Most Conservatives Still Believe The Civil War Wasn't Over Slavery

[OKTexas]

If secession was illegal, i would probably be on the other side of the fence on this. But it wasnt illegal.

Secession was, is, and always will be illegal.

“The constitution of a confederated republic, that is, of a national republic, formed of several states, is, or at least may be, not less an irrevocable form of government, than the constitution of a state formed and ratified by the aggregate of the several counties of the state.” Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story

Yet we now have West Virginia, GO FIGURE. LMAO


.

West Virginia remained in the union
They did not secede

But it was created by the division of a State, which blows Gs argument out of the water.


.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

No slavery, no secession.

The root cause of the war was about slavery. Period.

The Confederacy was formed to create a slave state

So was the United States.

Allowing slavery was a concession the Southern States insisted on

Slavery was legal in all thirteen states in 1776. Try again.

Constitution was ratified in 1788. The continuation of slavery was a concession made to the south

The stain of slavery and racial discrimination is something the south pushed upon us for almost 200 years

The question, in this case, was when was the United States formed, which is 1776, not when was the Constitution ratified. In other words, the United States seceded from the British Empire and formed a slave state.

If in 1776 slavery was legal in all thirteen states how do you figure it was the south alone "pushing" slavery upon "us" for almost 200 years? The math doesn't add up. 1865-1776 doesn't equal 200.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You know, what a vigorous debate over a forgotten time period. Obviously a tossed -off colony wasn't the center of the world quite yet, Europe, Europeans, Eurocentric tendencies were. The confederate cause was explained in European terms even at home while the Union cause almost equally explained in European causes.

Plot Failed Because Slavery Was the Only Way to Get Africans to Work

The nearly successful European revolutions of 1848 frightened the transnationalist ruling class, including the Yankee plutocracy. The solution devised was to provoke the Civil War, which, like Vietnam later, was designed to kill off the bravest sons of the American working class.

Then, in this self-serving scenario, the freed slaves would take the plebeian Whites' place in the Northern sweatshops. The know-it-all Capitalists thought that the Africans would accept extremely low wages as long as they finally got paid for working and that their gratitude for being emancipated would make them refuse to join the growing labor-union movement. Nor, was it imagined, would they be seduced by the Communists, since the Capitalist Republicans had freed them.

 

[TNHarley]

Take a look at the full title of this document which created the United States.


Note the words "PERPETUAL UNION" to which all parties consented.

The articles of confederation? Some papers that were voided in 1787?
OMG

Voided how, by an improvement?

Please explain how the AoC were still applicable after the signing of the Constitution.

 

[TNHarley]

Take a look at the full title of this document which created the United States.


Note the words "PERPETUAL UNION" to which all parties consented.

Which was logically extended by a "more perfect Union"; never abrogated, never renounced, never contradicted. Voluntarily joined.
The Union and its preservation was not based on Lincoln and has nothing to do with any veneration of him, though his efforts to preserve the Union are appreciated by Americans.

Lincoln had one tough row to how trying to keep the Union together.

He wasn't perfect by any means but I think he was the best President this country has ever had.

He was a tyrant that killed raped and pillaged. He shit all over the constitution. Shut down over 300 media outlets. Jailed thousands of journalists.
The best?

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

True or False:

Lincoln was a white supremacist.

For1861, far from it

So, you will judge Lincoln by 1861 standards, but everybody else by 2018 standards?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Slavery wasn't at the forefront until Lincoln attempted to free Southern Slaves, specifically, as a war measure to further cripple the southern forces. The secession was because of several things, one of the biggest being John Adam's Tariff of Abominations, which caused the South's economy to decline further. Other reasons include an expanding government, as the south believed, rightfully, that Federal Law shouldn't trump State Laws, as the States were originally intended to legislate for themselves, and to be able to opt out of the Federal Government's Nation-wide laws. Lincoln's wanting to free the slaves fell under this category because it's an example of the government eroding state rights through its expanding power.

So, in other words, it had been coming for quite some time, and was about waning agriculture vs expanding industry, and the rapidly expanding government becoming more powerful than the states, due to Presidents, like Lincoln, stomping all over State rights. The US will likely never recover from Presidents like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and Lincoln. The South just wanted to opt out.

I don't know why you guys want it to be about slaves, the south was leftist anyway, seems like you're attempting to further ruin your own image.

 

[TNHarley]

True or False:

Lincoln was a white supremacist.

For1861, far from it

So, you will judge Lincoln by 1861 standards, but everybody else by 2018 standards?

He didnt hang any *******. Only difference i know of.

 

[xyz]

The Confederacy was formed to create a slave state

So was the United States.

Allowing slavery was a concession the Southern States insisted on

Slavery was legal in all thirteen states in 1776. Try again.

Constitution was ratified in 1788. The continuation of slavery was a concession made to the south

The stain of slavery and racial discrimination is something the south pushed upon us for almost 200 years

The question, in this case, was when was the United States formed, which is 1776, not when was the Constitution ratified. In other words, the United States seceded from the British Empire and formed a slave state.

If in 1776 slavery was legal in all thirteen states how do you figure it was the south alone "pushing" slavery upon "us" for almost 200 years? The math doesn't add up. 1865-1776 doesn't equal 200.

The British Empire was a slave state in 1776. They abolished slavery in 1833.

 

[gipper]

The Confederacy was formed to create a slave state

So was the United States.

Allowing slavery was a concession the Southern States insisted on

Slavery was legal in all thirteen states in 1776. Try again.

Constitution was ratified in 1788. The continuation of slavery was a concession made to the south

The stain of slavery and racial discrimination is something the south pushed upon us for almost 200 years

The question, in this case, was when was the United States formed, which is 1776, not when was the Constitution ratified. In other words, the United States seceded from the British Empire and formed a slave state.

If in 1776 slavery was legal in all thirteen states how do you figure it was the south alone "pushing" slavery upon "us" for almost 200 years? The math doesn't add up. 1865-1776 doesn't equal 200.

You should know by now that posting logic to a Lincoln Cultist, is a massive waste of time. They are incapable of thinking logically and know little about the real history.

I find it interesting that many Rs and Ds...many cons and libs are Lincoln Cultists. These groups seldom agree on things, but when it comes to Dishonest Abe they are in total agreement. One could conclude that both groups are Statist first and foremost.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

True or False:

Lincoln was a white supremacist.

For1861, far from it

So, you will judge Lincoln by 1861 standards, but everybody else by 2018 standards?

He didnt hang any *******. Only difference i know of.

Although, funnily enough, he said he didn't want 'N-words' to have the same rights as everyone else, and even promised they wouldn't.

 

[rightwinger]

If secession was illegal, i would probably be on the other side of the fence on this. But it wasnt illegal.

Secession was, is, and always will be illegal.

“The constitution of a confederated republic, that is, of a national republic, formed of several states, is, or at least may be, not less an irrevocable form of government, than the constitution of a state formed and ratified by the aggregate of the several counties of the state.” Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story

Yet we now have West Virginia, GO FIGURE. LMAO


.

West Virginia remained in the union
They did not secede

But it was created by the division of a State, which blows Gs argument out of the water.


.

Not really
W Virginia never left

 

[hadit]

"The Civil War was about secession." "Secession was about slavery."

A = B = C.

The war was about slavery. Period.

That's not what Honest Abe said when he started the war. Link said it was to keep the union together, not to free the slaves. In fact, he didn't free the slaves in rebel states until 1863 and slaves in the union weren't freed until after the war was over.

No slavery, no war.

The war was about slavery. Period.

The war was about slavery. Comma. And a bunch of other stuff. Ignoring the other stuff just means you're not very curious about history, which is almost never as neat and tidy as many like to pretend.

But hey, what ARE they teaching in government schools these days?

 

[rightwinger]

True or False:

Lincoln was a white supremacist.

For1861, far from it

So, you will judge Lincoln by 1861 standards, but everybody else by 2018 standards?

People in 2018, I judge by 2018 standards

 

[rightwinger]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Slavery wasn't at the forefront until Lincoln attempted to free Southern Slaves, specifically, as a war measure to further cripple the southern forces. The secession was because of several things, one of the biggest being John Adam's Tariff of Abominations, which caused the South's economy to decline further. Other reasons include an expanding government, as the south believed, rightfully, that Federal Law shouldn't trump State Laws, as the States were originally intended to legislate for themselves, and to be able to opt out of the Federal Government's Nation-wide laws. Lincoln's wanting to free the slaves fell under this category because it's an example of the government eroding state rights through its expanding power.

So, in other words, it had been coming for quite some time, and was about waning agriculture vs expanding industry, and the rapidly expanding government becoming more powerful than the states, due to Presidents, like Lincoln, stomping all over State rights. The US will likely never recover from Presidents like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and Lincoln. The South just wanted to opt out.

I don't know why you guys want it to be about slaves, the south was leftist anyway, seems like you're attempting to further ruin your own image.

Slavery was at the forefront when southern states used it as a justification for secession

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Constitution was ratified in 1788. The continuation of slavery was a concession made to the south

Regardless of the underlying reason (slavery), if a state feared that the concessions they received in agreeing to the Union were about to be breached, wouldn't they have a right to treat certain actions of the other Union members as an anticipatory repudiation thereby allowing the agreement to be rescinded?

 

[OKTexas]

If secession was illegal, i would probably be on the other side of the fence on this. But it wasnt illegal.








AAAAAAAnd you guys suck off tyrants. And like it.

Our Constitution made provisions for states joint the union. They said nothing about leaving it

Secession was treason

Really, it doesn't meet the Constitutional definition of treason.


.

If it wasn`t treason can we call the firing on Ft. Sumter southern terrorism? Choose one or the other or you can choose both.

Sumter was no longer within the US, the US had no right to maintain a garrison there.


.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

You're equating the reasons for secession of particular states with the reasons behind the Civil War. These are two separate events. Perhaps it's you the government schools failed.

But the south was fighting to secede, so they were fighting for secession. They seceded over slavery. What don't you get?

No, the south had already seceded. They were fighting an invasion. The invasion was not to free the slaves, therefore the Civil War was not fought over slavery.

For some people it wasn't about slavery.
For some people it was.

It all came down to slavery and racism

For some it came down to loyalty to a State vs loyalty to a Federal Government.

Every College Graduate Can Be Replaced by Someone With a Higher IQ Who Didn't Graduate From College

Here is what Diploma Dumbos don't know about grammar and how changes in it change minds. Before the Civil War, the correct phrase was "The United States are." Postbellum, it became "The United States is."

 

[ph3iron]

Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Amazing.
I think the confeds would rather be black than white in these United States too.
Genes are long lasting

 

[ph3iron]

But the south was fighting to secede, so they were fighting for secession. They seceded over slavery. What don't you get?

No, the south had already seceded. They were fighting an invasion. The invasion was not to free the slaves, therefore the Civil War was not fought over slavery.

For some people it wasn't about slavery.
For some people it was.

It all came down to slavery and racism

For some it came down to loyalty to a State vs loyalty to a Federal Government.

Every College Graduate Can Be Replaced by Someone With a Higher IQ Who Didn't Graduate From College

Here is what Diploma Dumbos don't know about grammar and how changes in it change minds. Before the Civil War, the correct phrase was "The United States are." Postbellum, it became "The United States is."

So why do graduates make millions more over a lifetime?
Please list your string of degrees