Malaysian airliner missing with 239 people on board

[wavingrl]

Another bit of 'filler' from the in depth analyses on CNN.

No--the US doesn't have dedicated satellites to cover the Indian Ocean. 'Limited financial resources' is one reason for the lack.

In this same segment the question was posed--'Isn't it time for the US to take over the investigation?'

I hope not--whatever support the US can provide I am in favor of that.

The scope of the investigation will become more daunting in a matter of days. Without the pinger to signal, it is very confusing how they will be able to locate the plane. Anyone have an idea?

I am starting to think that the plane is in a hanger somewhere.

The possibilities are that the plane is in a hanger or on the bottom of the ocean. It is 50/50 and since the FBI didn't find anything on the pilot's flight simulator and since the last words of the pilot were changed to be normal, I think the plane is in a hanger somewhere.

CNN discussed the implications of the changed last words tonight. I am going with there is no significance at this point. Could be--I need more facts before I am convinced.

Then clarification was made on 'criminal investigation'. There may be no crime but forensic techniques can be employed to determine this.

The nuclear sub from the UK is said to have the most appropriate technology for this type of search. After it is utilized--I would think the search would be adapted. There is just no logic to support the use of planes and ships and the staff required indefinitely. They are taking pictures and using sonar to record sounds? --then they can study the results and perhaps gain further insight. Or maybe there is some as yet unknown fyi that can change everything.
I just can't get into the more 'out there' alternatives. ie --Covert mission of the CIA and the plane is being held at Diego Garcia in the Maldives. The passenger from the US that worked for IBM--? Ed Woods? --is said to have sent a text with this fyi.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The scope of the investigation will become more daunting in a matter of days. Without the pinger to signal, it is very confusing how they will be able to locate the plane. Anyone have an idea?

I am starting to think that the plane is in a hanger somewhere.

The possibilities are that the plane is in a hanger or on the bottom of the ocean. It is 50/50 and since the FBI didn't find anything on the pilot's flight simulator and since the last words of the pilot were changed to be normal, I think the plane is in a hanger somewhere.

CNN discussed the implications of the changed last words tonight. I am going with there is no significance at this point. Could be--I need more facts before I am convinced.

Then clarification was made on 'criminal investigation'. There may be no crime but forensic techniques can be employed to determine this.

The nuclear sub from the UK is said to have the most appropriate technology for this type of search. After it is utilized--I would think the search would be adapted. There is just no logic to support the use of planes and ships and the staff required indefinitely. They are taking pictures and using sonar to record sounds? --then they can study the results and perhaps gain further insight. Or maybe there is some as yet unknown fyi that can change everything.
I just can't get into the more 'out there' alternatives. ie --Covert mission of the CIA and the plane is being held at Diego Garcia in the Maldives. The passenger from the US that worked for IBM--? Ed Woods? --is said to have sent a text with this fyi.

it looks like the Malaysians made that up as well

typically pilots repeat back the directive given

then may add some personalized hand over sign off

 

[wavingrl]

II just can't get into the more 'out there' alternatives. ie --Covert mission of the CIA and the plane is being held at Diego Garcia in the Maldives. The passenger from the US that worked for IBM--? Ed Woods? --is said to have sent a text with this fyi.

it looks like the Malaysians made that up as well

typically pilots repeat back the directive given

then may add some personalized hand over sign off

Yes, John--I think there is more to be known.

The tone from CNN this AM is --'there may be more data that Malaysian's haven't released---which is understandable--in the process of such an investigation'. The family members from China spoke with top level officials yesterday--and were said to have been given detailed fyi--then weren't given time to ask questions.

Then--explanations of why the countries involved might not share everything collected by their satellites and other defense technology---'We may never find the plane'. I believe the Malaysian officials said that also to the families yesterday.

It was noted that although the US has provided equipment--it hasn't put a lot of 'manpower' into this. Whatever else---that may or may not be known--goodwill toward the US is not a likely outcome and that is not unusual. If other members of the global community were shall we say---'more trustworthy'--perhaps it would make sense to share more openly--but such is not the case.

Let some wealthy person fund a search of the Indian Ocean. I think some sort of a memorial to those who lost their lives on Flight 370 would be appropriate, too.

 

[wavingrl]

'Malaysian Airlines had not been trained to handle a catastrophic accident'. Today's counseling thought from CNN.

all right.

Even without 'support' from CNN--as the story unfolded--I was able to retain some degree of objectivity.

Why Malaysia Airlines still seems to be focused on the pilots or I suppose and/or crew--clearly is not something that can be revealed at this time. 'Someday there will be a prosecution'--they said.

The FBI found nothing exceptional on the pilot's hard drives and simulator and nothing on the copilot. They have spoken with the pilot's family--marital problems are not thought to have been a factor which would have led to a psychological break. The pilot and copilot continue to be described as people of integrity and competence.

No one has yet convinced me of 'ulterior motives' in the final communication between Malaysia Flight 370 and the controllers.

I guess I'll have to go with--there was some type of malfunction--maybe some type of gas affected the air supply--mistakes were made and 'nobody' on the earth at that precise moment happened to be watching or looking. Difficult theory to accept--but so are many others.

 

[Indofred]

Were airplanes to disappear more often then there'd no doubt be technology developed to look for them.

After this, I can see a world where airliners are forced to relay position and other data to a central station, so this situation can never happen again.
The crash site would be fixed very quickly.

Add to that, the technology we have now, allowing data that is normally stored in the black boxes, to be instantly transmitted in data packets to a ground station.

 

[HenryBHough]

After this, I can see a world where airliners are forced to relay position and other data to a central station, so this situation can never happen again.
The crash site would be fixed very quickly.

Coming soon (already here for some airlines) WiFi worldwide. That means if you wanted to know where an airplane was at any time just call Google with the name of any one individual on board and they could tell you in seconds. Also give you that person's browsing history for the previous decade or so and precise location at any time during that period.

Even better, of course, when some future regime has everybody implanted with a satellite reporting RFI chip at birth. Think that's ludicrous? In 1978 I challenged some excellent TV designers to come up with a receiver light enough and thin enough to hang on the wall. They laughed.

Then.

They wouldn't even try so others, not inhibited by "conventional thinking" did the job for them.

 

[wavingrl]

Any respect that I might have had for officials in Malaysia connected to this is gone.

Apparently, Australia has 'good' relationships with both China and Malaysia and is willing to search 'forever' for this plane. Good to have such an ally.

The ? defense minister of Malaysia/someone of high authority --is meeting with Chuck Hagel/US Defense Dept--to seek further assistance. Whatever we can do--as far as I am concerned--but until they have a some idea of where to search I can't believe it will accomplish much.

 

[bianco]

Any respect that I might have had for officials in Malaysia connected to this is gone.

Apparently, Australia has 'good' relationships with both China and Malaysia and is willing to search 'forever' for this plane. Good to have such an ally.

The ? defense minister of Malaysia/someone of high authority --is meeting with Chuck Hagel/US Defense Dept--to seek further assistance. Whatever we can do--as far as I am concerned--but until they have a some idea of where to search I can't believe it will accomplish much.

Australia has a good relationship with Malaysia...until next time it execution-hangs an Aussie!
Then, as will happen with Indonesia when it execution-shreds Aussie boys Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumaran, the relationship will be in the gutter, and flushed away permanently.
They will likely be labelled as "barbaric" with all that entails ...like Malaysia was by former PM Bob when it hanged Barlow and Chambers;

Barlow and Chambers execution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Australian Prime Minister Bob Hawke made a passionate plea for a stay of execution on behalf of the two men.

Hawke later described the hanging as "barbaric", a remark which chilled Australian relations with Malaysia.[23] Relations between the two nations were reportedly affected for a decade afterwards.[24] In response to the argument that no one has the right to take another's life, then-Malaysian Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad replied, "You should tell that to the drug traffickers."[25]

At a press conference that occurred after the hangings Mahathir criticised the use of the word "barbaric" and said it should not have been used to refer to Malaysia because "we have never had any lynchings and things like that which only barbarians like to do." He also said that hanging as a method of executing criminals originated in the West.[26]

UMNO Youth Leader Anwar Ibrahim also said use of the term "barbaric" was regrettable. He said "It is a generative word that passes judgement on our society—something we cannot accept and did not expect from such a friendly country."

#####

LOL

Wait til they execution-hang the next Aussie, they'll get called more than "barbaric".

So will Indonesia...there'll be big drama when they execution-shred Chan and Sukumaran waiting now on death row for the day they'll be dragged from their cells.
Indonesia will likely get called every expletive known to man, and then some.
..and revenge taken.

I never had any respect for officials in Malaysia in the first place...so I had none to be gone.
Nothing done by Malaysia regarding the missing plane surprises me one iota.


Australia-Asia is a one way street...we give, they take.
One day it might be different, might...if we get some new Aussie politicians, with bones made of Aussie steel.

 

[wavingrl]

With regard to the pp--'what is said officially'--sounds good, doesn't it?

I don't believe a lot of it.

I believe that 'behind the scenes' there are some negative things being said.

The last remark by someone in authority in Australia--'We will search until hell freezes over'--I assume that was to reassure the families? If anyone does think about them.

A commentator on CNN--pilot who had flown 777's for US--said, 'At first we were surprised that pictures were taken with passengers in the cockpit--against regulations in US for about 25 years. Then the lack of security with respect to cockpit doors--at least since 911 there have been strict policies widely utilized by most airlines --on this.' He gave a few more examples.

Malaysia --what can be said? Time to make some changes---past time.

'Pathetic excuse for an airline'--basically what I think.

~~~~~~~~
I had not thought of Malaysia one way or the other. A chilling view of that part of the world.

I can only hope that the US doesn't have to 'take a leadership role'. Plenty to focus on at home---Fort Hood shooting and so many other critical issues. I cannot help but believe Malaysia Airlines knew basic regulations--chose to do things 'their' way. Maybe Australia or China can provide guidance in the future? Someone should, jmo.

 

[Politico]

And still no one knows anything.

 

[wavingrl]

And still no one knows anything.

I know 'something'. Malaysia Airlines and Malaysian officials --beyond incompetent.

Not 'much' that can be done about it either as far as I can tell. Infuriating.

 

[Indofred]

Reported pings heard by chinese ship.
No one is saying it's this aircraft.

 

[Indofred]

And still no one knows anything.

I know 'something'. Malaysia Airlines and Malaysian officials --beyond incompetent.

Not 'much' that can be done about it either as far as I can tell. Infuriating.

They've cocked up but the above may be going a little far.
Several countries have also failed to find anything.

 

[wavingrl]

And still no one knows anything.

I know 'something'. Malaysia Airlines and Malaysian officials --beyond incompetent.

Not 'much' that can be done about it either as far as I can tell. Infuriating.

They've cocked up but the above may be going a little far.
Several countries have also failed to find anything.

Failing to find the plane is one thing---the handling of the entire incident is another.

It sounds like the majority of airlines have had more effective security policies in place for a decade. It has been inferred that there were some problems with storage of batteries for the black boxes, possibly the plane did not receive a scheduled maintenance check --for the ? black box? in 2012 and they state that this is a criminal investigation that will end in prosecution --a 'deliberate act' caused the plane to disappear--which may be procedure but leads to individual conclusions being drawn. The plane is 'just gone'--they had ways and means of tracking the plane--and apparently are successful in tracking other planes--'just gone'--that shakes my faith in their credibility.

They are considering hiring a US firm to repair their image. Perhaps these things will be explained and I am overreacting.

eta: Maybe they have already hired the 'tarnished image' firm. There was a statement about the batteries. They are said to be good until June--needed to be changed then. Which doesn't tell us much--if they were not stored properly in a cool/refrigerated climate--which was specified by an inspector--were they working at all? But, yes--address each issue--that is the mantra of the PR firm--the one that represented Bill Clinton and Penn State and others.

 

[wavingrl]

at about 8:30 AM I turned the TV on and this was being discussed--

New findings may refocus search for Malaysia Airlines jet - CNN.com


<(CNN) -- In what may turn out to be breakthroughs in the monthlong search for Malaysia Airlines flight 370, a Chinese patrol ship searching the southern Indian Ocean discovered Saturday the pulse signal used by so-called black boxes, and planes have identified new objects in the water, officials said.

"I have been advised that a series of sounds have been detected by a Chinese ship in the search area," Angus Houston, the chief coordinator of Australia's Joint Agency Coordination Centre, said in a prepared statement.

"The characteristics reported are consistent with the aircraft black box," he said, adding that a number of white objects were sited about 56 miles (90 kilometers) away.

"However, there is no confirmation at this stage that the signals and the objects are related to the missing aircraft," the retired air chief marshal said.
>



Turned it off --and 4hours later--still talking about the same thing.

--Did the Chinese newspaper err in reporting this--it is all over state TV in China?

--Did they first inform the Australians who are coordinating the search--or did they first inform Malaysia?

--No confirmation from Malaysia or Australia yet. eta: I see in the article that Angus Houston, Aussie coordinator was informed and issued this statement. At 8:30--he had not done that.

--How awful this will be for the families if it isn't true. Then why did CNN choose to 'take that risk', too?

--Probably 8-12--24 more hours to go --I will give the CNN staff credit for stamina. How do they rehabilitate themselves when not on the air?

--'Do the Chinese have more sophisticated equipment than we thought?' 'The Chinese haven't been that accurate.' 'We are hopeful that this is a substantial lead---they should get the Blue Fin in the water--and verify.' Yes--oh, yes--whatever equipment exists--get it over to this site and find out. Where are the ships--how long will it take them to get to the new site---I think if I were Angus Houston--I would be adamant about 'PDQ'--get the equipment over there immediately. If the Blue Fin is on a ship that happens to be a day away--that will be too much.

 

[bianco]

If Malaysia spent less time flogging women [and men] and more time implementing better air security...the world would likely be a lot better off.

Archives | The Star Online.

Three Muslim women were caned last Tuesday for engaging in illicit sex, said Home Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein.

They were the first women in Malaysia to receive such punishment under syariah law.

Two of them where whipped six times and the third was given four strokes of the rotan at Kajang Prison.

The issue of caning of women has ignited a fierce debate in the country after 32-year-old Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno was sentenced to be caned for drinking beer in July last year.

etc

 

[namvet]

If Malaysia spent less time flogging women [and men] and more time implementing better air security...the world would likely be a lot better off.

Archives | The Star Online.

Three Muslim women were caned last Tuesday for engaging in illicit sex, said Home Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein.

They were the first women in Malaysia to receive such punishment under syariah law.

Two of them where whipped six times and the third was given four strokes of the rotan at Kajang Prison.

The issue of caning of women has ignited a fierce debate in the country after 32-year-old Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno was sentenced to be caned for drinking beer in July last year.

etc

MALAYSIA TOUTS TOURISM, BUT ADMITS TO CANING 30,000 FOREIGNERS

link

 

[Indofred]

If Malaysia spent less time flogging women [and men] and more time implementing better air security...the world would likely be a lot better off.

Archives | The Star Online.

Three Muslim women were caned last Tuesday for engaging in illicit sex, said Home Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein.

They were the first women in Malaysia to receive such punishment under syariah law.

Two of them where whipped six times and the third was given four strokes of the rotan at Kajang Prison.

The issue of caning of women has ignited a fierce debate in the country after 32-year-old Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno was sentenced to be caned for drinking beer in July last year.

etc

MALAYSIA TOUTS TOURISM, BUT ADMITS TO CANING 30,000 FOREIGNERS

link

Tourism Malaysia Corporate Website

Millions of tourists and massive chunks of cash.
You'd have to be mad to risk that revenue and the Malaysian are far from mad. In fact, the attitude is very capitalist, as you see from the massive rise in tourist numbers.

Malaysia canes drug dealers, illegal immigrants and so on but leaves tourists alone.
Oddly enough, the more right leaning member of this forum would probably support caning illegals, but they didn't think of it first so they have to condemn it.

 

[bianco]

If Malaysia spent less time flogging women [and men] and more time implementing better air security...the world would likely be a lot better off.

Archives | The Star Online.

Three Muslim women were caned last Tuesday for engaging in illicit sex, said Home Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein.

They were the first women in Malaysia to receive such punishment under syariah law.

Two of them where whipped six times and the third was given four strokes of the rotan at Kajang Prison.

The issue of caning of women has ignited a fierce debate in the country after 32-year-old Kartika Sari Dewi Shukarno was sentenced to be caned for drinking beer in July last year.

etc

MALAYSIA TOUTS TOURISM, BUT ADMITS TO CANING 30,000 FOREIGNERS

link

Slow-learners are still setting foot in Malaysia/Asia.

 

[bianco]

If Malaysia spent less time flogging women [and men] and more time implementing better air security...the world would likely be a lot better off.

Archives | The Star Online.

MALAYSIA TOUTS TOURISM, BUT ADMITS TO CANING 30,000 FOREIGNERS

link

Tourism Malaysia Corporate Website

Millions of tourists and massive chunks of cash.
You'd have to be mad to risk that revenue and the Malaysian are far from mad. In fact, the attitude is very capitalist, as you see from the massive rise in tourist numbers.

Malaysia canes drug dealers, illegal immigrants and so on but leaves tourists alone.

Not what the American and Singapore newspapers state.

Malaysia Touts Tourism, But Admits to Caning 30,000 Foreigners

Unfortunately, one of the surprises foreign visitors actually get is a good caning.

According to the Straits Times of Singapore, &#8220;Malaysia has said it caned nearly 30,000 foreigners since 2005, a revelation that drew condemnation &#8230; from rights groups who demanded an end to the &#8216;barbaric&#8217; practice.&#8221;