Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom FROM Religion Foundation Complaint

[Auld Phart]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

Bullshit! Freedom from religion is the other side of the same coin. The LPD is a governmental organization as, such has no business in promoting religion of any kind. It is imposing religion on people who may believe differently or not believe at all. That undermines and flies in the face of the concept of freedom of religion because if YOUR religion is imposed on me....I do not have my own freedom of religion. You people seem to think that your freedom is more valuable than the freedom of others who believe differently.

Unless they compel you to attend, they're not imposing anything on you.

More bullshit!

Case in point. I want to attend a city council meeting to address an issue of concern to me. In order to do so I have to be subjected to a Christian prayer that alienates me and makes me uncomfortable. That is an imposition on me.

Another scenario….School prayer. Some students are not Christian and some are atheists . They cannot choose to not be there

Laws are often influenced by religion. Lets take Sunday blue laws which were prevalent in the past and are still on the books in places. If I want to shop on Sunday and can't, that is an imposition of religion on me. Maybe my Sabbath is Saturday and I only have time to Shop on the Weekend. I am screwed.

Then there are the issues of birth control, and same sex marriage. Prohibitions on those practices have been largely driven by the Christian religion, buy have impacted everyone, regardless of their beliefs.

Get the point?

Yup


you're scared shitless of an invisible entity you don't believe in.

You believe that words can hurt you.

(I only worry about sticks and stones)

I believe that you are the one who is scared shitless of an invisible entity . Why don't you try to address the actual real life issues that I presented?

Bud, other than weddings, I haven't been in a church for 55 years.

you feel alienated by a prayer being said at a meeting?

Get up, stomp out noisily, and return when the prayer is over.

Or put your earbuds in, and play your music loud enough to drown it out.

Let them KNOW how you feel.

School prayer?

they allow Christians to pray in school now?

I thought only Muslims were allowed that privilege.


Blue laws?

Haven't seen them enacted for years, (actually decades)

If I remember correctly, Congress got rid of them.


Still, the only thing I'm seeing from you, is a major case of butthurt, because you can't get your way because you fear an invisible entity

 

[Auld Phart]

Why not?

Senate and House both open the session with a prayer.

Have, for the most part, since about 1789

Why not? First, the separation of church and state must be observed strictly.

Secondly, these prayers are sectarian, preferring one religion and one denomination over another. Sectarianism is a deep problem within just about every one of the world's religions. Government should have no part in this. Even within the faith of Christianity, there are deep divisions. There always have been. Look how splintered people who are Christians are.

There are people right here on USMB who say that people who do not agree with their sect don't believe in a Supreme Being, are "atheist," (which there is nothing wrong with being in the U.S.), or who say that they don't believe in another person's idea of a Supreme Being are terrible, evil people. There was one guy just this morning who said that people who support Democratic candidates have abandoned "God." This is total horseshit; sectarian slop.

Why not? First, the separation of church and state must be observed strictly.

Please point out the section of the Constitution that has Separation of Church and State in it.

Give us a break with that horseshit question. We all know that those words are not in the Constitution. But we also know what the Constitution actually says and what it has been held to mean. The government may not establish a state religion or promote the interests on one religion over another AND may not place the interests of religion over secular law. Period.!

Here are 5 founding fathers whose skepticism about Christianity would make them unelectable today

We all know that those words are not in the Constitution

good,

now, tell your friends that believe they are that they are wrong.

But we also know what the Constitution actually says

Yes we do...

what it has been held to mean.

not really.

too many stopped reading, and started believing all religion must be banished.

The FF would be VERY upset about that.

More hyperbolic bullshit! No body is saying that religion should be banned. That is a dishonest and desperate effort to advance a theocratic agenda and undermine the first amendment with fear.

undermine the first amendment

that's what your buds are doing with this freedom FROM religion crap

 

[easyt65]

That's right. And it includes my free exercise as well as yours. Your religion cannot prohibit me from my right to free exercise, including my right to NOT BE SUBJECTED to the tenants of your religion that conflicts with my beliefs or lack there of, as per the real life examples that I gave above, that you people can't actually deal with.

When a group of people agree to pray at the start of a meeting the STATE us not doing that, the STATE is not forcing you to participate, and if you are offended / don't want to be there you are FREE to leave.

The minority does not dictate their (radical) demands on the majority.

 

[caddo kid]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

This is good news IMO.
The SPD is a public funded law enforcement entity, just like 99.999999% of all LE departments are public funded.
'Freedom of religion' is also freedom from religion, IMO.
Freedom of religion is a choice. That choice can be freely acted upon in settings that do NOT require public tax payer dollar$.
It is not the place of government period to support ANY religious activities with public dollars, when participants are utilizing public facilities or property, or when on the clock.
Shreveport Police Department made the right call IMO.

It's good to see my home town make progress; any progress. The city is nothing but a YUGE ghetto but progress, even if small, is still progress.
At least the police department is no longer full of KKK, and not run by a murderer that used to hang out with Mafia types.

The Shreveport Police Department seems to have gone from 'rouge' to 'God' but IMO both influences are the extreme.

It is no good to have a PSC that believes he owns the city, that believes he can fill the ranks of the SPD with KKK, extort money, threaten anyone & everyone, engage in assassinations, and that believes he can befriend the most powerful Mafia boss in America. Well, that is what we had in Shreveport in the 1960s & the 1970s. I resided in Shreveport from 1961 to 1987. I go back mostly for funerals now days.
Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Badge of Dishonor
"I could not put the book down until I finished it. As a Shreveporter and employee of the Caddo Parish Sheriff's Office I had a front row seat to many of the events described. Jere has accurately described the events and characters that form this story. It brought back a lot of memories. It is a good read and and a good description of the prevailing attitudes of unquestioning racism as well as the corruption that were so prevalent at the time."

Going from really bad to excessively religious, that is also no place for any police department to be.

ALL police departments need to be void of corruption but they also need to be void of religion, IMO.

 

[Auld Phart]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

This is good news IMO.
The SPD is a public funded law enforcement entity, just like 99.999999% of all LE departments are public funded.
'Freedom of religion' is also freedom from religion, IMO.
Freedom of religion is a choice. That choice can be freely acted upon in settings that do NOT require public tax payer dollar$.
It is not the place of government period to support ANY religious activities with public dollars, when participants are utilizing public facilities or property, or when on the clock.
Shreveport Police Department made the right call IMO.

It's good to see my home town make progress; any progress. The city is nothing but a YUGE ghetto but progress, even if small, is still progress.
At least the police department is no longer full of KKK, and not run by a murderer that used to hang out with Mafia types.

The Shreveport Police Department seems to have gone from 'rouge' to 'God' but IMO both influences are the extreme.

It is no good to have a PSC that believes he owns the city, that believes he can fill the ranks of the SPD with KKK, extort money, threaten anyone & everyone, engage in assassinations, and that believes he can befriend the most powerful Mafia boss in America. Well, that is what we had in Shreveport in the 1960s & the 1970s. I resided in Shreveport from 1961 to 1987. I go back mostly for funerals now days.
Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Badge of Dishonor

Going from really bad to excessively religious, that is also no place for any police department to be.

ALL police departments need to be void of corruption but they also need to be void of religion, IMO.

but they also need to be void of religion,

why?

 

[pinqy]

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion...."

Hey deceitful snowflake, why us it that you do not want to post the ENTIRE thing?


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Bwuhahaha

FREE Exercise. A requirement, or any kind of pressure on the part of the government, Federal or state (via the 14th amendment) is not free exercise.


The 'establishment of religion' clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertain- [330 U.S. 1, 16] ing or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between Church and State.' Reynolds v. United States, supra, 98 U.S. at page 164.
Everson v Board of Education Ewing Township (1947) 330 US 1

 

[caddo kid]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

This is good news IMO.
The SPD is a public funded law enforcement entity, just like 99.999999% of all LE departments are public funded.
'Freedom of religion' is also freedom from religion, IMO.
Freedom of religion is a choice. That choice can be freely acted upon in settings that do NOT require public tax payer dollar$.
It is not the place of government period to support ANY religious activities with public dollars, when participants are utilizing public facilities or property, or when on the clock.
Shreveport Police Department made the right call IMO.

It's good to see my home town make progress; any progress. The city is nothing but a YUGE ghetto but progress, even if small, is still progress.
At least the police department is no longer full of KKK, and not run by a murderer that used to hang out with Mafia types.

The Shreveport Police Department seems to have gone from 'rouge' to 'God' but IMO both influences are the extreme.

It is no good to have a PSC that believes he owns the city, that believes he can fill the ranks of the SPD with KKK, extort money, threaten anyone & everyone, engage in assassinations, and that believes he can befriend the most powerful Mafia boss in America. Well, that is what we had in Shreveport in the 1960s & the 1970s. I resided in Shreveport from 1961 to 1987. I go back mostly for funerals now days.
Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Badge of Dishonor

Going from really bad to excessively religious, that is also no place for any police department to be.

ALL police departments need to be void of corruption but they also need to be void of religion, IMO.

but they also need to be void of religion,

why?

I don't believe in tax payer dollar$ supporting corruption, nor religion.

In the case of the SPD, tax payer dollars should go toward fighting crime & bringing criminals to justice; not supporting crime by the police & not supporting religion on the job by police.

 

[WheelieAddict]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

Good. Religion should never be law. We should remain a democratic republic.

 

[Lysistrata]

Bullshit! Freedom from religion is the other side of the same coin. The LPD is a governmental organization as, such has no business in promoting religion of any kind. It is imposing religion on people who may believe differently or not believe at all. That undermines and flies in the face of the concept of freedom of religion because if YOUR religion is imposed on me....I do not have my own freedom of religion. You people seem to think that your freedom is more valuable than the freedom of others who believe differently.

Unless they compel you to attend, they're not imposing anything on you.

More bullshit!

Case in point. I want to attend a city council meeting to address an issue of concern to me. In order to do so I have to be subjected to a Christian prayer that alienates me and makes me uncomfortable. That is an imposition on me.

Another scenario….School prayer. Some students are not Christian and some are atheists . They cannot choose to not be there

Laws are often influenced by religion. Lets take Sunday blue laws which were prevalent in the past and are still on the books in places. If I want to shop on Sunday and can't, that is an imposition of religion on me. Maybe my Sabbath is Saturday and I only have time to Shop on the Weekend. I am screwed.

Then there are the issues of birth control, and same sex marriage. Prohibitions on those practices have been largely driven by the Christian religion, buy have impacted everyone, regardless of their beliefs.

Get the point?

Yup


you're scared shitless of an invisible entity you don't believe in.

You believe that words can hurt you.

(I only worry about sticks and stones)

I believe that you are the one who is scared shitless of an invisible entity . Why don't you try to address the actual real life issues that I presented?

Bud, other than weddings, I haven't been in a church for 55 years.

you feel alienated by a prayer being said at a meeting?

Get up, stomp out noisily, and return when the prayer is over.

Or put your earbuds in, and play your music loud enough to drown it out.

Let them KNOW how you feel.

School prayer?

they allow Christians to pray in school now?

I thought only Muslims were allowed that privilege.


Blue laws?

Haven't seen them enacted for years, (actually decades)

If I remember correctly, Congress got rid of them.


Still, the only thing I'm seeing from you, is a major case of butthurt, because you can't get your way because you fear an invisible entity

Why don't these people who want to pray a certain way as to their actions at some meeting get together and say their prayers BEFORE the meeting? The problem is making sectarian prayers part of the agenda for the meeting of a public body.

There is nothing stopping anyone from holding a prayer session consistent with their common faith before the meeting starts if members of this group feel that it is necessary. There is no need to interrupt the meeting's business agenda for it. Pray in somebody's office or the corridor before. Prayers are sectarian. The act of prayer is open to everyone. What is wrong with saying to everyone "go do your thing" and we will get together afterward to discuss our common goals during the meeting"?

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

Should it depend on the religion? If they were Islamic prayer vigils, would you be down with that?

I think we know the answer to that one

 

[easyt65]

Should it depend on the religion? If they were Islamic prayer vigils, would you be down with that?

I have no problem with peaceful prayer vigils...by anyone. Again, anyone not comfortable with it don't have to participate or show up and can leave if offended.

I spent 30 years defending EVERYONE'S rights, not just SOME people's.

 

[Auld Phart]

Unless they compel you to attend, they're not imposing anything on you.

More bullshit!

Case in point. I want to attend a city council meeting to address an issue of concern to me. In order to do so I have to be subjected to a Christian prayer that alienates me and makes me uncomfortable. That is an imposition on me.

Another scenario….School prayer. Some students are not Christian and some are atheists . They cannot choose to not be there

Laws are often influenced by religion. Lets take Sunday blue laws which were prevalent in the past and are still on the books in places. If I want to shop on Sunday and can't, that is an imposition of religion on me. Maybe my Sabbath is Saturday and I only have time to Shop on the Weekend. I am screwed.

Then there are the issues of birth control, and same sex marriage. Prohibitions on those practices have been largely driven by the Christian religion, buy have impacted everyone, regardless of their beliefs.

Get the point?

Yup


you're scared shitless of an invisible entity you don't believe in.

You believe that words can hurt you.

(I only worry about sticks and stones)

I believe that you are the one who is scared shitless of an invisible entity . Why don't you try to address the actual real life issues that I presented?

Bud, other than weddings, I haven't been in a church for 55 years.

you feel alienated by a prayer being said at a meeting?

Get up, stomp out noisily, and return when the prayer is over.

Or put your earbuds in, and play your music loud enough to drown it out.

Let them KNOW how you feel.

School prayer?

they allow Christians to pray in school now?

I thought only Muslims were allowed that privilege.


Blue laws?

Haven't seen them enacted for years, (actually decades)

If I remember correctly, Congress got rid of them.


Still, the only thing I'm seeing from you, is a major case of butthurt, because you can't get your way because you fear an invisible entity

Why don't these people who want to pray a certain way as to their actions at some meeting get together and say their prayers BEFORE the meeting? The problem is making sectarian prayers part of the agenda for the meeting of a public body.

There is nothing stopping anyone from holding a prayer session consistent with their common faith before the meeting starts if members of this group feel that it is necessary. There is no need to interrupt the meeting's business agenda for it. Pray in somebody's office or the corridor before. Prayers are sectarian. The act of prayer is open to everyone. What is wrong with saying to everyone "go do your thing" and we will get together afterward to discuss our common goals during the meeting"?

Why don't you figure out what ' prohibiting the free exercise thereof;' means?

 

[SweetSue92]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

This is good news IMO.
The SPD is a public funded law enforcement entity, just like 99.999999% of all LE departments are public funded.
'Freedom of religion' is also freedom from religion, IMO.
Freedom of religion is a choice. That choice can be freely acted upon in settings that do NOT require public tax payer dollar$.
It is not the place of government period to support ANY religious activities with public dollars, when participants are utilizing public facilities or property, or when on the clock.
Shreveport Police Department made the right call IMO.

It's good to see my home town make progress; any progress. The city is nothing but a YUGE ghetto but progress, even if small, is still progress.
At least the police department is no longer full of KKK, and not run by a murderer that used to hang out with Mafia types.

Oh let's take that to the Supreme Court now....shall we?

 

[SweetSue92]

The United States Constitution Provides the Constitutional Right of Freedom OF Religion, not Freedom FROM Religion.

Shame on the LaPD for caving in to these anti-American Losers.


Attending the Prayer Vigil is much like a specific TV show on a channel on your TV:
-- If a TV show on your TV offends you, CHANGE THE DAMN CHANNEL!
-- If the thought of a prayer vigil offends you, DON'T GO!




Louisiana Police Department Stops Its Prayer Vigils Over Freedom From Religion Foundation Complaint


.

They even want the PD to stop having Chaplains.

What a bunch of assholes.

The city attorney was quoted in the linked article as saying that "doing away with the chaplaincy program would alienate those within the police department who are Christian." Why would this be so? Does the department provide chaplains to everyone, or just Christians of a certain denomination?

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway. The are plenty of community and religious organizations to organize such things as prayer vigils.

Remember that one cannot use the term "religion" with any accuracy because it is an extremely generic term. When people talk about "religion" they must specify which religion and which denomination or group within that religion to which they are referring.

A government agency should not be involved in religion, anyway.

Why not?

Senate and House both open the session with a prayer.

Have, for the most part, since about 1789

Why not? First, the separation of church and state must be observed strictly.

Secondly, these prayers are sectarian, preferring one religion and one denomination over another. Sectarianism is a deep problem within just about every one of the world's religions. Government should have no part in this. Even within the faith of Christianity, there are deep divisions. There always have been. Look how splintered people who are Christians are.

There are people right here on USMB who say that people who do not agree with their sect don't believe in a Supreme Being, are "atheist," (which there is nothing wrong with being in the U.S.), or who say that they don't believe in another person's idea of a Supreme Being are terrible, evil people. There was one guy just this morning who said that people who support Democratic candidates have abandoned "God." This is total horseshit; sectarian slop.

Quote where the Constitution says "separation of Church and State".

 

[SweetSue92]

"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion...."

Hey deceitful snowflake, why us it that you do not want to post the ENTIRE thing?


"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Bwuhahaha

That's right. And it includes my free exercise as well as yours. Your religion cannot prohibit me from my right to free exercise, including my right to NOT BE SUBJECTED to the tenants of your religion that conflicts with my beliefs or lack there of, as per the real life examples that I gave above, that you people can't actually deal with.

You have no right "not to be subjected". The Constitution only guarantees there will be no State religion. It does not promise to strip religion from all public life.

Wow, the utter ignorance is astounding.

 

[strollingbones]

perhaps you christians should look to your own bible and what it says about praying....pray not for the glory of man but go into your closet....matthew something something....

 

[strollingbones]

Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

but lets ignore what the bible says

 

[Auld Phart]

Matthew 6:6 But when you pray, go into your inner room, shut your door, and pray to your Father, who is unseen. And your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

but lets ignore what the bible says

Lets also ignore the Sermon on the Mount, and other instances of Jesus teaching the multitudes to pray in public.

 

[strollingbones]

o i admit the bible is a ration of conflicted sayings......but you cannot ignore matthew

 

[strollingbones]

Contradictions: Should Christians Pray in Public or Not?

you may pray anytime anywhere .....you dont have to inflict those prayers on others...now do you?