"Love Your Enemy." "Turn The Other Cheek." What Did J.C. Mean?

[Gunny]

He fought when he wipped the maoney changers.

He did not fight when he knew message would suffer.

He stood for what he believed and it was more important than even his own life to him.

That is standing on priciple.

Care is right because people could not forget his message of peace when he refused to fight because it was the only way to truely protect what he believed.

Peace my brothers and sisters.

So is facing an enemy who cannot be reasoned/negotiated with whose sole intent is to destroy what is good for his hate-filled beliefs standing on principle.

There are those who need to be protected, those who prey on them, and those who protect them from the predators so that even if the protector dies, the ideals he stands for live on.

 

[Semper Fi]

"Love Your Enemy." "Turn The Other Cheek." What Did Jesus Mean?

Dear Folks/Forum Members:

The title of this thread basically says it all.

I would like to ask all of you folks what you think Jesus meant, or intended by those radical statements.

These statements flew in the face, of man's/woman's way of handling or dealing with a part of life that can or could be a big issue at times.
********
Jesus was a radical in my opinion. I think that His statements would have been met with a lot of head scratching by a majority of mankind, even now.

Now, being a radical, I don't mean a radical in a negative sense, but radical in His stance or statement in lieu of past or prevailing beliefs.
****
Again, I did post this to stimulate some discussion about this "radical" man's statements.

Please, can we keep this discussion around His statements I mentioned, and not digress into, those people of the past or even present that claim or allege to be Christians and have done someone, large groups, or even nation's of people wrong, unethical, inhumane, acts.

I'm not trying to avoid those past inhumane acts, but want to "key" in on Jesus's specific statements and what it meant, and what you think.
*******
Please share your insights into those "radical" statements that Jesus made nearly 2,000 years ago.
******

I didn't read the whole thread, so I'm not sure if this perspective has been shared yet or not. Please inform me if it has.

The way I view most Christian ideals are as defying what is tempting or easy. It is easy to commit adultery, yet the Bible prohibits doing so. It is easy to steal, yet the Bible prohibits doing so. It is easy to not turn the other cheek, yet the Bible mandates that it be done.

The inverse is also true. The Bible mandates you do things that are hard and contrary to what human nature compels us to do. Sticking to more of the subject-at-hand, rarely do people love their enemies (I define Biblical love as valuing another's life or welfare above your own, Jesus loved his people more than himself, and valued their lives above his. The keyword here is Love.) Naturally, your enemy is quite literally the last person you would ever consider loving, but the Bible mandates that it be done.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Respectfull folks: Can we try to concentrate on the intent of the thread, and thats to have discussion about the merits of what Jesus said in this topic?

I don't want to this to digress into, "Was Jesus real" or areas that don't pertain to the actual statements that are before us to digest, understand, and comment on.

Was Jesus if He was real, just a man, God, or a fictional story character, right in these statements towards mankind? That's where I'd like the direction to to and not into the merits of a religion or the alleged contradictions of the O.T. or N.T. take on God.

If we are going to philosophise about fairies-at-the-bottom-of-the-garden, then the question should be; “Why did this fictitious Syrian Riddler purposely pitch such imponderable Pesher posers at the imperceptive Palestinian peasantry, if he wasn’t trying to protect some privileged esoteric wisdom?

What hope did these poor recently Neanderthal nomads have of undoing The Gordian Knot of what Jewsarse "meant" when the finest non-minds in contemporary Christendom still argue over what the **** their blessed rabbit's-foot was on about?

If this pig phobic, poor man's Palestinian Mithra was merely trying to pass on the means for the simple-minded subsistence farmers, their day labourers, and the assorted slothful shit-kickers, spivs, pimps, and prostitutes that he is supposed to have loved to “save” themselves, as simplistic Christians claim, then why didn’t he couch his convoluted missives in language that the lowest I.Q in his audience could comprehend, instead of conceitedly posing conundrums for the theosophic sages of the social elite?

Obviously this bullshitting, big-headed, Bedouin version of P.T. Barnum was a social climbing little creep who could give a withered fig about the smelly masses and their final reward.

The supposed Jesus’ supposedly simplified New Testament has bought about nothing but division, discord, dissension, and death ever since patrician Paul and his Greco-Romanised Hebrew Proddie hanger-on’s penned their cerebral Paulsy as the perfect system to pacify and control the understandably rebellious peasantry once and for all.

 

[Gunny]

If we are going to philosophise about fairies-at-the-bottom-of-the-garden, then the question should be; “Why did this fictitious Syrian Riddler purposely pitch such imponderable Pesher posers at the imperceptive Palestinian peasantry, if he wasn’t trying to protect some privileged esoteric wisdom?

What hope did these poor recently Neanderthal nomads have of undoing The Gordian Knot of what Jewsarse "meant" when the finest non-minds in contemporary Christendom still argue over what the **** their blessed rabbit's-foot was on about?

If this pig phobic, poor man's Palestinian Mithra was merely trying to pass on the means for the simple-minded subsistence farmers, their day labourers, and the assorted slothful shit-kickers, spivs, pimps, and prostitutes that he is supposed to have loved to “save” themselves, as simplistic Christians claim, then why didn’t he couch his convoluted missives in language that the lowest I.Q in his audience could comprehend, instead of conceitedly posing conundrums for the theosophic sages of the social elite?

Obviously this bullshitting, big-headed, Bedouin version of P.T. Barnum was a social climbing little creep who could give a withered fig about the smelly masses and their final reward.

The supposed Jesus’ supposedly simplified New Testament has bought about nothing but division, discord, dissension, and death ever since patrician Paul and his Greco-Romanised Hebrew Proddie hanger-on’s penned their cerebral Paulsy as the perfect system to pacify and control the understandably rebellious peasantry once and for all.

Word has it YOU are the "fairy" at the bottom of the garden.

 

[dilloduck]

Maybe he was encouraging any one who would listen that the spirit can be just as if not more important than mans' physical self. One of his primary points in much of his teaching was that he was not speaking of "this" world and perhaps he was trying to get people to explore something larger than the mundane existence they were focused on. He was using a parable as a means to get people to concentrate on the spirituality in a world stuck in the darkness of empty and repetitive existence.
He may have known that if he could get people to change their priorities than a whole new "reality" would open to them.

 

[Eightball]

Also keep in mind that in the Hebrew language there was three basic "love" definitions, and context in the bibleverses when used.

There was Phileo - love - Which basically meant having a "delight" in something or someone.

There was Eros - love - Which was of a sexual, or erotic nature or type of love for another.

There was Agape - love - Which was not an emotional based, but an "action" of "commitment of one's self to another at the expense of one's own desires, or to the extreme, of one's own life, security, or safety.

The love that Christ displayed on the Cross was of the Agape category. As was previously mentioned, it was giving preference over another...i.e. an enemy (the world/mankind) and loving that enemy.

Now "Agape" love seems very impossible in human terms, especially when we look at Christ's expression of it in His life, especially at Golgotha (The Skull/Calvary), or the place of His crucifixion.

The interesting thing about this "Agape" love was that Jesus didn't say that it was reserved for us humans to exhibit in heaven after leaving earth in death. He/Christ as well as His devoted Apostles over and over again in their many letters in the N.T. stressed that Agape love was the glue of the Christian life, and community, and also the mark of a true Christian, and the means at which the non-Christian world would be drawn to Christ through exposure to this community called, "Christ ones" or Christians.

This may seem like a very simplistic, and ordinary example of little import to many, but many years ago when we lived in the Pacific Northwest, while I was attending bible college, we lived in a little urban neighborhood in Vancouver, Wa.. We were experiencing a pretty powerful Winter Pacific rain storm with blustery winds and heavy rains on a particular day. I had just come home from my attendance at college over the border in Portland, Oregon, and was driving into my driveway, and noticed that the extreme gusty winds had blown most of the garbage cans all over the street and far down the street from each neighbor's house. It had been garbage pickup day that morning.

Anyway, it was pouring down rain, and I got out of my car and chased-down my garbage can and put it in a safe wind resistant place. I don't know why, but I thought, all my neighbors are going to come home and will not find their garbage cans by early evening, or will be running all over the place trying to find them, who knows where.

So eightballsidepocket decided, well, I'm home, I'll just spend some time chasing down my neighbor's garbage cans, and placing them in safe places at each house.

It took awhile, but I got it done, and went in the house and didn't think more of it. I didn't pat myself on the back, or anything. I just wanted to be helpful to my neighbors. I didn't care if anyone knew I did it or not.

Anyway, my immediate neighbor at the time had been searching along with his wife for a system of belief in God, and had numerous visits from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. They had many visits and much of the doctrines of these religions was discussed with my neighbors.

Well, my little garbage can chase had not gone unnoticed by those neighbors. I never knew that both the husband and wife saw me do it and return their garbage can to their house.

Some time after that episode, I had an opportunity to meet my neighbor as we were both out mowing our respective lawns, and kind-of met at the property boundary lines of our lawns and stopped and introduced ourselves. My neighbor asked about me, and I told him about my attendance in bible college and interest in Christian ministry. I had no idea this neighbor and his wife were searching for God, or had a deep longing for faith in God. As it turned out, my neighbor really opened up to me about his desires in his life and even the Mormon and JW's visits they had been having in their search. I and my wife invited them over for a "get to know you" BBQ at our home next door, and from there we just talked a lot about religion, faith, the bible, raising kids, and all kinds of stuff of life.

There came a time when these folks literally asked my wife and I to help them become Christians. As it turned out, the two of them literally bowed their heads at our dinner table one night and gave their lives to Christ in such sincerety as I was asked to lead them in prayer.

My neighbor later said to me what was the catalyst of this whole thing that led up to them seeing Christianity in it's purest biblical form as the Truth or Way in their lives. It was that day when their "crazy" neighbor was chasing down all the neighbor's garbage cans, instead of getting out of the cold soaking rain, like any normal person in the neighborhood would have.
*******
That act on my part was of little sacrifice. Yet Agape love is not a feeling or emotion, but an act of doing onto another without expecting reciprocation back. It's acting according to your nature or the life that God has placed in your soul when you became a bonafide Christian. That life came in as a result of responding to, "grace" or unmerited love and favor, as all of us humans are without merit earning us favor with God. Not the goodie two shoes or the arch criminal. We have all fallen short of God's glory, and life, and we know it, or we are in sickly denial.

Agape love is big and little things. It's making dinner for your wife when she's sick, or changing a bed pan of an invalid, when you'd rather be somewhere else. It's playing catch with your son, when you'd rather watch Monday night football and have a Budweiser instead.

Agape love isn't doing something you don't want to do, but is doing something you know in your conscience is the thing to do, but might not agree with your emotions or feelings. The power of sin is ever present in the world and it works on Christians overtime, and is the yoke of the unknowing non-Christian 24 hours a day.

So as we all know, Jesus loves the World........That's obvious as we've all seen the John 3:16 signs at ball games and probably have heard it quoted numerous times. The world as a general rule isn't very loveable in our human perspective, yet Christ a fully human man, and God incarnate, loved the unloveable of society as well as those that didn't think they needed fixing ( Actually they were the sickest in their soul). It's that forgiving life of unmerited favor towards the unmerited..i.e. grace that is in every true Christian. Now whether or not every true Christian wants to exercise that life of Christ in them, which is also called the Holy Spirit, the Counselor, is up to the will of that individual Christian. The will can be referred to in simplistic terms as one's "chooser". I kind of like those simplistic terms. It does make it easier for me to make application of certain things in my life.

Anyway, 3:16 basically said that even our enemys are loved by God. How can this be? Well, God made our enemy as well as us. Our enemy was made in His image, yet is our threatening protagonist, or maybe a threat in some other way, or has been one who has hurt us verbally, or financially.

Jesus didn't say that we are to lay down our lives at the expense of defending our family with His call to love your enemy. Loving your enemy may involve praying for your nemesis, yet still having to defend your safety and those that depend on your umbrella of safety from that nemesis. To the world that does not have the Spirit of Christ, it is as foreign as oil mixing with water.

I've actually forgiven individuals who have hurt me in different ways, when I had done nothing to deserve the rejection or attack. I've been amazed at how the angst or hatred that I had inside me dissipated when I continued to force myself to pray for someone who had been downright mean to me. I can't explain the mechanics of the anger and revenge leaving, but it had to be Christ's life in me taking the "throne" position over good old eightball being the master and captain of what was right for his Christian life.

I've prayed about giving up possessions that were burdensome to afford, yet I had this strong attraction and need for them, and had to literally pray, and ask God to take the possession from me or make me willing to give it up. He has never failed to change my inner man or heart at some later point after praying those prayers, where I could sell or get rid of some prized possession without the slightest remorse or longing. It literally has blown me away!

Agape love is supernatural, and it is possible to exercise it in one's life on planet earth. It is only possible when one is willingly possessed by God in Christ's life to experience this, when one is at a point of realizing and actively giving one's life and "all" to God and Christ as Lord of one's life.
********

The true Christian life isn't an easy road. It's a hard road, but it's also one that the true Christian never would regret taking.

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Also keep in mind that in the Hebrew language there was three basic "love" definitions, and context in the bibleverses when used.

There was Phileo - love - Which basically meant having a "delight" in something or someone.

There was Eros - love - Which was of a sexual, or erotic nature or type of love for another.

There was Agape - love - Which was not an emotional based, but an "action" of "commitment of one's self to another at the expense of one's own desires, or to the extreme, of one's own life, security, or safety.

The love that Christ displayed on the Cross was of the Agape category. As was previously mentioned, it was giving preference over another...i.e. an enemy (the world/mankind) and loving that enemy.

Now "Agape" love seems very impossible in human terms, especially when we look at Christ's expression of it in His life, especially at Golgotha (The Skull/Calvary), or the place of His crucifixion.

The interesting thing about this "Agape" love was that Jesus didn't say that it was reserved for us humans to exhibit in heaven after leaving earth in death. He/Christ as well as His devoted Apostles over and over again in their many letters in the N.T. stressed that Agape love was the glue of the Christian life, and community, and also the mark of a true Christian, and the means at which the non-Christian world would be drawn to Christ through exposure to this community called, "Christ ones" or Christians.

This may seem like a very simplistic, and ordinary example of little import to many, but many years ago when we lived in the Pacific Northwest, while I was attending bible college, we lived in a little urban neighborhood in Vancouver, Wa.. We were experiencing a pretty powerful Winter Pacific rain storm with blustery winds and heavy rains on a particular day. I had just come home from my attendance at college over the border in Portland, Oregon, and was driving into my driveway, and noticed that the extreme gusty winds had blown most of the garbage cans all over the street and far down the street from each neighbor's house. It had been garbage pickup day that morning.

Anyway, it was pouring down rain, and I got out of my car and chased-down my garbage can and put it in a safe wind resistant place. I don't know why, but I thought, all my neighbors are going to come home and will not find their garbage cans by early evening, or will be running all over the place trying to find them, who knows where.

So eightballsidepocket decided, well, I'm home, I'll just spend some time chasing down my neighbor's garbage cans, and placing them in safe places at each house.

It took awhile, but I got it done, and went in the house and didn't think more of it. I didn't pat myself on the back, or anything. I just wanted to be helpful to my neighbors. I didn't care if anyone knew I did it or not.

Anyway, my immediate neighbor at the time had been searching along with his wife for a system of belief in God, and had numerous visits from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. They had many visits and much of the doctrines of these religions was discussed with my neighbors.

Well, my little garbage can chase had not gone unnoticed by those neighbors. I never knew that both the husband and wife saw me do it and return their garbage can to their house.

Some time after that episode, I had an opportunity to meet my neighbor as we were both out mowing our respective lawns, and kind-of met at the property boundary lines of our lawns and stopped and introduced ourselves. My neighbor asked about me, and I told him about my attendance in bible college and interest in Christian ministry. I had no idea this neighbor and his wife were searching for God, or had a deep longing for faith in God. As it turned out, my neighbor really opened up to me about his desires in his life and even the Mormon and JW's visits they had been having in their search. I and my wife invited them over for a "get to know you" BBQ at our home next door, and from there we just talked a lot about religion, faith, the bible, raising kids, and all kinds of stuff of life.

There came a time when these folks literally asked my wife and I to help them become Christians. As it turned out, the two of them literally bowed their heads at our dinner table one night and gave their lives to Christ in such sincerety as I was asked to lead them in prayer.

My neighbor later said to me what was the catalyst of this whole thing that led up to them seeing Christianity in it's purest biblical form as the Truth or Way in their lives. It was that day when their "crazy" neighbor was chasing down all the neighbor's garbage cans, instead of getting out of the cold soaking rain, like any normal person in the neighborhood would have.
*******
That act on my part was of little sacrifice. Yet Agape love is not a feeling or emotion, but an act of doing onto another without expecting reciprocation back. It's acting according to your nature or the life that God has placed in your soul when you became a bonafide Christian. That life came in as a result of responding to, "grace" or unmerited love and favor, as all of us humans are without merit earning us favor with God. Not the goodie two shoes or the arch criminal. We have all fallen short of God's glory, and life, and we know it, or we are in sickly denial.

Agape love is big and little things. It's making dinner for your wife when she's sick, or changing a bed pan of an invalid, when you'd rather be somewhere else. It's playing catch with your son, when you'd rather watch Monday night football and have a Budweiser instead.

Agape love isn't doing something you don't want to do, but is doing something you know in your conscience is the thing to do, but might not agree with your emotions or feelings. The power of sin is ever present in the world and it works on Christians overtime, and is the yoke of the unknowing non-Christian 24 hours a day.

So as we all know, Jesus loves the World........That's obvious as we've all seen the John 3:16 signs at ball games and probably have heard it quoted numerous times. The world as a general rule isn't very loveable in our human perspective, yet Christ a fully human man, and God incarnate, loved the unloveable of society as well as those that didn't think they needed fixing ( Actually they were the sickest in their soul). It's that forgiving life of unmerited favor towards the unmerited..i.e. grace that is in every true Christian. Now whether or not every true Christian wants to exercise that life of Christ in them, which is also called the Holy Spirit, the Counselor, is up to the will of that individual Christian. The will can be referred to in simplistic terms as one's "chooser". I kind of like those simplistic terms. It does make it easier for me to make application of certain things in my life.

Anyway, 3:16 basically said that even our enemys are loved by God. How can this be? Well, God made our enemy as well as us. Our enemy was made in His image, yet is our threatening protagonist, or maybe a threat in some other way, or has been one who has hurt us verbally, or financially.

Jesus didn't say that we are to lay down our lives at the expense of defending our family with His call to love your enemy. Loving your enemy may involve praying for your nemesis, yet still having to defend your safety and those that depend on your umbrella of safety from that nemesis. To the world that does not have the Spirit of Christ, it is as foreign as oil mixing with water.

I've actually forgiven individuals who have hurt me in different ways, when I had done nothing to deserve the rejection or attack. I've been amazed at how the angst or hatred that I had inside me dissipated when I continued to force myself to pray for someone who had been downright mean to me. I can't explain the mechanics of the anger and revenge leaving, but it had to be Christ's life in me taking the "throne" position over good old eightball being the master and captain of what was right for his Christian life.

I've prayed about giving up possessions that were burdensome to afford, yet I had this strong attraction and need for them, and had to literally pray, and ask God to take the possession from me or make me willing to give it up. He has never failed to change my inner man or heart at some later point after praying those prayers, where I could sell or get rid of some prized possession without the slightest remorse or longing. It literally has blown me away!

Agape love is supernatural, and it is possible to exercise it in one's life on planet earth. It is only possible to be in possessed by God in Christ's life to experience this, when one is at a point of realizing and actively giving one's life and "all" to God and Christ as Lord of one's life.
********

The true Christian life isn't an easy road. It's a hard road, but it's also one that the true Christian never would regret taking.

Also keep in mind that in the Hebrew language there was three basic "love" definitions, and context in the bibleverses when used.

You are talking about the GREEK language, you Goose!

 

[Chips Rafferty]

Also keep in mind that in the Hebrew language there was three basic "love" definitions, and context in the bibleverses when used.

There was Phileo - love - Which basically meant having a "delight" in something or someone.

There was Eros - love - Which was of a sexual, or erotic nature or type of love for another.

There was Agape - love - Which was not an emotional based, but an "action" of "commitment of one's self to another at the expense of one's own desires, or to the extreme, of one's own life, security, or safety.

The love that Christ displayed on the Cross was of the Agape category. As was previously mentioned, it was giving preference over another...i.e. an enemy (the world/mankind) and loving that enemy.

Now "Agape" love seems very impossible in human terms, especially when we look at Christ's expression of it in His life, especially at Golgotha (The Skull/Calvary), or the place of His crucifixion.

The interesting thing about this "Agape" love was that Jesus didn't say that it was reserved for us humans to exhibit in heaven after leaving earth in death. He/Christ as well as His devoted Apostles over and over again in their many letters in the N.T. stressed that Agape love was the glue of the Christian life, and community, and also the mark of a true Christian, and the means at which the non-Christian world would be drawn to Christ through exposure to this community called, "Christ ones" or Christians.

This may seem like a very simplistic, and ordinary example of little import to many, but many years ago when we lived in the Pacific Northwest, while I was attending bible college, we lived in a little urban neighborhood in Vancouver, Wa.. We were experiencing a pretty powerful Winter Pacific rain storm with blustery winds and heavy rains on a particular day. I had just come home from my attendance at college over the border in Portland, Oregon, and was driving into my driveway, and noticed that the extreme gusty winds had blown most of the garbage cans all over the street and far down the street from each neighbor's house. It had been garbage pickup day that morning.

Anyway, it was pouring down rain, and I got out of my car and chased-down my garbage can and put it in a safe wind resistant place. I don't know why, but I thought, all my neighbors are going to come home and will not find their garbage cans by early evening, or will be running all over the place trying to find them, who knows where.

So eightballsidepocket decided, well, I'm home, I'll just spend some time chasing down my neighbor's garbage cans, and placing them in safe places at each house.

It took awhile, but I got it done, and went in the house and didn't think more of it. I didn't pat myself on the back, or anything. I just wanted to be helpful to my neighbors. I didn't care if anyone knew I did it or not.

Anyway, my immediate neighbor at the time had been searching along with his wife for a system of belief in God, and had numerous visits from Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. They had many visits and much of the doctrines of these religions was discussed with my neighbors.

Well, my little garbage can chase had not gone unnoticed by those neighbors. I never knew that both the husband and wife saw me do it and return their garbage can to their house.

Some time after that episode, I had an opportunity to meet my neighbor as we were both out mowing our respective lawns, and kind-of met at the property boundary lines of our lawns and stopped and introduced ourselves. My neighbor asked about me, and I told him about my attendance in bible college and interest in Christian ministry. I had no idea this neighbor and his wife were searching for God, or had a deep longing for faith in God. As it turned out, my neighbor really opened up to me about his desires in his life and even the Mormon and JW's visits they had been having in their search. I and my wife invited them over for a "get to know you" BBQ at our home next door, and from there we just talked a lot about religion, faith, the bible, raising kids, and all kinds of stuff of life.

There came a time when these folks literally asked my wife and I to help them become Christians. As it turned out, the two of them literally bowed their heads at our dinner table one night and gave their lives to Christ in such sincerety as I was asked to lead them in prayer.

My neighbor later said to me what was the catalyst of this whole thing that led up to them seeing Christianity in it's purest biblical form as the Truth or Way in their lives. It was that day when their "crazy" neighbor was chasing down all the neighbor's garbage cans, instead of getting out of the cold soaking rain, like any normal person in the neighborhood would have.
*******
That act on my part was of little sacrifice. Yet Agape love is not a feeling or emotion, but an act of doing onto another without expecting reciprocation back. It's acting according to your nature or the life that God has placed in your soul when you became a bonafide Christian. That life came in as a result of responding to, "grace" or unmerited love and favor, as all of us humans are without merit earning us favor with God. Not the goodie two shoes or the arch criminal. We have all fallen short of God's glory, and life, and we know it, or we are in sickly denial.

Agape love is big and little things. It's making dinner for your wife when she's sick, or changing a bed pan of an invalid, when you'd rather be somewhere else. It's playing catch with your son, when you'd rather watch Monday night football and have a Budweiser instead.

Agape love isn't doing something you don't want to do, but is doing something you know in your conscience is the thing to do, but might not agree with your emotions or feelings. The power of sin is ever present in the world and it works on Christians overtime, and is the yoke of the unknowing non-Christian 24 hours a day.

So as we all know, Jesus loves the World........That's obvious as we've all seen the John 3:16 signs at ball games and probably have heard it quoted numerous times. The world as a general rule isn't very loveable in our human perspective, yet Christ a fully human man, and God incarnate, loved the unloveable of society as well as those that didn't think they needed fixing ( Actually they were the sickest in their soul). It's that forgiving life of unmerited favor towards the unmerited..i.e. grace that is in every true Christian. Now whether or not every true Christian wants to exercise that life of Christ in them, which is also called the Holy Spirit, the Counselor, is up to the will of that individual Christian. The will can be referred to in simplistic terms as one's "chooser". I kind of like those simplistic terms. It does make it easier for me to make application of certain things in my life.

Anyway, 3:16 basically said that even our enemys are loved by God. How can this be? Well, God made our enemy as well as us. Our enemy was made in His image, yet is our threatening protagonist, or maybe a threat in some other way, or has been one who has hurt us verbally, or financially.

Jesus didn't say that we are to lay down our lives at the expense of defending our family with His call to love your enemy. Loving your enemy may involve praying for your nemesis, yet still having to defend your safety and those that depend on your umbrella of safety from that nemesis. To the world that does not have the Spirit of Christ, it is as foreign as oil mixing with water.

I've actually forgiven individuals who have hurt me in different ways, when I had done nothing to deserve the rejection or attack. I've been amazed at how the angst or hatred that I had inside me dissipated when I continued to force myself to pray for someone who had been downright mean to me. I can't explain the mechanics of the anger and revenge leaving, but it had to be Christ's life in me taking the "throne" position over good old eightball being the master and captain of what was right for his Christian life.

I've prayed about giving up possessions that were burdensome to afford, yet I had this strong attraction and need for them, and had to literally pray, and ask God to take the possession from me or make me willing to give it up. He has never failed to change my inner man or heart at some later point after praying those prayers, where I could sell or get rid of some prized possession without the slightest remorse or longing. It literally has blown me away!

Agape love is supernatural, and it is possible to exercise it in one's life on planet earth. It is only possible when one is willingly possessed by God in Christ's life to experience this, when one is at a point of realizing and actively giving one's life and "all" to God and Christ as Lord of one's life.
********

The true Christian life isn't an easy road. It's a hard road, but it's also one that the true Christian never would regret taking.

Okay Dateballs, we get the picture. You are such a loving and sickeningly decent little Ned Flanders.

As for Jesus’ boundless love, what's the big deal about purportedly dying to redeem mankind from their inherited sin, when you/your Dad/both laid the trap that caused it?

Jesus KNEW the lights were only going out for a little while then he would resume his judgemental duties on the heavenly “High Jump” - as we crims call it.

Conversely, how many prejudged and condemned atheists - according to you gut-churningly grovelling, Paul worshipping, Proddie God felchers - who were convinced this was their one life, gladly laid down their lives for a friend?

Love is most definitely NOT leaving lollies (candy) lying around, telling the kids not to touch them, burning them to death – forever - when they do, then expecting the grandkids to crawl up your arse for forgiveness for their parents sins!

Anyone who thinks it is, is as loveless as their imaginary God.

 

[ErikViking]

"Love Your Enemy." "Turn The Other Cheek." What Did Jesus Mean?

I belive it to be a message of love. It is to be taken litterally.

Love Your Enemy.
Why not? Your enemy is just another of His children, perhaps gone stray. More the pity. Love him, he doesn't know what he is doing. Salvation lies just ahead. For both.

Turn The Other Cheek.
Why not? What possible desire would God have for you to hurt one of His children? None. It is bad enough you got hurt.

I think it is as simple as that, that is what He ment.

 

[Eightball]

Erik:

Turn The Other Cheek.
Why not? What possible desire would God have for you to hurt one of His children? None. It is bad enough you got hurt.

From your post, I can see that you have an understanding that anwering a "wrong" with another "wrong", doesn't ever end a dispute or bring about peace or reconciliation.

If there is any possible chance for peace in a situation, someone or someone involved must take a first, brave step, involving a contrite/humble attitude.

 

[MassageGirl]

It means that if someone hurts you, you should not take revenge. I think hes trying to say that revenge is bad news. Many people do this forgiveness thing even today. A person might lie to you, and you will sooner or later just get over it, just to be lied to again. Jesus wasnt telling people to not defend themselves, just dont take revenge on people for their wrongdoings. This is with the assumption that the people who are following his teachings are following all of them, and not just picking and choosing. Because of this, it is also assumed that the person is spreading the gospel about Jesus as well. I think the hope involved is that the person will find the straight and narrow path, and stop the sin.
A believer in Jesus and Biblical teachings is not someone that is well trusted by the majority of people. The reason why, is because people choose to think that the person is out to get them in trouble for whatever they are doing wrong. Thats not the case. At least, it shouldnt be. Instead, if the person is doing something wrong, the believer should just keep telling him or her the Gospel of Jesus, about the Good News and all that stuff.

The objective is to help people find faith, and become better people, not screw everyone over. You dont win anyones trust by screwing over thy neighbors wife, lol...

 

[ErikViking]

Erik:



From your post, I can see that you have an understanding that anwering a "wrong" with another "wrong", doesn't ever end a dispute or bring about peace or reconciliation.

If there is any possible chance for peace in a situation, someone or someone involved must take a first, brave step, involving a contrite/humble attitude.

I don't know exactly. But I think that was was Jesus ment. The love described between us and God in the Bible is very much like the love from a parent to children. From Gods perspective it is logical. You don't want your children to hurt each other. And "hurt" it is, since death is not the end.

Humans tend to defend and take stand on those levels:
My family
Me
The society

Where society today can be a multifacetted thing. A certain group, national belonging, cultural roots or sports.

It seems hard to think of all you as my children. And I wonder... doesn't parental love come with a responsabilty to form your children? If so, should I also try to correct you, my siblings whom I should love as a father.

I actually think the message is confusing when I try to adapt it as a whole on myself.

 

[jodylee]

his views would have been radical in the jewish world he lived in, but these views can be found in older religions like buddisum. Some even say jesus was a buddist in the lost years, but this is just an idea.

 

[Shogun]

I think that Jesus wanted the population of that era to ascend beyond the savage humanity that dictated behavioural norms of the time. For me, his message was all about love, forgiveness and redemption of the human spirit which may have been a direct reaction to living in times when human interaction and culture were peaking out from behind the iron age and was particularly beastial. So, in essence, I believe that he really did want his followers to turn the other cheak and appeal to the humanity of the enemy. If humans are all his creation then violent human interaction might be like a fight between siblings where he would know, ultimatly, that there is something deeper going on than what we fight over in the physical world. Now, I don't believe in such things but I can agree with the philosophy behind it. Beyond the bad examples of some christians I'd like to think that Jesus was the total avatar of benevolent intentions and would have been interested in a peaceful humanity regardless of individual uniform. Hence, the good sumaritan. I think he did want one to turn the other cheak and to forgive. Kinda like the idea to Pay It Forward for his ancient times.


I wonder if his message for humanity then, as we understand it from the bible, would differ from his message for humanity now, as there is certainly an ascention in culture and human interaction now from then.

 

[Vintij]

I think that Jesus wanted the population of that era to ascend beyond the savage humanity that dictated behavioural norms of the time. For me, his message was all about love, forgiveness and redemption of the human spirit which may have been a direct reaction to living in times when human interaction and culture were peaking out from behind the iron age and was particularly beastial. So, in essence, I believe that he really did want his followers to turn the other cheak and appeal to the humanity of the enemy. If humans are all his creation then violent human interaction might be like a fight between siblings where he would know, ultimatly, that there is something deeper going on than what we fight over in the physical world. Now, I don't believe in such things but I can agree with the philosophy behind it. Beyond the bad examples of some christians I'd like to think that Jesus was the total avatar of benevolent intentions and would have been interested in a peaceful humanity regardless of individual uniform. Hence, the good sumaritan. I think he did want one to turn the other cheak and to forgive. Kinda like the idea to Pay It Forward for his ancient times.


I wonder if his message for humanity then, as we understand it from the bible, would differ from his message for humanity now, as there is certainly an ascention in culture and human interaction now from then.

I think the message would be the same, other than the industrial revolution and a better understanding of the universe, we are exactly the same as before. With more money, and deadlier weapons. There were scrolls before the scrolls, prophets before the prophet, beliefs before the belief in jesus and the judeo christian god, and there are scrolls after the scrolls, prohpets after the prophet and beliefs after jesus and christianity. Same boat different ocean.

 

[Shogun]

Indeed, and I am not one to insist that christianity is the end all, be all of dogma, but I wonder if the motivation behind the message might be different even if the message is the same. I believe his goal was benevolent interaction between humanity but what is the purpose? Would that purpose have been above the heads of those listeneing at that ancient time which made it necessary to wrap his message around similar colorful stories found in culture at the time? I guess the idea of heaven is a direct result of the harsh reality of the human condition and sin was the guidlines to remold an ascended humanity but I wonder, now that we've become who we are instead of remaining Roman, if he would use another motivation that we could grasp in accordance with our modern comprehension. I always thought that, for all we know, he is trying to evolve himself some company much like Dave and Hal at the end of Arthur Clarks 2001 books. Thus, his message may remain the same while the reason for this little diety game called life gets a contemporary upgrade.

 

[glockmail]

"Love Your Enemy." "Turn The Other Cheek." What Did Jesus Mean?....

God gave us two cheeks, so show your tormentor no animus, but if he slaps you again, you have complete authority to kick his ass.

 

[midcan5]

I once wrote a play in which I used Jesus as the reason we are all situational ethicists. Consider 'turn the other cheek' and 'let them without sin...' So obviously he was that first sissy liberal. A regular John Edwards in Ann Coulter's world.

 

[jillian]

his views would have been radical in the jewish world he lived in, but these views can be found in older religions like buddisum. Some even say jesus was a buddist in the lost years, but this is just an idea.

older religions like Buddhism? I'm not sure what you mean. Do you mean older than Christianity? Or older than Judaism?

Because it seems that Judaism was around for about 3,500 years before Buddhism.

http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/buddhaintro.html

I apologize for not following. I do agree with you that Jesus was a radical, but it was more for his railing against corruption within the jewish leadership and their failing to abide by what he considered the important aspects of Judaism... like not allowing the Temple to be corrupted by the money-lenders.

For what it's worth, there are a lot of parallels between Buddhism and Kabbalah. And it may well be that Jesus was the greatest Jewish mystic to ever have lived.

 

[Kid Pickle]

"Love your neighbor as you love yourself" refers back to Deuteronomy 19:18 "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD." The apostle Paul comments on this in Romans 12:19+20, saying "Do no take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' (Deut. 32:35a) says the Lord. On the contrary: 'If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.' (Prov. 25:21+22)"

So, in order to follow God's commandments, we must act in a loving manner to others, treating them as we would like to be treated, considering them above ourselves and their needs above our own needs. As God loves all people, righteous as well as unrighteous, so should those who call themselves God's children. When we treat angry, hateful people with love, we bring guilt upon them with their own conscience, giving God some leverage to get them to consider their sin and come to repentance.

Human nature tells us to love only those who love us or whom we can get something from and to hate those who harm us. Jesus says to love first and always, regardless. In Matt. 38+39 he says, "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.' But I tell you , Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek turn to him the other also." This and the following is saying that if you are persecuted and/or attacked that one should not take the law into one's own hands. A child of God is to extend justice and mercy to their enemies in the hope that the matter will be resolved as the body and possessions are nothing compared to matters of the heart. The appeal should be to higher authorities if the matter cannot be resolved.