Map of Ottoman Empire @ 1900's clearly shows, land NOT OWNED BY ARABS:

[Rigby5]

View attachment 33096

No autonomous or distinct palestine

And, since we both can read Arabic, you can confirm that the title of the map says in Arabic "Lebanon Syria". No mention of Palestine.

Funny how even the Arabs didn't look at it as Palestine, yet we keep hearing about these Palestinians with "ancient roots" who's mythical land got stolen.

"Palestine" is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on humanity.

Nonsense.
Obviously the Ottoman empire would have an interest in suppressing any sort of local unity.

The name Palestine is a European name that was used by the Euopeans only. The Ottoman's called it "southern Syria". The name Palestinian was used only in reference to the Jews of the region only. Look it up.

That is a stupid lie.
The word Palestine refers to the coast of the Land of Canaan way back in ancient Greek and Egyptian references.
Clearly it is where the Philistines got their name, way before the Hebrew invasion around 1000 BC.
There were no Jews in Palestine before this, and the Jews almost never lived there, being kicked out by the Assyrian, Babylonians, Romans, and Crusaders.
Palestinian NEVER referred to Jews.

 

[Rigby5]

View attachment 33096

No autonomous or distinct palestine

And, since we both can read Arabic, you can confirm that the title of the map says in Arabic "Lebanon Syria". No mention of Palestine.

Funny how even the Arabs didn't look at it as Palestine, yet we keep hearing about these Palestinians with "ancient roots" who's mythical land got stolen.

"Palestine" is the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on humanity.

Nonsense.
Obviously the Ottoman empire would have an interest in suppressing any sort of local unity.

The name Palestine is a European name that was used by the Euopeans only. The Ottoman's called it "southern Syria". The name Palestinian was used only in reference to the Jews of the region only. Look it up.

Roudy; here is an informative breakdown of facts and figures concerning the topic:

Interesting how a claim to the land was never made so long as Jordan held control of it, as soon as Israel expelled the Jordanians who had illegally occupied the land, the Arabs living in the land then proceeded to quickly change their charter to now make claims to this land. The question has to be, how can a historic claim change like this? Or could this be a lie?

“There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity… yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel.” Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council

Can a people that never held the sovereignty of land have the sovereignty taken from them? Remember, in any court of law, if you claim something was stole you have show ownership before you can accuse. This then begs the question, “How can someone claim theft of land they never held any sovereignty over?”

Did Israel Steal The Ancestral Home of the Palestinians? Part 3

That is a stupid lie.
The British Mandate for Palestine was etablished in 1920 at the Treaty of Sevres, in order to reward the Palestinians for their help in WWI.
The Palestinians have always existed, even thought they actually are a region of smaller tribes like the Canaanites, Chaldeans, Urites, Amorites, Philistines, Phoenicians, Nabatians, etc.
There obvious are differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese, but they deliberately joined into the federation of Palestine because of their similar past heritage and future goals.

Jordan NEVER laid any claim to any part of Palestine.
They simply helped administer and defend it after Israel tried to illegal invade it.
The current occupation of Jerusalem by Israel is also still totally illegal.

Palestinians always has the legal right to sovereignty due to the fact of the rights of the indigenous.
The fact they were illegally prevented sovereignty by the invading Ottoman Empire means nothing.
The British owed them sovereignty and promised it in return for help in WWI.

And Jews have no right to any sovereignty in Israel because they are not native, neither nor now 3000 years ago when they first tried to take over.

 

[Rigby5]

Explaining Turkey

The article actually starts by discussing President Trump as an unconventional leader. But then, it goes into a couple of examples that are most interesting.

Sweden stubbornly keeping to driving on the left while Norway, Finland, and Denmark drove on the right and how the changeover went about.

But the crux comes when it recalls that Turkey actually sided with Germany during WWII. And it discusses Mustafa Keman, known as “Ataturk,” or “Father of the Turks.”

Ataturk denounced the prior "Young Turks" and went on a rampage of reform. He built hundreds of schools all across Turkey and made elementary education mandatory. Women were forbidden to wear the veil. Ataturk hammered Turkey into a modern secular European republic (and that includes giving women the right to vote and all kinds of such modernization).

(The Shah of Iran tried the same thing but got screwed by Jimmy Carter and the CIA)

snip

here comes the zinger. Ataturk was wise enough to know that he could not achieve his desired reforms unless he completely trashed the Arabic alphabet and the ancient Ottoman alphabet and put in their place the modernized Latin alphabet in which the Turkish language is written today.

There's no way to force you to do this, but I really wish you would take time out now to imagine what life would be like if, all of a sudden, every single word in your life had to be in an alphabet other than the ones you learned as a very young child. Imagine if every single book, beginning with the Bible, the Torah and the Quran, had to be reprinted with Ataturk's new alphabet! Not to mention newspapers, magazines and best-sellers of every kind. And, just as when Sweden made its traffic shift, every road sign in the country had to be changed!

What would you do if suddenly it was decided that the USA would no longer use the Latin alphabet and everything was suddenly changed to something else?

More about this @ Trump is an unconventional leader? How 'bout this guy? - WND

Sorry, but it is important to point out it was only WWI when Turkey sided with Germany.
In WWII, Turkey remained neutral until near the end, when they joined the Allies.

 

[Rigby5]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

Totally wrong.
First of all there was ALWAYS a region known as Palestine, going back to around 5000 BC.
Second is that the British did not invade Palestine, but liberated it with the help of a local rebellion against the Ottoman Empire.
Third is that when the Palestinians helped the British they did so with the assurances of independence and sovereignty, which was formalized into law by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
So that is when the independent country of Palestine was legally recognized and can not be altered by invasion by Zionists.
Jordan and Egypt never took over but only acted as protectors and administrators.

 

[Rigby5]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

There wasn‘t a political entity “palestine“ in the Ottoman Empire. The area was divided and subdivided over the years into different districts, such as Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, and Safed.

That is true, but there was a region known as Palestine from over 7000 years ago, and clearly WWI established Palestine as in independent country.

 

[Mindful]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

Totally wrong.
First of all there was ALWAYS a region known as Palestine, going back to around 5000 BC.
Second is that the British did not invade Palestine, but liberated it with the help of a local rebellion against the Ottoman Empire.
Third is that when the Palestinians helped the British they did so with the assurances of independence and sovereignty, which was formalized into law by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
So that is when the independent country of Palestine was legally recognized and can not be altered by invasion by Zionists.
Jordan and Egypt never took over but only acted as protectors and administrators.

The British were always Arabists.

Peter O‘Toole can attest to that.

 

[Indeependent]

You don't seem to be very clear what you are arguing here. You, like many, are attempting to conflate private property ownership with sovereignty. You, like many, use this as a way to restrict Jewish rights at both ends of the candle, as it were. Because, apparently, you think there should be different rules for Jews. Sigh. Where have we heard that before?

So, to be clear:

You are arguing that the right to purchase property should be withheld from people who are Jewish?!

and/or

You are arguing that the right to self-determination should be withheld from people who are Jewish?

Wrong.
I am separately arguing both issues.

Jews have absolutely no legal right to any political control over Palestine at all, since Jews are almost entirely a minority of foreign illegal immigrants, and that any Jews were allowed to legally immigrate to Palestine on the promise they would never try to get involved rule or sovereignty.
Jews are not the natives nor the majority, in Israel or Palestine/Israel.

Jews have almost no legal right to any land or property, because they did not actually purchase any significant amount of land, unlike the Palestinians, who have valid deeds, titles, bill of sales, etc.

Sigh. Yeah, same old same old.

Jews have no right to self-determination. Because ... reasons.

Jews have no right to purchase property. Because ... reasons.

Jewish sovereignty is illegal because ... reasons.

Jewish property rights are illegal because ... reasons.

Boring. As well as incorrect.

Jews have all the right to self determination in the world, but they have to find some place where they can do that without violating the rights of the indigenous natives.
Jews are not indigenous natives to Palestine, so should have gone somewhere uninhabited, like Madagascar.

Jews have all the right in the world to purchase property, but the problem is they did not and still refuse to pay for anything. They want it all for free, and they want to kill the rightful owners in order to take it.

Jewish sovereignty is illegal in Palestine, not only because they are not indigenous natives, but because the indigenous native Palestinians earned their sovereignty by fighting with the Allies against the Ottoman empire.

Jewish property claims are invalid because they did not pay for almost any land.

Do you enjoy making a jackass out of yourself?
Try posting a fact every now and then.

The facts are well known, that Jews were allowed to immigrate to Palestine on the promise they have no claims or political ambitions for their immigration.
They clearly have no right to break off any of Palestine for a Jewish state, much less take all of it, as they seem inclined.

What facts do you want?
Like the Treaty of San Remo, the Treaty of Sevres, or anything else that establishes Palestine and not Israel?

Jews paid lots of money to Arabs for land and the Arabs were happy to take it.
You are an idiot and have no fans here.

That is just a lie.
No Arab sold any land to Jews because it was illegal.
Some Jews did send money to Turkish frauds, but that had no legal standing.
And the amount of land purchased by Jews in Palestine was miniscule, less than 5%, by all records and census information.

Link?

 

[Indeependent]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

There wasn‘t a political entity “palestine“ in the Ottoman Empire. The area was divided and subdivided over the years into different districts, such as Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, and Safed.

That is true, but there was a region known as Palestine from over 7000 years ago, and clearly WWI established Palestine as in independent country.

Too bad none of the Arab nations agree with you.

 

[Rigby5]

There wasn’t any political entity named palestine during the Ottoman Empire. Waves of foreigners also flooded the area during the Ottoman period, including Albanians, Bosnians, and Circassians. A common surname is Bushnaq, referring to Bosnia. During the subsequent British Mandate, Arabs flooded into the area, in response to improving economic opportunities created by Jews.

That is a lie.
There was almost no relocations during the Ottoman Empire.
First of all it is against the native Moslem traditions to not stay where the bones of your ancestors are buried.
The British conduced annual census data and it shows no massive migrations in or out EXCEPT for Jewish immigration after 1930 or so.
The Arabs never moved.
There was no new economic opportunities, and certainly not created by Jews, who were recent immigrants and empty handed. They did not even own any land.

 

[MartyNYC]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

There wasn‘t a political entity “palestine“ in the Ottoman Empire. The area was divided and subdivided over the years into different districts, such as Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, and Safed.

That is true, but there was a region known as Palestine from over 7000 years ago, and clearly WWI established Palestine as in independent country.

Never been a region known as palestine “over 7,000 years ago.” Palestine is a modern English word.

 

[Rigby5]

Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".

The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years. In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:

Historical facts fly in the face of those who claim: "The Jews stole the land".

The "land" was Ottoman Empire territory for 600 years, and then under the control of the British after WWI once the Ottoman Empire collapsed.

Get it right, the Arabs had no say or control over what happened to the land for 800 years. In fact, the Ottomans who CONQUERED the Arabs were enemies:

Very cleaver those Zionist land theives building their wailing wall over the Al Asqa Mosque.

Um, the Western Wall was built 700+ years BEFORE Aqsa mosque. Jews lived in Jerusalem thousands of years before Muslims even existed. D’oh.

Relief from the Arch of Titus, showing The Spoils of Jerusalem being brought into Rome (video) | Khan Academy

That is foolish.
The western wall is a foundation of an ancient temple to Baal, and has no indications of Hebrew heritage.
It is megolith construction, which Jews NEVER did. In fact, it could only have been Canaanite construction since not even Romans used stones that large.

Of course Islam did not exist before 640 or so, but it clearly was of Arab construction and not Hebrew or Jewish.
The Land of Canaan goes back to 8000 BC.
The Hebrew invasion by Egyptian refugees did not happen until around 1000 BC.

 

[Rigby5]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

There wasn‘t a political entity “palestine“ in the Ottoman Empire. The area was divided and subdivided over the years into different districts, such as Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, and Safed.

That is true, but there was a region known as Palestine from over 7000 years ago, and clearly WWI established Palestine as in independent country.

Too bad none of the Arab nations agree with you.

There is no Arab nation that disagrees the British Mandate for Palestine was not created legally at the Treaty of Sevres in 1920. All the local Arab nations were at the conference and agreed to the treaty.

 

[Rigby5]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

There wasn‘t a political entity “palestine“ in the Ottoman Empire. The area was divided and subdivided over the years into different districts, such as Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, and Safed.

That is true, but there was a region known as Palestine from over 7000 years ago, and clearly WWI established Palestine as in independent country.

Never been a region known as palestine “over 7,000 years ago.” Palestine is a modern English word.

Foolish.
If that were so, then where did the Philistines get their name?

 

[MartyNYC]

There wasn’t any political entity named palestine during the Ottoman Empire. Waves of foreigners also flooded the area during the Ottoman period, including Albanians, Bosnians, and Circassians. A common surname is Bushnaq, referring to Bosnia. During the subsequent British Mandate, Arabs flooded into the area, in response to improving economic opportunities created by Jews.

That is a lie.
There was almost no relocations during the Ottoman Empire.
First of all it is against the native Moslem traditions to not stay where the bones of your ancestors are buried.
The British conduced annual census data and it shows no massive migrations in or out EXCEPT for Jewish immigration after 1930 or so.
The Arabs never moved.
There was no new economic opportunities, and certainly not created by Jews, who were recent immigrants and empty handed. They did not even own any land.

You’re uninformed. There was no political entity “palestine” in the Ottoman Empire, during which time the area was divided into districts of Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, Safed. Palestine is an English word, first used politically by Britain which named the British Mandate “palestine.”

Waves of Algerians, Bosnians, Circassians during the Ottoman period is well-documented. Mehmed Ali of Egypt imported vast numbers of people deployed in his army. Churchill spoke of the Arabs flooding into British palestine during the Mandate.

Now, you know.

 

[MartyNYC]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

There wasn‘t a political entity “palestine“ in the Ottoman Empire. The area was divided and subdivided over the years into different districts, such as Jerusalem, Nablus, Gaza, and Safed.

That is true, but there was a region known as Palestine from over 7000 years ago, and clearly WWI established Palestine as in independent country.

Never been a region known as palestine “over 7,000 years ago.” Palestine is a modern English word.

Foolish.
If that were so, then where did the Philistines get their name?

Who’s foolish? Philistine is an English word. Philistines were a tribe of Sea Peoples from the Greek world, who didn’t identify as Philistines. Philistines raided Egypt around 1177 BCE—Is that over 7,000 years ago? Do the math, Einstein.

 

[Mindful]

There wasn’t any political entity named palestine during the Ottoman Empire. Waves of foreigners also flooded the area during the Ottoman period, including Albanians, Bosnians, and Circassians. A common surname is Bushnaq, referring to Bosnia. During the subsequent British Mandate, Arabs flooded into the area, in response to improving economic opportunities created by Jews.

That is a lie.
There was almost no relocations during the Ottoman Empire.
First of all it is against the native Moslem traditions to not stay where the bones of your ancestors are buried.
The British conduced annual census data and it shows no massive migrations in or out EXCEPT for Jewish immigration after 1930 or so.
The Arabs never moved.
There was no new economic opportunities, and certainly not created by Jews, who were recent immigrants and empty handed. They did not even own any land.

How many times have we been here before?

 

[Rigby5]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

Totally wrong.
First of all there was ALWAYS a region known as Palestine, going back to around 5000 BC.
Second is that the British did not invade Palestine, but liberated it with the help of a local rebellion against the Ottoman Empire.
Third is that when the Palestinians helped the British they did so with the assurances of independence and sovereignty, which was formalized into law by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
So that is when the independent country of Palestine was legally recognized and can not be altered by invasion by Zionists.
Jordan and Egypt never took over but only acted as protectors and administrators.

The British were always Arabists.

Peter O‘Toole can attest to that.

You mean T.E. Lawrence I assume?

And there simply were almost no Jews in Palestine in 1916.

{...

	Census Group	Population​	Percentage​
	Muslim	403,795​	85.5​
	Christian	43,659​	9.2​
	Jewish	15,001​	3.2​

...}

Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948

www.cjpme.org

​

 

[Mindful]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

Totally wrong.
First of all there was ALWAYS a region known as Palestine, going back to around 5000 BC.
Second is that the British did not invade Palestine, but liberated it with the help of a local rebellion against the Ottoman Empire.
Third is that when the Palestinians helped the British they did so with the assurances of independence and sovereignty, which was formalized into law by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
So that is when the independent country of Palestine was legally recognized and can not be altered by invasion by Zionists.
Jordan and Egypt never took over but only acted as protectors and administrators.

The British were always Arabists.

Peter O‘Toole can attest to that.

You mean T.E. Lawrence I assume?

And there simply were almost no Jews in Palestine in 1916.

{...

	Census Group	Population​	Percentage​
	Muslim	403,795​	85.5​
	Christian	43,659​	9.2​
	Jewish	15,001​	3.2​

...}

Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948

www.cjpme.org

​

I‘ve heard it all before.

 

[MartyNYC]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

Totally wrong.
First of all there was ALWAYS a region known as Palestine, going back to around 5000 BC.
Second is that the British did not invade Palestine, but liberated it with the help of a local rebellion against the Ottoman Empire.
Third is that when the Palestinians helped the British they did so with the assurances of independence and sovereignty, which was formalized into law by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
So that is when the independent country of Palestine was legally recognized and can not be altered by invasion by Zionists.
Jordan and Egypt never took over but only acted as protectors and administrators.

The British were always Arabists.

Peter O‘Toole can attest to that.

You mean T.E. Lawrence I assume?

And there simply were almost no Jews in Palestine in 1916.

{...

	Census Group	Population​	Percentage​
	Muslim	403,795​	85.5​
	Christian	43,659​	9.2​
	Jewish	15,001​	3.2​

...}

Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948

www.cjpme.org

There was no palestine in 1916. Only historically correct name is Israel.

Britain named the British Mandate “palestine” which went into effect in 1923.

​

 

[MartyNYC]

Not only was there no such country as "Palestine", in 1946, there had never been a country called Palestine. Before the British conquered Jerusalem, Palestine was a sub-province of the Ottoman Empire. (And after the British left, of course, Jordan and Egypt moved in to occupy Gaza and the West Bank.)

Totally wrong.
First of all there was ALWAYS a region known as Palestine, going back to around 5000 BC.
Second is that the British did not invade Palestine, but liberated it with the help of a local rebellion against the Ottoman Empire.
Third is that when the Palestinians helped the British they did so with the assurances of independence and sovereignty, which was formalized into law by the Treaty of Sevres in 1920.
So that is when the independent country of Palestine was legally recognized and can not be altered by invasion by Zionists.
Jordan and Egypt never took over but only acted as protectors and administrators.

The British were always Arabists.

Peter O‘Toole can attest to that.

You mean T.E. Lawrence I assume?

And there simply were almost no Jews in Palestine in 1916.

{...

	Census Group	Population​	Percentage​
	Muslim	403,795​	85.5​
	Christian	43,659​	9.2​
	Jewish	15,001​	3.2​

...}

Demographics of Historic Palestine prior to 1948

www.cjpme.org

There was no palestine in 1916. Only historically correct name is Israel.

Britain named the British Mandate “palestine” which went into effect in 1923.

​