No 'Deals' With Israel, Unless We Get Everything We Want

[Sweet_Caroline]

How can the Peace Talks continue with this. Israel has released many terrorists as the Palestinians pre-conditions to the Peace Talks even taking place, and now they say this.

So, forumites, what next?



PLO: No 'Deals' With Israel, Unless We Get Everything We Want

The PLO remains adamantly opposed to anything less than the effective destruction of Israel as its price for a “peace” agreement

By Dalit Halevi
First Publish: 12/9/2013, 6:11 PM


John Kerry has been proposing ideas and programs aimed at encouraging Israel and the Palestinian Authority to enter into a final-status agreements, and Israeli politicians on the left and right debate whether Israel can trust PA chief Mahmoud Abbas – not to mention Hamas – in a “land for peace deal.”

But the PLO, the political body led by Abbas, remains adamantly opposed to anything less than the effective destruction of the State of Israel as its price for a “peace” agreement. At recent celebrations commemorating the 26th anniversary of the start of the second Intidfada, the PLO issued a statement in which it said that it would not compromise on any of its basic requirements to make a deal with Israel: A full Israeli withdrawal from all lands liberated in 1967, establishment of Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state, and a full return to their original homes the families that fled Israel when it was established in 1948.

Such a “refugee return” would inundate what is left of Israel with millions of Arabs who would essentially destroy the Jewish character of the state, turning it into a “secular, democratic” state that, like other such states in the Middle East (like Lebanon) would likely be eventually wracked by civil war and strife.

The PLO added that it would also object to any temporary deal, which would “legitimize the occupation,” and allow continued Jewish residence in Judea and Samaria.

In the statement, the PLO also praised the intifada, saying that it had unified Hamas and PLO terrorists in a common cause.

Hamas, too, said that it was against any temporary deals with Israel. On his Facebook page, Hamas top terrorist Musa Abu-Marzouk wrote that Hamas would never do anything that even implied that there was such a thing as a “State of Israel,” including making any agreement, permanent or temporary, with it.

“Hamas will never accept the results of the negotiations now going on and it will struggle against any security agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority,” he added.

PLO: No 'Deals' With Israel, Unless We Get it All - Defense/Security - News - Israel National News

 

[P F Tinmore]

John Kerry is a dumbfuck.

The Palestinians are not asking for any more than they are legally entitled to get.

 

[Billo_Really]

How can the Peace Talks continue with this. Israel has released many terrorists as the Palestinians pre-conditions to the Peace Talks even taking place, and now they say this.

So, forumites, what next?

Israel needs to end the occupation and blockade of Gaza and get the fuck out of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

PLO: No 'Deals' With Israel, Unless We Get Everything We Want

The PLO remains adamantly opposed to anything less than the effective destruction of Israel as its price for a “peace” agreement

Bullshit.

What's with this use of the term "PLO"? I didn't think the PLO was in existence any more. Isn't it now the PA? Or does the author use PLO, because he knows people associate that term with terrorism?

John Kerry has been proposing ideas and programs aimed at encouraging Israel and the Palestinian Authority to enter into a final-status agreements, and Israeli politicians on the left and right debate whether Israel can trust PA chief Mahmoud Abbas – not to mention Hamas – in a “land for peace deal.”

You can't give what you don't have.

That land is not Israel's to give; it's Israel's to leave.

But the PLO, the political body led by Abbas, remains adamantly opposed to anything less than the effective destruction of the State of Israel as its price for a “peace” agreement.

Bullshit.

At recent celebrations commemorating the 26th anniversary of the start of the second Intidfada, the PLO issued a statement in which it said that it would not compromise on any of its basic requirements to make a deal with Israel: A full Israeli withdrawal from all lands liberated in 1967, establishment of Jerusalem as the capital of a Palestinian state, and a full return to their original homes the families that fled Israel when it was established in 1948.

That's not destruction of Israel.

That's the end of the illegal and immoral occupation that has been going on for 47 years.

Such a “refugee return” would inundate what is left of Israel with millions of Arabs who would essentially destroy the Jewish character of the state, turning it into a “secular, democratic” state that, like other such states in the Middle East (like Lebanon) would likely be eventually wracked by civil war and strife.

If the Zionists think they have a right to return to this area after 2000 years, then indigenous arabs who were driven from their homes in 1948 by jewish terrorist groups, have the same right to return as well. The right-of-return, is not a debatable issue.

The PLO added that it would also object to any temporary deal, which would “legitimize the occupation,” and allow continued Jewish residence in Judea and Samaria.

That's a no brainer! It's the position of every country on the planet.

I hate to break it to you, but that dog ain't gonna hunt.

In the statement, the PLO also praised the intifada, saying that it had unified Hamas and PLO terrorists in a common cause.

People resisting the occupation of their land from a foreign force, are not terrorists. They have every legal right in the world to resist. It's self defense, not terrorism.

Hamas, too, said that it was against any temporary deals with Israel. On his Facebook page, Hamas top terrorist Musa Abu-Marzouk wrote that Hamas would never do anything that even implied that there was such a thing as a “State of Israel,” including making any agreement, permanent or temporary, with it.

Funny how there's no link to his Facebook page.

“Hamas will never accept the results of the negotiations now going on and it will struggle against any security agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority,” he added.

Maybe that's because Israel and the PA won't include Hamas in the negotiations?

 

[Billo_Really]

John Kerry is a dumbfuck.

The Palestinians are not asking for any more than they are legally entitled to get.

All they're asking for, is the same rights everyone else enjoys in other country's with respect to international law.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

How can the Peace Talks continue with this. Israel has released many terrorists as the Palestinians pre-conditions to the Peace Talks even taking place, and now they say this.

So, forumites, what next?

Israel needs to end the occupation and blockade of Gaza and get the fuck out of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

PLO: No 'Deals' With Israel, Unless We Get Everything We Want

The PLO remains adamantly opposed to anything less than the effective destruction of Israel as its price for a “peace” agreement

Bullshit.

What's with this use of the term "PLO"? I didn't think the PLO was in existence any more. Isn't it now the PA? Or does the author use PLO, because he knows people associate that term with terrorism?

You can't give what you don't have.

That land is not Israel's to give; it's Israel's to leave.

Bullshit.

That's not destruction of Israel.

That's the end of the illegal and immoral occupation that has been going on for 47 years.

If the Zionists think they have a right to return to this area after 2000 years, then indigenous arabs who were driven from their homes in 1948 by jewish terrorist groups, have the same right to return as well. The right-of-return, is not a debatable issue.

That's a no brainer! It's the position of every country on the planet.

I hate to break it to you, but that dog ain't gonna hunt.

People resisting the occupation of their land from a foreign force, are not terrorists. They have every legal right in the world to resist. It's self defense, not terrorism.

Hamas, too, said that it was against any temporary deals with Israel. On his Facebook page, Hamas top terrorist Musa Abu-Marzouk wrote that Hamas would never do anything that even implied that there was such a thing as a “State of Israel,” including making any agreement, permanent or temporary, with it.

Funny how there's no link to his Facebook page.

“Hamas will never accept the results of the negotiations now going on and it will struggle against any security agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority,” he added.

Maybe that's because Israel and the PA won't include Hamas in the negotiations?

Your responses are predictable and you are like a broken record. You keep repeating the same old stuff even when proved wrong. Try saying something that challenges a debate rather than the crap you put out on the forum.

 

[Billo_Really]

Your responses are predictable and you are like a broken record. You keep repeating the same old stuff even when proved wrong. Try saying something that challenges a debate rather than the crap you put out on the forum.

Try addressing the points of my argument, instead of attacking me personally.

You can't prove anything wrong, unless you specifically address it, which you have not done.

I specifically addressed each point in your post, why can't you do the same?

Is it because you have no valid argument with which to rebut?

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

Your responses are predictable and you are like a broken record. You keep repeating the same old stuff even when proved wrong. Try saying something that challenges a debate rather than the crap you put out on the forum.

Try addressing the points of my argument, instead of attacking me personally.

You can't prove anything wrong, unless you specifically address it, which you have not done.

I specifically addressed each point in your post, why can't you do the same?

Is it because you have no valid argument with which to rebut?

I will address them when I have time, some time today.

 

[Sweet_Caroline]

How can the Peace Talks continue with this. Israel has released many terrorists as the Palestinians pre-conditions to the Peace Talks even taking place, and now they say this.

So, forumites, what next?

Israel needs to end the occupation and blockade of Gaza and get the fuck out of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights.

PLO: No 'Deals' With Israel, Unless We Get Everything We Want

The PLO remains adamantly opposed to anything less than the effective destruction of Israel as its price for a “peace” agreement

Bullshit.

What's with this use of the term "PLO"? I didn't think the PLO was in existence any more. Isn't it now the PA? Or does the author use PLO, because he knows people associate that term with terrorism?

You can't give what you don't have.

That land is not Israel's to give; it's Israel's to leave.

Bullshit.

That's not destruction of Israel.

That's the end of the illegal and immoral occupation that has been going on for 47 years.

If the Zionists think they have a right to return to this area after 2000 years, then indigenous arabs who were driven from their homes in 1948 by jewish terrorist groups, have the same right to return as well. The right-of-return, is not a debatable issue.

That's a no brainer! It's the position of every country on the planet.

I hate to break it to you, but that dog ain't gonna hunt.

People resisting the occupation of their land from a foreign force, are not terrorists. They have every legal right in the world to resist. It's self defense, not terrorism.

Hamas, too, said that it was against any temporary deals with Israel. On his Facebook page, Hamas top terrorist Musa Abu-Marzouk wrote that Hamas would never do anything that even implied that there was such a thing as a “State of Israel,” including making any agreement, permanent or temporary, with it.

Funny how there's no link to his Facebook page.

“Hamas will never accept the results of the negotiations now going on and it will struggle against any security agreement between Israel and the Palestinian Authority,” he added.

Maybe that's because Israel and the PA won't include Hamas in the negotiations?

Israel does not occupy Gaza. Israel left Gaza in August 2005. The blockade is legal because Israel and Gaza are at war. As I said last week no peace treaty has been agreed to so the blockade stays in force.
Israel won the land in a defensive war, and as I keep telling you land won in a defensive war can be held on to.
PLO is Palestine Liberation Organisation and it is still in existence.
The land is Israel’s. San Remo Mandate – remember, plus we can also mention land won in a defensive war can be legally held on to.
With regards to your “bullshit” response, wouldn’t we like to think so.
The Jews have not illegally or immorally occupied Israel. You know that full well and it has been proved to you time and time again.
Right of return: What ‘Right’ of return?
And you think there should be no Jews in Judea and Samaria. That’ll be the day. It is the heartland of the Jewish nation and will not subject to apartheid with no Jews allowed to live there.
The Facebook page? Probably in another name although you can search for it.
Hamas are a terrorist group recognized by the world as such. We do not negotiate with terrorists!

 

[Kondor3]

Was there ever any possibility that Hamas would come to the table and ask for a realistic set of achievable goals, rather than the impossible?

I think not.

No, our dumbass Administration just had to try its hand at Israeli-Palestinian Diplomacy, just like every other dumbass Administration before it.

So, the Israelis - having long-since mastered this 'wait-out the dumbass American rookies' game - played along.

The Israelis turned-loose a bunch of Palestinian prisoners, and came to the table, and waited for the dumbass Hamas negotiators to go all Intransigent on them again.

This way, when Hamas walks away, the Israelis can say to the dumbass Americans...

"See? We told you this was going to happen. But, did you believe us? No. We've been down this road before. You're new at this, and haven't got a fucking clue. Now, get off our backs, eh? We tried it your way. Your way doesn't work. Now grow up and grow a pair and shut the fuck up already."

Excuse the street-vernacular, but it adds a little spice to the point being made, in this case...

 

[Kondor3]

John Kerry is a dumbfuck.

The Palestinians are not asking for any more than they are legally entitled to get.

All they're asking for, is the same rights everyone else enjoys in other country's with respect to international law.

Now, all they need is a country in which to enjoy those rights.

I suggest Jordan, 'cause they're not wanted where they are now, and they ultimately will not be allowed to stay there. Might was well avoid the Ramadan Rush and go now.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Was there ever any possibility that Hamas would come to the table and ask for a realistic set of achievable goals, rather than the impossible?

I think not.

No, our dumbass Administration just had to try its hand at Israeli-Palestinian Diplomacy, just like every other dumbass Administration before it.

So, the Israelis - having long-since mastered this 'wait-out the dumbass American rookies' game - played along.

The Israelis turned-loose a bunch of Palestinian prisoners, and came to the table, and waited for the dumbass Hamas negotiators to go all Intransigent on them again.

This way, when Hamas walks away, the Israelis can say to the dumbass Americans...

"See? We told you this was going to happen. But, did you believe us? No. We've been down this road before. You're new at this, and haven't got a fucking clue. Now, get off our backs, eh? We tried it your way. Your way doesn't work. Now grow up and grow a pair and shut the fuck up already."

Excuse the street-vernacular, but it adds a little spice to the point being made, in this case...

I don't think anyone in the world is expecting any progress in these fake peace talks.

 

[Billo_Really]

Now, all they need is a country in which to enjoy those rights.

I suggest Jordan, 'cause they're not wanted where they are now, and they ultimately will not be allowed to stay there. Might was well avoid the Ramadan Rush and go now.

They're right where they should be.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I was not aware that the strategies for negotiation had been released to the public (open domain). I was unaware that the demands for each side had been made know?

John Kerry is a dumbfuck.

The Palestinians are not asking for any more than they are legally entitled to get.

(COMMENT)

• How do you know what the Palestinians are asking for in the negotiations?
  
• What are these terms you are claiming as an entitlement?
  
• Who guaranteed the entitlement?

The Palestinians are always claiming that they have some right or entitlement for which they use to justify the armed struggle against the UN Recommendation for the establishment of the Jewish State.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Katzndogz]

Israel should sterilize Gaza. That's the only way this can end.

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel does not occupy Gaza. Israel left Gaza in August 2005.

It maintains "effective control" over the area, which satisfies the definition of an "occupation".

The blockade is legal because Israel and Gaza are at war.

An occupation, is not a war.

As I said last week no peace treaty has been agreed to so the blockade stays in force.

Israel was never at war with the Palestinian's, so why would there be a peace treaty?

Israel won the land in a defensive war, and as I keep telling you land won in a defensive war can be held on to.

Wrong. Israeli tanks rolled into Egypt. That's not a defensive act. That's an offensive act.

And conquer by conquest, has been illegal since the end of WWII.

ISRAELI VIOLATIONS OF INTERNATIONAL LAW
•Major Legal Principle Violated -
◦1. Acquisition of Territory by Military Conquest is Illegal
◦2. Occupation (either Legal or Illegal) is Generally Temporary and Must Never Lead To Sovereignty over Occupied or Conquered Lands of the Enemy People or Nation.

How many fucking times do I have to correct you on this, before you have the ethical integrity to accept the truth?

The right of conquest is the right of a conqueror to territory taken by force of arms. It was traditionally a principle of international law which has in modern times gradually given way until its proscription after the Second World War when the crime of war of aggression was first codified in the Nuremberg Principles and then finally, in 1974, as a United Nations resolution 3314.

The completion of colonial conquest of much of the world (see the Scramble for Africa), the devastation of World War I and World War II, and the alignment of both the United States and the Soviet Union with the principle of self-determination led to the abandonment of the right of conquest in formal international law. The 1928 Kellogg-Briand Pact, the post-1945 Nuremberg Trials, the UN Charter, and the UN role in decolonization saw the progressive dismantling of this principle. Simultaneously, the UN Charter's guarantee of the "territorial integrity" of member states effectively froze out claims against prior conquests from this process.

Repeating the same garbage lies, will not make this go away.

PLO is Palestine Liberation Organisation and it is still in existence.

Alright, fine.

The land is Israel’s. San Remo Mandate – remember, plus we can also mention land won in a defensive war can be legally held on to.

Not all of it. And that's according to the Mandate as well.

With regards to your “bullshit” response, wouldn’t we like to think so.

Actually, I was referring to your bullshit response.

The Jews have not illegally or immorally occupied Israel. You know that full well and it has been proved to you time and time again.

This isn't about jews.

Israel has occupied the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights, for the last 47 years.

Right of return: What ‘Right’ of return?

The indigenous arabs jewish terrorists drove out of the area in 1948.

And you think there should be no Jews in Judea and Samaria. That’ll be the day. It is the heartland of the Jewish nation and will not subject to apartheid with no Jews allowed to live there.

After a half-century, no one on the planet recognizes Israel's right to that land.

Catch the fucking clue!

BTW, Israel's apartheid, is worse than South Africa's was.

The Facebook page? Probably in another name although you can search for it.

Your post. Your claim. You provide the evidence.

Hamas are a terrorist group recognized by the world as such. We do not negotiate with terrorists!

And in light of all the laws Israel has broken, no one should negotiate with criminals.

 

[Billo_Really]

Israel should sterilize Gaza. That's the only way this can end.

End the occupation and blockade, that will end the violence.

 

[Lipush]

John Kerry is a dumbfuck.

The Palestinians are not asking for any more than they are legally entitled to get.

Niether do we.

They need to change their leadership.

 

[Billo_Really]

The Palestinians are always claiming that they have some right or entitlement for which they use to justify the armed struggle against the UN Recommendation for the establishment of the Jewish State.

I've already proven to you Zionists didn't abide by that recommendation.

 

[Billo_Really]

Niether do we.

They need to change their leadership.

So does Israel and you agree with that.

You don't like the Likud Party any more than I do.

 

[Lipush]

John Kerry is a dumbfuck.

The Palestinians are not asking for any more than they are legally entitled to get.

All they're asking for, is the same rights everyone else enjoys in other country's with respect to international law.

So do we.

They need to change their leadership