 it is we who demanded the return of refugees... while it is we who made them to leave...
We brought disaster upon... Arab refugees, by inviting them and bringing pressure to bear upon them to leave...
We have rendered them dispossessed...
We have accustomed them to begging...
We have participated in lowering their moral and social level...
Then We exploited them in executing crimes of murder, arson, and throwing bombs upon... men, women and children - all this in service of Political purposes..."

- Khaled al Azm, Syria's Prime Minister after the 1948 war


"As early as the first months of 1948 the Arab League issued orders exhorting the people to seek a temporary refuge in neighboring countries, later to return to their abodes in the wake of the victorious Arab armies and obtain their share of abandoned Jewish property."

- bulletin of The Research Group for European Migration Problems, 1957


One morning in April 1948, Dr. Jamal woke us to say that the Arab Higher Committee (AHC), led by the Husseinis, had warned Arab residents of Talbieh to leave immediately. The understanding was that the residents would be able to return as Conquerors as soon as the Arab forces had thrown the Jews out. Dr. Jamal made the point repeatedly that he was leaving because of the AHC's threats, not because of the Jews, and that he and his frail wife had no alternative but to go.

Commentary Magazine -- January 2000


;^)

What?
No response for me Brillo?
Feel Free to just Ignore Gigantic counter-argument/MONSTROUS Rebuttal I see.
Absolute DUH-NILE mode.
"No"
;^)

I feel a 'Refugee' string/lesson coming.
.

I don't consider your data dump a counter argument.

I remember the stories in the Weekly Reader in school in 1948 and the people were advised to move or be driven out by the Arab Armies. You live in LaLa Land for sure, Billy Bob

 

[Billo_Really]

I remember the stories in the Weekly Reader in school in 1948 and the people were advised to move or be driven out by the Arab Armies. You live in LaLa Land for sure, Billy Bob

You're the lunatic if you think people leave a home they've been living in for 2000 years, just because someone asked them to.

And it doesn't make any sense asking indigenous arabs to leave the land your army came in to protect.


You're the one whose fucking nuts!

 

[Hossfly]

I remember the stories in the Weekly Reader in school in 1948 and the people were advised to move or be driven out by the Arab Armies. You live in LaLa Land for sure, Billy Bob

You're the lunatic if you think people leave a home they've been living in for 2000 years, just because someone asked them to.

And it doesn't make any sense asking indigenous arabs to leave the land your army came in to protect.


You're the one whose fucking nuts!

Can't you get it thru your thick skull the Arabs told the Arabs to move out and come back when the Jews were swimming for Boca Raton. Didn't work out though for the Jews laid a scunion on the Arab armies, toot sweet, y'all.

 

[Kondor3]

Jesus-H-Tap-Dancing-Christ, Billy Boy..

Where in all of that does it say anything about Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria or Lebanon - the Five Invading Arab Armies - protecting the land-rights of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria or Lebanon?

And...

You DO realize that you are citing a 1974 Resolution?

You DO realize that you are trying to use a 1974 UN General Assembly Resolution to prove the the Five Invading Armies were protecting the land-rights of Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon, within Palestine, in 1948, do you not?

Focus, Billy-Boy... focus.

This issue isn't about land rights in Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Syria and Lebanon.

The arab states sent a letter to the UN explaining their decision to act militarily in Palestine...

On the termination of the Mandate, Jewish forces moved to occupy further territory beyond the boundaries specified by the Partition resolution. Irregular units from neighboring Arab States had already entered Palestine in the final weeks of the Mandate, and now regular forces from these countries crossed into Palestine. The Arab League informed the United Nations Secretary-General by cable of the reasons for the Arab action. After tracing the history of the Palestine question and the efforts of the Arab States to help the Palestinian Arabs to secure their rightful independence, the cable stated:

"Now that the Mandate over Palestine has come to an end, leaving no legally constituted authority behind in order to administer law and order in the country and afford the necessary and adequate protection to life and property, the Arab States declare as follows:

"(a) The right to set up a Government in Palestine pertains to its inhabitants under the principles of self-determination recognized by the Covenant of the League of Nations as well as the United Nations Charter;

"(b) Peace and order have been completely upset in Palestine, and, in consequence of Jewish aggression, approximately over a quarter of a million of the Arab population have been compelled to leave their homes and emigrate to neighboring Arab countries. The prevailing events in Palestine exposed the concealed aggressive intentions of the Zionists and their imperialistic motives ...

"(c) The Mandatory has already announced that on the termination of the Mandate it will no longer be responsible for the maintenance of law and order in Palestine ... This leaves Palestine absolutely without any administrative authority ..."...

"(e) ... The recent disturbances in Palestine further constitute a serious and direct threat to peace and security within the territories of the Arab States themselves. For these reasons, and considering that the security of Palestine is a sacred trust for them, and out of anxiousness to check the further deterioration of the prevailing conditions and to prevent the spread of disorder and lawlessness into the neighboring Arab lands, and in order to fill the vacuum created by the termination of the Mandate and the failure to replace it by any legally constituted authority, the Arab Governments find themselves compelled to intervene for the sole purpose of restoring peace and security and establishing law and order in Palestine.

"The Arab States recognize that the independence and sovereignty of Palestine which was so far subject to the British Mandate has now, with the termination of the Mandate, become established in fact, and maintain that the lawful inhabitants of Palestine are alone competent and entitled to set up an administration in Palestine for the discharge of all governmental functions without any external interference. As soon as that stage is reached for the intervention of the Arab States, which is confined to the restoration of peace and establishment of law and order, shall be put an end to, and the sovereign State of Palestine will be competent in co-operation with the other States members of the Arab League, to take every step for the promotion of the welfare and security of its peoples and territory ..."

They went in to restore order and stop Zionist aggression into areas that were not part of the Mandated jewish state.

The '74 resolution was just reaffirming the inalienable rights of indigenous arabs that were denied them back in '48.

I was not talking about 'land rights' IN Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon.

I was talking about your reference to so-called pan-Arab (Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon) land-rights in Palestine.

Saying that those five countries had no land-rights in Palestine TO enforce.

As to the Arab letter to the UN...

It was not given to them (the Arab Armies had no authority) to step-in, to defend so-called Palestinian rights...

The Five Invading Arab Armies made war in direct contravention to the UN Charter...

Much as the Jordanians illegally occupied and annexed the West Bank after the 1948 War...

The Arab Letter was a self-excusing circle-jerk with zero legal standing, except as a public declaration of their excuses...

The Five Invading Arab Armies had no UN mandate to proceed with a sortie into Palestine...

The Five Invading Arab Armies had no business attacking Israel...

Yet they did it anyway...

And the Jews held all five off, sufficient to survive at the end of the day...

It doesn't matter a good goddamn WHY the goddamn Arabs attacked Israel...

What DOES matter is that the goddamned Arabs DID attack Israel...

It was every bit as 'illegal' for those Five Arab Armies to attack Israel as it was for Israel to attack the Arabs in 1967, according to your own logic...

And yet, even though we see you squealing about the Jews attacking in 1967 in contravention to International Law...

We see not condemnation from you about the Arabs attacking the Jews in contravention to International Law, 19 years earlier...

Gee... I wonder why?

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Like I said, a lot of pro-Palestinians throw these phrases around, with no definition behind them.

I wasn't mentioning it in reference to the "occupation" in particular, although it is relevant, I was referring to the Palestinians living that area at the time Zionists unilaterally declared statehood a day before the Mandate was to officially end.

(COMMENT)

The Jewish Agency "did not" unilaterally declare independence. There were meetings upon meeting with the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) on behalf of the UN General Assembly and the UN Security Council, in the implementation phase. The Declaration was fully coordinated with the authorities of the day.

It is absolute nonsense to suggest that the Jewish Agency did otherwise.

Second, the Declaration of Independence was NOT declared the day before. The termination of the British Mandate was scheduled and announce on midnight 14/15 May, and moments later (still midnight 14/15 May) the independence was sent out. It was fully coordinated and arranged that way. Your are misrepresenting the facts.

Third, on termination of the Mandate, the Administrative aspects once held by the UK transitioned to the UNPC:

With a view to ensuring that there shall be continuity in the functioning of administrative services and that, on the withdrawal of the armed forces of the mandatory Power, the whole administration shall be in the charge of the Provisional Councils and the Joint Economic Board, respectively, acting under the Commission, there shall be a progressive transfer, from the mandatory Power to the Commission, of responsibility for all the functions of government, including that of maintaining law and order in the areas from which the forces of the mandatory Power have been withdrawn.

SOURCE: A/RES/181(II) 29 November 1947

Oh, c'mon!

Article 1 of the UN Charter, which is about 60 years old.

(COMMENT)

Yes, the Charter is 60+ years old, but does it define what is meant by the "right of self-determination." It does not. Oddly enough, what the UN says "confirm and define" inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, particularly their right to self-determination comes from a very unlikely source; one which the Palestinian says is "entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and its natural right in their homeland, and were inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations, particularly the right to self-determination." (Article 19, Palestine National Charter of 1968).

All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

SOURCE: General Assembly Resolution 1514 (XV) 20 December 1960

Recalling General Assembly resolutions 181 A and B (II) of 29 November 1947 and 194 (III) of 11 December 1948, as well as all other resolutions which confirm and define the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, particularly their right to self-determination without external interference and to the establishment of their independent State on their national soil, especially Assembly resolutions ES-7/2 of 29 July 1980 and 37/86 E of 20 December 1982,

Recalling its previous relevant resolutions, particularly resolutions 181 (II) of 29 November 1947, 194 (III) of 11 December 1948, 3236 (XXIX) of 22 November 1974, ES-7/2 of 29 July 1980, 36/120 D of 10 December 1981 and ES-7/9 of 24 September 1982,

Recalling, in particular, the principles relevant to the question of Palestine that have been accepted by the international community, including the right of all States in the region to existence within internationally recognized boundaries, and justice and security for all the peoples, which requires recognition and attainment of the legitimate rights of the Palestinian people,

Recognizing the necessity of participation by all parties concerned in any efforts aimed at the attainment of a just and lasting solution,

1. Reaffirms the inalienable legitimate rights of the Palestinian people, including the right to self-determination and the right to establish, once it so wishes, its independent State in Palestine;

SOURCE: A/RES/37/86(A-E) 10 December 1982

SOURCE: E/CN.4/RES/1995/4 17 February 1995

Now, it just so happens that the Palestinian does use these "rights" and recognizes these "entirely illegal" documents when it is to their advantage. Such as when the PLO Declared Independence in 1988. Not until 1988 (two decades later), except for when the All-Palestine Government tried to declare independence over the entire former Mandate on 28 September 1948, did the Palestinian attempt to exercise their right to self-determination and independence. UNLESS, one considers the threats of violence, rejection of the Partition plan, and war, as a negative exercise. The 28 September 1948 bid was then, as was two decades later, consistent with the idea that Palestine, "with the boundaries it had during the British Mandate, is an indivisible territorial unit." This was made clear during the 1948 solemn declaration of genocide on the Jewish people if they follow the UN Partition Plan and the Preparatory Steps to Independence.

What kind of person argues against an entire population of people not being able to determine their type of government?

(COMMENT)

Again, fact is stranger than fiction. No one except themselves. It was the Palestinians that declared the resolutions which confirm and define the inalienable rights of the Palestinian people, particularly their right to self-determination as "illegal." It was the Palestinian people that delayed their Declaration of Independence for two decades. And oddly enough, the Israeli Government did not interfere with the establishment of the newly formed government, even though both the Gaza Strip and West Bank were under occupation. While under occupation, the PLO did declare independence and the UN Acknowledged the proclamation of the State of Palestine one month later. The Palestinians were not denied their rights. They delayed the implementation of their rights in lieu of armed conflict as an alternative option, enlisting the power of foreign interference to assist them.

More important still, Arab elements, both inside and outside of Palestine, have exerted organized, intensive effort toward defeating the purposes of the resolution of the General Assembly. To this end, threats, acts of violence and infiltration of organized, armed, uniformed Arab bands into Palestinian territory have been employed. As early as 16 February, the Commission, in its first Special Report to the Security Council, stated that “powerful Arab interests, both inside and outside Palestine, are defying the resolution of the General Assembly and are engaged in a deliberate effort to alter by force the settlement envisaged therein”.

SOURCE: A/532 10 April 1948

• What kind of person argues against an entire population?
  • Like a dissociative identity disorder (DID) - Arab elements, both inside and outside of Palestine, shot themselves in the foot --- a very messy, self inflicted wound.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Billo_Really]

The Jewish Agency "did not" unilaterally declare independence. There were meetings upon meeting with the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) on behalf of the UN General Assembly and the UN Security Council, in the implementation phase. The Declaration was fully coordinated with the authorities of the day.

It is absolute nonsense to suggest that the Jewish Agency did otherwise.

It's a matter of historical record!

a special session of the General Assembly be called in order to approve a trusteeship for Palestine, to take effect when the Mandate ended, i.e., on May 15th. In spite of all the forewarnings, the blow was sudden, bitter and, on the surface, fatal to our long nurtured hopes ...

"It had been anticipated that the trusteeship plan would be adopted without difficulty; but within the two months since its proposal, the situation had again altered radically;...

"... When it became clear in the Assembly that the trusteeship plan could not be adopted, another delaying formula was devised - a 'temporary truce': both parties were to cease fire, no political decision was to be taken, a limited Jewish immigration was to be permitted for a few months, and in exchange for this transient and dubious security the Jews were to refrain from proclaiming their State in accordance with the November decision ...

Israel declared its independence on 14 May 1948.

One day before the official end of the Mandate.

You can't re-write history!

 

[RoccoR]

Billo_Really, et al,

Yes, yes, a matter of historical record.

The Jewish Agency "did not" unilaterally declare independence. There were meetings upon meeting with the UN Palestine Commission (UNPC) on behalf of the UN General Assembly and the UN Security Council, in the implementation phase. The Declaration was fully coordinated with the authorities of the day.

It is absolute nonsense to suggest that the Jewish Agency did otherwise.

It's a matter of historical record!

a special session of the General Assembly be called in order to approve a trusteeship for Palestine, to take effect when the Mandate ended, i.e., on May 15th. In spite of all the forewarnings, the blow was sudden, bitter and, on the surface, fatal to our long nurtured hopes ...

"It had been anticipated that the trusteeship plan would be adopted without difficulty; but within the two months since its proposal, the situation had again altered radically;...

"... When it became clear in the Assembly that the trusteeship plan could not be adopted, another delaying formula was devised - a 'temporary truce': both parties were to cease fire, no political decision was to be taken, a limited Jewish immigration was to be permitted for a few months, and in exchange for this transient and dubious security the Jews were to refrain from proclaiming their State in accordance with the November decision ...

Israel declared its independence on 14 May 1948.

One day before the official end of the Mandate.

You can't re-write history!

(COMMENT)

Please read it carefully!

WE HEREBY DECLARE THAT AS FROM TERMINATION OF MANDATE THIS NIGHT OF 14TH TO 15TH MAY 1948 AND UNTIL SETTING UP OF DULY ELECTED BODIES OF STATE IN ACCORDANCE WITH CONSTITUTION TO BE DRAWN UP BY CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY NOT LATER THAN 1ST OCTOBER 1948 PRESENT NATIONAL COUNCIL SHALL ACT AS PROVISIONAL STATE COUNCIL AND ITS EXECUTIVE ORGAN SHALL CONSTITUTE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL.

The Government of the United Kingdom, in a memorandum on the "Legal Meaning of the Termination of the Mandate", has advised the United Nations Palestine Commission that so fas the Mandatory Power is concerned the United Nations Commission will be the Government of Palestine after 15 May 1948.

SOURCE: PAL/138 27 February 1948

“Legally the Mandate terminates midnight on the night of the 14th/15th May. In consequence, His Excellency the High Commissioner will leave Jerusalem for Haifa on 14th May and will sail from Haifa in H.M.S. “Lurytalts” at midnight. The withdrawal of troops from Jerusalem and parts of Palestine will also commence on 14th May.”

SOURCE: A/AC.21/UK/142 12 May 1948

SOURCE: S/747 16 May 1948

The British Mandate Terminated at Mid-night 14/15 MAY (or 2400 Hours 14 May).

I'm not sure what pro-Palestinians get from trying to confuse the issue; or what the purpose or intention is.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[aris2chat]

armies were already advancing on the 15th when a cabel was sent to the SC declaring their invasion.

 

[docmauser1]

John Kerry is a dumbfuck. The Palestinians are not asking for any more than they are legally entitled to get.

Palistanians are just being delusional, legally or otherwise, of course.

 

[Billo_Really]

Please read it carefully!

WE HEREBY DECLARE THAT AS FROM TERMINATION OF MANDATE THIS NIGHT OF 14TH TO 15TH MAY 1948 AND UNTIL SETTING UP OF DULY ELECTED BODIES OF STATE IN ACCORDANCE WITH CONSTITUTION TO BE DRAWN UP BY CONSTITUENT ASSEMBLY NOT LATER THAN 1ST OCTOBER 1948 PRESENT NATIONAL COUNCIL SHALL ACT AS PROVISIONAL STATE COUNCIL AND ITS EXECUTIVE ORGAN SHALL CONSTITUTE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF STATE OF ISRAEL.

“Legally the Mandate terminates midnight on the night of the 14th/15th May. In consequence, His Excellency the High Commissioner will leave Jerusalem for Haifa on 14th May and will sail from Haifa in H.M.S. “Lurytalts” at midnight. The withdrawal of troops from Jerusalem and parts of Palestine will also commence on 14th May.”

SOURCE: A/AC.21/UK/142 12 May 1948

SOURCE: S/747 16 May 1948

The British Mandate Terminated at Mid-night 14/15 MAY (or 2400 Hours 14 May).

I'm not sure what pro-Palestinians get from trying to confuse the issue; or what the purpose or intention is.

There is no "14/15" bullshit!

At mid-night, it was May 15th.

And you're still not addressing the UN's request to hold off making any political decisions during the proposed truce.