"Market economy is for robots, socialism is for people"

[Concerned American]

What should the creation of AI lead to and how it will affect human society. I grew up in the USSR under socialism, when there was free medicine, secondary education and higher education - those who passed the competition for admission to the university.
Also, under socialism, everyone was guaranteed a job, but at the same time unwillingness to work was legally punished - "the law on parasitism."
At the same time, there was a shortage of goods in stores, complex equipment like televisions or cars was expensive, difficult to buy and of poor quality.
Now almost the entire planet operates in a market economy, when it is easy to buy various goods, but you need to work hard and with high quality to ensure a decent standard of living, there is a strong stratification of society in terms of income and material status, and there is unemployment and unemployed.
Thus, socialism and capitalism have their disadvantages and advantages.
The question: how to combine the advantages of capitalism and socialism and get rid of their disadvantages - IMHO, can be solved by creating a "strong AI". Indeed, it is possible to build an economy where all goods will be produced by robots and robots will compete with each other to produce the best quality and cheapest goods for humans. People will receive Basic Income, which allows them to buy goods made by robots. Most likely, stratification in human society will take place, but even the poorest will receive Basic Income in order to maintain a minimum consumer level. Hunger, disease, poverty will become a thing of the past. People will be freed from the need to look for work and work to feed themselves.

Who will pay for the robots and where is the incentive for improvement? The US currently has those incentives in place AND a safety net in the form of federal and state social programs at this time. I prefer a free market economy.

The robots are cost effective replacements for human workers. No need for HR when your workforce is mechanical.

Also, a properly programed robot is far better at creating a product to tighter specs than a human worker is. And can do it 24/7, without breaks, vacations or overtime.

Agreed, I spent 33 years working in a factory and repairing the machinery. I have seen the introduction of AI from the 80's forward. AI is not free. There are R&D costs, programming costs, hardware costs etc. Companies are not going to produce these without an incentive. If the government removes the incentive by removing the free market value, companies will no longer produce the product. Also, AI, is only as good as the electricians and mechanics that keep it running. That too comes at a cost. The OP hit the nail on the head when he explained socialism in Russia--products were hard to come by and the quality suffered in spite of high costs. He also referenced punitive measures for those who won't work. Are we going to have gulags--Do the words Arbeit Macht Frei mean anything to you. They were on the gates of every nazi concentration camp and translate to "work sets you free." I prefer the free market.

 

[Crepitus]

People who do nothing are worthless to society,

You mean like stock traders and insurance adjusters?

 

[theHawk]

People who do nothing are worthless to society,

You mean like stock traders and insurance adjusters?

Yes, people like Toro

 

[22lcidw]

I have long predicted a point in which a Basic Income will be provided for the population. There will simply not be enough work for everyone to be employed.

And technology has already been the single biggest cause of unemployment. The number of people who lost work due to automation is greater than the number of jobs lost to outsourcing.

Agreed

You should have been around to purchase those American designed and American made vehicles that would lose their quality pretty fast after the one year warranty some decades ago. And the dealers forgot you to. Being a patriot for many Americans they still purchased American vehicles. Ironically many then Progs who speak a good game went with the growing Imports much more then those no good Deplorables. The truth is, we only need one American car company and that is to have a changeover to build different types of military vehicles if we ever have a prolonged war. I can only imagine if China gets into the automobile/truck game what will happen. The Asians also have been slow in producing passenger jets. They certainly could develop and sell them if they so desired.

 

[Quentin111]

Good luck with that. People who do nothing are worthless to society, so why would we pay people to do nothing? In the world you just described the people that own the machines would have every reason to destroy the freeloaders that produce nothing.

When the capabilities of AI exceed the capabilities of humans, then people can disappear from the Earth altogether, losing in the competition with machines in a pure market economy. Thus, it will be necessary to provide for the possibility of subordinating robots to such laws, according to which robots will be obliged to maintain people, supply them with food, goods, etc. For example, this can be done by paying people basic income. Now, in the capitalist world, unemployment benefits are provided for people who cannot find work and are therefore useless for society?

 

[Quentin111]

What should the creation of AI lead to and how it will affect human society. I grew up in the USSR under socialism, when there was free medicine, secondary education and higher education - those who passed the competition for admission to the university.

Socialism is slavery. People are resources, owned by the state.

Also, under socialism, everyone was guaranteed a job, but at the same time unwillingness to work was legally punished - "the law on parasitism."

Yep. That's pretty much the definition of slavery.

Socialism is not really "slavery". Under socialism, there was no free competition and there were rather soft requirements for workers. Therefore, the quality (and quantity) of Soviet products was often low. Under capitalism in a free market, if an employee does not work well, his employer will lower his wages or fire him altogether. Under socialism, the employee did not have a strong incentive to work well.

 

[Quentin111]

Well, we keep animals in zoos, feed them, provide care for them. So machines, when they become smarter than people, can do work instead of people and support people. You just need to make AI work for the benefit of people, something like Isaac Asimov's three laws of robotics.

 

[ding]

Free markets only work when they are free.

There is no such thing as chiliastic socialism.

It is not possible for a central government to provide for the needs of a society. It's been tried before.

Individual rights, ownership of property and virtue are cornerstones of freedom and liberty. Remove one and freedom crumbles.

Everyone loves darwinism until it applies to them.

Equality through uniformity is not equality and it certainly isn't freedom.

Diversity of thought is good and is a requirement of progress. Replace diversity with uniformity and watch how fast things fail.

FDR said it best... A large proportion of these unemployed and their dependents have been forced on the relief rolls. The burden on the Federal Government has grown with great rapidity. We have here a human as well as an economic problem. When humane considerations are concerned, Americans give them precedence. The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fibre. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit.

Annual Message to Congress | The American Presidency Project

www.presidency.ucsb.edu

 

[ding]

Well, we keep animals in zoos, feed them, provide care for them. So machines, when they become smarter than people, can do work instead of people and support people. You just need to make AI work for the benefit of people, something like Isaac Asimov's three laws of robotics.

I think you just proved my points. Your vision for the future is for all humans to become caged animals so to speak.

 

[ding]

We are all born with talents. We are happiest when we use our talents.

 

[miketx]

What should the creation of AI lead to and how it will affect human society. I grew up in the USSR under socialism, when there was free medicine, secondary education and higher education - those who passed the competition for admission to the university.
Also, under socialism, everyone was guaranteed a job, but at the same time unwillingness to work was legally punished - "the law on parasitism."
At the same time, there was a shortage of goods in stores, complex equipment like televisions or cars was expensive, difficult to buy and of poor quality.
Now almost the entire planet operates in a market economy, when it is easy to buy various goods, but you need to work hard and with high quality to ensure a decent standard of living, there is a strong stratification of society in terms of income and material status, and there is unemployment and unemployed.
Thus, socialism and capitalism have their disadvantages and advantages.
The question: how to combine the advantages of capitalism and socialism and get rid of their disadvantages - IMHO, can be solved by creating a "strong AI". Indeed, it is possible to build an economy where all goods will be produced by robots and robots will compete with each other to produce the best quality and cheapest goods for humans. People will receive Basic Income, which allows them to buy goods made by robots. Most likely, stratification in human society will take place, but even the poorest will receive Basic Income in order to maintain a minimum consumer level. Hunger, disease, poverty will become a thing of the past. People will be freed from the need to look for work and work to feed themselves.

Who will pay for the robots and where is the incentive for improvement? The US currently has those incentives in place AND a safety net in the form of federal and state social programs at this time. I prefer a free market economy.

They never think of that, do they?

 

[ding]

Good luck with that. People who do nothing are worthless to society, so why would we pay people to do nothing? In the world you just described the people that own the machines would have every reason to destroy the freeloaders that produce nothing.

All the people who once worked assembly lines and worked in industrial plants would now fall into the category of "freeloaders"?

How so?

 

[ding]

What should the creation of AI lead to and how it will affect human society. I grew up in the USSR under socialism, when there was free medicine, secondary education and higher education - those who passed the competition for admission to the university.
Also, under socialism, everyone was guaranteed a job, but at the same time unwillingness to work was legally punished - "the law on parasitism."
At the same time, there was a shortage of goods in stores, complex equipment like televisions or cars was expensive, difficult to buy and of poor quality.
Now almost the entire planet operates in a market economy, when it is easy to buy various goods, but you need to work hard and with high quality to ensure a decent standard of living, there is a strong stratification of society in terms of income and material status, and there is unemployment and unemployed.
Thus, socialism and capitalism have their disadvantages and advantages.
The question: how to combine the advantages of capitalism and socialism and get rid of their disadvantages - IMHO, can be solved by creating a "strong AI". Indeed, it is possible to build an economy where all goods will be produced by robots and robots will compete with each other to produce the best quality and cheapest goods for humans. People will receive Basic Income, which allows them to buy goods made by robots. Most likely, stratification in human society will take place, but even the poorest will receive Basic Income in order to maintain a minimum consumer level. Hunger, disease, poverty will become a thing of the past. People will be freed from the need to look for work and work to feed themselves.

Who will pay for the robots and where is the incentive for improvement? The US currently has those incentives in place AND a safety net in the form of federal and state social programs at this time. I prefer a free market economy.

They never think of that, do they?

That's because they react emotionally.

 

[Quentin111]

We are all born with talents. We are happiest when we use our talents.

What is the problem? In an ideal society with AI, humans would not need to work to feed themselves; instead, smart machines would satisfy all human needs. Moreover, humans will not be able to compete with machines in the manufacture of goods for the general market. But on the other hand, each person will have enough time to develop their talents and use these talents in their hobbies. I think that human art and sports will also be popular among in human society.

 

[miketx]

We are all born with talents. We are happiest when we use our talents.

What is the problem? In an ideal society with AI, humans would not need to work to feed themselves; instead, smart machines would satisfy all human needs. Moreover, humans will not be able to compete with machines in the manufacture of goods for the general market. But on the other hand, each person will have enough time to develop their talents and use these talents in their hobbies. I think that human art and sports will also be popular among in human society.

No one works, who builds the machines? Lol. You are the most myopic person here.

 

[ding]

We are all born with talents. We are happiest when we use our talents.

What is the problem? In an ideal society with AI, humans would not need to work to feed themselves; instead, smart machines would satisfy all human needs. Moreover, humans will not be able to compete with machines in the manufacture of goods for the general market. But on the other hand, each person will have enough time to develop their talents and use these talents in their hobbies. I think that human art and sports will also be popular among in human society.

There is no such thing as an ideal society. Life is hard. Get a helmet.

 

[miketx]

We are all born with talents. We are happiest when we use our talents.

What is the problem? In an ideal society with AI, humans would not need to work to feed themselves; instead, smart machines would satisfy all human needs. Moreover, humans will not be able to compete with machines in the manufacture of goods for the general market. But on the other hand, each person will have enough time to develop their talents and use these talents in their hobbies. I think that human art and sports will also be popular among in human society.

There is no such thing as an ideal society. Life is hard. Get a helmet.

...and a job.

 

[ding]

"What a bunch of fuckin' Karens." ~Founding Fathers of America

 

[Quentin111]

We are all born with talents. We are happiest when we use our talents.

What is the problem? In an ideal society with AI, humans would not need to work to feed themselves; instead, smart machines would satisfy all human needs. Moreover, humans will not be able to compete with machines in the manufacture of goods for the general market. But on the other hand, each person will have enough time to develop their talents and use these talents in their hobbies. I think that human art and sports will also be popular among in human society.

No one works, who builds the machines? Lol. You are the most myopic person here.

It is assumed that civilization will reach such a level that machines can reproduce themselves.

 

[miketx]

We are all born with talents. We are happiest when we use our talents.

What is the problem? In an ideal society with AI, humans would not need to work to feed themselves; instead, smart machines would satisfy all human needs. Moreover, humans will not be able to compete with machines in the manufacture of goods for the general market. But on the other hand, each person will have enough time to develop their talents and use these talents in their hobbies. I think that human art and sports will also be popular among in human society.

No one works, who builds the machines? Lol. You are the most myopic person here.

It is assumed that civilization will reach such a level that machines can reproduce themselves.

Even more myopic than I thought. Who will make the machines when no one has to work UNTIL the machines can make themselves?