Matthew 12:40

rstrats

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Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase “x” days and “x”nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the “x” days and at least parts of the “x” nights?
 

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Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that the phrase “x” days and “x”nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of the “x” days and at least parts of the “x” nights?
the idea in Judaism is called "miktzat hayom kekulo" part of a day is [as] the entire. It is an idea invoked in the talmud to explain particular rabbinic opinions about understanding certain timing issues (like a case where a rabbi allowed clothing to be cleaned during his mourning period, or the biblical details of the priestly immersion and purification ritual). It is never openly apparent in the text so anyone using it to explain an issue in the gospels would be, it seems, lending credence to the rabbinic/talmudic exegetical and theological framework.
 

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I would think that Christianity has no choice but to lend credence to--what you just said!:tongue:
 
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rstrats

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I would think that Christianity has no choice but to lend credence to--what you just said!:tongue:

I know; that is why I started this topic - to see if there is any documentation to back up the idea. Do you know of any?
 
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rstrats

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rosends,

re: "the idea in Judaism is called 'miktzat hayom kekulo' part of a day is [as] the entire.

As regards the Jewish practice of counting any part of a day as a whole day I would agree, but when “nights” is added to “days” to yield the phrase “x" days AND "x" nights it normally refers to a measurement of a consecutive time period where “day” refers to the light portion of a 24 hour period and “night” refers to the dark portion of a 24 hour period. No one In the history of apologetics as far as I know has ever presented any historical documentation that the phrase “ x" days AND "x" nights” was a unique first century idiom of Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek which could mean something different than what the phrase means in English. Again, if you have such documentation, I would very much like to see it.
 
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rstrats

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Perhaps someone new looking in will know of some documentation.
 
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rstrats

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Maybe rewriting the OP will make it a bit more clear: Whenever the three days and three nights of Matthew 12:40 is brought up in a “discussion” with 6th day crucifixion folks, they frequently argue that it is a Jewish idiom for counting any part of a day as a whole day. I wonder if anyone has documentation that shows that a phrase stating a specific number of days as well as a specific number of nights was ever used in the first century or before when it absolutely didn’t include at least parts of each one of the specific number of days and at least parts of each one of the specific number of nights?
 
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rstrats

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I probably should have addressed the OP to those who think that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week.
 

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Matthew 12:40) For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.


May I ask why it matters? Don't know about "6th day" folks.......seems to me we have Jesus crucified on Friday (daylight - before the beginning of Passover), then Saturday, then Sunday........known in Christianity as Resurrection Sunday generally...........I don't see what it matters though.......
 
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rstrats

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tipofthespear,

re: "May I ask why it matters?"

When asked by the scribes and Pharisees for a sign of his authority, the Messiah said that the only sign would be His entombment for three days AND three nights. If He didn't spend that time in the tomb, then He would not qualify as the Messiah. So why do you think that it is not important as to the length of time?

Do you know of any writing that was asked for in the OP?
 

tipofthespear

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tipofthespear,

re: "May I ask why it matters?"

When asked by the scribes and Pharisees for a sign of his authority, the Messiah said that the only sign would be His entombment for three days AND three nights. If He didn't spend that time in the tomb, then He would not qualify as the Messiah. So why do you think that it is not important as to the length of time?

Do you know of any writing that was asked for in the OP?

Ok, so you are trying to "discredit" Jesus based on the "particular reading" of a specific Scripture...........I read it as it is written.....both in the KJV and the CJB, and I have no problem understanding that Jesus was in the tomb for three days and nights......it may not have been a complete 72 hour time, but do not care, nor believe anyone would try to count it down to the very second, and if Jesus was resurrected ONE OR TWO seconds early, they would then PROCLAIM: AHA! SEE! HE IS NOT THE MESSIAH!

Don't forget when Jesus spoke of destroying the Temple, and He said He would raise it in three days..........and there are other references as well. Buy yourself a KJV, or other translation, and spend some time studying...........there is much to learn...
 
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rstrats

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tipofthespear,

re: "Ok, so you are trying to 'discredit' Jesus..."

What??? Absolutely not! How on earth did you come up with that idea?



re: "... ...........I read it as it is written.....both in the KJV and the CJB, and I have no problem understanding that Jesus was in the tomb for three days and [three] nights...."

And neither do I. However, the 6th day crucifixion proponents say that it was only 2 nights.



re: "Don't forget when Jesus spoke of destroying the Temple, and He said He would raise it in three days.........."

And He said that those three calendar days would consist of three day times as well as three night times. However, the 6th day crucifixion proponents say that it was only 2 nights and so far none of them has provided any writing that specifies a certain number of day times as well as a certain number of night times for a period of time where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specified number of day times and at least a part of each one of the specified number of night times.
 

tipofthespear

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tipofthespear,

re: "Ok, so you are trying to 'discredit' Jesus..."

What??? Absolutely not! How on earth did you come up with that idea?



re: "... ...........I read it as it is written.....both in the KJV and the CJB, and I have no problem understanding that Jesus was in the tomb for three days and [three] nights...."

And neither do I. However, the 6th day crucifixion proponents say that it was only 2 nights.



re: "Don't forget when Jesus spoke of destroying the Temple, and He said He would raise it in three days.........."

And He said that those three calendar days would consist of three day times as well as three night times. However, the 6th day crucifixion proponents say that it was only 2 nights and so far none of them has provided any writing that specifies a certain number of day times as well as a certain number of night times for a period of time where the period of time absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specified number of day times and at least a part of each one of the specified number of night times.

Ok, since I'm not one of them you are referring to, I'll 'butt out" of this discussion.......however, in parting, when trying to discredit Jesus as the Son of God, the Promised One.............let me add this one thought:

If I am right, in that I believe in Jesus Christ, and accept Him as my Saviour and Lord, AND end up being wrong.........Hey, NO HARM, NO FOUL, for the teachings of Jesus on how we are to live our lives and treat our fellow men is an excellent way to do so is it not?

So, let's consider the idea that those who believe Jesus IS NOT the Promised One, and it's all a bunch of "fooey........." What if THEY ARE WRONG?

If I'm wrong and they are right, well, as I said.........no harm, no foul.......

BUT

If I am right and they are wrong............that's gonna be a HELL of a mistake on their part.
 
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rstrats

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Someone new looking in may know of some writing.
 
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rstrats

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daws101,

re: "this may help"

I'm afraid I don't see where the clip shows any writing that specifies a certain number of day times and/or a certain number of night times for a period of time where the period absolutely couldn't have included at least a part of each one of the specified number of day times and/or at least a part of each one of the specified number of night times.
 
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rstrats

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Someone new looking in who thinks that the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week, and who tries to get around Matthew 12:40 by saying that it is using common Jewish idiomatic language, may know of some writing.
 
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rstrats

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delete message.
 
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rstrats

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pacer,

Thanks for the link, but I'm afraid I don't see what is has to do with my question in the OP. I wonder if you might explain why you think that it does?
 

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