Minimum wage increase would free people from work

[Mr. H.]

Yes, there are real costs associated in helping SOME.

The ACA comes to mind...

 

[NightFox]

notice how wingnuts only listen to statistics when it agrees with their own theories.

Hate to be the one to burst your bubble but severe confirmation bias afflicts ALL corners of the political spectrum......

"Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her" -- Jesus, New Testament, John 8:7

 

[DiamondDave]

The moral thing to do as a just society is if YOU work 8 hours a day = enough to feed your family, roof over your head and enough to buy a ice cream cone every once in awhile.

The republicans dream of enslaving large portions of our society like China does.

No.. the moral thing to do as an individual is do more.. whether than means learning and studying to obtain promotion and raise, or working 2 or 3 or 4 jobs to provide for the needs of your family... or don't start popping out kids until you are secure enough financially to provide

I grew up in a family with the bread winner working 3 jobs.. 3.. yes 3... 2 of which were full time... suck it up and drive on if it takes more than 8 hours of your day

 

[O.R.I.O.N]

Awww more snivelers negged me because their hatred of the poor runs so deep....poor suckers...

 

[FA_Q2]

notice how wingnuts only listen to statistics when it agrees with their own theories.

Is absolutely hilarious when you just stated this:

Jobs aren't going to be lost, businesses have already cut payroll to nothing in their greed to bring all the profits home to company leadership. There are ways of dealing with these greedy companies who remain unfair to their employees.

Tax breaks for instance can be used as incentive to those how believe in retaining good workers. Government jobs are only going to be offered to construction firms who pay their employees 10.10 an hour. Stuff like that.

Your theories that companies will be letting people go, is dumb. We have ways of dealing with cheapskates.

You basically saying that the CBO didn’t know what they were talking about.
IOW, you just outed yourself.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Blame the companies. They bitch when they are forced to make sure their employees have health insurance,they bitch when they are forced to give them livable wages,they will bitch and moan no matter what. Need to this shit Venezuela style and crack down on them...government needs to crack down on these companies that would rather line the pockets of their CEO's with million dollar bonsuses than give each worker a small raise to help their lives be better...man I fucking hate capitalism and its idiotic supporters.Obama and for that matter ANY president needs to crack down on this shit. If you can afford to pass out million dollar bonuses you damn sure can afford a few more dollars an hour...especially if its some shithole like walmart that has 6 members of that family worth more than 40% of society in this country.

It's too bad that you weren't able to feel the sting of tyranny under mao and stalin. I'm sure that you would have loved it as govt killed millions.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

The moral thing to do as a just society is if YOU work 8 hours a day = enough to feed your family, roof over your head and enough to buy a ice cream cone every once in awhile.

The republicans dream of enslaving large portions of our society like China does.

You're the same moron that says anyone making 100k or under should receive food stamps.

Opinion void

 

[O.R.I.O.N]

Blame the companies. They bitch when they are forced to make sure their employees have health insurance,they bitch when they are forced to give them livable wages,they will bitch and moan no matter what. Need to this shit Venezuela style and crack down on them...government needs to crack down on these companies that would rather line the pockets of their CEO's with million dollar bonsuses than give each worker a small raise to help their lives be better...man I fucking hate capitalism and its idiotic supporters.Obama and for that matter ANY president needs to crack down on this shit. If you can afford to pass out million dollar bonuses you damn sure can afford a few more dollars an hour...especially if its some shithole like walmart that has 6 members of that family worth more than 40% of society in this country.

It's too bad that you weren't able to feel the sting of tyranny under mao and stalin. I'm sure that you would have loved it as govt killed millions.

Instead me and MILLIONS of others like me get to live under the boot of capitalism and its crushing policies. While millionaires get more million dollar bonuses we barely scrape by on a meager wage and yet we get the blame for being poor...republican I hope will NEVER win another national election...I merely hope the democrats and republicans split the house and senate and therefore NOTHING gets done...the sooner this whole system destroys itself the better for us.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

Blame the companies. They bitch when they are forced to make sure their employees have health insurance,they bitch when they are forced to give them livable wages,they will bitch and moan no matter what. Need to this shit Venezuela style and crack down on them...government needs to crack down on these companies that would rather line the pockets of their CEO's with million dollar bonsuses than give each worker a small raise to help their lives be better...man I fucking hate capitalism and its idiotic supporters.Obama and for that matter ANY president needs to crack down on this shit. If you can afford to pass out million dollar bonuses you damn sure can afford a few more dollars an hour...especially if its some shithole like walmart that has 6 members of that family worth more than 40% of society in this country.

It's too bad that you weren't able to feel the sting of tyranny under mao and stalin. I'm sure that you would have loved it as govt killed millions.

Instead me and MILLIONS of others like me get to live under the boot of capitalism and its crushing policies. While millionaires get more million dollar bonuses we barely scrape by on a meager wage and yet we get the blame for being poor...republican I hope will NEVER win another national election...I merely hope the democrats and republicans split the house and senate and therefore NOTHING gets done...the sooner this whole system destroys itself the better for us.

Completely disagree on your disgruntled view of capitalism. No one is forcing you to buy or participate in giving to a company or business. However, we are forced, through taxation, to give to govt. How you reconcile giving to govt must be magical. I do agree with you on one point, republican and democrat stagnation. The two parties are destroying the country.

 

[O.R.I.O.N]

It's too bad that you weren't able to feel the sting of tyranny under mao and stalin. I'm sure that you would have loved it as govt killed millions.

Instead me and MILLIONS of others like me get to live under the boot of capitalism and its crushing policies. While millionaires get more million dollar bonuses we barely scrape by on a meager wage and yet we get the blame for being poor...republican I hope will NEVER win another national election...I merely hope the democrats and republicans split the house and senate and therefore NOTHING gets done...the sooner this whole system destroys itself the better for us.

Completely disagree on your disgruntled view of capitalism. No one is forcing you to buy or participate in giving to a company or business. However, we are forced, through taxation, to give to govt. How you reconcile giving to govt must be magical. I do agree with you on one point, republican and democrat stagnation. The two parties are destroying the country.

To make it in this country one must work within the capitalist system unfortunately. I try and get around it however I can. Side jobs etc. I don't mind paying taxes because we ALL use services that our taxes pay for.

 

[SwimExpert]

notice how wingnuts only listen to statistics when it agrees with their own theories.

Hate to be the one to burst your bubble but severe confirmation bias afflicts ALL corners of the political spectrum......

Is that not what she said?

 

[DigitalDrifter]

Yes, there are real costs associated in helping SOME.

The ACA comes to mind...

Obama knows best.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

 

[Sarah G]

Conservatives have a reading comprehension problem.

If it doesn't say something they want it to say, they twist things until it does.

 

[Sallow]

So now you guys believe the CBO?

This is so confusing.

 

[BillyZane]

They clearly are not your friend Barack !



Does Obama have a CBO problem?

A new report on the minimum wage is causing headaches for the White House

For the second time in as many weeks, the White House on Tuesday found itself racing to contain the political fallout from a potentially damaging report from the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

In the latest instance, the CBO ran the numbers on President Obama's proposal to raise the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour, from $7.25, by 2016. Doing so would boost the income for about 16.5 million workers, the agency says — but at a cost of around 500,000 jobs.

Naturally, Republicans seized on the report to bolster their opposition to hiking the minimum wage. "This report confirms what we've long known," said a spokesman for Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio). "While helping some, mandating higher wages has real costs, including fewer people working."

The White House swiftly pushed back against the report on a couple of fronts, both arguing that the broader economic benefits of increasing the minimum wage outweigh the potential job losses, and that the job losses probably won't happen anyway.

In a six-point response, Jason Furman and Betsey Stevenson of the Council of Economic Advisers argued that the report showed that raising the minimum wage would "help millions of hard-working families, reduce poverty, and increase the overall wages going to lower-income households." As for the employment picture, they wrote that CBO's estimates "do not reflect the overall consensus view of economists which is that raising the minimum wage has little or no negative effect on employment."

They may be right. There is much disagreement among economists about how raising the minimum wage would impact unemployment, with most finding little to no result. Indeed, the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute recently estimated that a $10.10 minimum wage could actually lead to 85,000 more jobs.

Still, there are some problems with the White House's response.

The administration is engaging in a bit of awkward cherry-picking, touting some numbers in the report while throwing cold water on others. Essentially, it's saying CBO analysts are spot on when they produce favorable results, but terrible at their jobs when they do the opposite. The selective embrace of data is a hallmark of deliberately self-serving arguments.

That gets at a bigger issue. Democrats have long relied on the CBO to bolster their arguments on issues ranging from health care to the economy. The CBO, as a group of nonpartisan number-crunchers, is usually part of the wonky apparatus that lends credence to the Democrats' claim that reality has a liberal bias. And now the White House is saying the CBO is unreliable. So which is it?

Then there are the politics of it. Arguing with the CBO never looks good.

It's the same problem the White House encountered earlier this month when the CBO determined that ObamaCare would shrink the labor supply by 2.5 million full-time workers by 2024. Republicans latched on to that finding as proof that ObamaCare is a job killer, and that narrative initially dominated even mainstream publications. The real story was more nuanced: The CBO found ObamaCare wouldn't reduce the supply of jobs, but rather, through new incentives, allow people to retire earlier and work less, thus reducing the supply of labor.

Still, as with the latest flap, the White House had the harder sell. And regardless of the veracity of its claims, the optics of the administration vociferously pushing back against the CBO doesn't do Democrats many favors. Obama is loath to come out and say, "Losing a small amount of jobs is worth it to help a lot of poor people" — but at least that would make more sense to voters.

Does Obama have a CBO problem? - The Week

Let's look at this logically.

If the government is hiring Company A to do a project and company A says that they are going to let people go if the min wage goes up, what that tells us is that Company A employs more people than they need to do the work they do.

And my moderate experiences in government bear this out. Some company will bid for a job, and use twice as many employees as they actually need, billing the government for every one of them. So, as unfortunate as this is for the people who will lose their jobs, the truth is no company is going to fire employees they need

 

[RandomVariable]

I am not sure I understand the OP, the CBO is non partisan, the text copied from the article states as much, and no more, the title of the thread is "CBO smacks down Obama.......AGAIN !". So what is DigitalDrifter saying, "All things being equal I am a partisan hack."

 

[Kimura]

I read the report. These types of reports are problematic for the CBO because most of the economic literature available on the minimum wage is the like the third rail of economics. Most economists are split on the overall effects.

For example, they looked at the effects of the minimum wage on incomes/poverty, and came to the conclusion that a minimum wage of $10.10 would decrease poverty by around 900,000. We have to look at some of the other empirical data which demonstrates on overall decrease in poverty.

Click Here

Either way, the CBO has some good outcomes. Incomes for the poor would increase by tens of billions of dollars and poverty levels fall. It would act as a quasi-stimulus if passed in our anemic economy.

The only negative is the same recycled arguments about the minimum wage and firms. The CBO report states an increase from $9.00 to $10.10 would decrease total employment by 100k and 500k respectively.

The CBO doesn’t seem too sure about the accuracy of these estimates. We’re looking at a small increase in the number of employed to a decrease of 1 mill people. They then say they’re only two-thirds certain that overall employment will even be that big. At the end of the day, more or less, the CBO has given us a large range of smoke and mirrors which is what we see in 99% of the minimum wage studies. This is literally a non-event.

 

[Rshermr]

Yup. You can look at min wage projections over time, and compare it to what actually happened, and you will always find that the net effect on employment was small at best. But over time, you will find that thei impact on wages is generally always to increase them at all levels, except at the very highest income levels.

Net is, those who support making the wealthy more so hate min wage increases. Those concerned about the middle class support min wage increases at least in moderation.

 

[Two Thumbs]

The CBO absolutely suqs at predictions, no imagination at all. The country needs DEMAND, some money in customers' hands, so feq em...

says the man that tooted the cbo horn when it supported obamas vasts spending bills.


but you're right, they were wrong then, the spending bills did fail

 

[LoneLaugher]

500,000 people might lose low wage jobs if the minimum wage is raised to $10.10 per hour.

900,000 people will be lifted out of poverty if the minimum wage is raised to $10.10 per hour.

Do our resident nutters understand that we will, as taxpayers, be subsidizing 400,000 fewer employees for cheapskate employers if these numbers were to pan out?

Hmmmm?