Most Conservatives Still Believe The Civil War Wasn't Over Slavery

If secession was illegal, i would probably be on the other side of the fence on this. But it wasnt illegal.
Secession was, is, and always will be illegal.

“The constitution of a confederated republic, that is, of a national republic, formed of several states, is, or at least may be, not less an irrevocable form of government, than the constitution of a state formed and ratified by the aggregate of the several counties of the state.” Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story


Yet we now have West Virginia, GO FIGURE. LMAO


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West Virginia remained in the union
They did not secede


But it was created by the division of a State, which blows Gs argument out of the water.


.
Not really
W Virginia never left


They left VA:

Creation of West Virginia
The creation of West Virginia was an outcome of the Civil War. Statehoodwas preceded by decades of sectional conflict between leaders of eastern and western Virginia, but sectionalism was a staple of politics in many other states (and still is in many places, including modern West Virginia).

e-WV | Formation of West Virginia

That blows the shit out of this argument made by G:

“The constitution of a confederated republic, that is, of a national republic, formed of several states, is, or at least may be, not less an irrevocable form of government, than the constitution of a state formed and ratified by the aggregate of the several counties of the state.” Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story

It wasn't so irrevocable was it? Now you have CA wanting to form 3 separate States, will they be allowed to follow in WVs foot steps?


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According to the tenth amendment to the Constitution, anything that is not expressly prohibited by the Constitution is allowed. Therefore, all states have a Constitutional right to secede. ... Although this amendment does not explicitly forbid secession, some have argued that it does so implicitly.Dec 28, 2003

Seems the 10th disagrees with you



The 10th disagrees with you.

The poster already showed you where in the constitution it says that we are a united states in perpetuity. All the continuous states. Those states willingly joined our union. That means the constitution doesn't allow any part of this nation to leave the union.

It's right there in that document. You seriously need to read it. I've encountered a lot of conservatives who claim they are the only patriots and they only love our constitution yet you people haven't ever read the entire document. What's wrong? Is it too long? Does it use too many big words you have to look for the meaning in the dictionary? Is it you don't understand it?

So the 10th says all that's in the document is up to the feds. The document says no state can leave the union.

The 10th backs up the union in regard to the civil war.
 
Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery
Slavery wasn't at the forefront until Lincoln attempted to free Southern Slaves, specifically, as a war measure to further cripple the southern forces. The secession was because of several things, one of the biggest being John Adam's Tariff of Abominations, which caused the South's economy to decline further. Other reasons include an expanding government, as the south believed, rightfully, that Federal Law shouldn't trump State Laws, as the States were originally intended to legislate for themselves, and to be able to opt out of the Federal Government's Nation-wide laws. Lincoln's wanting to free the slaves fell under this category because it's an example of the government eroding state rights through its expanding power.

So, in other words, it had been coming for quite some time, and was about waning agriculture vs expanding industry, and the rapidly expanding government becoming more powerful than the states, due to Presidents, like Lincoln, stomping all over State rights. The US will likely never recover from Presidents like Woodrow Wilson, FDR, and Lincoln. The South just wanted to opt out.

I don't know why you guys want it to be about slaves, the south was leftist anyway, seems like you're attempting to further ruin your own image.
Slavery was at the forefront when southern states used it as a justification for secession
It was not at the forefront, it was an issue which leads to other issues. It also wasn't the only problem cited. You only view it as being at the forefront because you see race in everything.

Which is probably why it was cited among the reasons that the leftists left the union and formed the Confederacy.
It was THE issue and the reason they wanted to secede before Lincoln took office

They may have had some petty other grievances ......none of which warranted an immediate secession
 
Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Slavery was a part of the Civil War but States Rights was the real reason the Civil war was fought.


States rights to own human beings as slaves.

You didn't complete the sentence. I did it for you.

It was about slavery and nothing else.

Tell me what right did those states want that the federal government wanted to take from them beyond the right to own human beings a slaves.
We had the same issues with “States Rights” during the Civil Rights struggle.

States insisted on a right to treat citizens as lesser citizens


Yes I remember that. I was a child at the time and couldn't understand what the big problem was.

To this day I will never understand why anyone would ever discriminate against another human being.

I guess those who have low self esteem and self worth, those who didn't do very well in school and those who didn't continue their education beyond high school and find themselves in a life they don't like, need to have someone else to put down to make themselves feel superior.

I know it's a stupid reason to be so barbaric to human beings but it's the only reason I can see for such disgusting views and treatment of human beings.
 
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Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Slavery was a part of the Civil War but States Rights was the real reason the Civil war was fought.


States rights to own human beings as slaves.

You didn't complete the sentence. I did it for you.

It was about slavery and nothing else.

Tell me what right did those states want that the federal government wanted to take from them beyond the right to own human beings a slaves.

Nah. You just put in what you wanted to put in. LOL



Ok so you can't tell me what laws or rights that the south wanted or had that the federal government was depriving them or taking from them beyond the right to own human beings as slaves.

Your non answer is typical and actually answers my question. It also shows how cowardly you are that you can't admit the clear and real facts.

Carry on with your denial.
 
Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Slavery was a part of the Civil War but States Rights was the real reason the Civil war was fought.


States rights to own human beings as slaves.

You didn't complete the sentence. I did it for you.

It was about slavery and nothing else.

Tell me what right did those states want that the federal government wanted to take from them beyond the right to own human beings a slaves.

Nah. You just put in what you wanted to put in. LOL



Ok so you can't tell me what laws or rights that the south wanted or had that the federal government was depriving them or taking from them beyond the right to own human beings as slaves.

Your non answer is typical and actually answers my question. It also shows how cowardly you are that you can't admit the clear and real facts.

Carry on with your denial.

Nah. You can carry on with yours. LOL
 
Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Slavery was a part of the Civil War but States Rights was the real reason the Civil war was fought.

Yea.....a States right to own slaves


Not many Southerners owned slaves you idiot.

States Rights was the biggest concern.


Ok what right did those states have that the federal government was trying to take from them beyond owning human beings as slaves?

I've asked that question for decades yet not one conservative can answer it honestly or without deflection.

So I invite you to be the first conservative to honestly answer that question without any filibuster or deflection.

Oh slavery was a part of it but the Southern States didn't like the Fed telling them what they could couldn't do.

Slavery was barbaric and I'm glad it was one of the things that was changed because of the civil war but it still wasn't the main reason for that war.



So what was the federal government telling them to do that they didn't want to do?

The answer, the lazy people in the south didn't want to have to actually work for a living. They didn't want to stop owning human beings as slaves.

You can deny it all you want. I'm not here to get you to see reality and truth. However by denying truth you're giving me and others the opportunity to show all of cyberspace just how down right cowardly and dishonest you are. It's fun watching you make a fool of yourself and other posters make fools of you. Keep it up. I can't believe you like showing all of cyberspace how much you like to make a fool of yourself. You're great comic relief. LOL.
 
The poster already showed you where in the constitution it says that we are a united states in perpetuity. All the continuous states. Those states willingly joined our union. That means the constitution doesn't allow any part of this nation to leave the union.
Show me.
 
Slavery was a part of the Civil War but States Rights was the real reason the Civil war was fought.

Yea.....a States right to own slaves


Not many Southerners owned slaves you idiot.

States Rights was the biggest concern.


Ok what right did those states have that the federal government was trying to take from them beyond owning human beings as slaves?

I've asked that question for decades yet not one conservative can answer it honestly or without deflection.

So I invite you to be the first conservative to honestly answer that question without any filibuster or deflection.

Oh slavery was a part of it but the Southern States didn't like the Fed telling them what they could couldn't do.

Slavery was barbaric and I'm glad it was one of the things that was changed because of the civil war but it still wasn't the main reason for that war.



So what was the federal government telling them to do that they didn't want to do?

The answer, the lazy people in the south didn't want to have to actually work for a living. They didn't want to stop owning human beings as slaves.

You can deny it all you want. I'm not here to get you to see reality and truth. However by denying truth you're giving me and others the opportunity to show all of cyberspace just how down right cowardly and dishonest you are. It's fun watching you make a fool of yourself and other posters make fools of you. Keep it up. I can't believe you like showing all of cyberspace how much you like to make a fool of yourself. You're great comic relief. LOL.

LMAO Not as great as you are.

Talk about cowardly, dishonest and a fool. WOW
 
Take a look at the full title of this document which created the United States.


Note the words "PERPETUAL UNION" to which all parties consented.


articles_of_confederation.png
Which was logically extended by a "more perfect Union"; never abrogated, never renounced, never contradicted. Voluntarily joined.
The Union and its preservation was not based on Lincoln and has nothing to do with any veneration of him, though his efforts to preserve the Union are appreciated by Americans.

Lincoln had one tough row to hoe trying to keep the Union together.

He wasn't perfect by any means but I think he was the best President this country has ever had.


Bullsht, if we're going to judge people of the past by todays standards, Lincoln was a war criminal, he and his generals targeted non-combatant civilian populations. Sherman didn't follow the conventional rules of war.


.
If Trump lives up to his campaign promises about the prosecution of the war on ISIS, he will also be a war criminal. And yet his supporters enthusiastically cheered his war crime plans.

So don't give me any morally righteous bullshit about Lincoln.


**** off, US presidents of all stripes have targeted civilian non-combatant populations, up to the more recent wars. Does carpet bombing or nuking whole cities ring a bell?

I'm simply pointing to the hypocrisy of judging people of the past by todays standards. It's a fact the regressive leftist seem to have difficulty understanding.


.
 
Matter of fact,every poster here should watch all these videos here so they can see and learn what the REAL reason was for the civil war.
Here are the facts of what really happened in the civil war.
6 Civil War Myths, Busted


as one of the previous posters said so well,the winners are the ones that get to rewrite history and tell it the way they want it to be told always successful in supressing the facts because our schools are so corrupt.


you can take this to the bank that thats all indeed factual the fact our resident troll and disinformation artist WRONGwinger postd a funny he hates the truth so much.LOL every poster here should watch all these videos,here is the REAL reason we had the civil war/


of course you dont want to try and watch them all at one time of course.LOL, just the short ones are 10 to 15 minutes long a few at a time and the real lengthy ones that are over an hour long,just one a day.











Irrefutable Common Sense, Why the 'Civil War' wasn't about Slavery

Was the Civil War About Slavery?
The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

The TAX REVOLT of 1861, aka 'THE CIVIL WAR'

Lincoln's Tariff War | by Thomas J. DiLorenzo

Ron Paul talks about the Confederacy, Secession, Income tax, R E Lee, The draft, States vs Fed.

of course you dont want to try and watch them all at one time of course.LOL, just the short ones are 10 to 15 minutes long a few at a time and the real lengthy ones that are over an hour long,just one a day.
 
Civil War still divides Americans

So after 150 years, the majority of conservatives still believe the Civil War wasn't over slavery?

Why is this? Why do they believe the "States Rights" claim is sufficient enough to shield them from the fact that -- those states rights were those states preserving the right to maintain slavery -- so either way you slice it, the civil war was over slavery --


This is why whenever I see a conservative twisting themselves into pretzels to claim otherwise --- it makes their subsequent claims of not being racist look foolish.


Next time conservatives want to pretend that the Civil War wasn't over slavery -- they better travel back in time and tell all of those southern states to stop telling everyone it was over slavery

Slavery was a part of the Civil War but States Rights was the real reason the Civil war was fought.


States rights to own human beings as slaves.

You didn't complete the sentence. I did it for you.

It was about slavery and nothing else.

Tell me what right did those states want that the federal government wanted to take from them beyond the right to own human beings a slaves.
We had the same issues with “States Rights” during the Civil Rights struggle.

States insisted on a right to treat citizens as lesser citizens


Yes I remember that. I was a child at the time and couldn't understand what the big problem was.

To this day I will never understand why anyone would ever discriminate against another human being.

I guess those who have low self esteem and self worth, those who didn't do very well in school and those who didn't continue their education beyond high school and find themselves in a live they don't like, need to have someone else to put down to make themselves feel superior.

I know it's a stupid reason to be so barbaric to human beings but it's the only reason I can see for such disgusting views and treatment of human beings.
That is one of the cornerstones of Southern racism.
Apologists often point to the fact that relatively few actually owned slaves. But the rest were complicit in the profits of slavery and the dehumanization of blacks.
No matter how poor and low class you were, you were still better than the most accomplished black. You still called him boy and he called you sir.
 
"The Civil War was about secession." "Secession was about slavery."

A = B = C.

The war was about slavery. Period.


That's not what Honest Abe said when he started the war. Link said it was to keep the union together, not to free the slaves. In fact, he didn't free the slaves in rebel states until 1863 and slaves in the union weren't freed until after the war was over.
No slavery, no war.

The war was about slavery. Period.

The war was about slavery. Comma. And a bunch of other stuff. Ignoring the other stuff just means you're not very curious about history, which is almost never as neat and tidy as many like to pretend.

But hey, what ARE they teaching in government schools these days?


What other stuff?

You don't tell what that other stuff was.

Please enlighten us and don't give the states rights excuse. It was the right to own human beings as slaves. Nor will the they didn't like the federal government telling them what to do work because they didn't like the federal government telling them they couldn't own human beings as slaves.

So tell me, what is that other stuff?
 
Slavery was a part of the Civil War but States Rights was the real reason the Civil war was fought.

Yea.....a States right to own slaves


Not many Southerners owned slaves you idiot.

States Rights was the biggest concern.


Ok what right did those states have that the federal government was trying to take from them beyond owning human beings as slaves?

I've asked that question for decades yet not one conservative can answer it honestly or without deflection.

So I invite you to be the first conservative to honestly answer that question without any filibuster or deflection.

Oh slavery was a part of it but the Southern States didn't like the Fed telling them what they could couldn't do.

Slavery was barbaric and I'm glad it was one of the things that was changed because of the civil war but it still wasn't the main reason for that war.



So what was the federal government telling them to do that they didn't want to do?

The answer, the lazy people in the south didn't want to have to actually work for a living. They didn't want to stop owning human beings as slaves.

You can deny it all you want. I'm not here to get you to see reality and truth. However by denying truth you're giving me and others the opportunity to show all of cyberspace just how down right cowardly and dishonest you are. It's fun watching you make a fool of yourself and other posters make fools of you. Keep it up. I can't believe you like showing all of cyberspace how much you like to make a fool of yourself. You're great comic relief. LOL.


LOL...they didn't want to work for a living? Is that your version of the truth? Bringing that forward, evidently Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Jeff Bezos, and Howard Shultz are too fricken lazy to work for a living.
 
Matter of fact,every poster here should watch all these videos here so they can see and learn what the REAL reason was for the civil war.
Here are the facts of what really happened in the civil war.
6 Civil War Myths, Busted


as one of the previous posters said so well,the winners are the ones that get to rewrite history and tell it the way they want it to be told always successful in supressing the facts because our schools are so corrupt.


you can take this to the bank that thats all indeed factual the fact our resident troll and disinformation artist WRONGwinger postd a funny he hates the truth so much.LOL every poster here should watch all these videos,here is the REAL reason we had the civil war/


of course you dont want to try and watch them all at one time of course.LOL, just the short ones are 10 to 15 minutes long a few at a time and the real lengthy ones that are over an hour long,just one a day.











Irrefutable Common Sense, Why the 'Civil War' wasn't about Slavery

Was the Civil War About Slavery?
The Real Reason the South Seceded by Donald Livingston

The TAX REVOLT of 1861, aka 'THE CIVIL WAR'

Lincoln's Tariff War | by Thomas J. DiLorenzo

Ron Paul talks about the Confederacy, Secession, Income tax, R E Lee, The draft, States vs Fed.

of course you dont want to try and watch them all at one time of course.LOL, just the short ones are 10 to 15 minutes long a few at a time and the real lengthy ones that are over an hour long,just one a day.

Revisionist propaganda
 
Most liberals don't believe that the flag that flew off the stern of slave ships was the Stars and Stripes and not the Stars and Bars. The Portuguese were the biggest slave traders and the Spanish and the British. Yankee cotton mills depended on the slave trade and whaling ships were converted to slave ships. The Confederacy only existed for about four or five years but slavery went on in the New World for two hundred.

The US ended the slave trade in 1807. Not many slaves came in on US flagged ships
By 1861, most of the civilized nations of the world had outlawed slavery
The Confederacy thought it was a good idea to create a nation dedicated to slavery.

More like a nation dedicated to its bottom line. Slaves made sure that bottom line held firm.
But, they are inextricable. That is the reason that Marxists can claim it was economic (not that everyone who say this is a Marxist!) and States-Rightistists can claim their thing (not that everyone who says this is racist!), and then 'liberals' (whatever that can mean) can claim humanitarianism and an end to the suffering of the poor slaves (who, it must after all be admitted, would not have been greatly better off materially if born in Africa!).
The economy of the South had slavery as the foundation. Any threat to that was a threat to absolutely everything.
In "Gone With the Wind", we are propagandized into a conception of a beautiful, sophisticated, gentile South, full of elegance and grace and manners and taste. Of course they wanted to hold on to that. Their religion upheld them, with instructions on how to treat slaves found in their Bible and never condemned there. Nature, as they identified it, determined that the 'lesser' existed to be used by the 'superior'.
Seen from their side, the intrusion from the industrializing rest of a nation that they had transcended on the level of national defense and other common causes, was now an encumbrance. Better to be shed of it and make their own deals with the British and French (who, while having long ago prohibited slavery had no qualms about profiting from it).
The spirit of the time was ready to accept enormous change in America, but not the dissolution of America. Slavery was not the main motivation, certainly at the start of hostilities, for most of the Northern volunteers. It was America.
For the common Southerner, is was not about slaves, either. It was Virginia, or Georgia, etc. The patriotic devotion was to the little state, not the grand. None below the Mason-Dixon line seem to have a vision for a grand future. The rich Southerners were as the rich ever are, reactionary and back-looking. The farmers saw only their acreage.
The national economy was trying to manage the balance of payment in trade with Europe. The South was seriously upsetting this.
Thus, the equivalent of our "1%ers" back then, on both sides, had an interest in bidding the poor sheeple go die for them and their economies.
So, was the war over slavery?
Perhaps.
Was the war because of slavery?
Effectively, yes.
Were there other important elements?
And how!
 
15th post
Take a look at the full title of this document which created the United States.


Note the words "PERPETUAL UNION" to which all parties consented.


articles_of_confederation.png
Which was logically extended by a "more perfect Union"; never abrogated, never renounced, never contradicted. Voluntarily joined.
The Union and its preservation was not based on Lincoln and has nothing to do with any veneration of him, though his efforts to preserve the Union are appreciated by Americans.

Lincoln had one tough row to hoe trying to keep the Union together.

He wasn't perfect by any means but I think he was the best President this country has ever had.


Bullsht, if we're going to judge people of the past by todays standards, Lincoln was a war criminal, he and his generals targeted non-combatant civilian populations. Sherman didn't follow the conventional rules of war.


.
If Trump lives up to his campaign promises about the prosecution of the war on ISIS, he will also be a war criminal. And yet his supporters enthusiastically cheered his war crime plans.

So don't give me any morally righteous bullshit about Lincoln.


**** off, US presidents of all stripes have targeted civilian non-combatant populations, up to the more recent wars. Does carpet bombing or nuking whole cities ring a bell?

I'm simply pointing to the hypocrisy of judging people of the past by todays standards. It's a fact the regressive leftist seem to have difficulty understanding.


.

I agree. They seem to forget that many presidents have done it and will continue to do it.
 
If secession was illegal, i would probably be on the other side of the fence on this. But it wasnt illegal.








AAAAAAAnd you guys suck off tyrants. And like it.
Our Constitution made provisions for states joint the union. They said nothing about leaving it

Secession was treason


Really, it doesn't meet the Constitutional definition of treason.


.
If it wasn`t treason can we call the firing on Ft. Sumter southern terrorism? Choose one or the other or you can choose both.


Sumter was no longer within the US, the US had no right to maintain a garrison there.


.

It was Federal property not state property

S Carolina had no right to it


Sure they did, it was part of the area that was withdrawn from the union.


.
 
That is one of the cornerstones of Southern racism.
Apologists often point to the fact that relatively few actually owned slaves. But the rest were complicit in the profits of slavery and the dehumanization of blacks.
No matter how poor and low class you were, you were still better than the most accomplished black. You still called him boy and he called you sir.
Here you are again, judging Southerners through the lens of 2018, while ignoring everyone else at the time or giving them a pass by viewing them through the lens of 1861.

You obviously hate Southerners, am I right?
 
Take a look at the full title of this document which created the United States.


Note the words "PERPETUAL UNION" to which all parties consented.


articles_of_confederation.png
Which was logically extended by a "more perfect Union"; never abrogated, never renounced, never contradicted. Voluntarily joined.
The Union and its preservation was not based on Lincoln and has nothing to do with any veneration of him, though his efforts to preserve the Union are appreciated by Americans.

Lincoln had one tough row to hoe trying to keep the Union together.

He wasn't perfect by any means but I think he was the best President this country has ever had.


Bullsht, if we're going to judge people of the past by todays standards, Lincoln was a war criminal, he and his generals targeted non-combatant civilian populations. Sherman didn't follow the conventional rules of war.


.
There are many people recently and presently in power who by today's standards are war criminals. It could be considered hypocritical to attack a dead President when there are living ex-s who are at least as guilty of anything charged to Lincoln.
 
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