Mormons?

[BS Filter]

Who died and made the North American Mission Board God's authority on earth.

You may with to apply your consternation a little closer to home. And consider Mr. Smith's own historic reputation.

Why would they have to?

You still have no evidence that humans were angels.

Angels are not a different species than humans. Humans don't change into a different species. Angels are a little higher in their station in heaven than men on the earth. This does not mean they are a different species. An angel is one who ministers unto men on the earth and delivers a message from God.

Mark 12:25
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

So there is no marriage in heaven.

Nope. All marriages are perform here on earth either while alive or by proxy in our temples. No marriage is performed in heaven.

Now you're contradicting Scripture. No one is married in Heaven.

I believe what you are inferring is that marriage is never part of God's will in heaven or that it never will exist in heaven. For some I believe that to be true. But not for all.

John 12:36
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

In this verse Jesus expresses his desire that we should become the children of light. We should seek after the light of the gospel and submit unto the will of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 16:1-8
1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
5 So he called every one of his lord’s debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
6 And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

In the above verses, we see that an unfaithful steward perceiving to lose his stewardship with his lord, settled with the debtors of the lord for less than what they actually owed. Even though the unjust steward was cheating his lord, he was making good friends with those outside in hopes that when he lost his stewardship that they might receive him into their houses. The lord commended the unjust steward for his wisdom. What I wish to bring to your attention is verse 8. In that verse, Jesus contrasts the children of this world with the children of light. So the children of this world are not those who have been seeking the light of the gospel. But they do prepare better for failure than the children of light in this parable.

Now going back to whom Jesus was referring to when he was asked by the Sadducees (who did not believe the gospel of Christ and insisted that there was no resurrection). Jesus states:

Luke 20:34
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

So Jesus is talking about those who marry and are given in marriage who are among "the children of this world". Some of "the children of this world" may live very righteous lives and be worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. However, if they remain "the children of this world" up until their resurrection, they will not inherit the highest degree in the kingdom of heaven. So when they get to the lower degrees of the kingdom of heaven, they will never have accepted the priesthood and sealing power thereof which includes the sealings of celestial marriage. Because of this, they will not advance any further than the angels who are in heaven.

Jesus in his answer to the Sadducees is directing his answer to them specifically. He is telling them, yes there is a resurrection of the dead and that he is not the God of the dead but the God of the living. He is also telling them that the family relationships they have in this world will not continue for them if they don't receive the light of the gospel and become children of light, that after they resurrect, they will not receive the sealing power of the gospel but if they are righteous enough to make it to the kingdom of heaven, they progress no further than becoming only as the angels in heaven for the rest of eternity instead being sealed to their family for eternity.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:1-4
1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

The kingdom of heaven is also known as the celestial kingdom. The above verses tell us that mankind must receive the new and everlasting covenant of marriage or they cannot reach the highest degree in the celestial kingdom.

God's Plan for Families

This is nothing but gobbledygook and twisting Scripture. You're not dividing the Word of God. You're twisting Scripture to fit Mormonism. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on judgment day.

Your condemnation doesn't count on the day of judgement. Only our beloved Lord Jesus' righteous judgement will count.

Correct. I don't condemn you, the Word of God condemns you. You're one very confused and deceived person.

 

[GLASNOST]

Not yet, but you are getting close. "Not true" is your opinion. Not fact, nor correct. Its opinion only. .....

Sorry, but you are wrong here. I said “not true” to something specific that you said and I gave the “facts” on why it is “not true”. I stand by that and you may look it up if you don’t believe me or if you think it is “my opinion only”. Furthermore, Judaism does not restrict God's favour to only Jews. Christians say that only Christians may go to heaven but the Jews say anyone can go to heaven - even if you are not a Jew. So back again to my original statement ... what you said is "not true" and that is "fact", not "opinion only"

 

[Gracie]

Dude..I am not going to argue with you about this. You have your beliefs. I have mine. Everyone in this thread has their own path. Respect it. Or perhaps go start your own thread that encompasses your concerns. This one is simple. I asked Mormons a question. Are you a Mormon? No? Then...stop doing what you are doing.

I don't think I am being unreasonable asking this of you. You might think different. But there it is. Go. Stay. But be respectful.

 

[justinacolmena]

Every Mormon is a trained missionary. You are very unlikely to get an overview of Mormonism from them without the hard sell. But if that’s what you want then you did well.

What I've heard from Mormons is about Jesus Christ and the King James Bible, neither of which I find objectionable. You have to study it a little more deeply to find that the Mormons refuse the Song of Solomon as uninspired, and then they have other literature floating around that they claim to be inspired: Pearl of Great Price, Plat of Zion, etc.

This one is simple. I asked Mormons a question. Are you a Mormon? No? Then...stop doing what you are doing.

Mormon asking questions of other Mormons, then.

I don't think I am being unreasonable asking this of you. You might think different. But there it is. Go. Stay. But be respectful.

Too many rules, and there's glass breaking in the temple.

 

[Gracie]

Every Mormon is a trained missionary. You are very unlikely to get an overview of Mormonism from them without the hard sell. But if that’s what you want then you did well.

What I've heard from Mormons is about Jesus Christ and the King James Bible, neither of which I find objectionable. You have to study it a little more deeply to find that the Mormons refuse the Song of Solomon as uninspired, and then they have other literature floating around that they claim to be inspired: Pearl of Great Price, Plat of Zion, etc.

This one is simple. I asked Mormons a question. Are you a Mormon? No? Then...stop doing what you are doing.

Mormon asking questions of other Mormons, then.

I don't think I am being unreasonable asking this of you. You might think different. But there it is. Go. Stay. But be respectful.

Too many rules, and there's glass breaking in the temple.

I'm not a Mormon. Its too many rules to be respectful? Nope.

 

[Gracie]

Furthermore, Judaism does not restrict God's favour to only Jews. Christians say that only Christians may go to heaven but the Jews say anyone can go to heaven - even if you are not a Jew.

This I did not know. Appreciate the info. But where does it say anywhere that Christians say only Christians go to heaven? Is it in the bible? Or is it sometihng from some denomination and their interpretation?

 

[GLASNOST]

Dude..I am not going to argue with you about this.

Who's arguing? You said something that was untrue and I corrected you: no argument.

You have your beliefs. I have mine.

I'm not talking about beliefs. I'm only stating a fact. Isn't it fact that you want from this thread?

... stop doing what you are doing.

What am I doing? I'm helping you. That's all.

I don't think I am being unreasonable asking this of you. You might think different. But there it is. Go. Stay. But be respectful.

Did I say something disrespectful? I am not thinking different. I told you about the difference between Christianity and Judaism. That's not what I decided ..... it's the truth. Those are the laws of Christianity and Judaism, it's nothing to do with what I believe or not. Those are the facts of their religious indoctrination. I suppose they both think that is what God decided. Don't complain to me, I didn't make the rules and laws. You said you are interested in religion and I am helping you. What's the problem?

 

[GLASNOST]

..... where does it say anywhere that Christians say only Christians go to heaven? Is it in the bible? Or is it sometihng from some denomination and their interpretation?

I don't know. I was raised a Christian and that is what Christianity teaches.

 

[GLASNOST]

The teaching is that only if you are "saved" (believe in Christ) can you go to heaven.

 

[Gracie]

I'm not talking about beliefs. I'm only stating a fact. Isn't it fact that you want from this thread?

Fact vs Faith. I'm going for faith. NOT FACT.
I say the sky is blue. You say no..its a ROBIN blue. I say no..its a sky blue. Get my meaning?

 

[justinacolmena]

I'm not a Mormon. Its too many rules to be respectful? Nope.

I have to differ on that. There's too much "omertà" and gangster "respect" for the ladies, even though the Mormons aren't typically Sicilian or Italian Mafia. Just too many wives in the casino district, and the doors are held open when they ought to be closed and locked.

 

[Gracie]

Did I say something disrespectful? I am not thinking different. I told you about the difference between Christianity and Judaism. That's not what I decided ..... it's the truth. Those are the laws of Christianity and Judaism, it's nothing to do with what I believe or not. Those are the facts of their religious indoctrination. I suppose they both think that is what God decided. Don't complain to me, I didn't make the rules and laws. You said you are interested in religion and I am helping you. What's the problem?

No. I said I wanted to know MORE about WHY someone chose a particular religion. Were they raised in that religion or find it on their own after growing up and away from home and what was taught them by their parents. Read the OP again. You seem determined to demand people believe what YOU believe, what YOU claim is fact, what YOU claim is this or that.

I was taken to church. Baptist. After I grew up, I wanted nothing to do with them. I checked out other christian churches. Nah. Not for me.

"I follow the path of Grandfather. Nature is my church"~Sioux

 

[Gracie]

In short..I am Pagan Christian. Yes, there is such a thing. I said that before. I said it again. To know my path...follow the red road.

 

[GLASNOST]

I'm not talking about beliefs. I'm only stating a fact. Isn't it fact that you want from this thread?

Fact vs Faith. I'm going for faith. NOT FACT.
I say the sky is blue. You say no..its a ROBIN blue. I say no..its a sky blue. Get my meaning?

You are wrong again.
FAITH is believing what God said or wants.
FACTS are the laws or rules of the church.

I corrected you on the rules of the church. You were wrong.

 

[GLASNOST]

No. I said I wanted to know MORE about WHY someone chose a particular religion. Were they raised in that religion or find it on their own after growing up and away from home and what was taught them by their parents. Read the OP again.

You have a Mormon who is responding to your question, sort of, but not really. But you also said that all religions are the same on one point. You are wrong and I told you that you are wrong. I gave you the facts to prove you are wrong.

You seem determined to demand people believe what YOU believe, what YOU claim is fact, what YOU claim is this or that.

False. I have told you what Christianity teaches and what Judaism teaches in direct opposition to one another. What I told you are facts, not what I believe.

I was taken to church. Baptist. After I grew up, I wanted nothing to do with them. I checked out other christian churches. Nah. Not for me.

And now you want to know more. I am helping you to know more so why are you angry?

 

[Gracie]

No. I said I wanted to know MORE about WHY someone chose a particular religion. Were they raised in that religion or find it on their own after growing up and away from home and what was taught them by their parents. Read the OP again.

You have a Mormon who is responding to your question, sort of, but not really. But you also said that all religions are the same on one point. You are wrong and I told you that you are wrong. I gave you the facts to prove you are wrong.

You seem determined to demand people believe what YOU believe, what YOU claim is fact, what YOU claim is this or that.

False. I have told you what Christianity teaches and what Judaism teaches in direct opposition to one another. What I told you are facts, not what I believe.

I was taken to church. Baptist. After I grew up, I wanted nothing to do with them. I checked out other christian churches. Nah. Not for me.

And now you want to know more. I am helping you to know more so why are you angry?

I'm not angry. I just don't follow your path and nothing..NOTHING you say will make me change course. As I said..I am curious but I am not willing to be forced or "talked into" following your beliefs.

 

[GLASNOST]

I'm not angry. I just don't follow your path and nothing..NOTHING you say will make me change course. As I said..I am curious ...

Well, you have to decide - if you are curious then you must accept information but if "NOTHING I say will make you change course" then why are you asking questions if you do not accept the answers?

..... I am not willing to be forced or "talked into" following your beliefs.

I haven't even told you my beliefs. I am only giving you the facts that you have asked for.

You have a problem and I assume that you are looking for guidance in life. Some people can find their own way and others seek it in established churches and cults. But for you to find what you are looking for you ought to be able to distinguish between faith & fact and belief, non-belief, & disbelief. If you cannot understand those things then you may never find the guidance needed for contentment in your life.

 

[LittleNipper]

Been there done that. Made me believe in his calling as a Prophet of God even more.

Your faith in your Prophet Joe will do nothing to save your soul. By the way, which Mormon denomination do you attend and how do you know which is correct and not apostate?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church)	16,565,036[9]	98.0110%
Community of Christ (RLDS)	250,301	1.5038%
The Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite)	23,200	0.1394%
Church of Jesus Christ with the Elijah Message	12,500	0.0751%
Apostolic United Brethren	10,000	0.0601%
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (FLDS)	10,000	0.0601%
Restoration Branches	10,000	0.0601%
Church of Christ (Hedrickites)	7,310	0.0439%
Fellowships of the remnants	5,000	0.0300%
Church of Christ (Fettingite)	2,450	0.0147%
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite)	300	0.0018%
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite)

 

[LittleNipper]

Who died and made the North American Mission Board God's authority on earth.

You may with to apply your consternation a little closer to home. And consider Mr. Smith's own historic reputation.

Why would they have to?

You still have no evidence that humans were angels.

Angels are not a different species than humans. Humans don't change into a different species. Angels are a little higher in their station in heaven than men on the earth. This does not mean they are a different species. An angel is one who ministers unto men on the earth and delivers a message from God.

Mark 12:25
25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

So there is no marriage in heaven.

Nope. All marriages are perform here on earth either while alive or by proxy in our temples. No marriage is performed in heaven.

Now you're contradicting Scripture. No one is married in Heaven.

I believe what you are inferring is that marriage is never part of God's will in heaven or that it never will exist in heaven. For some I believe that to be true. But not for all.

John 12:36
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

In this verse Jesus expresses his desire that we should become the children of light. We should seek after the light of the gospel and submit unto the will of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 16:1-8
1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
5 So he called every one of his lord’s debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
6 And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

In the above verses, we see that an unfaithful steward perceiving to lose his stewardship with his lord, settled with the debtors of the lord for less than what they actually owed. Even though the unjust steward was cheating his lord, he was making good friends with those outside in hopes that when he lost his stewardship that they might receive him into their houses. The lord commended the unjust steward for his wisdom. What I wish to bring to your attention is verse 8. In that verse, Jesus contrasts the children of this world with the children of light. So the children of this world are not those who have been seeking the light of the gospel. But they do prepare better for failure than the children of light in this parable.

Now going back to whom Jesus was referring to when he was asked by the Sadducees (who did not believe the gospel of Christ and insisted that there was no resurrection). Jesus states:

Luke 20:34
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

So Jesus is talking about those who marry and are given in marriage who are among "the children of this world". Some of "the children of this world" may live very righteous lives and be worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. However, if they remain "the children of this world" up until their resurrection, they will not inherit the highest degree in the kingdom of heaven. So when they get to the lower degrees of the kingdom of heaven, they will never have accepted the priesthood and sealing power thereof which includes the sealings of celestial marriage. Because of this, they will not advance any further than the angels who are in heaven.

Jesus in his answer to the Sadducees is directing his answer to them specifically. He is telling them, yes there is a resurrection of the dead and that he is not the God of the dead but the God of the living. He is also telling them that the family relationships they have in this world will not continue for them if they don't receive the light of the gospel and become children of light, that after they resurrect, they will not receive the sealing power of the gospel but if they are righteous enough to make it to the kingdom of heaven, they progress no further than becoming only as the angels in heaven for the rest of eternity instead being sealed to their family for eternity.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:1-4
1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

The kingdom of heaven is also known as the celestial kingdom. The above verses tell us that mankind must receive the new and everlasting covenant of marriage or they cannot reach the highest degree in the celestial kingdom.

God's Plan for Families

This is nothing but gobbledygook and twisting Scripture. You're not dividing the Word of God. You're twisting Scripture to fit Mormonism. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes on judgment day.

Your condemnation doesn't count on the day of judgement. Only our beloved Lord Jesus' righteous judgement will count.

Just remember this when you imagine that attending the "right church" counts for anything.

 

[LittleNipper]

I believe what you are inferring is that marriage is never part of God's will in heaven or that it never will exist in heaven. For some I believe that to be true. But not for all.

John 12:36
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

In this verse Jesus expresses his desire that we should become the children of light. We should seek after the light of the gospel and submit unto the will of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luke 16:1-8
1 And he said also unto his disciples, There was a certain rich man, which had a steward; and the same was accused unto him that he had wasted his goods.
2 And he called him, and said unto him, How is it that I hear this of thee? give an account of thy stewardship; for thou mayest be no longer steward.
3 Then the steward said within himself, What shall I do? for my lord taketh away from me the stewardship: I cannot dig; to beg I am ashamed.
4 I am resolved what to do, that, when I am put out of the stewardship, they may receive me into their houses.
5 So he called every one of his lord’s debtors unto him, and said unto the first, How much owest thou unto my lord?
6 And he said, An hundred measures of oil. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and sit down quickly, and write fifty.
7 Then said he to another, And how much owest thou? And he said, An hundred measures of wheat. And he said unto him, Take thy bill, and write fourscore.
8 And the lord commended the unjust steward, because he had done wisely: for the children of this world are in their generation wiser than the children of light.

In the above verses, we see that an unfaithful steward perceiving to lose his stewardship with his lord, settled with the debtors of the lord for less than what they actually owed. Even though the unjust steward was cheating his lord, he was making good friends with those outside in hopes that when he lost his stewardship that they might receive him into their houses. The lord commended the unjust steward for his wisdom. What I wish to bring to your attention is verse 8. In that verse, Jesus contrasts the children of this world with the children of light. So the children of this world are not those who have been seeking the light of the gospel. But they do prepare better for failure than the children of light in this parable.

Now going back to whom Jesus was referring to when he was asked by the Sadducees (who did not believe the gospel of Christ and insisted that there was no resurrection). Jesus states:

Luke 20:34
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

So Jesus is talking about those who marry and are given in marriage who are among "the children of this world". Some of "the children of this world" may live very righteous lives and be worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven. However, if they remain "the children of this world" up until their resurrection, they will not inherit the highest degree in the kingdom of heaven. So when they get to the lower degrees of the kingdom of heaven, they will never have accepted the priesthood and sealing power thereof which includes the sealings of celestial marriage. Because of this, they will not advance any further than the angels who are in heaven.

Jesus in his answer to the Sadducees is directing his answer to them specifically. He is telling them, yes there is a resurrection of the dead and that he is not the God of the dead but the God of the living. He is also telling them that the family relationships they have in this world will not continue for them if they don't receive the light of the gospel and become children of light, that after they resurrect, they will not receive the sealing power of the gospel but if they are righteous enough to make it to the kingdom of heaven, they progress no further than becoming only as the angels in heaven for the rest of eternity instead being sealed to their family for eternity.

Doctrine and Covenants 131:1-4
1 In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees;
2 And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage];
3 And if he does not, he cannot obtain it.
4 He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

The kingdom of heaven is also known as the celestial kingdom. The above verses tell us that mankind must receive the new and everlasting covenant of marriage or they cannot reach the highest degree in the celestial kingdom.

God's Plan for Families

Here is what I think of Mormonism (not directed at Mormons personally but THEIR RELIGION). Mormonism was founded by ONE man claiming to have had a liaison with GOD and an American angel who was once a man. In this journey of his, Mr. Smith found plates, translated the said plates (using a hat), gave the plates back thereby eliminating the evidence, found a book of Abraham written in Egyptian, and translated this Egyptian (which we now know to be without a doubt the book of Egyptian funeral rights and totally contrary to the "fact" Mr. Smith alleged). To top it all off, Mr. Smith set up Marriage to more than one wife as a key element for becoming a prophet, established his church of Latter Day Saints, wrote the Doctrines and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price.

Additionally, Mr. Smith cast doubt on the inerrancy of The Bible when compared to the Book of Mormon, claiming superiority of the translation of the book of Mormon over the Bible. The RELIGION established under MORMONISM is primarily focused on the Mormon family unit and the belief that we are all spirit children of GOD the Father and some mother goddess (including the MESSIAH and LUCIFER), and that our role is to come down to planet earth to prove our loyalty to GOD and thereby become full fledged gods ourselves. The entire simple plan of SALVATION seemingly plays second fiddle to Mormon Family Values, even to the point of trying to provide Jesus a wife. Unashamedly The GOD of MORMONISM cannot even create without pre-existing elements that apparently always existed without GOD.

And so MORMONISM either knowingly or unknowingly, disparages the Bible as being questionable and missing what Mormons deem important extraneous data. Disparages GOD --- calling into question HIS creative abilities and a HIS need for other deities and linking HIM as related generically to imperfect beings capable of SIN. Disparages the Messiah by linking HIM to Lucifer as both related and a "created/birthed" spirit --- capable of being SINFUL. Disparages all Christian churches because they do not regard the book of Mormon nor Mr. Joseph Smith as GOD's prophet. AND disparages the free gift of salvation through Christ by setting up doctrines and covenants of expectations which one must follow in order to enter heaven and not be relegated to some low level eternal existence in the next life.

ALL Mormons should make a prayerful attempt at reading the Bible cover to cover WITHOUT any outside influence of Mormon doctrine. My humble opinion is that Mr. Smith was a lair and a fraud, or a lair and demon possessed. I feel the very fact that he met such an ignoramus ending should be a dire warning to anyone presuming to be a prophet and the founder of the church at the expense of BIBLICAL HISTORIC CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE.

Congratulations, you are officially an anti-mormon.

I don't consider myself anti-mormon. If I were, I wouldn't be trying to get you to see the error of MORMONISM. Love the sinner --- not the sin.