Mathematical Challenges to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution

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The theorists of intelligent design , raving about a god within the gaps of evolution , beg a question of whether those same intelligent design theists are willing to worship extraterrestrial beings as gawd should it be established that they setup this terrarium garden .

Abiogenesis is impossible, your atheist-of-the-gaps fallacy notwithstanding.
 

Hollie

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The theorists of intelligent design , raving about a god within the gaps of evolution , beg a question of whether those same intelligent design theists are willing to worship extraterrestrial beings as gawd should it be established that they setup this terrarium garden .

Abiogenesis is impossible, your atheist-of-the-gaps fallacy notwithstanding.
It’s not impossible when we know with certainty it happened, notwithstanding your hurt feelings.
 
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It's not just GMO foods. Many people try to just eat non-GMO foods for their nutrition.

C'mon, you're avoiding what GMO foods you like to eat. Thus, it appears you are running away from GMO foods because they're scary and can kill you earlier than your 70s and 80s.

It's not stupid if the foods you eat can kill you and give you tumors.

We just had a report today on the non-GMO foods market -- Worldwide Non-GMO Foods Industry to 2025 - Key Drivers, Challenges and Trends.

I know what you'd like to eat. Chicken butts. 5 cents a cut. Or pork butts. Any kind of butts haha.

For those who do not care to indulge in GMO and deadly foods, you can look here -- Verified Products – The Non-GMO Project.
Hey, James, still looking for that yes/no answer. See post #436. Thanks.
 
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It’s not impossible when we know with certainty it happened, notwithstanding your hurt feelings.
How do you know abiogenesis happened? Tell me more about this atheist-of-the-gaps fantasy. :popcorn:
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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How do you know abiogenesis happened?
Once there was no life, then there was life. Abiogenesis is just the word for life arising from non-life.

Where once there was no star, now there is a star. "Star formation" connects these two states. We don't have to know all the details of HOW stars form to know that they do. To know that star formation is a fact. Similarly, we don't have to know the details of abiogenesis to know it happened.
 

Hollie

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It's not just GMO foods. Many people try to just eat non-GMO foods for their nutrition.

C'mon, you're avoiding what GMO foods you like to eat. Thus, it appears you are running away from GMO foods because they're scary and can kill you earlier than your 70s and 80s.

It's not stupid if the foods you eat can kill you and give you tumors.

We just had a report today on the non-GMO foods market -- Worldwide Non-GMO Foods Industry to 2025 - Key Drivers, Challenges and Trends.

I know what you'd like to eat. Chicken butts. 5 cents a cut. Or pork butts. Any kind of butts haha.

For those who do not care to indulge in GMO and deadly foods, you can look here -- Verified Products – The Non-GMO Project.
Hey, James, still looking for that yes/no answer. See post #436. Thanks.
“The atheist-of-the-gaps fallacy is the metaphysical apriority of naturalism, i.e., the puerile belief that nature did it! —Michael Rawlings (a.k.a., Ringtone)”

If you could post your “General Theory of Supernaturalism™” we could examine your data for the supernatural. If the natural world is somehow subservient to your supernatural world and supernatural realms, show us the magic. If there are supernatural forces that you claim to exist but refuse to demonstrate and you choose to keep those to yourself, how does anyone come to a conclusion about your supernatural realms?
 

Toddsterpatriot

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I have no idea, because i don't pay any attention to that. I don't have an irrational fear of GMO foods that was created by lying bloggers. That's your department.
It's the nutritional science department. Slowly, we are learning that GMO foods are bad and likely causes early death and tumors.

In the Bible, God told Adam and Eve (and us) that every plant and tree yielding seed was to be their and our food. GMO foods are not that.

We also know from the Bible that Jesus ate meat. Thus, I had a nice lunch today and am greatly satisfied.
Slowly, we are learning that GMO foods are bad and likely causes early death and tumors.

Where did you learn that? Was it the voices in your head telling you that? LOL!
Between you who never evolves in this forum and remains at status quo (do not pass go, do not collect $200), I rather trust the intuition or the Holy Spirit. GMO foods are bad and I provided a couple of links to it. I've heard it causes tumors, but others call it cancer. Both are bad.

I have to thank Sunsettommy for admitting evolution is artificial selection and leading to this discussion. God created natural selection. It's not a slam dunk argument like being against abiogenesis or singularity (claim of actual infinity by the atheist scientists (!)).

Anyway, it is what it is and you atheists can eat all the GMO foods that you want. I think one day, GMO foods makers will be forced to label their products as containing GMO. It gives you a strange idea of what the Kentucky Derby is like. I like horse racing a lot, but it's eerie that we are watching some type of awkward genetic relationship between the horses. I can accept a brother, sister, and distant cousin, but a stranger who is genetic mutation is a bit much.
GMO foods are bad and I provided a couple of links to it.

Which ones? The fake one about the killer tomato?

I've heard it causes tumors

LOL!
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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I have no idea, because i don't pay any attention to that. I don't have an irrational fear of GMO foods that was created by lying bloggers. That's your department.
It's the nutritional science department. Slowly, we are learning that GMO foods are bad and likely causes early death and tumors.

In the Bible, God told Adam and Eve (and us) that every plant and tree yielding seed was to be their and our food. GMO foods are not that.

We also know from the Bible that Jesus ate meat. Thus, I had a nice lunch today and am greatly satisfied.
Slowly, we are learning that GMO foods are bad and likely causes early death and tumors.

Where did you learn that? Was it the voices in your head telling you that? LOL!
Between you who never evolves in this forum and remains at status quo (do not pass go, do not collect $200), I rather trust the intuition or the Holy Spirit. GMO foods are bad and I provided a couple of links to it. I've heard it causes tumors, but others call it cancer. Both are bad.

I have to thank Sunsettommy for admitting evolution is artificial selection and leading to this discussion. God created natural selection. It's not a slam dunk argument like being against abiogenesis or singularity (claim of actual infinity by the atheist scientists (!)).

Anyway, it is what it is and you atheists can eat all the GMO foods that you want. I think one day, GMO foods makers will be forced to label their products as containing GMO. It gives you a strange idea of what the Kentucky Derby is like. I like horse racing a lot, but it's eerie that we are watching some type of awkward genetic relationship between the horses. I can accept a brother, sister, and distant cousin, but a stranger who is genetic mutation is a bit much.
GMO foods are bad and I provided a couple of links to it.

Which ones? The fake one about the killer tomato?

I've heard it causes tumors

LOL!
This is the retracted study that still gets tossed about in the anti-GMO circles. You can draw a straight line from this, through bloggers and liars, to Bond's mouth :

 

Hollie

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It’s not impossible when we know with certainty it happened, notwithstanding your hurt feelings.
How do you know abiogenesis happened? Tell me more about this atheist-of-the-gaps fantasy. :popcorn:
Life exists on the planet. Either life erupted from biological processes or, by your beliefs, one or more gods snapped their eternal digits and magically created existence 6,000 years ago. I’m discounting the alien seeding thing. I’m also discounting your ability to demonstrate any understanding of biology and I’m further discounting your ability to make any rational case for your beliefs in a 6,000 year old planet whipped up by your gods.

Have you ever considered that light reaching this planet from anywhere further than 6,000 light years distant is an unresolvable dilemma for you Flat Earth types?

We know with certainty, you don’t, but thinking humans know with certainty that organisms evolve. We know with certainty, you don’t, but thinking humans know the planet is billions of years old and the processes of chemistry and biology have had almost as long to interact.

So, tell us about that Ark cruise.
 

james bond

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I've heard it causes tumors

LOL!
Tumors may not be cancerous, but still an unsightly mess -- Is a Tumor Cancer? | Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.

More recently, the worry is getting cancer, but not enough evidence -- Is There Evidence That GMOs Can Cause Cancer? | Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.

It's up to you. I'm more careful with trying to eat non-GMO foods and opt for grass fed and grain fed beef.

Atheists and their atheist scientists should follow evolution and eat GMO foods. Practice what you preach.
 

ding

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In the context of speciation, my point is that it's not natural selection. It's always been genetic mutations. So I don't think any selections are responsible for speciation.

The examples are stasis when no mutations occur or are unsuccessful in creating a new species and all of the speciations which have no transitional fossils. The same "examples" that led to the theories of punctuated equilibrium and saltation.
A genetic mutation is the cause, natural selection is the effect ... this is easy to demonstrate in the lab with fruit flies ... sounds like you're pointing out a few cases where this doesn't happen, like in the shark family ... they've changed very little over the past 200 millions year, but it's a good design, maybe improvements aren't needed ... and there's absolutely noting in the math that says species must change over time ... our k value being very close to zero ...

Natural selection allows for both punctuated equilibrium and saltation ... just change your k value up and down ...

ETA: What is there about punctuated equilibrium and saltation that doesn't allow "in between" pathways? ...
Nothing. It's just that gradual changes are seldom seen in the fossil record.

I don't believe I am pointing out the cases where this doesn't happen. I believe I am questioning natural selection as the driver for speciation based upon stasis (i.e. no gradual changes) and lack of transitional fossils (i.e. fast changes in speciation).
You should be looking at what happens with isolated populations. Evolutionary change occurs more rapidly in smaller populations (mathematics). So, when a population becomes isolated from a large, centralized population, speciation can occur via a still relatively gradual process (not one generation, still may be a million years). If this new species then thrives, we are more likely to find its fossils. Just as we are more likely to find the fossils of the species of the larger, parent population. What we are less likely to find are the fossils of the isolated population while it was small and changing relatively quickly, compared to the larger, centralized population from which it was separated.

This is Gould's model for punctuated equilibrium. It still relies on natural selection, and on all the other known drivers of evolution.
I understand the theory on large and small populations. That MAY address stasis but I don't believe that addresses the lack of transitional fossils.
 

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" Comparing Modern Stochastic Conditions With Dynamic Transformation Opportunities From Antiquity "

* Deep Sleep Rapid Eye Dreams Reverse Learning Accelerated Growth Assimilation *


Abiogenesis is impossible, your atheist-of-the-gaps fallacy notwithstanding.
To presume that nature itself is not infinite , while extolling that gawd is infinite , is a facetious assertion .

An intelligent design creation in full form theory ascribes that an omniscient , omnipotent , omnipresent being created a garden east of eden .

An intelligent design creation in full form theory could not exclude that extraterrestrials created a garden east of some region in space known as eden .

A theist for intelligent design would not concede to extraterrestrials as gawd if they had created the garden of earth .

To presume that nature itself is not infinite , while extolling that gawd is infinite , is a facetious assertion .


A time could have arisen eons before modern stasis which is more dynamic and less stochastic , whereby rapid transformations of biological adaptation were possible ; perhaps some opportunity for conception begin a processes which have analogous parallels in developmental stages such as neonatal , or adolescence , or puberty , or senescence , or metamorphosis .
 
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Fort Fun Indiana

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I've heard it causes tumors

LOL!
Tumors may not be cancerous, but still an unsightly mess -- Is a Tumor Cancer? | Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.

More recently, the worry is getting cancer, but not enough evidence -- Is There Evidence That GMOs Can Cause Cancer? | Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.

It's up to you. I'm more careful with trying to eat non-GMO foods and opt for grass fed and grain fed beef.

Atheists and their atheist scientists should follow evolution and eat GMO foods. Practice what you preach.
By what mechanism would a GMO cause a tumor? A GMO basically adds information to code for a protein. They arent mysterious proteins. We know them and can easily test them. So what is the magical mechanism for creating tumors that worries you, yet eludes the scientific community that creates amd tests GMOs?
 

Fort Fun Indiana

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That MAY address stasis
It absolutely does. And remember: we are explaining APPARENT stasis. I.E., there are still large time gaps in our very incomplete fossil record.

It also does completely explain the absence of a transitional fossil between two species. It is literally the reason Gould et. al. formed the idea in the first place. I addressed that directly: the population changing more rapidly is much, much smaller, thus making it much less likely to find fossils. The reason we DO find fossils of the new species is that it found a well suited form that then thrived and led to bigger populations. Bigger populations = more likely for us to find a fossil. Did you miss that?
 
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Toddsterpatriot

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I've heard it causes tumors

LOL!
Tumors may not be cancerous, but still an unsightly mess -- Is a Tumor Cancer? | Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.

More recently, the worry is getting cancer, but not enough evidence -- Is There Evidence That GMOs Can Cause Cancer? | Dana-Farber Cancer Institute.

It's up to you. I'm more careful with trying to eat non-GMO foods and opt for grass fed and grain fed beef.

Atheists and their atheist scientists should follow evolution and eat GMO foods. Practice what you preach.
One person who may have had an allergic reaction.
Where is all the cancer evidence?
 
OP
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To presume that nature itself is not infinite , while extolling that gawd is infinite , is a facetious assertion.
Correct! Insofar as you're talking about an actual infinite. God is not an actual infinite. You want to take that issue up with James Bond. He insists that God is an actual infinite, not I.

An intelligent design creation in full form theory could not exclude that extraterrestrials created a garden east of some region in space known as eden.
Objectively speaking, I Agree.

A theist for intelligent design would not concede to extraterrestrials as gawd if they had created the garden of earth .
Insofar as you're talking about a classical theist, that's correct.

A time could have arisen eons before modern stasis which is more dynamic and less stochastic , whereby rapid transformations of biological adaptation were possible ; perhaps some opportunity for conception begin a processes which have analogous parallels in developmental stages such as neonatal , or adolescence , or puberty , or senescence , or metamorphosis .
Objectively speaking, perhaps.
 
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OP
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Life exists on the planet. Either life erupted from biological processes or, by your beliefs, one or more gods snapped their eternal digits and magically created existence 6,000 years ago. I’m discounting the alien seeding thing. I’m also discounting your ability to demonstrate any understanding of biology and I’m further discounting your ability to make any rational case for your beliefs in a 6,000 year old planet whipped up by your gods.

Have you ever considered that light reaching this planet from anywhere further than 6,000 light years distant is an unresolvable dilemma for you Flat Earth types?

We know with certainty, you don’t, but thinking humans know with certainty that organisms evolve. We know with certainty, you don’t, but thinking humans know the planet is billions of years old and the processes of chemistry and biology have had almost as long to interact.

So, tell us about that Ark cruise.
Just how stupid are you? I have told you at least three times now that I'm not a YEC.

Take your YEC thingies up with James Bond.

Moreover, the Bible does not put an age on the Earth, let alone on the Universe. Ushrian hermeneutics and the biblical text are not the same thing. I already know you believe in the fantasy of abiogenesis. You're repeating yourself. Now explain the processes of chemical evolution up from prebiotic precursors to life. I'm all :popcorn:.

Thanks.
 

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