Matthew 12:40

[rstrats]

Since it has again been awhile, perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

 

[ding]

Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a discussion with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase x days and xnights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didnt include at least parts of the x days and at least parts of the x nights?

Three days signified a period long enough to confirm death.

 

[rstrats]

Three days signified a period long enough to confirm death.

Any particular reason for quoting the OP and then addressing a different issue?

 

[ding]

Any particular reason for quoting the OP and then addressing a different issue?

You mean besides the fact that it explains the significance of three days?

It was common to wait three days to make sure they were actually dead. They didn't have EKG's back then.

 

[Clyde 154]

If you want to know about something revealed in the Holy Scriptures.......allow the Holy Scriptures to interpret themselves.

Matthew 12:40 and His 3 days and 3 nights is being discussed. Why would Jesus inform a group of scribes and Pharisees that He would be in His tomb for 3 days and 3 nights, if He was actually buried on Friday afternoon and rose from the grave early on Sunday morning? That's not 72 hrs........ literally. And the text is not to be taken in a literal fashion as exampled in other parts of the Holy Scriptures.

Scriptural examples of 3 days and 3 nights not being a literal 72 hrs. In Bible times a part or portion of a day was spoken of as being a complete day i.e.., equal to a whole day.

During the United Kingdom period (a period of chronological time that covers a period up to the time when Jesus came, a time of KINGS) ....... Israel went to king Rehoboam and asked him to lighten their burdens....thus the king declared he needed time to think about their request, so he told the people to come back after 3 days (2 Chron. 10:5). In verse 12 of that same chapter says the Israelites came to Rehoboam on the 3rd day as ".....the king had directed." Clearly the king said AFTER 3 days which would mean on the 4th day....literally...no? Not according to the scriptures......a part of a day equals a whole day.......as the people of Israel understood this to mean come back on the 3rd day.......and they came back on the 3rd day, not on the 4th.

Years later we find another example of a partial day being equal to a whole day. When Queen Ester was about to risk her life going before king Ahasuerus without a formal invitation, she instructed the Jews to follow her example by not eating for 3 days and 3 nights (Ester 4:16), but the text goes on to tell us that Esther went unto the king "......on the third day". (5:1)

Thus the writers of the New Testament also used various phrases such as 3 days and 3 nights, the 3rd day, after 3 days.....to describe how long Jesus' body was in the grave and on what day He rose. The 3 phrases are different, but in the culture of the day, they all mean the same thing, Jesus was buried on Friday afternoon and rose on Sunday morning.

 

[hadit]

If you want to know about something revealed in the Holy Scriptures.......allow the Holy Scriptures to interpret themselves.

Matthew 12:40 and His 3 days and 3 nights is being discussed. Why would Jesus inform a group of scribes and Pharisees that He would be in His tomb for 3 days and 3 nights, if He was actually buried on Friday afternoon and rose from the grave early on Sunday morning? That's not 72 hrs........ literally. And the text is not to be taken in a literal fashion as exampled in other parts of the Holy Scriptures.

Scriptural examples of 3 days and 3 nights not being a literal 72 hrs. In Bible times a part or portion of a day was spoken of as being a complete day i.e.., equal to a whole day.

During the United Kingdom period (a period of chronological time that covers a period up to the time when Jesus came, a time of KINGS) ....... Israel went to king Rehoboam and asked him to lighten their burdens....thus the king declared he needed time to think about their request, so he told the people to come back after 3 days (2 Chron. 10:5). In verse 12 of that same chapter says the Israelites came to Rehoboam on the 3rd day as ".....the king had directed." Clearly the king said AFTER 3 days which would mean on the 4th day....literally...no? Not according to the scriptures......a part of a day equals a whole day.......as the people of Israel understood this to mean come back on the 3rd day.......and they came back on the 3rd day, not on the 4th.

Years later we find another example of a partial day being equal to a whole day. When Queen Ester was about to risk her life going before king Ahasuerus without a formal invitation, she instructed the Jews to follow her example by not eating for 3 days and 3 nights (Ester 4:16), but the text goes on to tell us that Esther went unto the king "......on the third day". (5:1)

Thus the writers of the New Testament also used various phrases such as 3 days and 3 nights, the 3rd day, after 3 days.....to describe how long Jesus' body was in the grave and on what day He rose. The 3 phrases are different, but in the culture of the day, they all mean the same thing, Jesus was buried on Friday afternoon and rose on Sunday morning.

There is no problem with this scripture when you realize that there was more than one Sabbath during Passover. There was the High Sabbath on Friday, so Jesus was buried on Thursday and rose on Sunday. Three days and three nights in the ground.

 

[rstrats]

You mean besides the fact that it explains the significance of three days?

Yes.

It was common to wait three days to make sure they were actually dead. They didn't have EKG's back then.

That's an issue for a different topic.

 

[ding]

Yes.


That's an issue for a different topic.

If you don't understand the reason for the idiom, you won't be able to understand why the idiom was used.

 

[rstrats]

During the United Kingdom period (a period of chronological time that covers a period up to the time when Jesus came, a time of KINGS) ....... Israel went to king Rehoboam and asked him to lighten their burdens....thus the king declared he needed time to think about their request, so he told the people to come back after 3 days (2 Chron. 10:5). In verse 12 of that same chapter says the Israelites came to Rehoboam on the 3rd day as ".....the king had directed." Clearly the king said AFTER 3 days which would mean on the 4th day....literally...no? Not according to the scriptures......a part of a day equals a whole day.......as the people of Israel understood this to mean come back on the 3rd day.......and they came back on the 3rd day, not on the 4th.

Years later we find another example of a partial day being equal to a whole day. When Queen Ester was about to risk her life going before king Ahasuerus without a formal invitation, she instructed the Jews to follow her example by not eating for 3 days and 3 nights (Ester 4:16), but the text goes on to tell us that Esther went unto the king "......on the third day". (5:1)

Clyde 154,

Your 2 Chronicles account is not an applicable example since a number of daytimes and a number of night times are not specified.


re: "When Queen Ester was about to risk her life going before king Ahasuerus without a formal invitation, she instructed the Jews to follow her example by not eating for 3 days and 3 nights (Ester 4:16)..."

Actually, the verse reads - "...for three days, night or day" which is not necessarily the same thing as "three days and three nights". But even if it does, that would only be one example. This topic is directed to anyone who thinks that it was common to say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. It's simply asking them to provide examples to support their idea of commonality.

 

[rstrats]

If you don't understand the reason for the idiom, you won't be able to understand why the idiom was used.

And that would be an issue for a different topic.

 

[rstrats]

ding,
re: "Disagree"

You can disagree all you want but this topic is concerned with one issue and only one issue - i.e., examples which show the commonality of forecasting or saying that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur. Any issues other than that should be addressed in a new topic.
Perhaps you could start one.

 

[rstrats]

Well into the new year, maybe someone new looking in may know of examples.

 

[rstrats]

There was the High Sabbath on Friday, so Jesus was buried on Thursday...

But this topic is directed to those who think the burial was on the 6th day of the week.

 

[rstrats]

Someone new looking in may know of examples.

 

[rstrats]

And again, that someone is to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who thinks the "heart of earth" refers to the tomb, and who tries to explain the missing third night by saying that the Messiah was using common figure of speech or colloquial language of the period. I'm simply asking if they might provide examples which show that it was common to forecast or say that a daytime or a night time would be involved with an event when no part of a daytime or no part of a night time could occur.

 

[rstrats]

Since it's been awhile, perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.

 

[rstrats]

Point 3. in post #183 should be changed to read: Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the Messiah's time in the tomb, or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body.

 

[rstrats]

Someone new looking in may know of examples.

 

[hobelim]

Of those, there are some who believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the Messiah's time in the tomb, or at the earliest to the moment when His spirit left His body.

In the "heart of the earth" is only a metaphor just like "the belly of the beast". The three days corresponds to the three decades before Jesus left the tomb of pharisaic beliefs and practices, was baptized as a token of repentance for the forgiveness of sins and "heaven opened up to him" and then he ascended in full view of believers and unbelievers day by day until he was 'taken up" a euphemism for his death. Then he appeared to his disciples in dreams. Dreams and visions are the medium through which God communicates to human beings which convinced them that Jesus survived death and was alive and living in the realm of God, the reward of the righteous.

 

[rstrats]

In the "heart of the earth" is only a metaphor just like "the belly of the beast". The three days corresponds to the three decades before Jesus left the tomb of pharisaic beliefs and practices, was baptized as a token of repentance for the forgiveness of sins and "heaven opened up to him" and then he ascended in full view of believers and unbelievers day by day until he was 'taken up" a euphemism for his death. Then he appeared to his disciples in dreams. Dreams and visions are the medium through which God communicates to human beings which convinced them that Jesus survived death and was alive and living in the realm of God, the reward of the righteous.

That would be an issue for a different topic. Perhaps you might start one.