Mitt steps in it again

[onecut39]

Do the math on the rate of return required for Mitt's investment, then let's discuss what investment vehicle has produced those kinds of return in the past 20 years.

It it is self directed it can directly to deals. Given his access to the kinds of deals Bain did, it isn't out of reach. Besides, now I am seeing 20 to 100 million. Which is it.

You bastards can't even figure out how badly you want to lie.

Allowing the owner of an IRA to invest in private equity sounds exactly like the kind of loopholes Romney would claim to be opposed to.

Of course - "loopholes" aren't "loopholes" to the people that benefit from them.

All IRAs casn be invested in whatever you want. The problem I am having is whether he has to follow the same rules as I do when taking it out. If he does have the same rules as I then he is stealing the treasury blind.

I cannot see how that would be, He could clear it up with released tax forms.

 

[Listening]

It it is self directed it can directly to deals. Given his access to the kinds of deals Bain did, it isn't out of reach. Besides, now I am seeing 20 to 100 million. Which is it.

You bastards can't even figure out how badly you want to lie.

Allowing the owner of an IRA to invest in private equity sounds exactly like the kind of loopholes Romney would claim to be opposed to.

Of course - "loopholes" aren't "loopholes" to the people that benefit from them.

All IRAs casn be invested in whatever you want. The problem I am having is whether he has to follow the same rules as I do when taking it out. If he does have the same rules as I then he is stealing the treasury blind.

I cannot see how that would be, He could clear it up with released tax forms.

What the hell are you talking about.

What rules do you have ?

You pay taxes on the distributions as if they were income....as you said, the idea was that in later years, that income would be reduced and your burden would be reduced.

Romney will pay according the tax codes.

 

[Pho_King]

This raises not only ethical questions but legal ones as well. I could only put $6000 a year in my IRA. How did Mitt manage to get this much into his?

Tax free of course.

(I forgot, I am one of "those people")



Top Democrats Are Making Mitt’s Enormous IRA An Even Bigger Liability | TPMDC

Those of us that cheer and admire success, holding the desire to succeed as a value, are proud of Romney. And those for whom success is a dirty word, and who thrive on tearing down what better men have built, hate him. It's simple.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

An IRA is not a savings account. Once you put money into an IRA it gets invested. If you are wise about investments it can grow quite quickly.z

The money put into an IRA and the proceeds from investment are tax free, until you take it out. They are tax free to Mitt Romney and to you too. The purpose of making this kind of investment tax free until you take it out was to encourage leaving the money in and reinvesting it. Now, of course, investing and saving are wrong. All money should be redistributed as soon as earned with nothing invested or saved.

IRA contributions are capped at 6k a year.

Hard to imagine how anyone could amass $100,000,000 with that kind of annual contribution limit.

Just as a reference point - get to $100,000,000 over 30 years at 6k a year requires an annual return of 32% - every year - for 30 years in a row. That analysis is very conservative, though, as the contribution limit used to be quite a bit lower than 6k.


He almost certainly utilized some loophole to move a massive some into the tax advantages IRA account.

I can't believe this. You really don't know.

You have an IRA, you put 50,000 in to that IRA, you get a tax deferment on $6,000 and pay taxes on the balance. They money made from investing the entire $50,000 is tax free as long as it stays in the IRA as investment income. IF you take money out of the IRA before retirement, you pay tax on what you took out for the year in which you made the withdrawal. Do that for 30 years. In fact, put in $100,000 a year not $50,000 a year.

You seem to be under the impression that once you reach your maximum of $6,000 you are prohibited from any more IRA deposits. That's not true and that's where you are going wrong. The cap isn't a cap on deposits, it's a cap on tax deferrment.

IF you also leave your IRA to the management of a mutual fund manager you will make less money than if you guide the investment yourself. Of course if you make a mistake, you lose your own money.

Excess SEP-IRA contributions are subject to a 6% excise tax PLUS ordinary INCOME tax. The fact that your money is taxed at income tax rates TWICE - going in, AND going out - in addition to the 6% excise - obliterates any tax advantage the account has.


Do the math.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

It it is self directed it can directly to deals. Given his access to the kinds of deals Bain did, it isn't out of reach. Besides, now I am seeing 20 to 100 million. Which is it.

You bastards can't even figure out how badly you want to lie.

Allowing the owner of an IRA to invest in private equity sounds exactly like the kind of loopholes Romney would claim to be opposed to.

Of course - "loopholes" aren't "loopholes" to the people that benefit from them.

All IRAs casn be invested in whatever you want. The problem I am having is whether he has to follow the same rules as I do when taking it out. If he does have the same rules as I then he is stealing the treasury blind.

I cannot see how that would be, He could clear it up with released tax forms.

Yeah but Romney may have been able to define the cost of what he was putting it.

Say I buy 100 shares of company X at 100 each for 10,000. Then I sell them to my own IRA for 10 dollars each. I've just skirted the contribution limit. According to this article: The Secret Behind Romney - that may essentially be what Romney did - using Bain to provide his IRA ownership of corporations at a price much lower than the actual value. It was probably legal - but its the very kind of loophole Romney is supposed to be against.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's possible that Romney made non-deductible contributions to his IRA, which are unlimited. That would be done for the purpose of tax deferment of the growth.

I'm surprised none of you rightwingers who fancy yourselves financial geniuses came up with that defense.

It may not apply here of course.

 

[Warrior102]

It's possible that Romney made non-deductible contributions to his IRA, which are unlimited. That would be done for the purpose of tax deferment of the growth.

I'm surprised none of you rightwingers who fancy yourselves financial geniuses came up with that defense.

It may not apply here of course.

It might be possible that Romney's investments are none of your ******* business.

Just a wild guess....

It might also be possible that Romney doesn't give a rat's ass what you ******* thing.

Another distinct possibility.

Put your mouth back on Obama's balls now and STFU

 

[8537]

It's possible that Romney made non-deductible contributions to his IRA, which are unlimited. That would be done for the purpose of tax deferment of the growth.

I'm surprised none of you rightwingers who fancy yourselves financial geniuses came up with that defense.

It may not apply here of course.

It might be possible that Romney's investments are none of your ******* business.

Just a wild guess....

It might also be possible that Romney doesn't give a rat's ass what you ******* thing.

Another distinct possibility.

Put your mouth back on Obama's balls now and STFU

Yet there you are, telling us you should get to see what grade Obama got in freshman literature.

 

[Warrior102]

Yet there you are, telling us you should get to see what grade Obama got in freshman literature.

I personally don't give a **** about the outgoing failures past.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

It's possible that Romney made non-deductible contributions to his IRA, which are unlimited. That would be done for the purpose of tax deferment of the growth.

I'm surprised none of you rightwingers who fancy yourselves financial geniuses came up with that defense.

It may not apply here of course.

Excess contributions to SEP-IRA's are taxed as income and a 6% excise is added - and then they are taxed again as income on withdrawal along with the rest of the contributions and earnings.

It makes no sense whatsoever to make excess contributions to a SEP-IRA.

 

[NYcarbineer]

It's possible that Romney made non-deductible contributions to his IRA, which are unlimited. That would be done for the purpose of tax deferment of the growth.

I'm surprised none of you rightwingers who fancy yourselves financial geniuses came up with that defense.

It may not apply here of course.

Excess contributions to SEP-IRA's are taxed as income and a 6% excise is added - and then they are taxed again as income on withdrawal along with the rest of the contributions and earnings.

It makes no sense whatsoever to make excess contributions to a SEP-IRA.

Is that what he has? When did we start talking about SEP IRA's?

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

It's possible that Romney made non-deductible contributions to his IRA, which are unlimited. That would be done for the purpose of tax deferment of the growth.

I'm surprised none of you rightwingers who fancy yourselves financial geniuses came up with that defense.

It may not apply here of course.

Excess contributions to SEP-IRA's are taxed as income and a 6% excise is added - and then they are taxed again as income on withdrawal along with the rest of the contributions and earnings.

It makes no sense whatsoever to make excess contributions to a SEP-IRA.

Is that what he has? When did we start talking about SEP IRA's?

Yep. Under Bain.

The excess contribution rules are the same for a traditional IRA.

 

[buckeye45_73]

This raises not only ethical questions but legal ones as well. I could only put $6000 a year in my IRA. How did Mitt manage to get this much into his?

Tax free of course.

(I forgot, I am one of "those people")



Top Democrats Are Making Mitt’s Enormous IRA An Even Bigger Liability | TPMDC

You mean he successfuly managed his money ?

Wow....we wouldn't want a president who knew how to do that.

Vote for Obama.

Why is it conservatives will excuse their own no matter what the offense.. Too bad you guys are stuck with this walking disaster.

Me? I am enjoying it.

You are a dishonest piece of shit. We criticise our folks You NEVER do. PROJECTION

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Turns out he pulled the same scam in 02. Filed his taxes with Utah as him home state and said he had filed in Mass AND Utah as his home state. Just like now, this weasel said, "You just have trust me".

Then, because he was caught, he filed an amended return showing Mass as his other home state.

Seems like he does everything retroactively.

 

[whitehall]

You almost gotta laugh about the way the left gleans it's information from TAX EXEMPT Media Matters and then criticizes a smart capitalist for taking advantage of the tax system administered by fools like Barney Frank who gave us the collapse of Fannie Mae while he was telling Americans that "Fannie was fine".

 

[Katzndogz]

It's possible that Romney made non-deductible contributions to his IRA, which are unlimited. That would be done for the purpose of tax deferment of the growth.

I'm surprised none of you rightwingers who fancy yourselves financial geniuses came up with that defense.

It may not apply here of course.

Excess contributions to SEP-IRA's are taxed as income and a 6% excise is added - and then they are taxed again as income on withdrawal along with the rest of the contributions and earnings.

It makes no sense whatsoever to make excess contributions to a SEP-IRA.

Of course it makes sense. Like any IRA makes sense. Withdrawals are made after retirement when there is no longer any income from working. The tax rate is much lower. While the contributions are taxed, the growth is not.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You almost gotta laugh about the way the left gleans it's information from TAX EXEMPT Media Matters and then criticizes a smart capitalist for taking advantage of the tax system administered by fools like Barney Frank who gave us the collapse of Fannie Mae while he was telling Americans that "Fannie was fine".

Please diagram the above sentence.

 

[PredFan]

Yeah because Romney has been doing things illegally now for many many years and the IRS never ever found out about it. Oh, but the left wing loonies found out didn't they?

This explains why you morons are democrats. If you had at least two functioning synapses in your brain you wouldn't believe shit so stupid.

 

[Peach]

An IRA is not a savings account. Once you put money into an IRA it gets invested. If you are wise about investments it can grow quite quickly.

The money put into an IRA and the proceeds from investment are tax free, until you take it out. They are tax free to Mitt Romney and to you too. The purpose of making this kind of investment tax free until you take it out was to encourage leaving the money in and reinvesting it. Now, of course, investing and saving are wrong. All money should be redistributed as soon as earned with nothing invested or saved.

Could you pleas show me how this is done? I am allowed only one IRA and am limited to putting no more than $6000 per year into it.

Could you tell me how this could grow to $100.000. 000 in my lifetime? Take your time, I'll wait.

Mutual funds have higher risks, but can offer better returns. Romney's IRA probably doesn't want peons investing. Mitt Romney's big returns are less "wise investing" than connections, the IRAs with the highest returns are open to the wealthiest in many cases. Still, research can increase the chance of better profit, so choose after looking at what is available.

 

[tererun]

An IRA is not a savings account. Once you put money into an IRA it gets invested. If you are wise about investments it can grow quite quickly.

The money put into an IRA and the proceeds from investment are tax free, until you take it out. They are tax free to Mitt Romney and to you too. The purpose of making this kind of investment tax free until you take it out was to encourage leaving the money in and reinvesting it. Now, of course, investing and saving are wrong. All money should be redistributed as soon as earned with nothing invested or saved.

Could you pleas show me how this is done? I am allowed only one IRA and am limited to putting no more than $6000 per year into it.

Could you tell me how this could grow to $100.000. 000 in my lifetime? Take your time, I'll wait.

Well, let us see. If you could create multimillion dollar companies it would be quite easy. You put in your 6 per year, then you create a company you invest your money in. Then you use your own money and your friends in the stock market to push investments in that company. Then when you have grown your IRA you have your friends in investment companies push your stocks onto unsuspecting people by lying to them about the profit potential of their investments. You pull your money out, you have your rich friends pull out theirs, and you make sure to invest your IRA money elsewhere, probably in another scheme like this. Then you let the business crash, the little guys pay off the debts, and you have made your IRA grow massively by using your connections and millions of dollars of regular investment capital and converted your money into a tax free shelter.

that is just off the top of my head. Now do you have millions of dollars and some multimillion dollar companies, along with an investment capital company you run, and some really rich friends to do this? if not you can't do it, but don't wonder if this is something that allows the rich and privileged to scam the system to do things no one else can. Know it is.