Zone1 More speculation on the point that Most People End up in Hell

[Clyde 154]

You are allowed to believe that.

I do.

Long thought. Thinking. Even some studying followed by more long thought

I was raised with some religion. But I ultimately rejected religion. I came to believe in God for my own reasons.

Your question doesn’t make sense.

Once again, I believe in God. I don’t believe that God believes in religion.

I don’t buy that.

Of course there would. Morality isn’t the sole province of religious belief

Again........you believe in God, why? Because of the revelations found in the Holy Books revealed by God, your belief could not exist void of these revelations as gods do not exist in nature, it's tooth and nail from cradle to grave, living by instinct that is innately designed into whatever DNA that exists in any particular species......it all plays out according to natural design. Man is the only creature on earth that is designed with an innate concept of his own mortality with the capacity for critical independent thinking and reasoning that can control their mortality or fate and the fate of others.....i.e.., man can plan and reason between right and wrong and how that reasoning might effect not only himself but others.......its called FREE WILL.

Animals do not comprehend right and wrong........that is why there is no SIN in the animal kingdom, for sin to exist one must have the capacity to reason between right or wrong........or discern the LAW. Without Law, sin cannot be imputed (Rom. 5:13-21) That's why children and the poor in spirit/mind are innocent and inherit the kingdom of God..........they can't comprehend the laws of right and wrong, until they reach the age of reason, some never reach that age, those born with a mental limitation. (Matthew 5:3, 19:14)


And "free will" is the reason that Hell exists, it was designed by God (Hell is a place PREPARED for the Devil and his angels -- Matthew 25:41)........ Satan did not create his own place of punishment in eternal fire.....he is not omnipotent like the Father because he was created by God and created with free will. Angels are spirit beings like God (Heb. 1:14) Angel means messenger, or one sent with a message, they were created as God's messengers (Heb. 2:2) They were part of creation, they are created beings (Col. 1:16-17) created with the rest of the world (Ps. 148:2-5)

Satan was once an angel who lead a rebellion in heaven against the archangels of God (Rev.12:7)........he did this because he was created with free will, just like men. (2 Peter 2:4). They are not to be worshiped (Rev. 19:10)



The historical books........are the reason your belief exist, yet you in a contradictory fashion reject the same revelations that gave birth to your faith? Circular Logic....i.e., a logical fallacy, as that same source to your faith further instructs....."......you foolish person, do you need to be shown that faith/belief without works is USELESS"? -- James 2:20

Why is faith useless void of works? Its based upon "circular reasoning".........you only end up in the same location in which you began, you have went in a circle without actually moving anywhere. "The demons believe and TREMBLE!" -- James 2:19...........your belief by itself will result with you having the same punishment as reserved for demons.

The lawless.......those who do not believe the Laws established by God.........will face judgment one day, and they will hear, "....depart from Me, I know you not, those who practice lawlessness" -- Matthew 7:23

 

[BackAgain]

Again........you believe in God, why?

Why I believe in God isn’t relevant. It is sufficient that I do.

 

[nomadic5]

Why I believe in God isn’t relevant. It is sufficient that I do.

not a bad response. It isn't called Faith for no reason.

which is not to say that faith and reason are mutually exclusive. In fact, it only makes logical sense there is an Intelligent Designer behind this world... nature, etc

 

[BackAgain]

not a bad response. It isn't called Faith for no reason.

which is not to say that faith and reason are mutually exclusive. In fact, it only makes logical sense there is an Intelligent Designer behind this world... nature, etc

I contemplated the incredibly long odds that the entire universe could simply have come into existence in this precise manner absent causation. I can’t see my way around it.

In my view, not only is it necessary that it was initially created, but the fact that it follows rules which we have become able (to some degree) to perceive constitutes further evidence to my mind that it didn’t happen by absolutely random chance.

 

[nomadic5]

I contemplated the incredibly long odds that the entire universe could simply have come into existence in this precise manner absent causation. I can’t see my way around it.

In my view, not only is it necessary that it was initially created, but the fact that it follows rules which we have become able (to some degree) to perceive constitutes further evidence to my mind that it didn’t happen by absolutely random chance.

Even if everything did result from "random chance"

who caused the random chance stuff to happen? Why does anything at all exist?

 

[BackAgain]

Even if everything did result from "random chance"

who caused the random chance stuff to happen? Why does anything at all exist?

Youre on the money. The evidence suggests that it didn’t ( and couldn’t have ) happened just by random chance. Causation implies the existence of a creator.

 

[hadit]

I find the question of hell to be fascinating, especially when I hear things like, "A loving God wouldn't send anyone to hell, would He?". Think of it, when you're in college, you are expected to maintain a certain grade average or you will likely face expulsion, at least that's the way it used to be. It was totally your choice, you could choose to party all day, every day, or you could choose to study, do the homework, and pass the tests. All totally your choice. If you chose to party your time away and fail all your classes, did you then complain that the college kicked you out on the basis that you were wasting their time? Would anyone who saw you doing that agree that the college was not being reasonable, especially as you were aware of the rules when you started? In fact, would not your friends who were watching you try to warn you that you were in danger of being kicked out and that you needed to get your act together?

God doesn't enjoy seeing people enter hell, He doesn't want them to go there. He wants so badly for them all to be with Him for eternity that He sent His own son to pay their penalty, all they have to do is accept it. Yet there are many who look at living in eternal punishment and blame God for it.

 

[hadit]

Youre on the money. The evidence suggests that it didn’t have and couldn’t have happened just by random chance. Causation implies the existence of a creator.

This is true. Tell an evolutionist that the computer on your desktop randomly assembled itself from elements that randomly were in the vicinity of each other. He will insist that it could not have done that because of the obvious appearance of design yet will simultaneously insist that all of the obvious design we see in nature occurred completely randomly, with no direction or initiation from anyone. This, despite the fact that the simplest single living cell is orders of magnitude more complex than the most advanced computer on any desk in the world.

 

[nomadic5]

I find the question of hell to be fascinating, especially when I hear things like, "A loving God wouldn't send anyone to hell, would He?". Think of it, when you're in college, you are expected to maintain a certain grade average or you will likely face expulsion, at least that's the way it used to be. It was totally your choice, you could choose to party all day, every day, or you could choose to study, do the homework, and pass the tests. All totally your choice. If you chose to party your time away and fail all your classes, did you then complain that the college kicked you out on the basis that you were wasting their time? Would anyone who saw you doing that agree that the college was not being reasonable, especially as you were aware of the rules when you started? In fact, would not your friends who were watching you try to warn you that you were in danger of being kicked out and that you needed to get your act together?

God doesn't enjoy seeing people enter hell, He doesn't want them to go there. He wants so badly for them all to be with Him for eternity that He sent His own son to pay their penalty, all they have to do is accept it. Yet there are many who look at living in eternal punishment and blame God for it.

well said

can't believe I am saying that about one of YOUR posts...

will wonders ever cease?

 

[nomadic5]

. Tell an evolutionist that the computer on your desktop randomly assembled itself from elements that randomly were in the vicinity of each other.

And you will be locked up immediately LOL

(despite there not being many "facilities" like that anymore..)

 

[hadit]

well said

can't believe I am saying that about one of YOUR posts...

will wonders ever cease?

God is much bigger than politics. I have found common ground with Christians who hold extremely different political views than I do, and as long as we remember that, we can get along as family, which is what God wants.

 

[nomadic5]

God is much bigger than politics. I have found common ground with Christians who hold extremely different political views than I do, and as long as we remember that, we can get along as family, which is what God wants.

again, will wonders ever cease?

 

[hadit]

And you will be locked up immediately LOL

(despite there not being many "facilities" like that anymore..)

But, we have to remember to give it a LOT of time. We can't say we watched it form over an hour, we have to say we found traces of the elements involved in making the computer, and postulate that over billions of years, they came together to form the parts themselves. Just as in the Cambrian explosion, we simply explain away the lack of transient fossils by saying we don't know why they're not there, but we're certain that the elements were pushed together over vast periods of time, combining and recombining until at last they formed to computer we see today. Then, we can go into the landfills and find the carcasses of earlier computers and show how the models obviously hit a period of rapid evolution, resulting in what we see today.

Yes, totally absurd, but is it any more absurd than insisting that the vastly complex, interdependent lifeforms we see today that require the simultaneous working together of organisms that CANNOT exist without each other all somehow randomly formed themselves?

 

[nomadic5]

But, we have to remember to give it a LOT of time. We can't say we watched it form over an hour, we have to say we found traces of the elements involved in making the computer, and postulate that over billions of years, they came together to form the parts themselves. Just as in the Cambrian explosion, we simply explain away the lack of transient fossils by saying we don't know why they're not there, but we're certain that the elements were pushed together over vast periods of time, combining and recombining until at last they formed to computer we see today. Then, we can go into the landfills and find the carcasses of earlier computers and show how the models obviously hit a period of rapid evolution, resulting in what we see today.

Yes, totally absurd, but is it any more absurd than insisting that the vastly complex, interdependent lifeforms we see today that require the simultaneous working together of organisms that CANNOT exist without each other all somehow randomly formed themselves?

Well, who ever said that atheists were always logical and consistent?

It takes more faith to believe their worldview than to believe that of the Christian.

 

[hadit]

Well, who ever said that atheists were always logical and consistent?

It takes more faith to believe their worldview than to believe that of the Christian.

Ultimately, it absolutely comes down to faith.

I mean, going back to the computer analogy. If I were to ask an evolutionist to tell me how the computer's parts came together, how the materials were formed and purified, but he had to take the most obvious factor, the human, out of his response, what would he say? Basically, that's what the evolutionist has done with life on earth. They have looked at it, seen the obvious design involved, and said, "We have to figure out how this came to be, but first we have to emphatically reject the most logical, simplest, and most supportable explanation, namely that a designer designed this whole thing".

 

[nomadic5]

Ultimately, it absolutely comes down to faith.

I have faith that if most Americans ever start fighting for their true country, as opposed to the phony one the leftists are trying to implement

America can be saved.

(this believe is like all my beliefs: based on reason/logic)

 

[Clyde 154]

Why I believe in God isn’t relevant. It is sufficient that I do.

The perfect example of "Circular Reasoning"........you keep ending up where you began by repeating the same supposed logic over and over...but your premise is proven to be false. No, Belief alone is not sufficient according to the source from which your "belief" originated..........the Word of God. "...demons believe and tremble...." James 2:19 You are no better off than the demons of Satan....with your belief. You can believe and still practice "lawlessness"....i.e, sin. Satan "believed" in God, as he was one of God's archangels,but was cast from heaven for the sin of Pride along with 1/3 of the angels in heaven (Rev. 12:9, Luke 10:18) Sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4)

Jesus died for everyone.......even you. (2 Cor. 5:14-15) One of the conditions is stated clearly........."...that those who live, should no longer live for themselves....." Implied is one should live for God's only Son who gave His life that you might live.

You refuse to even attempt to read and comprehend the truth......the Word of God (John 17:17) strange since that is the foundation of your faith......you have most likely heard all your life that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." (John 3:16).

Belief is not something done to you........its something that you do, even that is a WORK, whether realized and accepted or not, because it is an action on your part. Indeed, it's something you do (the evidence? your posts stating as much). Your belief is something that indeed is required but faith alone does not grant you salvation, according to James Chapter 2.

"This is a work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent (Jesus).......(John 6:29) Even God declares that work is necessary to salvation. But.......Faith/Belief is not the only thing required. We are told that we, ".......must walk in the good works demonstrated by Jesus Christ......." -- Eph. 2:8-10

"Not everyone one who says to Me, Lord!, Lord!.......shall enter the kingdom of Heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in Heaven." -- Matthew 7:21 "Why do you call Me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" -- Luke 6:46


It's simple, clear and unambiguous, "What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith/belief, but does not have works? thus.....also, faith/belief by itself, if it does not have works is dead." -- James 2:14,17

 

[BackAgain]

The perfect example of "Circular Reasoning"........you keep ending up where you began by repeating the same supposed logic over and over...but your premise is proven to be false.

No my premise hasn’t been proved false. That’s just silly spin with no basis in reality You’re offering.

No, Belief alone is not sufficient according to the source from which your "belief" originated..........the Word of God.

My source is not the word of God. Your supposition is baseless.

The rest of your post is valueless.

I believe in God as the Creator. I don’t believe that God believes in religion. I don’t believe in religion, either.

So, citing to the Bible only establishes what YOU already believe. It doesn’t mean much to me.

 

[Clyde 154]

No my premise hasn’t been proved false. That’s just silly spin with no basis in reality You’re offering.

My source is not the word of God. Your supposition is baseless.

The rest of your post is valueless.

I believe in God as the Creator. I don’t believe that God believes in religion. I don’t believe in religion, either.

So, citing to the Bible only establishes what YOU already believe. It doesn’t mean much to me.

So........you are suggesting that you simply believe in God with no historical record whatsoever.....you were born with a belief in God in an innate fashion.......Its a miracle and you are law unto yourself. And you and you alone "KNOW" the mind of God.

If not...........present your source that no one ever taught you or instructed you that made you cognitively connect with the God of Creation. There is no such animal. Faith in God does not exist void of the transcending record from some historical source........even if its an oral history such as those passed down by native Americans.

Christianity is the only religion on earth that can't be refuted by Applied Science and history actual........all the other so called religions are of human conception.

I still declare that your faith is useless........void of actually serving the God that you say you believe in. Truth must be of a calibrated methodology, or its not truth at all.......its all SUBJECTIVE and unverifiable. You present the perfect example.......of a logical fallacy. I suspect that you will never present any source to your faith..........it will kill your subjective claims.

 

[BackAgain]

So........you are suggesting that you simply believe in God with no historical record whatsoever.....you were born with a belief in God in an innate fashion.......Its a miracle. If not...........present your source that no one ever taught you or instructed you that made your cognitively connect with the God of Creation. There is no such animal. Faith in God does not exist void of the transcending record from some historical source.

No. Your guess work sucks. In fact, I already told you how I came to my own view. Why would it matter to you?