Macy's employee fired for not letting tranny use women's fitting room

[Jarhead]

because same sex bathrooms aren't "to prevent rape," dumbass.

Gee, no chance rapes would go up if late at night women entered a bathroom where a hiding man was in.. Nope, not a chance..

I suppose they have locks on bathrooms in office buildings and in many fast food restaurants, because ther'es no risk of rape in bathrooms.

Do you feel like a moron when you make your posts?

Wait, so rapists avoid women's bathrooms because they dont want to break the RULES, but have no problem breaking Rape LAWS???? You run with that.

yo...bro....you stole the point I made a few posts down.

Thats plagiarism...or something like that.

Come up with your own material.

 

[G.T.]

Gee, no chance rapes would go up if late at night women entered a bathroom where a hiding man was in.. Nope, not a chance..

I suppose they have locks on bathrooms in office buildings and in many fast food restaurants, because ther'es no risk of rape in bathrooms.

Do you feel like a moron when you make your posts?

Wait, so rapists avoid women's bathrooms because they dont want to break the RULES, but have no problem breaking Rape LAWS???? You run with that.

yo...bro....you stole the point I made a few posts down.

Thats plagiarism...or something like that.

Come up with your own material.

I was typing that story about wells beach when you posted that and posted it right after, before seeing it. scout's honor.

 

[Jarhead]

Wait, so rapists avoid women's bathrooms because they dont want to break the RULES, but have no problem breaking Rape LAWS???? You run with that.

yo...bro....you stole the point I made a few posts down.

Thats plagiarism...or something like that.

Come up with your own material.

I was typing that story about wells beach when you posted that and posted it right after, before seeing it. scout's honor.

The Wells beach story is hysterical.

My wife has let one out here and there over the last 2 and a half decades....but she will never admit it was her.

 

[samjones]

these people are miserable no matter what. I know a tranny who had it done, and still tried to kill "her"self afterwards. These people are seriouslly mentally all, and currently society just enables them rather than treating them.

Surely you must believe that they are at least attempting treatment with the gender reassignment surgery. Whether you agree that this will be effective or not.

You seem to think you have the key to fixing these poor souls. Enlighten us.

 

[Jarhead]

these people are miserable no matter what. I know a tranny who had it done, and still tried to kill "her"self afterwards. These people are seriouslly mentally all, and currently society just enables them rather than treating them.

Surely you must believe that they are at least attempting treatment with the gender reassignment surgery. Whether you agree that this will be effective or not.

You seem to think you have the key to fixing these poor souls. Enlighten us.

He sees them as mentally ill.

SO his solution is therapy.

God forbid if mainstreaming them is a solution....

 

[samjones]

He sees them as mentally ill.

SO his solution is therapy.

God forbid if mainstreaming them is a solution....

Surely years of therapy precedes any American gender reassignment surgery.... It's a big deal.

 

[tinydancer]

Texas Macy's worker Natalie Johnson fired after refusing to allow transgender use women's fitting room | Mail Online

This is my favorite example of liberals enabling the mentally ill. Someone lost their job over using reason and facing reality, unlike the mentally il person who refuses to accept what they are. Yet libs cater and bend over backward to enable the mentally ill. Pathetic.

I dont agree with the mentally ill part of your post at all.

However, did Macys consider the semtiments of women that use the dressing room? How women would feel if they were aware that biological men were allowed to use the same dressing area?

What about the conflict that will arise when a pervert makes believe he is a trnasgender just so he can jerk off in the dressing room knowing there are women right next door to him stripped down to their panties?

Picture it. Saturn plant in Springhill. My husband goes into work after a 5 day. Wierd shifts there. Continental shift.
My husband sees Dean coming out of the cafeteria. Says hey.
He's walking with his boss and almost passes out going "did Dean get tits?".

His boss almost thru him thru the wall saying "OMG we are not even allowed to say a peep about this". My husband had missed the sensitivity training because of the 5 day.

Real deal. Real story. Dean a fellow worker at Saturn wanted to become a woman so he could be a lesbian lover to his lesbian girlfriend.

I know. I know. Some people's heads are exploding right now. I'm telling you they turned the plant upside down and gave Dean aka Deanna his/her own bathroom.

The women workers at the plant went crazy when they found out Dean would use their washroom.

My transgender story. But seriously can you blame the women?

 

[tinydancer]

He sees them as mentally ill.

SO his solution is therapy.

God forbid if mainstreaming them is a solution....

Surely years of therapy precedes any American gender reassignment surgery.... It's a big deal.

You have to live as a woman for a couple of years in advance of the surgery. Hence the women at the plant that knew Dean as Dean didn't want to go to the same bathroom as him who is now turning into a her.

 

[Againsheila]

Texas Macy's worker Natalie Johnson fired after refusing to allow transgender use women's fitting room | Mail Online

This is my favorite example of liberals enabling the mentally ill. Someone lost their job over using reason and facing reality, unlike the mentally il person who refuses to accept what they are. Yet libs cater and bend over backward to enable the mentally ill. Pathetic.

I dont agree with the mentally ill part of your post at all.

However, did Macys consider the semtiments of women that use the dressing room? How women would feel if they were aware that biological men were allowed to use the same dressing area?

What about the conflict that will arise when a pervert makes believe he is a trnasgender just so he can jerk off in the dressing room knowing there are women right next door to him stripped down to their panties?

Picture it. Saturn plant in Springhill. My husband goes into work after a 5 day. Wierd shifts there. Continental shift.
My husband sees Dean coming out of the cafeteria. Says hey.
He's walking with his boss and almost passes out going "did Dean get tits?".

His boss almost thru him thru the wall saying "OMG we are not even allowed to say a peep about this". My husband had missed the sensitivity training because of the 5 day.

Real deal. Real story. Dean a fellow worker at Saturn wanted to become a woman so he could be a lesbian lover to his lesbian girlfriend.

I know. I know. Some people's heads are exploding right now. I'm telling you they turned the plant upside down and gave Dean aka Deanna his/her own bathroom.

The women workers at the plant went crazy when they found out Dean would use their washroom.

My transgender story. But seriously can you blame the women?

I really don't think it should be that big of a deal. I remember my sister telling me how embarrassed she was when she walked into the men's bathroom by mistake.

It wouldn't have bothered me. He uses the stall like everyone else, it's not like we women have urinals....

 

[Charles_Main]

Texas Macy's worker Natalie Johnson fired after refusing to allow transgender use women's fitting room | Mail Online

This is my favorite example of liberals enabling the mentally ill. Someone lost their job over using reason and facing reality, unlike the mentally il person who refuses to accept what they are. Yet libs cater and bend over backward to enable the mentally ill. Pathetic.

Sheer insanity, Unless dude got the parts chopped, and is fully a woman now. It is insanity to think he should be allowed to use the the Female Facilities, and even more lunacy that the Employee was fired over this.

What a Joke.

 

[samjones]

Sheer insanity, Unless dude got the parts chopped, and is fully a woman now. It is insanity to think he should be allowed to use the the Female Facilities, and even more lunacy that the Employee was fired over this.

What a Joke.

The term "transgender" was used in OP, which should mean that she's legally recognized as a woman.

I don't know if the woman deserved to be fired or not, but honestly, if the state recognizes you as a woman then on what grounds could a public place possibly deny you access to the public restroom?

Maybe I don't like it that the gays are allowed in the mens room. Maybe I think they're only there to sneak a peak at my ding dong. That doesn't mean I can insist that Macy's ban all men with mustaches from the John.

Take my word... I've tried.

 

[WillowTree]

Texas Macy's worker Natalie Johnson fired after refusing to allow transgender use women's fitting room | Mail Online

This is my favorite example of liberals enabling the mentally ill. Someone lost their job over using reason and facing reality, unlike the mentally il person who refuses to accept what they are. Yet libs cater and bend over backward to enable the mentally ill. Pathetic.

That sucks.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Sheer insanity, Unless dude got the parts chopped, and is fully a woman now. It is insanity to think he should be allowed to use the the Female Facilities, and even more lunacy that the Employee was fired over this.

What a Joke.

Yet another example of conservative hypocrisy and inconsistency – within the law, do private business owners have the authority to hire and fire as they see fit or not? And what’s the conservative ‘solution,’ have the government compel a private business to rehire a fired employee? Doesn’t sound very conservative.

 

[WillowTree]

Sheer insanity, Unless dude got the parts chopped, and is fully a woman now. It is insanity to think he should be allowed to use the the Female Facilities, and even more lunacy that the Employee was fired over this.

What a Joke.

Yet another example of conservative hypocrisy and inconsistency – within the law, do private business owners have the authority to hire and fire as they see fit or not? And what’s the conservative ‘solution,’ have the government compel a private business to rehire a fired employee? Doesn’t sound very conservative.

and how did you extrapolate that? pray tell? we'd love to know.







what a libtard moron you izzz.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Texas Macy's worker Natalie Johnson fired after refusing to allow transgender use women's fitting room | Mail Online

This is my favorite example of liberals enabling the mentally ill. Someone lost their job over using reason and facing reality, unlike the mentally il person who refuses to accept what they are. Yet libs cater and bend over backward to enable the mentally ill. Pathetic.

That sucks.

I wonder if this would have been accepted if it were a Muslim male or a female Muslim clerk stopping what appeared to be a male from entering a female changing area?

 

[McDowell's]

Sheer insanity, Unless dude got the parts chopped, and is fully a woman now. It is insanity to think he should be allowed to use the the Female Facilities, and even more lunacy that the Employee was fired over this.

What a Joke.

Yet another example of conservative hypocrisy and inconsistency – within the law, do private business owners have the authority to hire and fire as they see fit or not? And what’s the conservative ‘solution,’ have the government compel a private business to rehire a fired employee? Doesn’t sound very conservative.

and how did you extrapolate that? pray tell? we'd love to know.







what a libtard moron you izzz.

That's what I was wondering...must eat a lot of fiber because he pulled a strawman right outta his ass!

 

[McDowell's]

He sees them as mentally ill.

SO his solution is therapy.

God forbid if mainstreaming them is a solution....

Surely years of therapy precedes any American gender reassignment surgery.... It's a big deal.

You have to live as a woman for a couple of years in advance of the surgery. Hence the women at the plant that knew Dean as Dean didn't want to go to the same bathroom as him who is now turning into a her.

I'm not sure if it's that long. I had a friend undergo gender reassignment surgery and she was presenting female for less than a year beforehand.. if I remember correctly.

 

[Portland_Patty]

The amount of ignorance displayed in this discussion is flabbergasting.

My qualifications for butting in: Four decades of living as a "man", including a career in the military followed by making the transsexual change in the mid 1980's (December '87 surgery date), and living and working as a woman since March 1986.

Lets get something out of the way first. Sex, gender, and sexual orientation are three distinctly different things.

Sex is biological. XX or XY chromosomes, innie or outie, sperm or egg. Ultimately its a person's role in reproduction.

Gender is one's role in life, how one relates to others. Behavior, interests and clothing choices and much much more. In society there are things expected of men and things expected of women. Many of this is stereotype. Men, mostly, like cars. Women, in general, think of cars as a means to get from point A to B, and to look good doing it. Gender roles today are much less rigid than this suggests, and much much more flexible than in the 50's when I grew up.

To make the point as simply as possible sex: is between the legs, gender is between the ears.

Sexual orientation is distinct from either of those. Its who you are attracted to. It doesn't mean who you have sex with but who you _WANT_ to have sex with. Some people are gay but for any number of reasons choose not to be sexual with anyone. The straight person who chooses to be celibate is in exactly the same boat. A Catholic priest takes a vow of celibacy. That doesn't mean he doesn't find women attractive but that he chooses not to express his feelings physically.

In the vast majority of cases all three agree. The result is a heterosexual man or woman. Occasionally they do not agree. If physical anatomy and gender identity agree, but sexual orientation doesn't the result is a gay man or woman.

In the case of transsexuals anatomy and gender identity disagree. We _know_ we are that something is wrong. In most cases it takes a while to work out exactly what is wrong, what is the source of the deep unhappiness we feel. Everything in the world says one thing, but our hearts say something else. In my case the realization hit me like a lightning bolt at age nine. That a person's anatomy and identity differ makes no sense to people who do not have the same feelings in their hearts. Its not an easy thing to understand for people who have gender dysphoria much less for people who do not.

"Dysphoria" is the opposite of "euphoria" and is the term used for the medical condition. Gender Identity Disorder is the medical term for being transsexual or transgender.

So where does that leave this discussion? Gender dysphoria is not a condition that any psychological counseling can change. This has been verified over and over by therapists and psychologists. If it were something we wanted to do that could be helpful. But this is about WHO we are not what transsexual people do. The only way for a transsexual to reach peace within her (or his - people go both ways) is to live as the gender we feel ourselves to be. In many cases that means surgical correction. Since the mind cannot be changed to match the body then the body must be changed to match the mind.

There is an extensive series of hoops that the medical community makes trans people jump through. Those include having to live in the new gender for a year before any genital surgery.

The only morality involved is other people's choices.

Do you think that it is right to force someone to live a life of self-hatred so that others, who have no understanding, can be comfortable? Remember, the rate of suicide attempts for transsexual people is sky high. Nobody considers suicide as an option lightly. Its an act of desperation. I've been there myself.

For those who love to cherry pick from the old testament to justify their bigotry I suggest that they read further. One passage frequently cited is Deut. 22:5. "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.". But what else does that chapter say? Verse 8:8 When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof. Such parapets are not a common feature of architecture in this century. Verse 11: Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together. Much of the clothing we wear, including that from Macy's, is made from blended fabrics. Before you condemn someone for cross dressing check your closet to see if the tassels on the corners of your clothing are in good shape. Verse 12: Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear.

The penalty for a woman not being a virgin on her wedding night is to be stoned to death. Oh, and here is a doozy: Verse 28, 29: If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

(Sarcasm mode on) Oh now THAT'S wonderful, forcing a woman to marry her rapist. Yeah, that would work. (sarcasm mode off)

My whole point in this discussion is this: A TEXT OUT OF CONTEXT IS A PRETEXT! Its been my observation that when passages are taken out of context it is usually to justify a person's or her own prejudices. Its so much easier to say "the Bible says it so that's the way it is" than to think and adjust to new things.

If, and only if, you live as Jesus said in Matthew 25:31 - 46 then you can criticize that transsexual woman. What does that passage say? In part:

*** 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
***34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.***37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
***40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

If you don't do material things to feed and house the poor, assist those who are infirm, and in general live as Jesus said to then and only then are you free to criticize other's lives. That means not sitting in church singing hymns but actually getting out of the pew and doing things in the material world to help those less fortunate.
***

 

[Meister]

The amount of ignorance displayed in this discussion is flabbergasting.

My qualifications for butting in: Four decades of living as a "man", including a career in the military followed by making the transsexual change in the mid 1980's (December '87 surgery date), and living and working as a woman since March 1986.

Lets get something out of the way first. Sex, gender, and sexual orientation are three distinctly different things.

Sex is biological. XX or XY chromosomes, innie or outie, sperm or egg. Ultimately its a person's role in reproduction.

Gender is one's role in life, how one relates to others. Behavior, interests and clothing choices and much much more. In society there are things expected of men and things expected of women. Many of this is stereotype. Men, mostly, like cars. Women, in general, think of cars as a means to get from point A to B, and to look good doing it. Gender roles today are much less rigid than this suggests, and much much more flexible than in the 50's when I grew up.

To make the point as simply as possible sex: is between the legs, gender is between the ears.

Sexual orientation is distinct from either of those. Its who you are attracted to. It doesn't mean who you have sex with but who you _WANT_ to have sex with. Some people are gay but for any number of reasons choose not to be sexual with anyone. The straight person who chooses to be celibate is in exactly the same boat. A Catholic priest takes a vow of celibacy. That doesn't mean he doesn't find women attractive but that he chooses not to express his feelings physically.

In the vast majority of cases all three agree. The result is a heterosexual man or woman. Occasionally they do not agree. If physical anatomy and gender identity agree, but sexual orientation doesn't the result is a gay man or woman.

In the case of transsexuals anatomy and gender identity disagree. We _know_ we are that something is wrong. In most cases it takes a while to work out exactly what is wrong, what is the source of the deep unhappiness we feel. Everything in the world says one thing, but our hearts say something else. In my case the realization hit me like a lightning bolt at age nine. That a person's anatomy and identity differ makes no sense to people who do not have the same feelings in their hearts. Its not an easy thing to understand for people who have gender dysphoria much less for people who do not.

"Dysphoria" is the opposite of "euphoria" and is the term used for the medical condition. Gender Identity Disorder is the medical term for being transsexual or transgender.

So where does that leave this discussion? Gender dysphoria is not a condition that any psychological counseling can change. This has been verified over and over by therapists and psychologists. If it were something we wanted to do that could be helpful. But this is about WHO we are not what transsexual people do. The only way for a transsexual to reach peace within her (or his - people go both ways) is to live as the gender we feel ourselves to be. In many cases that means surgical correction. Since the mind cannot be changed to match the body then the body must be changed to match the mind.

There is an extensive series of hoops that the medical community makes trans people jump through. Those include having to live in the new gender for a year before any genital surgery.

The only morality involved is other people's choices.

Do you think that it is right to force someone to live a life of self-hatred so that others, who have no understanding, can be comfortable? Remember, the rate of suicide attempts for transsexual people is sky high. Nobody considers suicide as an option lightly. Its an act of desperation. I've been there myself.

For those who love to cherry pick from the old testament to justify their bigotry I suggest that they read further. One passage frequently cited is Deut. 22:5. "A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the LORD your God detests anyone who does this.". But what else does that chapter say? Verse 8:8 When you build a new house, make a parapet around your roof so that you may not bring the guilt of bloodshed on your house if someone falls from the roof. Such parapets are not a common feature of architecture in this century. Verse 11: Do not wear clothes of wool and linen woven together. Much of the clothing we wear, including that from Macy's, is made from blended fabrics. Before you condemn someone for cross dressing check your closet to see if the tassels on the corners of your clothing are in good shape. Verse 12: Make tassels on the four corners of the cloak you wear.

The penalty for a woman not being a virgin on her wedding night is to be stoned to death. Oh, and here is a doozy: Verse 28, 29: If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

(Sarcasm mode on) Oh now THAT'S wonderful, forcing a woman to marry her rapist. Yeah, that would work. (sarcasm mode off)

My whole point in this discussion is this: A TEXT OUT OF CONTEXT IS A PRETEXT! Its been my observation that when passages are taken out of context it is usually to make the speaker justify his or her own prejudices.

If, and only if, you live as Jesus said in Matthew 25:31 - 46 then you can criticize that transsexual woman. What does that passage say? In part:

*** 31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
***34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.***37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
***40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

If you don't do material things to feed and house the poor, assist those who are infirm, and in general live as Jesus said to then and only then are you free to criticize other's lives. That means not sitting in church singing hymms but actually getting out of the pew and doing things in the material world to help those less fortunate.
***

So...do you have XX or XY chromosomes? hmmm?
Can you bear a child?

 

[Portland_Patty]

You are right. I have XY chromosomes and always will.

And no I cannot carry a baby to term. Do you know any 65 year old natal women who can? Also, my life friend who was born female had to have a hysterectomy for medical reasons. Is she no longer a woman because she cannot bear a child? Is a woman who is not fertile for whatever reason not "really" a woman?

Now a question for you, Old School: Have you ever had a chromosome test? Do you know for a fact what chromosome configuration you carry in each cell? How about the people around you - family, co-workers, your mail man, the woman cashier at the supermarket - do they have the chromosomes that match their gender presentation? How do you know? The answer to the question about chromosomes is that XX, XY, XXY, XYY and any number of other uncommon chromosome combinations are possible and do exist in real life but other than for certain medical purposes a person's chromosomes are a non-issue in daily life.

I and other transsexual people live in the real world. What I am talking about is real people, people who have the same needs you do, have real world personalities. They (and I) need to hold a job, live indoors, eat, have friends and do all the other things people do. From the arguments presented so far it seems those taking Ms Johnson's side are talking about some ideal of gender. I am not talking theory and for that reason I dismiss the chromosome question as being irrelevant.

What you see is the gender the people you see daily present to the world.

One basic rule of life is that people do not act on what is. They act on what they perceive the situation to be. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck its a duck. If you see someone who looks like a woman, dresses like a woman, acts like a woman and has typical woman's interests she is woman. She deserves to be treated with the same dignity and courtesy as any other person